Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 16#Category:Jacobs family (telecom)

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Gentle reminder, Gonnym, about WP:C4 :) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|LocationParamUsageCheck templates}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Wikipedia LocationParamUsageCheck}}

:Nominator's rationale: Can't find this category used anywhere. Gonnym (talk) 23:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: I combined these into a single nomination. Courtesy pinging Gonnym. I don't know if the categories are currently used or not. They seem like tracking categories of some type. Possibly related to the members of :Category:Category header templates in some way? - jc37 01:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Genocide of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia perpetrators to :Category:Perpetrators of massacres in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

:Nominator's rationale: rename, article Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia uses "massacres" rather than "genocide", so let's follow that. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::While I think renaming this category would be a good idea, I'm not sure what the best title would be, the name should not sound too weirdly clunky if you know what I mean. AHI-3000 (talk) 21:23, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::* I am open to further improvements. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support This seems to match the main article. Dimadick (talk) 01:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:Propose dual merger/renaming of both :Category:Massacres of Poles in Eastern Galicia and :Category:Massacres of Poles in Volhynia into :Category:Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

:Nominator's rationale: I'm not sure why these two categories are separate from each other? They both have the same main article (Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia) and both share the same related subcategory (:Category:Genocide of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia perpetrators). So yeah we should just combine them together. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• The reason for the split is probably that they have :Category:History of Volhynia and :Category:History of Eastern Galicia as different parent categories. But I am not sure if that should be decisive. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• :{{ping|Marcocapelle}} If the two categories I nominated are merged together into one new category, then we can just add both :Category:History of Volhynia and :Category:History of Eastern Galicia as parent categories for :Category:Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia. AHI-3000 (talk) 09:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• :* Yes, I lean to support, it seems to be one coherent topic. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:09, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Barrancos to :Category:People from Beja District

:Nominator's rationale: Barrancos is of anthropological and linguistic interest as the home of the unique Barranquenho mix of Spanish and Portuguese, but it's also a town of just 1,800 people, only one of whom has a page on Wikipedia. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:51, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Miranda do Douro to :Category:People from Bragança District

:Nominator's rationale: Despite the anthropological interest in the home of the Mirandese language, there is only one article in this category. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Mesão Frio to :Category:People from Vila Real District

:Nominator's rationale: Category has one page. Town of 4,000 inhabitants offers little chance to populate the category. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:15, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Mealhada to :Category:People from Aveiro District

:Nominator's rationale: Category has one page. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Cuba, Portugal to :Category:People from Beja District

:Nominator's rationale: Category has one page. Town of 4,000 people offers little chance of growth. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Constância to :Category:People from Santarém District

:Nominator's rationale: Category has only one page. Town of 4,000 offers little chance of growth. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:39, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:Propose renaming :Category:Fictional parasite characters to :Category:Fictional parasites

:Nominator's rationale: Adding "characters" at the end is just unnecessary, plus I don't see why this should be restricted to (individual) characters that are parasites, rather than making it inclusive of any and all parasitic creatures and organisms in fiction, including species of parasites. "Parasite" is a biological term for a type of living creature, rather than an attribute of an individual person. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, we separate characters from species throughout the fiction tree. See also the previous discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:27, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• :@Marcocapelle: Whether this category is about individuals or species (I don't see why we can't cover both in the same category), why do you prefer "Fictional parasite characters" over just "Fictional parasites"? The latter is quicker and to the point, most categories for fictional characters (or groups of fictional characters) are not typically formatted as "Fictional X characters" because that's just getting unnecessarily redundant. AHI-3000 (talk) 09:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::@Dimadick, what do you think about this? AHI-3000 (talk) 23:17, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - I don't like any of the names, actually. And looking over List of fictional parasites, this just gets worse. The best I can come up with at the moment, is :Category:Fictional parasitic creatures, but even that isn't great. Part of the problem is the inclusion criteria is very broad, and based merely off of an attribute. But what does it mean to be "parasitic"? This could include a far ranging group, including characters who engage in magical necromantic "energy drain" of their victims, or even describing a telepathic dominator's relationship with their "host"/dominated target. I think this meets the criteria of WP:BEFORECAT/WP:CLN, and should be a List, not a category. So: Delete. - jc37 01:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment "But what does it mean to be "parasitic"" Per the main artice Parasitism: "a close relationship between species, where one organism, the parasite, lives on or inside another organism, the host, causing it some harm, and is adapted structurally to this way of life" ... "Parasites reduce host fitness by general or specialised pathology, that ranges from parasitic castration to modification of host behaviour." The article sites Count Dracula as the key example of a fictional parasite, as "The whole point of vampirism is sucking other people's blood—living at other people's expense" Dimadick (talk) 01:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Which is just too broad for categorization. Do you really suggest that we should include magical supernatural creatures like vampires or zombies, aliens, mutants, mutates, etc.? This just seems better as a list to clarify all of this info - which I'll note that List of fictional parasites, doesn't. - jc37 01:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose I agree with with Marcocapelle that species and individual characters belong to different category trees. Dimadick (talk) 01:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Execution sites in England and Wales to :Category:Execution sites in the United Kingdom

:Nominator's rationale: Only one category in this. If needed, there can be a seperate one made for Wales. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Origin stories in fiction and purge. (non-admin closure) —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 15:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Origin stories}}

:Nominator's rationale: Is this really a defining category? This has recently been added to several film articles related to pop culture IPs, particularly films about characters' origin stories, but most of them have a WP:RECENTISM bias and it has been removed from others. There are only two other articles about specific origin stories beyond this parent subject (those being for Batman and Superman), and no inclusion of other literary origins or even the basis of these works. This feels to me like an WP:Overcategorization issue. The parent article on this subject makes little to no mention of the works presently included in this cat, anyway. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

• Selectively upmerge per nom, this is unavoidably going to lead to WP:OR. But move Origin story, Origin of Superman and Origin of Batman to :Category:Origins. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• :Oppose moving :Origin of Superman and :Origin of Batman into :Category:Origins, given Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles (see the part of confusing fiction for reality). Neutral on the rest of the proposal. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 06:23, 11 December 2024 (UTC) (fixed links at 15:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC))

::* Ok, that is a good point I hadn't thought of. Then either delete, or rename to :Category:Origins in fiction and keep the three beforementioned articles only. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete Nominator is correct. Origin of what exactly? I can see what the creator might have intended, but this starts to become a WP:SUBJECTIVECAT when it starts going outside of comic superheroes/villains. At least half of fiction describes the origin of something. (The subcategories can find another home.) Jontesta (talk) 13:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:I think renaming to :Category:Origins in fiction (and purging) is a great idea. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 15:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::I can also get behind :Category:Origin stories in fiction. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:44, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rename to :Category:Origins in fiction per HouseBlaster' suggestion. We can specify some criteria to not include only films. Dimadick (talk) 01:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Origin stories in fiction, to match article name Origin story. - jc37 16:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Origin stories in fiction. It's an emerging subgenre of fiction that receives significant coverge. —Kaliforniyka^Hi! 18:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bailey family (Rugby) to :Category:Bailey family (rugby league)

:Nominator's rationale: Opposed on Speedy. Revising to the name of the specific rugby sport, as others in this category structure do. Also decapitalizing "rugby." Mike Selinker (talk) 03:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Nurg (talk) 21:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming

:** :Category:Abdullah political family to :Category:Abdullah family

:** :Category:Baby family (Canada) to :Category:Baby family

:** :Category:Balfour family of Whittingehame to :Category:Balfour family

:** :Category:Bassett family (Devon & Cornwall) to :Category:Bassett family

:** :Category:Beall family of Maryland to :Category:Beall family

:** :Category:Beverley family of Virginia to :Category:Beverley family

:** :Category:Black family (Canada) to :Category:Black family

:** :Category:Bland family of Virginia to :Category:Bland family

:** :Category:Bok family of Massachusetts to :Category:Bok family

:** :Category:Bolling family of Virginia to :Category:Bolling family

:** :Category:Braun family of Indiana to :Category:Braun family

:** :Category:Braxton family of Virginia to :Category:Braxton family

:** :Category:Bray family (Hampshire) to :Category:Bray family

:** :Category:Brockenbrough family of Virginia to :Category:Brockenbrough family

:** :Category:Burwell family of Virginia to :Category:Burwell family

:** :Category:Byrd family of Virginia to :Category:Byrd family

:** :Category:Calderon family of California to :Category:Calderon family

:** :Category:Campbell family (North Carolina) to :Category:Campbell family

:** :Category:Caperton family of Virginia and West Virginia to :Category:Caperton family

:** :Category:Carson family of North Carolina to :Category:Carson family

:** :Category:Chandler family (newspaper publishers) to :Category:Chandler family

:** :Category:Chavasse family (United Kingdom) to :Category:Chavasse family

:** :Category:Child family (English bankers) to :Category:Child family

:** :Category:Clarke family (Rhode Island) to :Category:Clarke family

:** :Category:Clerk family of Ghana to :Category:Clerk family

:** :Category:Cocke family of Virginia to :Category:Cocke family

:** :Category:Cooke family of Virginia to :Category:Cooke family

:** :Category:Custis family of Virginia to :Category:Custis family

:** :Category:Dandridge family of Virginia to :Category:Dandridge family

:** :Category:Dimitry Family (Creoles) to :Category:Dimitry family

:** :Category:Donovan musical family to :Category:Donovan family

:** :Category:Dorsey family of Maryland to :Category:Dorsey family

:** :Category:Easmon family (Sierra Leone) to :Category:Easmon family

:** :Category:Evans family (Paramount Pictures) to :Category:Evans family

:** :Category:Ezra family (Calcutta) to :Category:Ezra family

:** :Category:Fauntleroy family of Virginia to :Category:Fauntleroy family

:** :Category:Feeney family (Belfast) to :Category:Feeney family

:** :Category:Ferrer family (acting) to :Category:Ferrer family

:** :Category:Fitzhugh family of Virginia to :Category:Fitzhugh family

:** :Category:Folsom family of Alabama to :Category:Folsom family

:** :Category:Fritsche family (hockey) to :Category:Fritsche family

:** :Category:Fuller family (Canada) to :Category:Fuller family

:** :Category:Gallacher family (footballers) to :Category:Gallacher family

:** :Category:Gilman family of New Hampshire to :Category:Gilman family

:** :Category:Glenister acting family to :Category:Glenister family

:** :Category:Goodyear family (New York) to :Category:Goodyear family

:** :Category:Gorman family of Maryland to :Category:Gorman family

:** :Category:Greene family of Rhode Island to :Category:Greene family

:** :Category:Henson family (show business) to :Category:Henson family

:** :Category:Hesse family of Ghana to :Category:Hesse family

:** :Category:Hudson family (show business) to :Category:Hudson family

:** :Category:Hunter family of Virginia to :Category:Hunter family

:** :Category:Irons family (American football) to :Category:Irons family

:** :Category:Irving family (New Brunswick) to :Category:Irving family

:** :Category:Jacobs family (telecom) to :Category:Jacobs family

:** :Category:Keeble family (Tennessee) to :Category:Keeble family

:** :Category:Kent family of California to :Category:Kent family

:** :Category:Key family of Maryland to :Category:Key family

:** :Category:Kohler family of Wisconsin to :Category:Kohler family

:** :Category:Ladd family (show business) to :Category:Ladd family

:** :Category:Luttrell family (of Dunster) to :Category:Luttrell family

:** :Category:Marsh family of Western Australia to :Category:Marsh family

:** :Category:Massie family of Virginia to :Category:Massie family

:** :Category:Mata'utia family (rugby) to :Category:Mata'uita family

:** :Category:Maury family of Virginia to :Category:Maury family

:** :Category:McLane family of New Hampshire to :Category:McLane family

:** :Category:McStay family (footballers) to :Category:McStay family

:** :Category:Mercer family of Virginia to :Category:Mercer family

:** :Category:Montgomery family of Mississippi to :Category:Montgomery family

:** :Category:Morozov family (merchants) to :Category:Morozov family

:** :Category:Nesser family (American football) to :Category:Nesser family

:** :Category:Orthwein business family to :Category:Orthwein family

:** :Category:Osmond family (show business) to :Category:Osmond family

:** :Category:Page family of Virginia to :Category:Page family

:** :Category:Parsons family of West Virginia to :Category:Parsons family

:** :Category:Patterson family of Maryland to :Category:Patterson family

:** :Category:Pointer family (show business) to :Category:Pointer family

:** :Category:Pulitzer family (newspapers) to :Category:Pulitzer family

:** :Category:Pyne banking family to :Category:Pyne family

:** :Category:Randolph family of Virginia to :Category:Randolph family

:** :Category:Reed family (Pennsylvania and New Jersey) to :Category:Reed family

:** :Category:Riel family (Canada) to :Category:Riel family

:** :Category:Rodney family of Delaware to :Category:Rodney family

:** :Category:Sausmarez family (Guernsey) to :Category:Sausmarez family

:** :Category:Schumacher family (sports) to :Category:Schumacher family

:** :Category:Schwartz family (television) to :Category:Schwartz family

:** :Category:Staggers family of West Virginia to :Category:Staggers family

:** :Category:Stockton family of New Jersey to :Category:Stockton family

:** :Category:Swan musical family to :Category:Swan family

:** :Category:Taliaferro family of Virginia to :Category:Taliaferro family

:** :Category:Tayloe family of Virginia to :Category:Tayloe family

:** :Category:Vann family (Georgia) to :Category:Vann family

:** :Category:Wise family of Virginia to :Category:Wise family

:** :Category:Woodworth political family to :Category:Woodworth family

:Nominator's rationale: I don't see any other family categories with these names. Mike Selinker (talk) 01:27, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::There is another category of Morozov family, see :ru:Категория:Морозовы (боярский_род). Aronlee90 (talk) 03:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::I don't think the Russian Wikipedia establishes precedent here. This is the only one on the English Wikipedia. Mike Selinker (talk) 03:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::::But this is specifically the Merchant Morozovs, which is separate from the Boyar Morozovs, which could easily be made into an English category too. —Kaliforniyka^Hi! 21:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::Right... and when or if it is, we can rename with a disambiguator. Until then, we go with the simplest name. —Joeyconnick (talk) 04:01, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural oppose, this is just too many at the same time as we need to evaluate these one by one. Some may be unambiguous but others won't. A very easy example of ambiguity is Cooke. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Seems like it would be easy to just put a note at the top of any we have concerns about, as there is in :Category:Cooke family of Virginia: "The Cooke family of Virginia was a prominent political and military family in the U.S. state of Virginia." There are many hundreds of family categories with surnames that could be ambiguous to who is permitted in it, and the category text's job does a good job in taking care of it.--Mike Selinker (talk) 07:12, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• In fact I expect the large amount to be ambiguous, starting with Abdullah (name)#Surname. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose - I see no benefit here. While some of the families may unique names/high visibility notoriety, there is nothing wrong with the disambiguation by locale. The colonial Taliaferro family of Virginia will have little to do with any Taliaferros from Italy. Patterson, Evans, Campbell, etc are all such popular surnames that renaming them without the geographic indication could imply connections that don't actually exist between people with those surnames. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 15:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, if only because countless unrelated families around the world share the same surnames, so not disambiguating them would get too confusing. AHI-3000 (talk) 21:03, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. This needs to go on a case by case basis. Many are specific branches of established families or common names (eg Cooke, Fuller) that do require disambiguation. Due Diligence is needed. :Category:Balfour family of Whittingehame is a subcategory of the massive :Category:Clan Balfour so the proposed category :Category:Balfour family makes no sense. Likewise other Scottish ones like :Category:Campbell family (North Carolina), subset of :Category:Clan Campbell branches, should not be renamed :Category:Campbell family. Gallacher is a common anglicisation of the Irish Clan Ó Gallchobhair aka Gallagher family. Additionally :Category:Woodworth political family is specifically tied to the article Woodworth political family, as opposed to other notable people named Woodworth. :Category:Dimitry Family (Creoles) however should be changed to :Category:Dimitry family as this is not a common surname and Family is mistakenly capitalized. —Kaliforniyka^Hi! 21:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

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