Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:36, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Health and disability rights organizations in the United Kingdom to :Category:Health and disability rights organisations in the United Kingdom

:Nominator's rationale: It seems to be the common Wikipedia norm for UK relevant categories (e.g. :Category:Disability organisations based in the United Kingdom) to use the spelling "organisation" over "organization". Helper201 (talk) 04:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 21:16, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Rename, WP:C2C per :Category:Disability organisations based in the United Kingdom etc. This could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:36, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Albums about the Moon to :Category:Music about the Moon

:Nominator's rationale: After removing four of the seven entries (The Dark Side of the Moon, Harvest Moon (album), Music Out of the Moon, Pink Moon) because they all appear to have been added based solely on their names, the remaining three-entry category seems a bit too small to be worth keeping separate, and thus I propose an upmerge. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 09:33, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 21:14, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: purge and keep. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:39, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Nationalist terrorism in Europe to :Category:Political violence in Europe

:Nominator's rationale: This category is a mixture of terrorism categories and categories and articles related to various forms of more nuanced nationalistic violence. It should be merged into :Category:Political violence in Europe, which is the more all-embracing and less labelling terminology. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep but purge.
• Purge: :Category:2001 insurgency in Macedonia can't be dismissed as "terrorism" as a whole, though it was certainly primarily fuelled by Albanian nationalism/separatism.
• Keep: :Category:Palestinian terrorist incidents in Europe, because parent :Category:Terrorist attacks attributed to Palestinian militant groups is in grandparent :Category:Palestinian political violence, which is in great-grandparent :Category:Palestinian nationalism. Therefore, :Category:Palestinian terrorist incidents in Europe are nationalist terrorism in Europe.
• Manually purge: :Category:Abu Nidal is too broad. We need to check which :Category:Abu Nidal attacks happened in Europe, e.g. Antwerp, Rome, Paris, Frankfurt, Brussels, etc. should be manually added to :Category:Palestinian terrorist incidents in Europe (if they aren't already), but not Jaffa, Khartoum, Kuwait, Gulf Air Flight 771 etc.
• Manually purge: :Category:Black September Organization attacks is too broad. We need to check which :Category:Black September Organization attacks happened in Europe, e.g. Munich, Antwerp, Athens etc. should be manually added to :Category:Palestinian terrorist incidents in Europe (if they aren't already), but not Khartoum, Bangkok, New York City etc.
• Manually purge: :Category:Grey Wolves (organization) is too broad. We need to check which :Category:Grey Wolves (organization) attacks happened in Europe, i.e. Alfortville Armenian Genocide Memorial bombings, Beyazıt massacre (Istanbul), Abdi İpekçi (murdered in Istanbul), Attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II (Vatican City), should be manually added to :Category:Nationalist terrorism in Europe (if they aren't already), but not Bahçelievler massacre (Ankara), 2015 Bangkok bombing, Çorum massacre (Anatolia), or Maraş massacre (Anatolia).
• Keep: :Category:Caucasus Emirate, because it is in :Category:Chechen nationalism, :Category:Organizations designated as terrorist by the United States and :Category:Islamic terrorism in Russia.
• Keep: :Category:Croatian nationalist terrorism and :Category:Galician nationalist terrorism by definition.
• Keep: :Category:ETA (separatist group), parents make that clear.
• Keep: :Category:Terrorism in Northern Ireland. Both :Category:Irish republicanism and :Category:Ulster loyalism are categorised as "nationalism", so all terrorists from such groups are nationalists by definition.
• Purge: :Category:Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. They definitely were nationalists, but I see no parent or child categories labelling them as "terrorist". At most :Category:War crimes committed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army could be kept, but as the name suggests, they are better categorised as "war crimes" than as "terrorist attacks" (which generally happen in peacetime and under cover rather than in wartime by a rebel army operating out in the open. E.g. ISIL committing a massacre after conquering a town in Iraq or Syria is a "war crime", but ISIL bombing a train in Western Europe is a "terrorist attack". These are not absolute terms, but the conventional way in which they are used).
• We should also look at the items in the group, but let's start discussing the subcategories first. They are easier to reach consensus on. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• :It's still going to be a rather emaciated category tree, but sure, if just purging the category of the more dubious inclusions (the Ukraine stuff particularly) is preferable then let's go with that. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:03, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 21:10, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep but purge per NL. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:49, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
• Keep but purge. Mohanabhil (talk) 17:26, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:District attorneys in North Dakota to :Category:State's attorneys in North Dakota

:Nominator's rationale: Wrong job title, at least according to the articles in the category. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:51, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:23, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:45, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Software Hells}}

:Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization by shared name, resulting in a WP:SMALLCAT for just two things. Bearcat (talk) 14:08, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• Delete, the two articles already link to each other directly, there is no navigational benefit in creating this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:46, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Queens of Cyprus to :Category:Cypriot royalty, :Category:Women of the Crusader states, and :Category:Nobility of the Crusader states

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant layer. 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:37, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:48, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:47, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Hereditary Princes of Hesse-Rotenburg}}

:Nominator's rationale: Single-entry WP:SMALLCAT for just one person. This would be fine if there were five of these, but it does not facilitate navigation of the Wikipedia to obsessively categorize everything down to microcategories of one. Bearcat (talk) 12:19, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete for now with no prejudice against recreation (NPAR) if at least 5 items can be found. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:16, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• Delete for now per NL. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 18:42, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Royalty of the Crusader states to :Category:Nobility of the Crusader states

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant layer, 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:05, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• ::Do not support Royalty and nobility are not synonyms, they are two different things. To treat them as if they were the same thing makes less informed people misunderstand them and think they are synonyms. To often, Wikipedia use the same categories for nobility and royalty as if they were the same. And indeed, many ignorant people seem to think they are the same, which only enforces ignorance and do the reader and injustice. Wikipedia should not over simplify things but use the correct terms. The category is not a redundant layer. It is a necessary one, since royalty and nobility is not the same thing.--Aciram (talk) 11:10, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• :::You might have a point. Would you consider the following women to have been "royalty", or just "nobility"?
• :::* Alice of Antioch
• :::* Hodierna of Jerusalem
• :::* Ioveta of Bethany
• :::They are in :Category:Royalty of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, but they were not queens of Jerusalem. The reason they seem to be in this category is because they were daughters of Baldwin II of Jerusalem. To me, that is a good reason.
• :::But the other Crusader states were not kingdoms, so their nobility is probably not 'royalty', so the only subcategory of :Category:Royalty of the Crusader states would be :Category:Royalty of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:47, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• ::::Unless.... List of Crusader states also mentions Kingdom of Cyprus and Latin Empire. Okay never mind! Just gotta populate this category. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:50, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• Withdraw as nom. I found I can populate this category so it is no longer redundant. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:50, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:48, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:13th-century kings of Jerusalem to :Category:13th-century monarchs of Jerusalem

:* Propose renaming :Category:12th-century kings of Jerusalem to :Category:12th-century monarchs of Jerusalem

:* Propose renaming :Category:11th-century kings of Jerusalem to :Category:11th-century monarchs of Jerusalem

:** Re-parent all three to grandparent :Category:Monarchs of Jerusalem

:Nominator's rationale: 5 of them were women as queens regnant. Per grandparent :Category:Monarchs of Jerusalem, we should use "monarchs" for both queens regnant and kings, instead of male-only "kings". All three of these "by century" cats should be re-parented to :Category:Monarchs of Jerusalem. The :Category:Kings of Jerusalem should only be populated with men. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:57, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

::Support renaming to monarchs. Wikipedia should use gender neutral terms when possible and to make categories more consistent. --Aciram (talk) 11:07, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support Why not? Dimadick (talk) 14:11, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: reverse merge then rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:49, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Dutch movie series to :Category:Dutch film series

:Nominator's rationale: I just created "Dutch film series" but now I realise there is also "Dutch movie series" created in 2015. I think the word "film" is better suited and it's also what we use for other European countries, see :Category:Film series by country. Simeon (talk) 10:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom and WP:C2B; "films" is indeed the established naming convention. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• Reverse merge, then rename in order to keep the history of the older page. User:Fayenatic london uses different terminology for this but the intention is the same. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:55, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Buildings and structures destroyed by natural disasters. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:51, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Buildings and structures destroyed by wildfires to :Category:Burned buildings and structures and :Category:Buildings and structures destroyed by natural disasters and :Category:Wildfires

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only a single subcategory. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:06, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete rather than merge, the subcategory is already deeper down in the trees of all three proposed merge targets. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:36, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
• :I cannot confirm this for :Category:Buildings and structures destroyed by natural disasters, whose other subcategories are all for other types of disasters. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:39, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
• :* You are right, then merge to :Category:Buildings and structures destroyed by natural disasters only. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:42, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.