Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 17

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Gold ground paintings. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:45, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Paintings on gold backgrounds to :Category:Gold objects

:Nominator's rationale: Is this really defining? Mason (talk) 14:35, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• Strong keep Put simply - yes it IS DEFINING. Whyever not? Strongly oppose the merge target too. Listifying would be better than a bad merge. These are NOT "gold objects", but made of wood, plaster etc with a tiny amount of gold leaf, though this has a dramatic effect on their appearance. Johnbod (talk) 14:41, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep and move to :Category:Gold-ground paintings for consistency with our article Gold ground, and remove List of gold glass portraits from the category. Ham II (talk) 15:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• ::I'd accept that, but I think the term Gold ground is not very familiar to the general reader, so would prefer it stays where it is. Johnbod (talk) 19:04, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• :::As written it sounds more like a description of painting with a specific color background. Honestly, I probably woundn't have nominated it if it were called gold-ground, as that at least makes it a little clearer than this is an actual thing rather than a categorization by color. I think we could also move the category higher up to paintings by medium or something like that. Mason (talk) 21:48, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• I'd also say that :Category:Gold objects already has 11 sub-cats, some very big, and 106 articles, so diffusion is very good. Johnbod (talk) 19:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per Johnbod. Of course it is defining. Obvious what makes these works stand-out from other paintings. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Gold-ground paintings per Ham II. I realize that the new title is not "very familiar to the general reader", but our titling WP:CRITERIA call for the title to be recognizable to someone {{tq|familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area}}, not someone on the street. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 19:23, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

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• Rename to :Category:Gold ground paintings per above. Weakly prefer "gold ground" with a space rather than a dash since the article says both forms can be used as an adjective and that directly matches the article. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• Good point. I prefer renaming without a dash, too. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Mass media in Suffolk County, Massachusetts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant category layer. Everything is already in some other subcat of all relevant parents. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:23, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 03:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Libraries in Suffolk County, Massachusetts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Useless category layer. Move :Category:Boston Public Library down to :Category:Libraries in Boston (the main article is already in that category), and then merge :Category:Libraries in Boston up to :Category:Libraries in Greater Boston * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Restructure per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Tunnels in Suffolk County, Massachusetts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Useless category layer. The one entry is already in :Category:Tunnels in Boston. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 03:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Lighthouses in Massachusetts. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 03:07, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Lighthouses in Suffolk County, Massachusetts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Useless category layer. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support in principle per nom, but merge to :Category:Lighthouses in Massachusetts. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:30, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|New Caledonian tennis players}}

:* Propose merging :Category:New Caledonian male tennis players to :Category:French male tennis players and :Category:New Caledonian sportsmen

:* Propose merging :Category:New Caledonian female tennis players to :Category:French female tennis players and :Category:New Caledonian sportswomen

:Nominator's rationale: Not sure about this category but, regardless, these players play for France. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

::Comment: Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all these non-mainland former territories/colonies of France now part of France itself? If so, then New Caledonia sportspeople are all of French nationality. In which case, shouldn't :Category:New Caledonian sportspeople not be named :Category:Sportspeople from New Caledonia or something similar? Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

:::This name change would apply to all categories in :Category:Sportspeople from Overseas France if that were the case. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

:::* According to Overseas France, in 1999 a New Caledonian citizenship was established in addition to the French citizenship which is kept in parallel, along with the European citizenship. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

:::*:@Marcocapelle, ah I see. But, in case of the tennis players, they do represent France so dual merge to the target categories would make sense. Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:13, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep all. They form part of a hierarchy or a web of categories. 188.211.233.131 (talk) 08:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per Marcocapelle. 121.202.28.169 (talk) 11:55, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:53, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Bus stations in Suffolk County, Massachusetts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant category layer. This could technically be populated further by adding Wonderland station, but even after doing so there still really isn't enough content to keep. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:30, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: I moved some articles that were incorrectly categorized under Boston, so this category now has 5 pages in it. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• : Shouldn't :Category:Silver Line (MBTA) stations be a subcat of this one? It looks to me like the entire Silver Line route is in Suffolk County, which would get it down to two subcats and one article. But I guess that's enough to keep, so I am going to withdraw this. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• ::Currently all Silver Line stations are in Suffolk County, but an extension into Everett (Middlesex County) is planned for the next few years, so it's better to have it stay under :Category:Bus stations in Massachusetts. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:23, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:54, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Bus rapid transit in Massachusetts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only contains Silver Line (MBTA) and Urban Ring Project. Whether the former actually counts as "bus rapid transit" is disputed so it shouldn't be categorized as such in the spirit of WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. That leaves only one entry which isn't enough to warrant a category. Move Urban Ring Project to :Category:Proposed bus rapid transit in the United States * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• {{comment}} I don't necessarily object to deletion, but there needs to be a broader CfD across these state-level categories. Currently, 15 of the 27 state categories have 3 or less items in them, so it wouldn't make sense to delete just this one. Regarding the Silver Line, you are correct that there is dispute whether it meets certain technical criteria of BRT, but it was intended as BRT and always discussed in that context, so it should be categorized as such. It's a very different case than the inherently subjective criteria discussed at SUBJECTIVECAT. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• : Yet that means 23 states don't have a category (soon to be 24 because I am going to speedy merge one as containing only the eponymous article). So it's not like deleting this would break some ironclad convention. {{pb}} I think I would see your point about categorizing the silver line if there were enough other things to categorize it with, but there aren't really, so it's a functionally isolated, vague, small category. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. The Urban Ring Project is still kept in :Category:MBTA bus so it does not entirely fall off the radar. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:56, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:20th century in Tegucigalpa to :Category:History of Tegucigalpa

:* Propose deleting :Category:Centuries in Tegucigalpa

:Nominator's rationale: merge, with only three articles we do not need three category layers. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:20, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge/delete per nom. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep I've added 4 more and created/populated :Category:21st century in Tegucigalpa.--User:Namiba 13:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• Withdraw this nomination. It seems like contemporary history mainly revolves around sports, that will be interesting to see for any future 22nd-century Wikipedia readers. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:46, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Subnational beauty pageants. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:57, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Local Beauty pageants}}

:Nominator's rationale: per :Commons:Commons:Categories for discussion/2021/01/Category:Local Beauty pageants Estopedist1 (talk) 06:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

• It is not yet clear what the rationale of the nomination is. Besides, this is largely a container category so if there is objection to categorizing local beauty pageants the subcategories should be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Estopedist1}} Marcocapelle (talk) 07:57, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

:*:@Marcocapelle: all subcategories are already properly categorized under concrete country, e.g. :Category:Miss Teen USA state pageants‎ already belongs to :Category:Beauty pageants in the United States to Estopedist1 (talk) 08:04, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

:*:* {{ping|Estopedist1}} I am puzzled now. If you do not object categorizing local beauty pageants as such, then what is your objection to the local beauty pageants parent category? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:15, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

:*:*:@Marcocapelle: "Category:Local Beauty pageants" is just redudant layer category. You are a categorizing specialist and probably understand that categories like "historic/former Foo" or "local Foo" are fuzzy and misleading. A citation from Commons discussion: "Using "local" to indicate geographic location is dependent on point-of-reference and therefore inherently inappropriate as a category description." Estopedist1 (talk) 08:33, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

:*:*:* {{ping|Estopedist1}} it seems you object to "local" in the category name rather than to the category's existance. What about renaming it to :Category:Subnational beauty pageants similar to :Category:Subnational legislators? Marcocapelle (talk) 11:46, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

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• Rename to :Category:Subnational beauty pageants per Marcocapelle. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus with no prejudice against speedy renomination. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:59, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:Propose merging both :Category:Heads of government convicted of war crimes and :Category:Heads of state convicted of war crimes into :Category:Politicians convicted of war crimes

:Nominators' rationale: These two subcategories may have a bit too much overlap in scope anyways, especially in some countries where the national leader is technically both the head of government and head of state simultaneously. AHI-3000 (talk) 06:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

• Alternative: rename :Category:Heads of government convicted of war crimes to :Category:Prime ministers convicted of war crimes and purge presidents. That will avoid the overlap effectively too. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:24, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
• :{{ping|Marcocapelle}} But does the specific office/title of a politician matter here in this context? AHI-3000 (talk) 19:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
• :* In this case I would say so, since these are usually the ultimate decision makers. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:29, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Merge or rename (or something else entirely)?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:16, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: No clear consensus one way or the other.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Justarandomamerican (talk) Have a good day! 14:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:21, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Kara no Kyōkai to :Category:The Garden of Sinners

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:CATNAME: "Names of topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a Wikipedia article." Kara no Kyōkai was moved to The Garden of Sinners years ago, so the category should be also moved. Mika1h (talk) 13:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per WP:C2D, this could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:40, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above --Lenticel ^(talk) 03:45, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: wrong forum (see Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Categories to request the creation of a category). (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 03:02, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose further categorisation of :Category:Shopping centres in Hong Kong to :Category:Shopping centres on Hong Kong Island, :Category:Shopping centres in Kowloon, :Category:Shopping centres in New Kowloon and :Category:Shopping centres in the New Territories

:Nominator's rationale: Subcategorising along the four statutorily-defined areas of the country just as some other similar category trees for this country, e.g., roads. 58.177.160.150 (talk) 11:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment, creating new subcategories normally does not require discussion, and I do not see why it would require discussion in this particular case. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:21, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Winsunited Cup to :Category:FIFA Series

:Nominator's rationale: Considering that the Winsunited Cup has somehow been merged as part of the FIFA Series, then I would have suggested that this category be renamed as :Category:FIFA Series. ManiacOfSport (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment This category is empty. I tagged it yesterday CSD C1 but the tag was removed and now it's at CFD. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:28, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 12:45, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per Liz as empty category. GiantSnowman 12:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete as empty, don't see any valid targets to justify this category. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Actually, 2024 FIFA Series and FIFA Series could be in :Category:FIFA Series, but that isn't enough articles to justify this being created right now. Wait a few years until there's more editions to add to the category. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:39, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Opponents of tea drinking. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:20, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Tea critics to :Category:Opponents of tea drinking

:Alternative A: rename, these aren't critics, they are just against drinking tea.

:Alternative B: delete per WP:OPINIONCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support A, adding :Category:Food activists as a parent. Re B, listifying would be better than deletion. Johnbod (talk) 13:31, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Nature gods in Hinduism}}

:Nominator's rationale: This category was created with main article as Prajaptis. :Category:Prajapatis already exits. Prajapatis are not nature gods per se. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 04:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:30, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 03:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom --Ekabhishek^talk 18:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Objectivism (Ayn Rand) to :Category:Objectivism

:Nominator's rationale: Objectivism was moved from Objectivism (Ayn Rand) back in 2020, but the category has remained as it was before then. Wehpudicabok (talk) 03:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:17, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Russian war crimes in Estonia to :Category:Soviet war crimes in Estonia

:Nominator's rationale: All articles in the category are about acts by either the RSFSR or the USSR. CJ-Moki (talk) 02:25, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• Rename per above. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. --Estopedist1 (talk) 13:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. --Lenticel ^(talk) 03:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 06:37, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

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