Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 May 3#Category:Template shortcuts

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: malformed. These qualify for C2D per Historic Environment Scotland, so I will nominate them for speedy renaming. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:29, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

• Historic Scotland properties in Argyll and Bute
• Historic Scotland properties in Dumfries and Galloway
• Historic Scotland properties in North Ayrshire
• Historic Scotland properties in Orkney
• Historic Scotland properties in the Scottish Borders
• Historic Scotland properties in Shetland
• Historic Scotland properties in South Ayrshire
• All of these are to be renamed inline with the :Category:Historic Scotland properties in Aberdeenshire category rename. Historic Scotland is the old/previous name of Historic Environment Scotland. Paul Gault — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atomdestroyers (talk • contribs) 23:24, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Historic Environment Scotland properties in Aberdeenshire. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:12, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Historic Scotland properties in Aberdeenshire to :Category:Historic Environment Scotland properties in Aberdeenshire

:Nominator's rationale: Historic Scotland is the old/previous name of Historic Environment Scotland. Atomdestroyers (talk) 23:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:12, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Chiara Siracusa songs}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only contains redirects, and no other known existing articles to populate this category with, therefore the category is effectively redundant. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 18:42, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Grk1011 (talk) 18:44, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:04, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:12, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Michalis Hatzigiannis songs}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one known entry, which is itself a redirect, making this category effectively redundant. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 18:39, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Grk1011 (talk) 18:44, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:04, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename/merge as nominated. I have discounted the comments by a sockpuppet. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:20, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose Renaming :Category:United States Citizens detained by immigration officials in the US to :Category:American citizens detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

::* Proposing Merging :Category:Detention and Deportation of United States Citizens in the United States to :Category:United States Citizens detained by immigration officials in the US

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:CATNAME

:These two categories hold the same articles so we just need one. Creating a clear and NPOV name is challenging though since these incidents don't involve being "arrested" in any conventional sense, not all of the people were deported, and none of the agents have been charged or convicted of crimes, so "detained" seemed like the only term left. (Totally open to alternative renames though.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 17:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::*First, I completely agree they should be merged, and am not sure how I ended up creating two different cats that are so similar. I'll go through the diffs to try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

::*Second, I agree that {{tq|Creating a clear and NPOV name is challenging}}. I made a suggestion here, but it's even longer.

::*Third, I'm not sure I agree that the title should get as specific as {{tq|by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement}} vs. something like {{tq|by U.S. immigration officials}} because in some of the instances (e.g. Detention of Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez) the arrest and detention were by FL highway patrol and then a local jail as far as I can tell. In other cases (not in this category, but related) all agencies are denying that they participated (e.g. Rumeysa Ozturk) but there were clearly law enforcement offers acting as immigration officials. What do you think?

::i know you're a dog 20:22, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Beyond those two examples, even internal ICE functions are outsourced to for-profit operators so GEO Group operates many of their detention centers and Eastern Air Express flies many of their deportations. I'm not sure if it's precise to call employees of other agencies and private companies "immigration officials". But my name is also imperfect since the citizens are all being detained upon behalf of ICE but not necessarily by ICE. (I'm good with either name, or a different one, so long as we go down to one category.) RevelationDirect (talk) 21:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Categories have been emptied by User:Some1 before this discussion was able to conclude. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:03, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:11, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Template shortcuts}}

:Nominator's rationale: Currently only contains 2 pages which are rightly and adequately categorised in :Category:Date-computing templates based on current time, and do not meet the stated inclusion criteria. I already removed {{tl|Prod-nn}} and {{tl|Checked sockpuppet}} as not belonging here either. This category was previously nominated by User:SMcCandlish at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_March_20#Category:Template_shortcuts for renaming to {{c|Wrapper templates}}, which did not achieve consensus. That target name was independently created later; I did not find any contents there that had been moved from here, nor was I able to trace what happened to any other previous contents from here. – Fayenatic London 15:54, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Delete: It seems reasonable for maintenance purposes to categorize actual redirects (whether "shortcuts" or not) that are to template namespace, but isn't this already done somewhere, using an rcat template? I don't see any point, though, in trying to categorize "shortcuts" since people disagree on what qualifies. Pretty often I find {{tlx|R from shortcut}} on redirects that are not actually shorter than the real page names they resolve to, so I remove that rcat template. I can't see a maint. purpose in trying to categorize redirs by a term people subjectively disagree about or misinterpret, especially since functionally (i.e. for maint. purposes) there is no difference between a "shortcut" redir and a non-"shortcut" redir. Plus, this cat. is simply not used, so even if a purpose could be imagined for it, it's not serving that purpose and is just chaff.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:01, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:13, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Subtemplates of template sigfig to :Category:Subtemplates of mathematical function templates

:Nominator's rationale: Category is not needed for just 2 subpages. – Fayenatic London 14:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Note: if not merged, should be renamed Category:Subtemplates of Template Significant figures, following the pattern at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_template_categories?from=Su]. – Fayenatic London 14:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:11, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lists of festivals in North America by region to :Category:Lists of festivals in North America by first-level administrative country subdivision

:Nominator's rationale: rename, more accurate and aligned with :Category:Lists of people by first-level administrative country subdivision. By the way for both of them I would also be okay with dropping "first-level" and/or "administrative". If other editors feel it can be shorter I will tag the people category too. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split as nominated. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:13, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Germany to :Category:Lists of populated places in Germany and :Category:Germany geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Japan to :Category:Lists of populated places in Japan and :Category:Japan geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in South Korea to :Category:Lists of populated places in South Korea and :Category:South Korea geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Malaysia to :Category:Lists of populated places in Malaysia and :Category:Malaysia geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Nepal to :Category:Lists of populated places in Nepal and :Category:Nepal geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in New Zealand to :Category:Lists of populated places in New Zealand and :Category:New Zealand geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Poland to :Category:Lists of populated places in Poland and :Category:Poland geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Russia to :Category:Lists of populated places in Russia and :Category:Russia geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Sri Lanka to :Category:Lists of populated places in Sri Lanka and :Category:Sri Lanka geography-related lists

:* Propose splitting :Category:Lists of places in Taiwan to :Category:Lists of populated places in Taiwan and :Category:Taiwan geography-related lists

:Nominator's rationale: split, it is generally far more common to use "populated places" instead of "places" and using both in parallel is merely confusing. Places that are not populated can simply go in geography. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:*What about :Category:Lists of places by country? --Altenmann >talk 13:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::* There are only few countries under it, confirming the limited use of "places" in general. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:11, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:10, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Ascalon in fiction to :Category:Works set in Ascalon

:Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent to the Works tree. Normally "in fiction" categories contain "works set in", "fictional people" and "fictional locations". But in the above case there are only works. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Support Given the current contents. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:37, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:14, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Hungarian people of Caribbean descent to :Category:Hungarian people by descent

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in here, which isn't helpful for navigation ^SMason_Garrison 05:17, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Just delete, the subcategory is already in :Category:Hungarian people of North American descent. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:10, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:21st-century anarchists to :Category:Anarchists

:Nominator's rationale: selective merge. There's really not a need to diffuse by century for a modern political orientation ^SMason_Garrison 04:45, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

• Just delete, the articles are already in the tree of :Category:Anarchists by nationality. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:36, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• Keep, I'd argue that there are enough differences between people who are described as "anarchist" between centuries that this is actually a useful distinction. I know there's some overlap, but it seems the same to me as 21st-century writers and 20th-century writers. Jessamyn (my talk page) 19:44, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:* We divide writers by century because we can go back to antiquity and middle ages. If writing would have started in the 19th century we would probably also not diffuse them by century. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

• Keep, for pretty much the same reasons as above. I would add that it's a good idea to organize by centuries to signify different eras and who lived during that century. We would even do the same with religions, even ones that started in the 19th century.Suite1408 (talk) 12:12, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:10, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Ethnic Hungarian people to :Category:Hungarian people

:Nominator's rationale: redundant category layer that overlaps with Hungarian diaspora ^SMason_Garrison 02:59, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose, I have further populated the category, in its new state it might stay. It is certainly not diaspora anyway, it is a matter of shifting country borders in the course of history. Note that the main article is Hungarians so the category might also be renamed to :Category:Hungarians and become a parent category of :Category:Hungarian people. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:29, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

:

• Meanwhile I think the latter solution is even better than just keep, it is a kind of WP:C2D and :Category:History of the Hungarians can be added to it as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:53, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

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• {{yo|Smasongarrison}} Thoughts? HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:56, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• :Happy to keep now that it's populated. Thanks Marco!^SMason_Garrison 04:16, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::Comment: This seems to overlap with :Category:Hungarian minorities in Europe ^SMason_Garrison 04:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::* Interesting! I would suggest starting a fresh merge discussion for that. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::*:Definitely happy to let this close as keep, and then discuss in a followup. ^SMason_Garrison 14:25, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: prune of non-metaphors. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:16, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Metaphors referring to wolves}}

:Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SHAREDNAME. The articles are already in more appropriate wolves-related categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::Oppose This is part of a large animal metaphor tree. Jahaza (talk) 23:50, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::Oppose unless you want to delete the supercat :Category:Metaphors referring to animals (which I would also oppose), why pick on wolves. True, there are a one or two articles that you could argue to remove from the cat, such as Lone wolf terrorism, if you really want to, tho I wouldn't. Herostratus (talk) 02:23, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::Unsure about deletion, but certainly needs a purge as a number of the entries are not metaphors/idioms and make no sense being in this category. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:14, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:

• As nominator, I support purging too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
• Purge Seems like the minimum so that the category reflects the actual contents. (More broadly, I'm not totally sold on this whole category tree being defining.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:10, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

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