Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 10#Category:Estonian numismatists

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Religious extremism by country to :Category:Religious extremism

:Nominator's rationale: No need to have a category with a single country in it. This is unhelpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 21:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:59, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
• Upmerge for now without prejudice per nom. I suggest a follow-up speedy renaming of the target to :Category:Religious fanaticism per WP:C2D. NLeeuw (talk) 00:47, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Religious police to :Category:Vice squads

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories Mason (talk) 21:27, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge/delete per nom, and because it is a redundant category layer with only one subcategory. The subcategory is already in the target so merge and delete have the same effect. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect for traceability, as the subcat uses the name "religious police". – Fayenatic London 10:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Russian Military leaders of the 2022 Russo-Ukrainian War}}

:Nominator's rationale: Does not match the main article, Russian invasion of Ukraine and is populated solely by politicians. AusLondonder (talk) 20:12, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

::Shouldn't it be merged instead of deleted then? Mason (talk) 01:43, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

::* Merged to which category? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

• Delete (or merge when there is a suitable target), these aren't military leaders. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Even if we were to rename "Military" to "political", it's arbitrarily put together. These are the presidents of the RF, DNR and LNR, but one might just as well include Lukashenka, the Ayatollah of Iran and Kim Jong-un, or all heads of all federal subjects of the Russian Federation including Kadyrov. NLeeuw (talk) 00:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Universities Canada}}

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping with {{cl|Universities in Canada}}. User:Namiba 20:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, and just membership of an organization is hardly ever a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:07, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Military leaders of the 2022 Russo-Ukrainian War}}

:Nominator's rationale: This category does not match the article, namely Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is also populated solely by one political leader, not a military leader. AusLondonder (talk) 20:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Delete (or merge), this should end the same way as :Category:Russian Military leaders of the 2022 Russo-Ukrainian War further up this page. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: partial merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Mashriqi Jews}}

:Nominator's rationale: per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mashriqi Jews, the term is rarely used. Another possibility: to upmerge into :Category:Mizrahi Jews pr their subcats - :Category:North African Jews and :Category:West Asian Jews‎. Альдий (talk) 19:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

::If not kept, I think we should merge, not delete. Mason (talk) 21:33, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, no need to merge because all content is already part of the tree of :Category:Mizrahi Jews. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
• Partial merge, moving {{c|Arabian Jews}} up into {{c|Middle Eastern Jews}}, and {{c|Emirati Jews}} into that one. – Fayenatic London 12:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Musta'arabi Jews to :Category:Arab Jews

:Nominator's rationale: Small subcategory. Another possibility: to upmerge directly into :Category:Mizrahi Jews. Альдий (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

::FYI: Wikipedia:Overcategorization/Small with no potential for growth is no longer a reason to delete a category. Mason (talk) 21:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, it seems to overlap strongly with :Category:Jews and Judaism in Syria. The main article may be moved to :Category:Arab Jews but the other article does not belong there. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims 1941-49 to :Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims

:Nominator's rationale: Merge as arbcat. Why 1941 to 1949? This distinction seems arbitrary. (If not merged, it should be renamed to Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims in the 1940s) Mason (talk) 03:20, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:38, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Alt Rename to :Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims in the 1940s as suggested by nom. Current periodisation seems arbitrary, but decades cats are common practice. NLeeuw (talk) 05:14, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Decades are common practice when there are multiple sibling decade categories, but that is not going to happen in this case. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

:*:Hmmm I wouldn't be sure about that, but now that I think about it, perhaps a subdivision by century is a viable alternative? NLeeuw (talk) 20:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

:*:* At most we can create :Category:19th-century anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims and :Category:20th-century anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims but it isn't very necessary. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:18, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

:*:*:Good point. We could create broader categories for the rest, like "medieval" (622-1500; 4 items) and "early modern Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims" (1500-1800; 4 items). But that is quite meagre, and we still couldn't set it up with Navseasonscat, so I guess Upmerging for now is a better option. NLeeuw (talk) 22:18, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge to :Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms. There is no need to differentiate based on religion. Moreover, in many of the cases, the participants were not all Muslims.--User:Namiba 00:25, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Reply to User:Namiba: as :Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims exists and has not been nominated for merger, that is the right target for now. Of course you may nominate :Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims for merger as well but that would be a different sort of discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:48, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• :I have nominated it above.--User:Namiba 18:42, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• :I think Namiba has made a good case for upmerging that category as well. Procedurally, I think it's best if we reach agreement to upmerge this one first, otherwise we'd be trying to upmerge into a category that doesn't exist anymore. NLeeuw (talk) 18:42, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• Whatever is done, get rid of this name. "By Muslims" is simply unacceptable in a category name. Even when the majority of the perpetrators were Muslims, the name implies that their religion was a key factor in the process (rather than politics, economics, etc.). Usually this is either false or unknown. Would we name a cat about things done by Israel with "by Jews"? Zero^talk 04:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge per HouseBlaster. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Réunion to :Category:19th century in Réunion and :Category:Roman Catholic churches in Réunion and :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only 4 churches total in :Category:Roman Catholic churches in Réunion, so diffusion by century isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 20:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
• For the last proposed destination, merge to :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France instead. Réunion is a département et région d'outre-mer of France. The nominator gotta read more to make responsible nominations. 121.202.28.169 (talk) 11:36, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
• :Sigh... to the closer these are probably the same IP (Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:185.104.63.112_reported_by_User:Smasongarrison_(Result:_Blocked)) Mason (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
• I have mixed feelings about :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France as an alternative merge target, would certainly not strongly oppose it. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• :Yeah, I also have mixed feelings about "in France" Mason (talk) 19:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• :: What about, say, Hawaii or Alaska? (Or Malta should integration be achieved back in the 1950s–60s?) 61.244.93.97 (talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• ::: Or Kaliningrad post-1945? 61.244.93.97 (talk) 09:59, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep so that it may be grouped under an African parent category when there are also such by continent parents. 61.244.93.97 (talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• If you create it then of course it is a good merge target too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as stated above; or otherwise the next preferable choice would be merger with Roman catholic church buildings in all other départements et régions d'outre-mer under the same category. 61.244.93.97 (talk) 08:00, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• Keep this category and put it under both the French and the African hierarchy. 83.229.61.201 (talk) 15:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• As an IP user you can vote as many times as you want but don't expect it to be taken seriously by the closer of the discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Further comments on the final merge target, specifically on whether these churches belong in the "France" category, would be appreciated!
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 14:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

::* @Marcocapelle: I don't bother to vote more than once for this. 83.229.61.201 (talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

::*:Pretty sure you did... Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Hong Kong geography warrior Mason (talk) 22:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge to multiple targets including France, and the new :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Africa. The nominator has added 2 articles in the nominated category to 2 articles in the Reunion parent to make 4, but they are the same 2 articles, so no breakdown of Reunion churches is justified. – Fayenatic London 21:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Re the Africa category, I have added a parent :Category:19th-century churches in Africa and retrieved some contents that had been upmerged per Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_23#Category:Anglican_cathedrals_by_country. {{ping|CanonNi}} please expand the hierarchy around these still-isolated categories to other continents and centuries. – Fayenatic London 11:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
• :Sorry but I created the categories from category requests. Try contacting the requester. Thanks. CanonNi (talk) 11:24, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
• @Fayenatic london: Cool. Would you think it's easier to navigate and clearer to understand from the audience' point of view to have for these buildings in Réunion a subcategory under both the French and the African categories, than a four-way upmerge? 83.229.61.201 (talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
• Thanks for following this – I assume you're the same editor as the requester {{user|59.152.195.28}}. I used to support thin hierarchies with very specific intersections, but in the last few years there have been many precedents at CFD with consensus to merge such cases. So no, I don't recommend creating categories with only one or two members, except where we can reasonably expect that more eligible articles will be created fairly soon. – Fayenatic London 13:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
• No I'm not. Given the number of articles in French on Wikipedia about churches in Réunion a lot more articles can reasonably be expected. 83.229.61.201 (talk) 09:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• :That's not a criteria for keeping a category. Mason (talk) 13:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge to :Category:19th century in Réunion, :Category:Roman Catholic churches in Réunion, :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Africa, and :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France. To make this easier on a closer, does this work for you, {{ping|Fayenatic london|Marcocapelle|Smasongarrison|p=?}} My understanding is that this merge is the general consensus above, but nobody is explicitly calling for it. Regarding France as a merge target, it appears FL supports it whereas Mason, Marcocapelle, and I are lukewarm about it; I have included it in this proposal because it is supported as a target by the only one with firm feelings about it. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:27, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

:* Fair enough, thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:48, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

:*:Works for me Mason (talk) 19:35, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

• That would be OK by me, but the position has shifted slightly in that Église Notre-Dame-de-la-Délivrance has since been created (by partial translation from fr wiki). With 3 members rather than 2, this category becomes (barely) useful as a subcat of :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France, and I would now be inclined to keep it. – Fayenatic London 09:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:40, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Languages used in Doordarshan}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Languages used in Akashvani}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Educational languages in Board of Secondary Education of Assam}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Educational languages in Assam Higher Secondary Education Council}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Advanced MILs in Assam Higher Secondary Education Council}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Formal languages used for Indian scriptures}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEF. PepperBeast (talk) 19:21, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:47, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. They are simply Indian languages, at most to be diffused by Indian state. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Burial sites of the House of Yurievichi to :Category:Burial sites of Russian noble families

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Burial sites of the House of Golitsyn to :Category:Burial sites of Russian noble families and :Category:Burial sites of the Gediminids

:Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. Upmerge for now. NLeeuw (talk) 11:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge for now, without objection to recreate any of these categories when some more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 06:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Uterus transplant recipients to :Category:Organ transplant recipients

:Nominator's rationale: small category with only one person in it, which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 02:19, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, the article Uterus transplant discusses a number of known cases and the recipients were apparently not notable by themselves (with one exception). Marcocapelle (talk) 03:20, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• In the future, there may be enough notable uterus transplant recipients to make it worthwhile to have a category. When that day comes, I hope someone recreates this category. But right now, with only one person in the category? Merge per nom. -sche (talk) 02:51, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge as proposed, then rename to :Category:Antifeminism. (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 06:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Anti-feminism to :Category:Opposition to feminism

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories. (If Anti-feminism is the preferred name, then we should still merge and then rename to preserve the edit history) Mason (talk) 02:17, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

::Reverse merge to :Category:Anti-feminism. AHI-3000 (talk) 17:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge or reverse merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Anti-feminism, Opposition to feminism and Criticism of feminism (with its own :Category:Criticism of feminism) currently all redirect to Antifeminism. There are evidently nuances to each of these terms, with "Criticism of feminism" being the broadest and "Anti(-)feminism" being the narrowest. I see there have been discussions in the past that criticism of feminism is not anti-feminism per se: Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 March 22#Criticism of feminism concluded that criticism of feminism should redirect to Feminism#Anti-feminism and criticism of feminism. But on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Criticism_of_feminism&diff=prev&oldid=1149796293 14 April 2023, a newcomer changed the link] to Anti-feminism without discussion. I think that undiscussed linkchange should be reverted. (Edit: {{Done}}).

:Given that, I think we should regard 'antifeminism' and 'opposition to feminism' as synonyms, and a subset of the broader phenomenon of 'criticism of feminism', which is currently (correctly) a parent of :Category:Opposition to feminism. The default way to go would be to have :Category:Antifeminism as a category per WP:C2D, and merge the other category into it. Pragmatically speaking, I agree with nom that we should preserve the edit history as much as possible, and pick the oldest category as the one to rename, and merge the younger 2 into it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Opposition_to_feminism&action=history Category:Opposition to feminism was created on 3 November 2019‎], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Anti-feminism&action=history Category:Anti-feminism on 20 January 2024‎]. Therefore, :Category:Opposition to feminism should be the merge target.

:Therefore, I suggest merging per nom, and afterways a speedy rename to :Category:Antifeminism per WP:C2D. (Maybe the second step can be taken in one go during this CfM already?). NLeeuw (talk) 12:27, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 06:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Pin-up models to :Category:Adult models

:* Propose merging :Category:American pin-up models to :Category:American adult models

:* Propose merging :Category:British pin-up models to :Category:British adult models

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories by a new (to categories) user. Mason (talk) 02:02, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Were they really adult models? The first article I am reading, Betty Bryant, does not mention anything about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• :Good question. Do you think that just targeted to regular models would be better? I don't think that this is really defining, as it's more of a layout/design/style rather than a type. Mason (talk) 03:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• :* Right, so I am leaning to deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
• Delete, not merge, as WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Many film stars were pinups but not adult models, e.g. Deanna Durbin for a wholesome case in point. – Fayenatic London 12:45, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 06:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:20th-century Australian women activists to :Category:20th-century Australian women and :Category:Australian women activists

:* Propose merging :Category:19th-century Australian women activists to :Category:19th-century Australian women and :Category:Australian women activists

:Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge. Several CFDs have decided that activists are not diffused by century Mason (talk) 01:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, activist is a modern occupation anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:43, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 06:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merge :Category:20th-century Australian women tennis players to :Category:20th-century Australian sportswomen and :Category:Australian female tennis players

:Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge. The norm is to not diffuse by century for specific sports. I already have a speedy rename in for the current parent category (20th-century Australian women athletes) Mason (talk) 01:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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