Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New England Revolution in international competition/archive1

{{pagelinks|New England Revolution in international competition}}

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{{Featured article tools|1=New England Revolution in international competition}}

:Nominator(s): Brindille1 (talk) 04:39, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

This article is about the New England Revolution's somewhat modest history in international competition. I took inspiration from a few other articles for this, including Burnley F.C. in European football. Brindille1 (talk) 04:39, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

• File:New England Revolution Bench before CCC Alajuelense match.jpg - Public Domain
• File:Morera-Soto-lda.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:BruceArena 20060511.jpg - CC BY 2.0
• File:Richie Williams NYRB.jpg - CC BY 2.0, source link needs to be fixed for WP:V
• All images have alt text though I'm quite skeptical with the alt text for Arena's.
• "Bruce Arena with during US Men's National Team training", grammatically incorrect, should be a quick fix.
• Here are my comments for now. Arconning (talk) 05:45, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Thank you @Arconning for the comments, I've addressed them. I've switched out the Richie Williams picture for a different one. Brindille1 (talk) 16:45, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::Pass per image review. :) Arconning (talk) 12:48, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

• Tables need row scopes.
• Tables need column scopes.
• Some cells in tables can be merged.
• "Bruce Arena with during US Men's National Team training" alt text makes no sense.
• All sources should be archived if they are online.
• Ping when done. History6042😊 (Contact me) 13:35, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Thank you @History6042 for the comments, I've addressed them. Brindille1 (talk) 16:45, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::Support. History6042😊 (Contact me) 16:49, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Overall comments

Maybe this is just because I don't watch all that much club soccer, so this is just a genuine question, but why does the article separate the concacaf competitions and the mls/liga mx competitions? Does "international competition" refer to the concacaf competition specifically?

Lead

• "which they have reached on three separate occasions" → unnecessary word IMO
• "In 2022, they lost to Pumas UNAM in penalty shootout after winning the first leg" → "in a penalty shootout"; also recommend linking Penalty shoot-out (association football)
• "They won the 2008 edition of their tournament" → "the tournament"?
• "final of the 2010 North American SuperLiga" → since this is not the name by which the competition was introduced, I would recommend avoiding the use of the full name in subsequent mentions

History

• By my reading, none of the exception clauses of MOS:YEARRANGE quite seem to be satisfied in the case of the subsection headers, so I would recommend changing to {{tq|First appearances in CONCACAF competitions (2003–2007)}} and {{tq|Return to CONCACAF competitions (2022–2024)}} (except, of course, in the case that you read it differently, in which case I'm happy with a simple explanation)
• "brought the aggregate score within one" → a link or brief explanation would assist unfamiliar readers with what an "aggregate score" is
• "and Daniel Hernández were sent off" → need a link or explanation to "sent off"; recommendation is just a link to Fouls and misconduct (association football)#Red card (dismissal)
• The last sentence of the first paragraph might benefit from a very brief explanation of the two-leg fixture format, if such an explanation is not given at the mention of "aggregate" above; I think the two-leg format could be very confusing to some readers, especially those without an interest in sports
• "scored a 90th minute free-kick, which sealed a 1–0 result" → link Free kick (association football) (and I don't believe, based on the convention in that article, that the hyphen is necessary)
• the phrase "their record-breaking 2021 season" is practically begging for a link to 2021 New England Revolution season
• Also, the above phrase (and the whole sentence which contains it) appears to be uncited as the next citation doesn't mention it
• "to face Pumas UNAM of Mexico" → I'd de-link "Mexico" per WP:OVERLINK, that's a major country in my mind (especially compared to Haiti, which is not linked at mention shortly before)
• "and the Revolution won leg 3–0" → a word missing here
• "in what would be the" → "in what was the" sounds much more natural to me here, WP:WOULDCHUCK (not a guideline, just an essay I tend to follow)
• "Revolution's five participations in the tournament" → "participations" sounds awkward to me, maybe "appearances"?
• "Because of this aggregate win, they advanced" → if you want, you could slim this wording down a bit by adding ", an aggregate win." to the end of the last sentence and starting this one at "They advanced to". 100% up to you on this
• "and the away leg 5-2" → en-dash on the scoreline

Other competitions

• "held initially in 2007" → "first held in 2007" sounds more natural to me
• "season, with general manager Craig Tornberg saying" → the present tense sounds odd to me - I would go for a semicolon after "season" and start back with "general manager Craig Tornberg said..." though feel free to rework as you see fit
• "second trophy, with their first"
• "The followed this up with two more home matches" → "They" - also, this sounds a little too informal to me
• "ending their participation in the tournament" → "eliminating them" for brevity, plus it eliminates the repetition with "participated" used in the next sentence
• "the match tied 1–1" → the teams tied, not the match
• "the title-deciding match" → "the championship" sounds like an easier way to say this
• "Morelia prevailed 2–1" → "Morelia won 2–1" since you used "prevailed" two sentences earlier
• "This would be the last SuperLiga match " → "This was the last..."
• "that was started in 2019
• "for the 2023 edition. In the 2023 edition, the Revolution" → repetition
• "the New York Red Bulls, and a 5–1 win" → not sure the comma is needed here
• "where they drew 1–1" → "where" sounds weird to me since you were talking about the team they were playing, not the stadium or something - if you want to keep the sentence structure the same I'd go for something like "against whom they drew"
• I don't really care one way or the other, but is there a reason why Williams gets a year in the caption and Arena doesn't?
• The fact that attendance is given in one table but not the other seems odd to me, though I guess attendance gets hard to add to tables on two-leg fixtures
• duplicate links of "Gillette Stadium" in the table seem excessive to me
• In the club and country table - {{flagicon|MEX}} Mexico does not strike me as the ideal way to do this - I think {{flagicon|MEX}} {{subst:nfa|Mexico}} would be best - and the link pointing to the NFA seems more appropriate given the context than a link pointing to the country itself, ditto for "United States" below. I am also not super convinced that all of the flags in all of the tables are necessary but I know it's convention for soccer at this point so I'm not blaming you on that

Nice work. Comments above - mostly grammar and wording, I have this watchlisted so no need to ping. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 04:35, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for the review and thorough comments. I've addressed comments in the article, and will respond to the other questions here.

:* "Why does the article separate the concacaf competitions and the mls/liga mx competitions? Does "international competition" refer to the concacaf competition specifically?

:** I don't see "International competition" as referring exclusively to the CONCACAF competition, although it makes sense to separate that one for a few reasons: it's more prestigious (allowing teams to qualify for the Club World Cup), more long-running, open to all leagues in the continent, and consistently requiring teams to qualify. Most (all?) analogous Good/Featured articles for European clubs adopt the same standard for official UEFA competitions as I did in this article- it seemed appropriate here as well.

:* "I don't really care one way or the other, but is there a reason why Williams gets a year in the caption and Arena doesn't?

:** The Williams picture is less clearly of a soccer coach- it shows him in his playing days. Felt relevant to clarify here to not give the impression he was a player manager. But if this is confusing I can easily change it to give years for both.

:* The fact that attendance is given in one table but not the other seems odd to me, though I guess attendance gets hard to add to tables on two-leg fixtures

:** Yes- in addition to the challenge of displaying this for two-legged fixtures, I suspect attendance data for the 2003 and 2006 CONCACAF competitions doesn't actually exist publically.

:Brindille1 (talk) 01:58, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

::Changes and explanations look good to me - happy to support. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:50, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

• "The club has taken part five times in international competitions organized by CONCACAF" - would it not be easier simply to say "The club has taken part five times in the CONCACAF Champions Cup (known as the CONCACAF Champions League between [whenever] and [whenever]"? "Competitions organised by CONCACAF sounds like it covers multiple totally different competitions, rather than (as far as I can see) the same one under different names
• "an annual competition between MLS and Liga MX" - I know it's kinda clear, but clarify that Liga MX is the top Mexican league
• That's what I got on the lead. Need to drop off now but will be back for more later..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:01, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
• "faced Liga Deportiva Alajuelense of Costa Rica, in an two-legged tie" - it should be a two-legged tie. I also don't think the comma before "in" is needed
• "to play their first home match at the Bermuda National Stadium" - it was their only home match in this tie so "first" is not needed
• "Two years later, the Revolution again qualified for CONCACAF competition" - I think "Two years later, the Revolution again qualified for the competition" works better
• "The Revolution competed in the second season; general manager Craig Tornberg saying" - either change the semi-colon to a comma or change "saying" to "said"
• "the club had turned down transfer offers from Nottingham Forest F.C. and FC Nantes." - maybe say in which countries these teams play.....?
• That's all I got! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
• :Thanks @ChrisTheDude. I've addressed these comments. Brindille1 (talk) 03:09, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
• Support - if you have any spare time and fancy taking a look at a very different soccer article, I currently have 1883 FA Cup final at FAC. If you don't have the time, no problem at all {{smiley}} -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:32, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

• Newspaper citations should use page numbers that reflect their actual locations, rather than what Newspapers.com assigns; e.g. Citaition 1 is from p. E5, not p. 89. This seems to onl be an issue for a handful of citations.
• Newspapers.com links should include {{para|via|{{var|Newspapers.com}}}}.
• Publications and/or publishers need to be wikilinked on the first use or on all uses, whichever is preferred.
• Several citations (MassLive and Boston Globe mostly) need to be marked with subscription-only access.
• MLS should not be shortened in citations.
• Citation 18: "MATCHDAY GUIDE" doesn't need to be all-caps.
• Citation 23 needs page numbers for
• Citations 25 and 26 should be switched to {{tl|cite press release}}.
• Citation 44 does not need "Staff" as the author, nor the "SPORTS" in the title.
• Perhaps the main "By season" table could have a column for citations instead of stacking four citations in the caption.
• Has there been a check for citeable material in books about MLS?

Mostly formatting. Will do some spotchecks soon. SounderBruce 04:47, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks @SounderBruce for the comments. I've made changes to address these, with a couples notes:

:* I've added citation columns (and page numbers) for the "By season" tables, which hopfully makes the information much more verifiable. I weighed a couple of options for the other tables, but per WP:NOTCITE, I've removed the general table-level citations. All of the information in the smaller tables is sourced from the "By season" tables that precede them, which satisfies "Cited elsewhere in the article".

:* I've done some checks for cite-able material, mostly in "The United States of Soccer" by Phil West. Is there any area of this article that's specifically lacking in information?

:Brindille1 (talk) 22:40, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

::Hi {{u|SounderBruce}}, how is this looking now? Gog the Mild (talk) 13:35, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

I'll probably get to this on Sunday. I have a FAC of my own that could use attention, either positive or negative, if you are so inclined. Hog Farm _Talk 03:05, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

• Wouldn't it be useful to indicate briefly at the beginning of the history section that the Revolution are a MLS team and were founded in whatever year they were founded?
• "Two years later, the Revolution again qualified for the competition, which had been rebranded to the CONCACAF Champions League, the name it would hold until the 2023 season." - ref placement issue, as the source supporting that they qualified for this is not located in a manner in which it is obvious that it is intended to support the first part of this sentence
• "This marked the first time an MLS team had lost to a team from the Caribbean and the first time a side from Trinidad had put up more than three goals against an MLS side" - the source states "Joe Public became the first Caribbean team to defeat a club from the United States in the history of CONCACAF club competitions ... the club from Trinidad also became the first Caribbean side to score as many as three goals in one match against a team from the United States". So should the first loss to a team from the Caribbean be clarified to the first such loss in CONCACAF competition, and the second claim can be broaded from Trinidad to Caribbean it looks like
• "it was reported that goalkeeper Đorđe Petrović would not participate in the match because the club had turned down transfer offers from English club Nottingham Forest F.C. and French club FC Nantes." - this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If they turned down the transfer offers and kept him on their team, how come this made it where he couldn't play?

This looks like it is in pretty good shape to me. Hog Farm _Talk 02:37, 2 June 2025 (UTC)