Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/City portals cloned from outline pages

:{{pagelinks|Portal:Barcelona}}

:{{pagelinks|Portal:Milan}}

:{{pagelinks|Portal:Prague}}

:{{pagelinks|Portal:Rio de Janeiro}}

:{{pagelinks|Portal:Stockholm}}

:{{pagelinks|Portal:Turin}}

Each of these six automated portals builds its lists of "selected articles" previews solely from an article called "Outline of <cityname>", of which it is therefore a redundant clone. That is because each outline page already has the preview facility built-in, make a specialised page of previews redundant. For more details of the built-in functions, see below.

As an example of how the outline pages are used in these portals, see this code for the "Selected area article" selection of Portal:Prague:

{{Box-header colour | Selected area article | color=Gold | mode=light }}

{{Transclude list item excerpt | 1=Outline of Prague | section= Areas of Prague | paragraphs=1-2 | files=1 | fileargs= | more= | errors= }}
{{Box-footer}}

Two of these portals (P:Milan & P:Prague) previously existed as old-style manual portals with sub-pages. In both cases, the old portal offered no selection or rotation or list of topics; each was just a static display. The righthand column table below links to the set of sub-pages.

The other four portals were have no non-automated version.

class="wikitable" style="font-size:92%" ! Portal !! Head article !! Outline page !!style="text-align:right"| Created !! Creator !! Last curated version (if it exists) !! Sub-pages (italicised if empty)
Portal:Barcelona	Barcelona	Outline of Barcelona	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Barcelona&oldid=851435865 18 July 2018‎]	{{user|Cote d'Azur}}	style="text-align:center"| —	Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Barcelona
Portal:Milan	Milan	Outline of Milan	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Milan&oldid=353149250 31 March 2010]	{{user|Theologiae}}	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal%3AMilan&oldid=849480802 9 July 2018]	Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Milan
Portal:Prague	Prague	Outline of Prague	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Prague&oldid=33727089 3 January 2006]	{{user|Adam s}}	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Prague&oldid=849937299 12 July 2018]	Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Prague
Portal:Rio de Janeiro	Rio de Janeiro	Outline of Rio de Janeiro	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Rio_de_Janeiro&oldid=852041106 26 July 2018‎]	{{user|Cote d'Azur}}	style="text-align:center"| —	Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Rio de Janeiro
Portal:Stockholm	Stockholm	Outline of Stockholm	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Stockholm&oldid=850281321 14 July 2018‎]	{{user|The Transhumanist}}	style="text-align:center"| —	Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Stockholm
Portal:Turin	Turin	Outline of Turin	style="text-align:right"| [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Turin&oldid=850274681 14 July 2018‎]	{{user|The Transhumanist}}	style="text-align:center"| —	Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Turin

Two newish features of the Wikimedia software means that the head article and/or outline page and any navboxes offer all the functionality which portals like these set out to offer. Both

features are available only to ordinary readers who are not logged in, but you can test them without logging out by right-clicking on a link, and the select "open in private window" (in Firefox) or "open in incognito window" (Chrome).

1. mouseover: on any link, mouseover shows you the picture and the start of the lead. So the preview-selected page-function of portals is redundant: something almost as good is available automatically on any navbox or other set of links.
   Try it by right-clicking on this link to any of the outline pages linked above, e.g. Outline of Barcelona
2. automatic imagery galleries: clicking on an image brings up an image gallery of all the images on that page. It's full-screen, so it's actually much better than a click-for-next image gallery on a portal, and it includes the captions used in in the article.
   Try it by right-clicking on this link to the article Barcelona, or any of the other articles above, and then click on any image to start the slideshow.

Similar features have been [https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/09/10/Wikipedia-app-new-navigation-features/ available since 2015 to users of Wikipedia's Android app].

These are all major cities, which in theory should be capable of meeeting the WP:POG requirement that portals should be about "broad subject areas, which are likely to attract large numbers of interested readers and portal maintainers". However, these redundant portals add no value for the reader.

Note that in recent weeks, at least ten other portals cloned from outline pages have been deleted at MFD: MFD:Portal:Cairo, MFD:Portal:Law enforcement, MFD:7 pseudo-portal forks of outline pages, MFD:Portal:Classical architecture.

So I propose that this portal and its sub-pages be deleted per WP:TNT, without prejudice to recreating a curated portal in accordance with whatever criteria the community may have agreed at that time. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

:add your keep/delete/comment here

• Delete. Good nomination! Totally wasn't about to nominate these today or anything lol –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 11:21, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
• :I suppose it is worth mentioning that Portal:Milan is based off of Portal:Dubai. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 11:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I concur with the analysis above by User:BrownHairedGirl and will comment in general on portals for big cities. The argument has been made too many times recently that a big city or a capital city is a broad subject area. What the portal guidelines state is that portals should be about broad subject areas that will attract large numbers of readers and portal maintainers. The problem is that portals about big cities do not attract large numbers of readers. As noted, all six of the cities in question are large cities. Two are currently national capitals. The other four are state capitals. One was a national capital in the twentieth century, and one is a past national capital with a nationalist movement. The following table shows average daily pageviews in the baseline period of 1 January 2019 to 28 February 2019 for the portal and for the head article. For comparison, I have also included the city that has the most populous metropolitan area in the world, Tokyo.

class="wikitable" ! Title !! Portal Page Views !! Article Page Views !! Ratio !! Notes !! Percent
Barcelona	6	4925	820.8	Median is 3. Weird peak on 12 Feb. Built by Cote d'Azur as outline.	0.12%
Milan	9	2,926	325.1	Created 2010 by now-inactive editor. Rebuilt by TTH as outline.	0.31%
Prague	13	3,825	294.2	Created 2006 by now-inactive editor. Rebuilt by TTH as outline.	0.34%
Rio de Janeiro	4	2,555	638.8	Built by Cote d'Azur as outline.	0.16%
Stockholm	3	2,550	850.0	Built by TTH as outline.	0.12%
Turin	7	1,739	248.4	Built by TTH as outline.	0.40%
Tokyo	28	6,486	231.6	Appears to be maintained. Articles are for sum of city and metro area.	0.43%

As can be seen, portals for big cities do not attract large numbers of readers, and they attract less than one percent as many readers as do the articles about the cities. We should abandon the idea that big cities are the sort of broad subject areas whose portals will attract large numbers of readers. We also should delete big-city portals that are based only on outlines. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

• Delete as per analysis. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. I just found this portion of WP:WPPORT's newsletters, and I figured I should share it.

{{collapse top|WP:WPPORT Newsletter #012, 15 July 2018|bg=#ededed}}

{{tq2|Getting faster

Automation makes things go faster, even portal creation. One of the components Certes made was {{tl|Transclude list item excerpt}}. I became curious about its possible applications.

So I worked out a portal design using it, the initial prototypes being Portal:Kyoto (without a "Selected pictures" section), and Portal:Dubai (with a "Selected pictures" section). Then I used Portal:Dubai as the basis for further portals of this type...

: I was able to revamp Portal:Munich from start to finish in less than 22 minutes.

: Portal:Dresden took about 19 minutes.

: Portal:Athens took less than 17 minutes.

: Did Portal:Florence in about 13 minutes.

: Portal:Stockholm also in about 13.

: Portal:Palermo approx. 12 minutes.

Why?

To see, and to show, what may become feasible via automation.

It now looks highly feasible that we could get portal construction time down to a few minutes, or maybe even down to a few seconds.

The singularity is just around the corner. :)}}

{{collapse bottom}}

• Comments - Thank you, User:MJL.
• The collapsed portion ends in mumbo jumbo and so is just as well left collapsed until 2038. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:59, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

:In case anyone was curious how long it took to make these types of portals (or even why some were made). –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 18:08, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination and MJL's analysis. Abandoned portals, automated portals, and navbox clones are of no use to Wikipedia's readers. SITH (talk) 11:42, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

• Delete these portals

{{collapse top|Listing one by one, to be sure}}

::- Automated portal, 0 subpages, created 2018-07-22 08:08:11 by User:Cote d'Azur, useless navigation tool, redundant to the existing articles and navboxes, and of lower quality: Portal:Barcelona

::- Abandoned draft of a portal, 10 subpages, created 2010-03-31 13:35:55 by User:Theologiae. Never went alive. Nothing to keep. Portal:Milan

::- Abandoned draft of a portal, 10 subpages, created 2006-01-03 14:07:59 by User:Adam s. Never went alive. Nothing to keep. Portal:Prague

::- Automated portal, 0 subpages, created 2018-07-26 07:26:18 by User:Cote d'Azur, useless navigation tool, redundant to the existing articles and navboxes, and of lower quality: Portal:Rio de Janeiro

::- Automated portal, 0 subpages, created 2018-07-14 22:28:55 by User:TTH, useless navigation tool, redundant to the existing articles and navboxes, and of lower quality: Portal:Stockholm

::- Automated portal, 0 subpages, created 2018-07-14 21:21:26 by User:TTH, useless navigation tool, redundant to the existing articles and navboxes, and of lower quality: Portal:Turin

{{collapse bottom}}

: Pldx1 (talk) 14:10, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.