Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:06, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Metropolis of Muntenia and Dobrudja to :Category:Metropolis of Muntenia and Dobruja

:Nominator's rationale: Per parent article Metropolis of Muntenia and Dobruja. Super Ψ Dro 14:36, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:C2D, this could have been listed as a speedy nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:23, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:07, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:21st century in Santiago, Cape Verde to :Category:History of Santiago, Cape Verde

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:47, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. — Mugtheboss (talk) 10:06, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:History of Santo Antão, Cape Verde to :Category:Santo Antão, Cape Verde

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

::{{Ping|Marcocapelle}} Something wrong here, both categories are the same. Did you mean the history category? CMD (talk) 14:17, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

::: That is correct, thanks for notifying. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:19, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Ethiopian Catholic Church, :Category:Church buildings of the Catholic Church in Ethiopia and :Category:Eastern Catholic church buildings in Africa. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:23, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Ethiopian Catholic churches to :Category:Eastern Catholic church buildings in Ethiopia

:Nominator's rationale: To avoid confusion between the Eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic church buildings. See below. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:48, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Merge to relevant parent categories since this category contains only the below category. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
• Merge per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Eritrean Catholic Church, :Category:Eastern Catholic church buildings, :Category:Churches in Eritrea and :Category:Eastern Catholic church buildings in Africa. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:28, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Eritrean Catholic church buildings to :Category:Eastern Catholic church buildings in Eritrea

:Nominator's rationale: Per standard of other countries. There is a difference between "Eritrean Catholics who are Eastern Catholics" and "Roman Catholics who are Eritrean nationals". Note: I originally created this category. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:09, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Merge to parent categories Since this contains only the above. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
• Merge per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:32, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:29, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Zubtsovsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Zapadnodvinsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Vyshnevolotsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Spirovsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Sonkovo District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Penovsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Nelidovsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Molokovsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Maksatikhinsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Lesnoy District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Krasnokholmsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Kalyazinsky District to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Belsky District, Tver Oblast to :Category:People from Tver Oblast

:Nominator's rationale: only 1 or 2 articles in each. Rathfelder (talk) 08:59, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support all per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:46, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for Category:People from Zubtsovsky District (50 articles on ru wiki), Category:People from Spirovsky District (11 on ru), Category:People from Sonkovo District (16 on ru), Category:People from Maksatikhinsky District (20 on ru), Category:People from Lesnoy District (6 on ru), Category:People from Krasnokholmsky District (25 on ru), Category:People from Kalyazinsky District (65 on ru), Category:People from Belsky District, Tver Oblast (39 on ru wiki), Support for the rest. Furius (talk) 17:21, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• See more elaborate discussion elsewhere. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:43, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Support all per nom. Oculi (talk) 12:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
• Merge all that are still small when this discussion closes. The two weeks this discussion is open is sufficient time for any population to occur. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:30, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Tyulgansky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Totsky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Saraktashsky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Orenburgsky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Novosergiyevsky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Novoorsky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Mednogorsk to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Kurmanayevsky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Grachyovsky District, Orenburg Oblast to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Gai, Orenburg Oblast to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Buzuluksky District to :Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

:Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each Rathfelder (talk) 09:14, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support all per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:20, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for Totsky (15 articles in ru.wiki), Saraktashsky District (19 on ru), Support for the rest. Furius (talk) 17:13, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• See more elaborate discussion elsewhere. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:43, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Support all per nom. Oculi (talk) 12:25, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
• Merge all that are still small when this discussion closes. The two weeks this discussion is open is sufficient time for any population to occur. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: reverse merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:43, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Dams in Hokkaido to :Category:Dams in Hokkaido Prefecture

:Nominator's rationale: I think Hokkaido and Hokkaido Prefecture are one and the same, so perhaps these categories should be merged? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:45, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Reverse merge, other Hokkaido categories do no contain "Prefecture" in the name. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• :But in the dams categories, every other prefecture contains the word "Prefecture"! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

::* That is not relevant here. In every category, all prefectures but Hokkaido contain the word "Prefecture", so this is perfectly consistent. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment -- I suspect that in other cases, prefectures take their names from cities, so that prefecture is needed as a disambiguator, but not here. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Comment: Apparently, the "do" in "Hokkaido" already means "prefecture", so "Hokkaido prefecture" is redundent (Hokkaido#etymology). Whether that actually ought to hold in English, I don't know... Furius (talk) 17:10, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• :Hokkai Prefecture anyone?! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:39, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

::* A category rename like that should only be done after article Hokkaido is renamed to Hokkai Prefecture, but I do not seriously expect that to happen. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

::*:I was joking! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:50, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

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::@Qwerfjkl: can you just close this? I think we have a consensus, thanks — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:51, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

:::@MSGJ, sure. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:43, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 11:10, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|People of United Empire Loyalist descent}}

:Nominator's rationale: I can't imagine how this would be defining. ★Trekker (talk) 13:43, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete, not defining indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:00, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep but limit scope. The United Empire Loyalists were people who were expelled from United States, because they remained loyal to the British Crown and were allowed to settle in Upper Canada. As the primary settlers in the area, I would expect that the status was very significant, particularly before the amalgamation to create Canada in 1867. I suspect that today, nearly 250 years later, it is not significant. Accordingly, the category should mainly be applied to those active before 1900 (or some other date). Perhaps the third or fourth generation would be sufficient. Beyond that people have so many ancestors, often with different ethnicities, that the category is no longer useful. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:33, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

:* I would rather argue that only :Category:United Empire Loyalists is significant and they already have their own category. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:05, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Keep per Peter. — Mugtheboss (talk) 11:47, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
• How is this defining for 99% of the people categorized and why can't the :Category:United Empire Loyalists category cover it?★Trekker (talk) 12:09, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• Delete Clearly :Category:United Empire Loyalists is defining. Sometimes emigrants become defining because they turn into a clear minority ethnicity. I don't see any of that here though - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:35, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:34, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Television by country by century to :Category:Television by country and century

:* Propose renaming :Category:Politics by country by century to :Category:Politics by country and century

:* Propose renaming :Category:Novels by country by century to :Category:Novels by country and century

:Nominator's rationale: Per standard of {{cl|Categories by country and century}}. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:28, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support - true. Ditto the ones below (which could be bundled). Oculi (talk) 10:20, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. "By Foo by Bar" emphasises more clearly that the order of the terms has significance. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

:*Comment If that is what you believe, then why have you not introduced nominations for all in "Categories by country and century" that do not conform (the majority BTW)? Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:37, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

:*:Because there are billions of things on en.wp that need to be fixed, and I don't have the time or energy to fix them all. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:41, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

:*:*BHG created :Category:Categories by country and century, :Category:Establishments by millennium and continent and :Category:Churches by country and century, to name but 3. Oculi (talk) 15:26, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

:*:*:@Oculi: I have created many categories with less-than-ideal names to fill redlinks in Special:WantedCategories. In some other cases I used the "by and" format for consistency with a closely-related category: e.g. is there is already "Foo by A and B", I create the sibling "Foo by B and A".

:*:*:But my view has always been that "by A by B" is much clearer. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:09, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support, established naming convention. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:08, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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• I agree with BHG that "…by…by" is more intuitively understood; I remember that it took me a long time to remember which way round "…by…and" works. However, it is true that "…by…and" is more widely established as a pattern on Wikipedia. In this nomination, I would not object to Politics and Novels being renamed to match the majority pattern, but keep the Television category unless it is nominated with all of its hierarchy, because it is part of an extensive set using "…by…by" as follows. Only :Category:Television by country and year slipped through as a Speedy in 2020; I am therefore proposing that this be returned to its original name. – Fayenatic London 12:22, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

:;Option B

:* Propose renaming :Category:Television by country and year to :Category:Television by country by year

{{Television by time category navigation}}

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• Comment - it is easy to remember that 'by A and B' means 'by A [and] by B'. In any case there are a vast number of other schemes that are 'by A and B' (eg {{cl|People by nationality and occupation}} and many of its subcats}) and so introducing exceptions is a very bad idea. So oppose Option B. Oculi (talk) 12:12, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:39, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Human activities with impact on the environment to :Category:Human impact on the environment

:Nominator's rationale: This is a procedural nomination. The "human activities" category was created in 2009 as "Category:Environmental issues with population", and moved to its current name after Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 November 10#Human activities with impact on the environment. At that CFD, merger was suggested at a late stage and did not gain consensus. Yesterday at the Speedy page, Geysirhead suggested merger on the grounds that there is no separate article for the "human activities" category. However, various editors have considered that there is a distinction in the topics, sufficient for there to be two categories not only here but also at Commons and on Chinese wikipedia (and recently by user:Hilal knight on Azerbaijani wikipedia, with less content so far). If merger is approved, then I suggest that the nominated page be moved over the target page, which was created later (by DASonnenfeld in 2013). – Fayenatic London 09:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose (but possibly just delete and/or listify), the content of this category is not about the environment, or about impact on the environment. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:14, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
• :Delete is also an option. Geysirhead (talk) 13:35, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Astronomical works of Al-Andalus to :Category:Scientific works of Al-Andalus and :Category:Astronomical works of the medieval Islamic world

:* Propose merging :Category:Medical works of Al-Andalus to :Category:Scientific works of Al-Andalus and and :Category:Medical works of the medieval Islamic world

:* Propose merging :Category:Astronomical works of the Abbasid Caliphate to :Category:Scientific works of the Abbasid Caliphate and :Category:Astronomical works of the medieval Islamic world

:* Propose merging :Category:Mathematical works of the Abbasid Caliphate to :Category:Scientific works of the Abbasid Caliphate and :Category:Mathematical works of the medieval Islamic world

:* Propose merging :Category:Medical works of the Abbasid Caliphate to :Category:Scientific works of the Abbasid Caliphate and :Category:Medical works of the medieval Islamic world

:* Propose deleting :Category:Astronomy in Al-Andalus

:* Propose deleting :Category:Mathematics in Al-Andalus

:* Propose deleting :Category:Medicine in Al-Andalus

:* Propose deleting :Category:Astronomy in the Abbasid Caliphate

:* Propose deleting :Category:Mathematics in the Abbasid Caliphate

:* Propose deleting :Category:Medicine in the Abbasid Caliphate

:Nominator's rationale: merge, quite narrow intersection and only a few articles in these categories. After this merge the container categories become entirely redundant. As a whole, it is an unnecessarily complicated tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support. These categories hold only two to four articles each, and the linked categories on Arabic or Spanish Wikipedias have the same or fewer, indicating that there is not much prospect of expansion. – Fayenatic London 10:11, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

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