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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 31

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= July 31 =

== Category:Medieval archaeological cultures ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:40, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Medieval archaeological cultures to :Category:Archaeological cultures by period and :Category:Medieval culture

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant layer: 0 P, 1 C. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Archaeological cultures of Western Europe ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:40, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeological cultures of Western Europe to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeological cultures of Northern Europe to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeological cultures of Central Europe to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeological cultures of Southern Europe to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeological cultures of Southeastern Europe to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeological cultures of Eastern Europe to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Europe

:

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeology of Western Europe to :Category:Archaeology in Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeology of Central Europe to :Category:Archaeology in Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeology of Southern Europe to :Category:Archaeology in Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeology of Southeastern Europe to :Category:Archaeology in Europe

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Archaeology of Eastern Europe to :Category:Archaeology in Europe

:

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Scandinavian archaeology to :Category:Archaeology of Northern Europe

:Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to :Category:Archaeological cultures of Southwestern Europe and :Category:Archaeology of Northwestern Europe (and other precedents before it, each concluding that dividing Europe into "Western", "Northern" etc violates WP:ARBITRARYCAT). Archaeology of Northern Europe is the only main article which deserves its own category, :Category:Archaeology of Northern Europe, but we should still upmerge :Category:Scandinavian archaeology into it per WP:NARROWCAT. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

  • Merge, it could hypothetically have been helpful to have these categories if archaeological cultures would consistently be located within one of these regions and across countries of that region, but that is not the case. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
  • :Indeed. Therefore, Upmerge. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:25, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Video games with title protagonists ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:40, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Video games with title protagonists}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not a WP:CATDEF by any means, video games in which the protagonist is also mentioned in the title? C'mon. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:04, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom. Might as well start a :Category:Video games with names beginning with "The". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Keep. Firstly, there were a HUGE number of games named in this way. Secondly, it's kinda equivalent to a category for characters with games named after them, but this is better because a lot of the characters might not have their own article, ie the game is the tangible object with more notability/sources, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.68.82 (talk) 19:57, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
  • :{{!xt|there were a HUGE number of games named in this way.}} There is also a HUGE number of games with names beginning with "The". So what? That doesn't make it WP:DEFINING. I'm also pretty sure there is a HUGE number of games with names in which "of" is the second word. So what? Still WP:NONDEFINING. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:28, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

==Treasure troves by country==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Relisted * Pppery * it has begun... 00:22, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 8%23Treasure troves by country

:@GreenC You might want to move your comment to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 8#Treasure troves by country. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

::Done. -- GreenC 19:26, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

==Category:American people of West Asian descent==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 8%23Category:American people of West Asian descent

== Category:Al-Masry SC matches ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:41, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Al-Masry SC matches to :Category:Al Masry SC matches

:Nominator's rationale: Requesting renaming of the category to :Category:Al Masry SC matches, to match parent article Al Masry SC. Note that I created the target category without noticing that it was already existing but with a different name. Ben5218 (talk) 16:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Baseball at the 2015 Pan American Games templates ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Baseball at the 2015 Pan American Games templates}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, the events sidebar and Canadian roster templates are already well-categorized, so no upmerging is needed. Frietjes (talk) 15:15, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Hong Kong political prisoners ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Political prisoners held by Hong Kong. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Hong Kong political prisoners to :Category:Political prisoners in Hong Kong

:** Alt Rename :Category:Hong Kong political prisoners to :Category:Political prisoners held by Hong Kong

:* Re-parent from :Category:Chinese prisoners and detainees to :Category:Prisoners and detainees of Hong Kong (child of :Category:Prisoners and detainees of China)

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent :Category:Political repression in Hong Kong (location/authority); child :Category:People convicted under the Hong Kong national security law (location/authority); most siblings siblings in :Category:Political prisoners by country are already named {{xt|Category:Political prisoners in Fooland}}. Category description: {{tq|Current or former political prisoners in Hong Kong.}} Follow-up to the failed bundled CfR "Political prisoners by country". This one of the easier ones I wish to rename separately. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

:Alt Rename rationale: Consistent with cousin categories such as :Category:Prisoners of war by detaining country, containing children called {{xt|Category:Prisoners of war held by Fooland}}. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

  • Support alt for consistency with cousin categories. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:13, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Romanian political prisoners ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Political prisoners held by Romania. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Romanian political prisoners to :Category:Political prisoners in Romania

:** Alt Rename :Category:Romanian political prisoners to :Category:Political prisoners held by Romania

:* Re-parent from :Category:Romanian prisoners and detainees to :Category:Prisoners and detainees of Romania

:Nominator's rationale: More WP:CATSPECIFIC, WP:C2C. Follow-up to the failed bundled CfR "Political prisoners by country", where the question was whether these categories were defined by the nationality of the prisoners, or the country they were held in (location) or by (authority), especially in the case of Polish / Poland. With Romania, I think the case is much clearer: these are all people who have been both imprisoned/detained in Romania (location) as well as by Romania (Romanian governmental authorities). In practice, these are the same; all were detained on Romanian soil by Romanian authorities. However, not all of them necessarily had "Romanian nationality".

{{cot|Detailed rationale}}

: Nationality seems not of primary importance in this tree, and there are many ambiguous examples: Dumitru Topciu (the only item directly in this category) could be categorised as Imperial-Russian, Republican-Russian, Bessarabian, Moldovan, Romanian, Gagauz (and perhaps Bulgarian) for various reasons, and if you look at the categories, he actually is. The two subcats are much clearer: :Category:People detained by the Securitate and :Category:People detained by the Siguranța, both of which are also children of :Category:Prisoners and detainees of Romania, which is explicitly exclusively for {{tq|Prisoners and detainees held by Romania. For prisoners and detainees of Romanian nationality, see :Category:Romanian prisoners and detainees.}} If you look at various items in these subcategories, you see lots of different or double nationalities (Boris Stefanov, Bulgarian/Romanian; Elek Köblös, Austro-Hungarian/Hungarian/Romanian; Vitali Holostenco, Imperial-Russian/Ukrainian/Bessarabian/Romanian/Soviet etc.). What these three have in common is not so much Romanian nationality, much less ethnicity (they were all born in different countries with different native languages, but somehow ended up in Romania), but being suspects in the :Category:Dealul Spirii Trial (parent :Category:Trials in Romania) and they were all part of a larger group of :Category:People detained by the Siguranța.

:Proposed wording: Given all that, perhaps a more accurate description of the whole thing might be {{xt|Category:Political prisoners detained in Romania by various Romanian authorities}}. But that would be way too wordy, so let's just stick with :Category:Political prisoners in Romania. Most siblings in :Category:Political prisoners by country are already named {{xt|Category:Political prisoners in Fooland}}, so WP:C2C.

{{cob}}

:Re-parenting: The parents also need to be cleared up: :Category:Political repression in Romania is correct, but just like the two subcats, :Category:Romanian prisoners and detainees (=prisoners with Romanian nationality, regardless of location or detaining authority) must be Re-parented to :Category:Prisoners and detainees of Romania (=prisoners and detainees held in Romania / by Romanian authorities, regardless of their nationality). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Uncontested and uncontroversial nomination. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:44, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. As much as I think Ghost Trick is good, this category only contains 3 things, one of which is a navbox. There doesn't seem to be a likelihood it will expand further, and with one game, it is dubious to call it a "franchise". In the unlikely event of a sequel, it can be revisited. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Texts of medieval France ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. All of the concerns raised during the nomination have been resolved. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:45, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Texts of medieval France}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Unlike Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 21#Category:Texts of medieval Ireland, which was already complicated enough, I see no way to re-purpose or refine the scope of this category into something useful. It mixes up language, country of production, and topic.

:* E.g. :Category:Carolingian Latin literature and its child :Category:Carolingian Latin historical texts are written in Latin (not French), often outside the modern borders of France, and not about France but about various other topics in other settings, such as De Pippini regis Victoria Avarica {{tq|celebrating the victory of King Pepin of Italy over the Avars in the summer of 796}}. Nothing "French/France" about it.

:* Next, :Category:Chronicles about France aren't necessarily written in French, they could also be in Latin or Anglo-Norman, and the latter are often more about England than France.

:* Meanwhile, :Category:Medieval French literature may only contain items written in French, but works like Gargantua and Pantagruel and Reynard the Fox are completely fictional and are not set in "medieval France", and often not even written "in medieval French" (e.g. Van den vos Reynaerde is the Dutch version of the Reynard cycle, most likely produced in Ghent, Flanders, mix of France/HRE).

:* Finally, :Category:Old French texts aren't necessarily written in medieval France, nor about medieval France, e.g. some :Category:Old French chronicles about the Crusades also exist.

:There is just nothing holding this category together, no red line. It's all vaguely "French", but in different ways, arbitrarily lumped together as a catch-all. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:54, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.