Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 19

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:38, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Fictional women aviators}}

:Nominator's rationale: Another CensoredScribe sock category, populated by CS socks. I do not believe this cross-categorization to be defining or particularly commented on by RS's. Half the list are not "aviators" per se but fly spaceships. It's simply something they do, rather than something they are generally known explicitly for. -- ferret (talk) 23:36, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

::Note, category was being moved repeatedly during this CfD, it is now at {{lc|Fictional female aviators}}, which was the original name. -- ferret (talk)

• Delete. Not well used currently, questionable cross-categorization to begin with. SnowFire (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete WP:G5
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:39, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|YouTube sponsors}}

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining trait. That a company advertises and sponsors content creators on YouTube is irrelevant and not covered by reliable secondary sources. -- ferret (talk) 16:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete More per WP:PERFCAT. Where does Verizon (mobile network) not advertise? - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:48, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Types of administrative division templates. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Country subdivision templates by subdivision type to :Category:Types of administrative division templates

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parallel to :Category:Types of administrative division.

:This a compound neologism by banned User:Tobias Conradi, who used 150+ sockpuppets over 5+ years to spam this all over wikipedia, one of the worst cases ever seen. One of the sockpuppets was User:Country subdivision. Before coming here, he'd been banned at the German wikipedia. These were all supposed to be fixed (and many articles were simply deleted), but sadly others linger a decade later. It is so easy to mass create categories, and so much harder to fix them.

• Followup to:
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 10#Category:Country subdivision templates

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:58, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Speedy There's already been a clear consensus for this name recently in CFD. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:41, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Alumni of the Special military school of Saint-Cyr to :Category:École Spéciale Militaire de Saint-Cyr alumni

:Nominator's rationale: empty duplicate category Robby (talk) 15:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:08, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Empty category. Next time, consider tagging it CSD C1. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:45, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Officers of the Legion of Honour. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:42, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Officers of the Legion of Honour to :Category:Officiers of the Légion d'honneur

:Nominator's rationale: empty duplicate category Robby (talk) 14:58 19. April 2023 (UTC)

• Comment The category is empty so there is nothing to merge. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:41, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
• {{ping|Marcocapelle|RevelationDirect}} participants in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 13#Category:Commanders of the Legion of Honour.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:42, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
• Reverse rename WP:C2C and WP:C2D — retain history, consistent with previous result, with parent {{lc|Recipients of the Legion of Honour}}, and with main article {{la|Legion of Honour}}. (tagged)
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
• Reverse rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:43, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Liberal Moderate politicians}}

:Nominator's rationale: A category of this nature including many BLPs is quite controversial because:

:a) The liberal party don't have formal factions, therefore names are arbitrarily added to the category, in many cases, using WP:OR.

:b) Many MPs that are already listed in the category don't have any evidence of being 'Liberal moderate Politicians'
––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 14:40, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support deleting This category is obvious nonsense, there's no such thing as a "Liberal Moderate" lol...just joking...however, this does illustrate my point: these positions are completely subjective, some people think the Greens are to the left of Lenin, most people have a more reasonable view, some think the LNP are to the right of Hitler, but most people take a more reasonable view...it's all subjective opinion - these factions should only be included if there is widespread usage in the media, or formal factions like Labor has. Otherwise its just one editors OR and opinion. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 01:32, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support delete per nomination and Tambor de Tocino. --Bduke (talk) 04:18, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Comment (leaning to retain). Whether a faction is formalised in any particular manner is not relevant to whether it exists, and therefore to whether it is a significant topic deserving of either a WP article or a WP category. The factions in the LNP are more fluid than those in the ALP (see eg. van Onselen's 2011 essay in the Monthly), but there are real groupings, recognised by both participants and observers, and able to be researched and documented, as they are by Massola but also by others (eg Hawker's 2005 paper in Australian Quarterly). I do not understand the claim regarding OR - the National Right article has an OR template on it, but most of the content is cited. The fact that Massola himself did original research, is not relevant to whether the WP article is OR - it is not, even if it needs improvement. Our concern as editors I think is whether there is a body of knowledge attributable to reliable sources that has sufficient significance to be written about in WP and, in relation to the category, whether there are reliable sources that link a group of articles to a category in a consistent way. I don't doubt that some of the MPs placed in this (or a sister) category don't see themselves in that way, or do not use the label - but our test is whether reliable sources do so, and whether it is meaningful information. I would suggest that they do, and it is. hamiltonstone (talk) 13:11, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete: the category makes membership sound much more fixed and definite than it really is, whereas in the few cases where we have a source, it is a single journalist's assessment, and not a self-identification. StAnselm (talk) 15:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete WP:V WP:RS WP:OR WP:CIRCULAR — the only source for this term seems to be en.wikipedia. The purported main article {{la|Moderates (Liberal Party of Australia)}} is disputed, and doesn't match this name.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:20, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:43, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Liberal Centre-Right politicians}}

:Nominator's rationale: A category of this nature including many BLPs is quite controversial because:

:a) The liberal party don't have formal factions, therefore names are arbitrarily added to the category, in many cases, using WP:OR.

:b) Many MPs that are already listed in the category don't have any evidence of being 'Liberal Centre-Right Politicians'
––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 14:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• If kept it should be renamed to {{cl|Centre Right (Liberal Party of Australia) politicians}} per the article Centre Right (Liberal Party of Australia). Oculi (talk) 21:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• :Hi, just a comment: The Centre Right (Liberal Party of Australia) article is a pretty dubious article, it should probably be deleted, it's based largely on OR. The coalition has no formal factions and the rest is subjective speculation.
• :Tambor de Tocino (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support delete I'm a keen observer of Australian politics, and I've never heard a term resembling anything like a "Liberal National Right politician" or "Liberal Centre-Right politicians" used in mainstream reportage. The coalition has no formal factions, not like Labor's Socialist Left/Labor Left, Unity/Labor Right Factions. This is all original research. We'd need to see these terms used regularly in mainstream press for them to be included here. I'm not sure why the categories were ever created (Joke: I mean the entire LNP is far-right as far as I'm concerned :P) Tambor de Tocino (talk) 01:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support delete per Tambor de Tocino. --Bduke (talk) 04:21, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete: the category makes membership sound much more fixed and definite than it really is, whereas in the few cases where we have a source, it is a single journalist's assessment, and not a self-identification. StAnselm (talk) 15:15, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete WP:V WP:RS WP:OR WP:CIRCULAR — the only source for this term seems to be en.wikipedia. The purported main article {{la|Centre Right (Liberal Party of Australia)}} is disputed, and doesn't match this name.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Fictional traceurs and freerunners}}

:Nominator's rationale: Generally non-defining trait. Originally created by a CensoredScribe sock, and mostly populated by subsequent socks. There are some characters were this is a bit of a trait, such as Faith Connors which was a game essentially focused on parkour, but for most of these it's unsourced and not mentioned at all in their articles. -- ferret (talk) 14:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, non-defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete WP:G5
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:15, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Fictional left-handed character}}

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining trait, and most entries have been unsourced. Category created by and populated by CensoredScribe sockpuppets. -- ferret (talk) 14:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, non-defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:05, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete WP:G5
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:15, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete - Only Ned Flanders and Link (The Legend of Zelda) (somewhat) are notable for being left handed, it would be a WP:SMALLCAT. (Oinkers42) (talk) 23:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Wadi Jib}}

:Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a topic without the volume of spinoff content needed to warrant an eponymous category. As always, everything that exists does not always get its own eponymous category just to contain itself -- but the only thing filed here is the eponym. Bearcat (talk) 12:25, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete - this is a speedy: WP:C2F. Oculi (talk) 13:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per Oculi, this could have been listed at WP:CFDS. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:07, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Category has been emptied. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:55, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:22, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Ex-Jews to :Category:Former Jews

:Nominator's rationale: Was created during the course of Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_8#Category:Converts_from_Judaism as a parent of the category that was nominated. There was some controversy about what to do with this category, but the title is inconsistent with its siblings in :Category:People by former religion. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:54, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Speedy rename per WP:C2C (:Category:People by former religion). –Aidan721 (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Just delete, former Orthodox Jews are not former Jews, at least not by default. And we do not need a parent category for just :Category:Converts from Judaism. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:16, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Strong Delete — Humanistic, Reconstructionist, and Reform Jews are neither "ex-" nor "former" Jews (at least among my family and friends), merely they reject Orthodox practices.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:01, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Speedy rename per WP:C2C (:Category:People by former religion). Once renamed, we should further refine it. As I noted in the other CfR, we still need to figure out a way to say that "Former Jews" means "former believers in the religion of Judaism" (Apostasy in Judaism), as opposed to Jews who have culturally/socially/etc. assimilated and are no longer "Jewish" in that sense (Jewish assimilation). (Despite what some people might say, the latter is a thing.) I had proposed "Apostates from Judaism" per WP:C2D main article Apostasy in Judaism, which is not as ambiguous as "former Jews" / "ex-Jews", but "apostate" is sometimes used as a pejorative term and was therefore opposed by one user. I'm open to many alternatives, but it should be a next step after the speedy rename. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• :We've tried to get rid of :Category:People by former religion in the past, as it has always been full of disputed material. Please don't take us down the road of apostasy. Have you forgotten that Conservative and Reform and other Jews cannot marry in Israel? Most of the Jewish diaspora is viewed as apostate by hasidic and orthodox.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
• ::I certainly don't approve of "apostate" as a swearword / pejorative. How pious or freethinking one can be surely should be an individual person's business. But I think :Category:People by former religion should exist, and one subcategory of that should be people who are former believers of Judaism. We just gotta make sure that's a different group from people who no longer associate with "Jewishness" in any other sense anymore either (which surely should be an individual person's business as well). If you know of a good way of distinguishing these two groups, I'm all ears. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 04:08, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete, as :Category:Converts from Judaism (a far better category name imo) is the only category that properly fits within this one, and it's a redundant term. – bradv 03:26, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per the above. - re-cat :Category:Former Orthodox Jews to the parent :Category:People by former religion. The other subcat is already in :Category:Religious converts. - jc37 16:15, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
• Delete. Not needed. It shall duplicate :Category:Converts from Judaism for most of the time. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 14:44, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete all as nominated. – Fayenatic London 17:55, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Disestablishments in Dutch Formosa by year

:* Propose deleting :Category:Disestablishments in Dutch India by year

:* Propose deleting :Category:Disestablishments in Dutch Mauritius by year

:* Propose merging :Category:1620s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1620s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1624 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1624 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1624 disestablishments in Dutch Formosa to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in Dutch Formosa and :Category:1624 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1640s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1640s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1648 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1648 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1650s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1650s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1654 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1654 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1660s disestablishments in Dutch Formosa to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in Dutch Formosa and :Category:1660s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1662 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1662 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1662 disestablishments in Dutch Formosa to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in Dutch Formosa and :Category:1662 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1664 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:17th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1664 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1674 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1670s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1674 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1678 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1670s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1678 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1710s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1710s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1710s disestablishments in Dutch Mauritius to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in Dutch Mauritius and :Category:1710s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1710 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1710 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1710 disestablishments in Dutch Mauritius to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in Dutch Mauritius and :Category:1710 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1720s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1720s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1724 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1724 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1760s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1760s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1760 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:18th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1760 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1800s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:19th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1800s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1804 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:19th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1804 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1806 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:19th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1806 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1820s disestablishments in Dutch India to :Category:1820s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire

:* Propose merging :Category:1825 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1820s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1825 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1825 disestablishments in Dutch India to :Category:19th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1825 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1870s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:19th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1870s disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1872 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:19th-century disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1872 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1920 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1920 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1921 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1921 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1922 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1922 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1924 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1924 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1925 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1925 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1926 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1926 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1928 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1928 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1928 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1920s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1920 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1930 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1930 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1931 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1931 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1931 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1931 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1933 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1933 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1934 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1934 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1936 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1936 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1936 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1936 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1937 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1937 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1937 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1937 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1938 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1930s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1938 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1940 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1940 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1940 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1940 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1941 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1941 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1941 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1941 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1944 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1944 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1945 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1945 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1946 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1946 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1946 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1946 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1947 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1947 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1947 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1947 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1949 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1949 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1949 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1940s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1949 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Netherlands Antilles to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:20th-century disestablishments in the Netherlands Antilles

:* Propose merging :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:20th-century disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies

:* Propose merging :Category:1952 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1952 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1952 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies and :Category:1952 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1954 disestablishments in the Dutch Empire to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1952 disestablishments

:* Propose merging :Category:1954 disestablishments in the Netherlands Antilles to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1954 disestablishments and :Category:20th-century disestablishments in the Netherlands Antilles

:* Propose merging :Category:1958 disestablishments in the Netherlands Antilles to :Category:1950s disestablishments in the Dutch Empire and :Category:1958 disestablishments and :Category:20th-century disestablishments in the Netherlands Antilles

:Nominator's rationale: After closing a recent CfD about a related category tree, it turns out that all of the year-level categories in :Category:Disestablishments in the Dutch Empire are WP:SMALLCAT, except for :Category:1942 disestablishments in the Dutch East Indies. Some of the more recent ones can be merged into a decade category or the corresponding territory, but some of those categories would themselves be too small if the year categories are merged. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:47, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Weak oppose (I sympathize with the nomination but...) years, year establishments and year disestablishments are always created in tandem as far as I am aware of. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:27, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

::{{ping|Marcocapelle}} Hmm, it seems like disestablishments would always be smaller since everything starts but not everything stops (e.g. when existing populated places were founded). Does it aid navigation to tie them together? - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

::* {{ping|RevelationDirect}} well, when you are interested in reading all what happened in a certain year, then you will no longer find the disestablishments in there after this merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:37, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

:::*Hmm, I was thinking a reader at the article level some might be years and others decade at the bottom anyway. Appreciate your different perspective from someone navigating at the category level. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose with regards to the Dutch East Indies ones. I would say some of them do have room for growth because the coverage of historical Dutch colonial topics and/or Indonesian history is still quite poor on EN Wiki. There are political parties, newspapers with large circulations, and other historical business types which only have very partial coverage so far and yet which would be historically notable. Many of these have years of founding and closing down. Regarding the Antilles one I don't know much and don't have much of an opinion. I think there we're talking about colonies with quite small populations and not the millions, right? Dan Carkner (talk) 17:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge for Now with no objection to recreation if they ever grow to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• :As someone who created some of these when I created an article and found that year was missing, I do not object to this, although I suspect if someone in the future was not aware of this discussion they may go ahead and do as I did regardless. But if it tidies the surplus of small categories here I understand the logic behind doing so. Dan Carkner (talk) 18:05, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. Often times the (dis)establishment category is the only cat/article in YYYY in country. –Aidan721 (talk) 12:05, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge all per nom. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 14:18, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: procedural close. WP:SOCKSTRIKE (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:51, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Society of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic to :Category:Society of Western Sahara

:Nominator's rationale: More precise and neutral. Skovl (talk) 12:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

• Split between :Category:Society of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic for everything that is specifically about the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic and :Category:Society of Western Sahara for the remainder. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
• Split per Marcocapelle.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:01, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
• Rename. Strongly oppose split as the differences in category names appear to be historical accidents of naming, and separating the hierarchies would be detrimental to the topic. It has not been demonstrated that Sahrawi society is sufficiently different within Sahrawi refugee camps (in Algeria), as opposed to Western Sahara, for a second Society hierarchy to be useful for navigation. Instead, we should speedily rename e.g. :Category:Feminism in the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic to :Category:Feminism in Western Sahara to match the majority of the hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 22:09, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Without contradicting my earlier split proposal I can support this rename too, provided that there is a manual check that articles which belong in the tree of :Category:Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic stay in that tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: There is a dispute that concerns factual matters.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:17, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

• Question: Any idea why {{oldid2|1083278151|Category:Sahrawi culture}} is in {{Cl|Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic}}, while {{oldid2|988346274|Category:Sahrawi people}} is in {{Cl|Western Sahara}}? Place Clichy (talk) 11:19, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
• Weak rename as a slightly better name. Place Clichy (talk) 11:19, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 13:10, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:2000 wildfires in North America (1 C) to :Category:2000 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2001 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 1 P) to :Category:2001 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2002 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2002 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2003 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 2 P) to :Category:2003 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2004 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2004 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2005 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2005 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2006 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2006 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2007 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2007 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2008 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2008 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2009 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 1 P) to :Category:2009 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2010 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 2 P) to :Category:2010 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2011 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 3 P) to :Category:2011 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2012 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 2 P) to :Category:2012 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2013 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2013 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2014 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2014 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2015 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 1 P) to :Category:2015 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2016 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 1 P) to :Category:2016 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2017 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 3 P) to :Category:2017 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2018 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 3 P) to :Category:2018 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2019 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 1 P) to :Category:2019 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2020 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2020 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2021 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C, 3 P) to :Category:2021 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2022 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2022 wildfires

:* Propose merging :Category:2023 wildfires in North America‎ (1 C) to :Category:2023 wildfires

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer, apart from the US subcategories (which are not nominated) these categories mostly contain 0-3 articles. Also note that there aren't any other wildfires by year and continent categories. A dual merge is not needed, all articles are about Canada and are already in :Category:21st-century wildfires in Canada and in a "year disasters in Canada" category. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:35, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Merge Per nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:23, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:45, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Duologies}}

:Nominator's rationale: A "duology" is not actually a dictionary term, merely a neologism used mostly in genre fiction to describe a series of two works. Even if it were a word, there is no evidence that the majority of these "series of two" works are bona fide "duologies" in the same way that trilogies are, i.e. a conceived as such from inception, rather than merely being a film with a sequel, etc. See also the two previous deletion discussions on the article here and here. --woodensuperman 08:52, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

::Please also see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 September 5#Category:Film series by number of entries. So we should be purging all the other numbered categories too {{cl|Trilogies}}, etc. --woodensuperman 09:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

::Update. Further to below, I have started purging film series per previous discussions Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 September 5#Category:Film series by number of entries and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 July 21#Film trilogies. I don't think there will be much left in any of these series categories. --woodensuperman 14:11, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Duology isn't a neologism at all, it was in use in the 19th c. already to refer to e.g. the Iliad and Odyssea[https://books.google.be/books?id=3P06AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA8&dq=duology&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKp5Wl27X-AhV0ZaQEHREkC20Q6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=duology&f=false][https://books.google.be/books?id=2pZGAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA395&dq=duology&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibnIP327X-AhUeTqQEHXliBtU4ChDoAXoECAcQAg#v=onepage&q=duology&f=false], or to pairs of musical compositions[https://books.google.be/books?id=EjNr3-q7uQAC&pg=PA235&dq=duology&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKp5Wl27X-AhV0ZaQEHREkC20Q6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=duology&f=false]. Being infrequently or rarely used doesn't make something a neologism. Fram (talk) 10:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

::However, [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duology not being in the dictionary] does make it a neologism. --woodensuperman 10:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

:::No that doesn't make any sense. Neologism is a new word. If the word exists for a long time, it is by definition not a neologism. Assuming words not in the dictionary are neologisms makes no sense. It assumes that the dictionary is a compendium of all words that ever existed, which is patently false. Different dictionaries even lists how many words each contains, and have differing amounts and different word lists, with dictionaries even dropping words to keep their compact form. It would be like saying that any topic not already in Wikipedia is a topic that did not exist before Wikipedias was created, which is also a false statement. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 17:33, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

::::It could be a serial form of neologism, i.e. people keep coinging it but it never receives/d any traction. In any case we're digressing. Whatever you want to call it, the word isn't a dictionary defined word so we should not be using it here or anywhere else in our articles. --woodensuperman 11:10, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, the category does not contain any article in which a pair of works is discussed as a duology. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:34, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete as most of the entries are just films with sequels. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 00:57, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Canadian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation}}

:** Propose deleting {{lc|Canadian people of Haitian descent by occupation‎}} (1 C)

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian sportspeople of Haitian descent‎}} (43 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Haitian descent

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.

• Note: stray sportspeople missed by earlier deletion.
• Followup to:
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 18#Category:Iraqi people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 18#Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:People by ethnic or national descent and occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people of Asian descent by occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Sportspeople by ethnic or national origin

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:15, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support, trivial intersection between occupation and ancestors' nationality. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Nothing defining about this intersection. The merge target is sufficient to convey the ancestry notion, if that is defining. Place Clichy (talk) 12:29, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete and merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Canadian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin}}

:** Propose deleting {{lc|Canadian gangsters by ethnic or national origin‎}} (2 C)

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian gangsters of Irish descent‎}} (8 P)
to :Category:Canadian gangsters and :Category:Canadian people of Irish descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian gangsters of Italian descent‎}} (1 C, 31 P)
to :Category:Canadian gangsters and :Category:Canadian people of Italian descent

:**** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian gangsters of Sicilian descent‎}} (9 P)
to :Category:Canadian gangsters and :Category:Canadian people of Sicilian descent

:** Propose deleting {{lc|Canadian politicians by ethnic or national origin‎}} (14 C)

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Chinese descent‎}} (62 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Chinese descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Egyptian descent}}‎ (4 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Egyptian descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Filipino descent}}‎ (14 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Filipino descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Indian descent}}‎ (1 C, 104 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Indian descent

:**** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Punjabi descent‎}} (41 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Punjabi descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Iranian descent‎}} (7 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Iranian descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Italian descent‎}} (11 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Italian descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Japanese descent}}‎ (5 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Japanese descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Korean descent}}‎ (6 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Korean descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Lebanese descent}}‎ (27 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Lebanese descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Pakistani descent‎}} (16 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Pakistani descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Sri Lankan descent‎}} (5 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Sri Lankan descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Syrian descent‎}} (5 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Syrian descent

:*** Propose merging {{lc|Canadian politicians of Vietnamese descent‎}} (7 P)
to :Category:Canadian people of Vietnamese descent

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.

• Note: after removal of sportspeople, only gangsters and politicians remain. None have a main article. No combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. Politicians should already be in subcategories of {{cl|Canadian politicians}}.
• Followup to:
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 18#Category:Iraqi people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 18#Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:People by ethnic or national descent and occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people of Asian descent by occupation
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Sportspeople by ethnic or national origin

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:15, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support, trivial intersection between occupation and ancestors' nationality. Perhaps gangsters of Italian/Sicilian descent are involved in the mafia, but if so they should be in a mafia category. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:34, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete/merge per nom and Marcocapelle. Organized crime is one of the few areas where ethnicity of the groups is actually defining, but that does not necessarily involve descent. In the US, some Irishmen and Jews acquired fame in the otherwise Sicilian-led mafia. Place Clichy (talk) 12:32, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Liberal National Right politicians}}

:Nominator's rationale: A category of this nature including many BLPs is quite controversial because:

:a) The liberal party don't have formal factions, therefore names are arbitrarily added to the category, in many cases, using WP:OR.

:b) Many MPs that are already listed in the category don't have any evidence of being 'Liberal National Right Politicians'
––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 05:34, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support delete I'm a keen observer of Australian politics, and this is pretty obvious partisan sledging. Never heard a term resembling anything like a "Liberal National Right politician" used in mainstream reportage.

::Tambor de Tocino (talk) 00:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

:::Can you explain what you mean by "partisan sledging"? These factions or groupings are periodically discussed in relation to the internal dynamics of LNP governments/oppositions, just as Labor's factions are periodically discussed in the context of the dynamics of Labor governments/oppositions. What is partisan? and what is sledging here? hamiltonstone (talk) 13:14, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per the above. StAnselm (talk) 01:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Comment (leaning to retain). Repeating my comment from category deletion discussion above: Whether a faction is formalised in any particular manner is not relevant to whether it exists, and therefore to whether it is a significant topic deserving of either a WP article or a WP category. The factions in the LNP are more fluid than those in the ALP (see eg. van Onselen's 2011 essay in the Monthly), but there are real groupings, recognised by both participants and observers, and able to be researched and documented, as they are by Massola but also by others (eg Hawker's 2005 paper in Australian Quarterly). I do not understand the claim regarding OR - the National Right article has an OR template on it, but most of the content is cited. The fact that Massola himself did original research, is not relevant to whether the WP article is OR - it is not, even if it needs improvement. Our concern as editors I think is whether there is a body of knowledge attributable to reliable sources that has sufficient significance to be written about in WP and, in relation to the category, whether there are reliable sources that link a group of articles to a category in a consistent way. I don't doubt that some of the MPs placed in this (or a sister) category don't see themselves in that way, or do not use the label - but our test is whether reliable sources do so, and whether it is meaningful information. I would suggest that they do, and it is. hamiltonstone (talk) 13:12, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
• Keep – Some editors seem to misunderstand what a faction is and how we can categorise politicians. The National Right is a real faction, even though it isn't formally organised, and we have solid sourcing for some politicans who have identified with it. The article is dodgy and should be deleted, but the category isn't and shouldn't be. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 13:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

::Do you mean the National Right (Liberal Party of Australia) article? Because I don't think we can have a category like this without an article to support it. StAnselm (talk) 18:06, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete This is not a proposal to delete any wikipedia article but rather a category that has become an OR magnet and has no evidence of being defining for most politicians in it. (t · c) buidhe 08:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
• :Understand, but the claim about OR also lacks substantiation and is not being addressed on the talk pages, which surely would be the first step. An editor recently removed the list of names from the article, claiming OR, yet there was a citation for that list, which does indeed contain the names in the article. The OR claim itself there is problematic. I also don't really understand the motivation of editors in this - given that there are references, why is there such a drive to avoid this topic being covered? Just because LNP factions are organised differently and more loosely than Labor factions, doesn't mean they do not exist. hamiltonstone (talk) 11:58, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

:::The cited article contained some of the names in the list, but not most of them. StAnselm (talk) 15:17, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete WP:V WP:RS WP:OR WP:CIRCULAR — the only source for this term seems to be en.wikipedia. The purported main article {{la|National Right (Liberal Party of Australia)}} is disputed, and doesn't match this name.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:10, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.