Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Charls Andre/Andreas Savvides

Subpage of an indefinitely blocked user. Contains material from the previously deleted article Andreas Savvides. Serves no useful or encyclopedic purpose. Dr.K. logos 03:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

• Delete and remove references to him in half a dozen articles. Masses of detail but no easily verifiable references. Although an Inspector Andreas Savvides is mentioned in [http://www.b-info.com/places/Turkey/news/96-08/aug11b.voa this page], most of the info. is hoax. — RHaworth {{toolbar|separator=dot|talk | contribs }} 10:51, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

:*I agree. The MO has always been making these claims without any support by reliable sources. As an admin you may be able to read the deleted discussion at the talkpage of Andreas Savvides, as this includes an analysis of the quality of the claimed sources by the participants. Dr.K. logos 15:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

• Dr.K., you were the last person to edit Talk:Andreas Savvides. I have e-mailed you the text. Have you seen [http://www.alibaba.com/member/cy101873335/aboutus.html these pages]? — RHaworth {{toolbar|separator=dot|talk | contribs }} 15:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

:*Thanks RH, yes I have, after I saw your reply at the alleged surgeon's talkpage. It is remarkable to see the gospel advertised as a children's book, with the book description in the characteristic loud all capital letters format, and to see the "snooperscooper" brand in a domain outside Wikipedia. Great find. Also thank you very much for sending me the deleted content. I hope this has helped you get a clearer picture of the whole affair. Take care for now. Tasos (Dr.K. logos 15:51, 21 October 2009 (UTC))

• Dr.K. and Yannismarou were most helpful in the discussion. One of my last comments was "how can the Savvides who attended courses at "17 different American universities" be the same Savvides performing seemingly non-stop athletic feats in Cyprus?", and I had asked Charls for the ISBN number for one particular book he was citing. There was a a TL:DR response at User talk:Charls Andre which indicated this is, if not a hoax, then a work of original research. ("I KNOW HIM PERSONALLY.", and curiously "DON'T ASK IN CYPRUS AN EDITOR OR WRITER TO TELL YOU THE SERIAL NUMBER OF HIS BOOK(S)BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE SUCH A NUMBER.") The scanned newspaper clippings that Yannismarou recieved might be used to start an article from scratch, but this draft has too much POV and OR. Marasmusine (talk) 16:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

:*A description of the "evidence", namely the material Charls Andre has collected, can be found in the talk page of the deleted article. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to re-write them here, but I believe that my aforementioned edits can be easily retrieved, so as to assess them. As far as the material itself, I have to "dig" into my mailbox, and see if it is still there. I believe it is. If any Greek-speaking editor is willing to start a new article from scratch (although I seriously doubt if the excerpts from the newspapers are good enough for an article per WP policies), I'm willing to forward him/her the material in question. As far as I am concerned, I have neither the time nor the taste to undertake the task. Cheers!--Yannismarou (talk) 17:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

::*Thanks Yannis for your input. It seems to me that from the analysis you made of the material in the talkpage of the deleted article that RH sent me, the information was not up to wp:rs standards and at times the quality of the photocopies was bad, so no definite conclusion about Savvides could be made. Given that there are so many and disparate claims made about this person it seems to me that it would be prudent not to base an article on bad copies of newspaper clippings and obscure records that are best primary sources, but to wait until such time as the information becomes more reliable. There is also a record of Charles Andre avoiding to supply more detailed information such as ISBN numbers, as Marasmusine mentions, and in other cases Andre refused to provide more information citing copyright restrictions. All of this does not inspire confidence about the intentions of the would-be sources. Apart from the quality of information, the claims made are so outlandish that they appear to be beyond the capabilities of a normal person in a normal lifetime, therefore the possibility arises that the claims may actually refer to more than one person if they are actually true, which is far from proven. Meanwhile, I think that this discussion has diverged from its original focus which was to determine the deletion of the subpage and not the creation of the article about Savvides. I think that we should delete the user subpage now and if in the future quality information surfaces about Savvides on any of the potential fields of his alleged endeavours (fakir, deep sea scroll diver, Interpol leadership hopeful, DNA researcher etc.) then we can safely write an article about him. Finally, I would like to quote a comment I made in the original discussion: As a last remark, I personally find it rather difficult to believe that someone specialising in holding helicopters down while tethered to a tree can later become a research scientist, but I would love to be surprised. Dr.K. logos 23:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

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• Looks complicated. At first glance the draft looks quite OK. Charls' response is WP:TL;DR. Does Charls have a WP:COI issue? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is not a place to host this sort of material. The user is under the impression that student recommendation are worth reprinting here, including that he received 100 in a multiple choice exam. Primary sources of the nature given here do not show notability. The only thing possible is coming third in an international competition for weight-lifting, but it is merely one held by an "arm of the California Police Athletic Federation (CPAF), World Police and Fire Games. Contrary to the assertions above, Cyprus does participate in the ISBN system [http://www.cypruslibrary.gov.cy/moec/cl/cl.nsf/DMLISBN_main_en/DMLISBN_main_en?OpenDocument] and books published without it in recent years are exceedingly unlikely to be significant. If this was written in the hope of making a Wikipedia article out of it, it is best to end it quickly. DGG ( talk ) 04:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

:*Comment Thank you very much DGG for your concise and well taken rationale for deletion. I may add that the page in addition to being a treasure trove of original research and spurious claims and a recreation of the material of the deleted Andreas Savvides article, it has also become a vehicle for block evasion and probable sockpuppet editing. Dr.K. logos 04:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

• Delete per DGG. I have also refactored the walls of text posted by the IP sock of an indef blocked editor. If this is wrong to do, please feel free to revert me. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 17:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

:::::since a legal threat was involved, I have mentioned this also at WP:ANI DGG ( talk ) 21:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.