Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 5#Category:Welsh-speaking writers

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:31, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Churches in Kazakhstan by location}}

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Kazakhstan by region to :Category:Churches in Kazakhstan

:Nominator's rationale: Multiple redundant layers Mason (talk) 23:58, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, redundant category layers with one subcategory each. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 06:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
• Merge Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 10:13, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Academic staff of the Technical University of Berlin to :Category:Academic staff of Technische Universität Berlin

:Nominator's rationale: The main category was already renamed (Technical University of Berlin is a misnomer and a mistranslation) SFBB (talk) 23:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename WP:C2D. NLeeuw (talk) 06:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• Rename and redirect. – Fayenatic London 09:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Technical University of Berlin alumni to :Category:Technische Universität Berlin alumni

:Nominator's rationale: the main article was already renamed SFBB (talk) 23:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

::I think you forgot the stubs to the rename. And I think that these could be speedied. Mason (talk) 23:57, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Speedy rename WP:C2D. NLeeuw (talk) 06:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

::::::Note: I had made a blooper with the rename request. Just corrected it. SFBB (talk) 21:28, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• Rename and redirect. – Fayenatic London 09:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Technical University of Berlin to :Category:Technische Universität Berlin

:Nominator's rationale: Main article was already renamed SFBB (talk) 23:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename WP:C2D. NLeeuw (talk) 06:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting merging :Category:Fraternities and sororities based in Indianapolis to :Category:Fraternities and sororities in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: Delete Merge; as far as I can see, there are no other "by state" categories for fraternities and sororities and, from my understanding, these can have multiple chapters in multiple states. Updated: I realized merging is the better option than outright deleting the category.Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Hardly any originates from Indianapolis. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
• Merge As a member of WP Fraternities and Sororities, I find this oddly specific and not needed. Rublamb (talk) 08:11, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Oratorio and passion librettists by nationality to :Category:Oratorio and passion librettists

:* Propose merging :Category:Operetta librettists by nationality to :Category:Operetta librettists

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to have this category with only one (or two) nationalities in it, when the parent categories are very empty. Mason (talk) 22:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Mistresses of British royalty. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Mistresses of Charles Edward Stuart}}

:Nominator's rationale: Delete; only two articles. Also, I don't think this fits with "British royalty" since Charles Edward Stewart was born well after his grandfather was dethroned. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom, though I would not oppose merging to :Category:Mistresses of British royalty either. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• :@Marcocapelle, after delving into further categories, I agree that the right course would be merge with :Category:Mistresses of British royalty. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:34, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Universities in West Africa}}

:Nominator's rationale: :Category:Universities and colleges in Africa not categorized this way. Gjs238 (talk) 14:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. All are already in :Category:Universities and colleges in Africa by country; there is no need for an arbitrary regional cat tree. NLeeuw (talk) 19:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Besides currently it almost entirely overlaps with :Category:Universities in Ghana. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:34, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Battles in Bohemia}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:MILMOS#BATTLESIN. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 3#Category:Battles by location, and in 2021 Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 April 13#Category:Battles on Czech lands. All items are already in :Category:Battles of the Austro-Prussian War (which might be worth putting in :Category:Military history of the Czech Republic?) or :Category:Battles involving Bohemia, more specifically :Category:Battles of the Hussite Wars. NLeeuw (talk) 12:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge/rename as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Sport in the Middle East to :Category:Sport in West Asia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Motorsport in the Middle East to :Category:Motorsport in West Asia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Sports mass media in the Middle East to :Category:Sports mass media in West Asia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Association football in the Middle East to :Category:Association football in West Asia

:* Propose renaming :Category:International association football competitions in the Middle East to :Category:International association football competitions in West Asia

:* Propose renaming :Category:International association football competitions in the Middle East by host to :Category:International association football competitions in West Asia by host

:Nominator's rationale: West Asia and the Middle East largely overlap, so we do not need both categories. We already have categories for South Asia, Central Asia, East Asia, and Southeast Asia. Therefore, it makes more sense to keep the West Asia category and eliminate the "Middle East" category. This would align better with the existing geographic categorization. Aldij (talk) 08:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 19:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Merge :Category:Sport in the Middle East to :Category:Sport in West Asia or reverse merge, Middle East and West Asia are almost entirely overlapping concepts. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Merge all per nomination; however, I recommend keeping a category redirect so that HotCat and bot edits can assist editors still adding these categories because "Middle East" would still be a term that is commonly used. -2pou (talk) 17:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:American promotions teams and stables to :Category:American professional wrestling teams and stables by promotion

:Nominator's rationale: Current title looks a little odd in my opinion. ★Trekker (talk) 07:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:34, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Ancient culture of Pakistan}}

:Nominator's rationale: delete, no other modern countries have a category like this, and the two articles are also quite unconnected. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

::Delete Unlike such categories as :Category:Prehistoric Pakistan, this is anachronistic on principle. We categorize ancient culture by culture or region, not by modern-day countries. Neither article even belongs — one article is a historical era, and the other is a site dated to the early modern period. They are already in other subcategories of the applicable parents. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:49, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Weak delete, given that we've also got :Category:Ancient Indian culture but no Ancient Indian culture or Ancient culture of India, even if there is an WP:UNSOURCED Outline of ancient India#Culture in ancient India and a Music in ancient India. If we were to broaden the scope to Indian subcontinent, as Ancient scripts of the Indian subcontinent does, for example, this could reasonably included "ancient Pakistan" without too narrowly referring to "India", suggesting we only mean the territory of the modern Republic of India, but "sneakily" including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh etc. in that definition. Science and technology in ancient India redirects to History of science and technology on the Indian subcontinent, so I'm not the first to suggest such a broadening. Then again, that has to be discussed largely within the article space before the category space can follow suit. NLeeuw (talk) 13:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• :[insert joke about space suits here]. NLeeuw (talk) 13:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:34, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Violence in Palestine (region)}}

:Nominator's rationale: There's another category created before. See :Category:Violence in the Palestinian territories. -- Mhhossein ^talk 06:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. Palestine (region) is not the same as the Palestinian territories. The Palestinian territories consist of only two parts of the Palestine region: the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. --Aldij (talk) 06:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• :*Withdrawn. --Mhhossein ^talk 06:38, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Aldij. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:03, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:41, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Ondrej Nepela Memorial templates}}

:Nominator's rationale: This is exactly the same as a recently deleted category from Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_May_27#Category:Nepela_Memorial, except that category was created in April 2024 and this one was created in 2008, and this category also includes only one template instead of four. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

::Comment {{user|Bgsu98}} removed the only member, Template:Nepela Memorial, without explanation. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:03, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Yes, this category is empty now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:48, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Amateur sport in Kazakhstan}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Football in the regions of Kazakhstan}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Football in Kazakhstan by region}}

:* Propose merging :Category:Football clubs in Kazakhstan by region to :Category:Football clubs in Kazakhstan

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Football clubs in Akmola Region}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Football clubs in Kokshetau}}

:Nominator's rationale: Numerous redundant category layers for a single region Mason (talk) 02:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, but honestly I would go two steps further and also nominate :Category:Football clubs in Akmola Region and :Category:Football clubs in Kokshetau for deletion (no need to merge, the two articles are already in the parents trees anyway). Marcocapelle (talk) 04:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, support extra nominees by Marcocapelle. NLeeuw (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

:* I tagged the two additional categories now. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:30, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

:*:Listed. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

:*::Also support the additional noms. Thanks Marco for finding them. Mason (talk) 22:52, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Mosques in Libya by city to :Category:Mosques by city and :Category:Mosques in Libya

:Nominator's rationale: Dual Upmerge for now. There's no need to have a redundant category like this. Mason (talk) 02:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Upmerge for now without prejudice per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Welsh-speaking writers to :Category:Welsh-language writers

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories. I didn't speedy this because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. Mason (talk) 01:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

::Delete per Laundry and Marco. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

• Just delete, assuming the header is right about these are English-language writers. Being able to speak Welsh but not write in Welsh is a non-defining characteristic of a writer. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Delete What langauge one speaks is almost always a trivial characteristic. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. What language one speaks is not always a trivial characteristic, and certainly not when it's a minority language; that is a monoglot's view. However, I accept that there are few writers who speak but don't write in Welsh. What would make sense is to ensure that any entry that is in both categories is present in Category:Anglo-Welsh writers, which is the normal way of describing Welsh writers who do not speak/write in Welsh. The latter are, in a sense, the odd ones out. Please make sure this is listed at the relevant Wikiprojects. Deb (talk) 07:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• :The intersection between being able to speak a language and the occupation of writing not a defining intersection. Mason (talk) 22:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• ::That depends on many things. Again, your statement sounds like a monoglot view. Deb (talk) 08:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
• Just delete per Marco and Laundry. NLeeuw (talk) 19:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. Discussion of the categorization of :Category:Geography of the Dutch East Indies can take place at Category talk:Geography of the Dutch East Indies. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:37, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Geography by former colony to :Category:Geography by former country

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. It's not necessary to distinguish this level of granularity of what kind of former entity it is (colony versus former country) Mason (talk) 00:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, or possibly delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. One could argue that a former colony is not a former country, it still exists but became meanwhile independent. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per Marcocapelle. The Dutch East Indies were never a "country" in the sense of an autonomous (let alone sovereign) state, unlike Suriname (Kingdom of the Netherlands) and the Netherlands Antilles from 1954 to 1975/2010. (These might be compared to the status of the United States of Indonesia / Republik Indonesia within the 1949–1956 Netherlands-Indonesia Union, which, other than a shared monarch, granted essentially full sovereignty to both countries; but that's after the DEI were already dissolved in 1949). Merging would place the DEI in a category where it doesn't belong. Current parents :Category:Dutch East Indies and :Category:Geography of Indonesia suffice. NLeeuw (talk) 13:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per Nederlandse Leeuw. --Aldij (talk) 15:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:30, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Imperial Roman admirals to :Category:Ancient Roman admirals

:* Propose merging :Category:Imperial Roman generals to :Category:Ancient Roman generals

:* Propose merging :Category:Imperial Roman soldiers to :Category:Ancient Roman soldiers

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Imperial Roman military personnel}}

:Nominator's rationale: Merge/Purge (the bzyatine category). There's no need to create this parent category of Imperial Roman Foo. It just serves to isolate Byzantine and Ancient Roman child categories from other former nations. See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_September_27#Category:Romans_who_received_the_grass_crown for a recent conversation about naming of Roman categories. Mason (talk) 00:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not strongly against this. Just as :Category:Roman consuls is split into :Category:Imperial Roman consuls and :Category:Roman Republican consuls, so are the categories for military figures. If those categories need to be merged, the categories for consuls should be merged as well. If you feel the need to merge the consul categories as well, I won't argue with you any further. Kirschtaria (talk) 02:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• I am not against it as a matter of principle, just noting that the problem (if it is a problem) is far more widespread, e.g. :Category:People from the Roman Empire and :Category:Military of the Roman Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• :Yep, as I starting tagging, I realized that it's definitely a wider spread issue. But we have to start somewhere that's manageable. Mason (talk) 22:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. The "Ancient" part clarifies that the scope is until 476 CE, and that anything "Imperial Roman" after that is better understood as "Byzantine". NLeeuw (talk) 13:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

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