noting that editors also intend to start an article about a related topic and to discuss further what the primary topic is. signed, Rosguill talk 05:17, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
- {{no redirect|1 = Hydrocarbonate }} → :bicarbonate (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hydrocarbonate&action=history history] · [https://iw.toolforge.org/pageviews?start=2021-02-21&end=2021-03-22&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hydrocarbonate stats]) [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Hydrocarbonate|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Hydrocarbonate closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Hydrocarbonate|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Hydrocarbonate closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Hydrocarbonate|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Hydrocarbonate closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]
delete redirect to bicarbonate. Currently, hydrocarbonate is considered by some to be synonymous to hydrogen carbonate hence redirected to the bicarbonate page. Hydrocarbonate is a unique ancient chemistry term used by Thomas Beddoes, James Watt and other to describe a therapeutic gas derived from coal/coke. This is not bicarbonate. A new page for hydrocarbonate in this context warrants consideration. SloppyTots (talk) 14:17, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
- Disambiguate My searches indicate that it could mean either hydrocarbon or bicarbonate, though the former usage is considered obsolete. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:28, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: the use as "hydrogen carbonate" is widespread even if you don't think it is strictly correct. The use to describe Beddoes therapeutic gas is obscure, obsolete, describes something that doesn't really exist, and has almost no mentions in Wikipedia. Certainly nowhere useful to point a redirect or dab page. If you're really really desperate to educate people and can find a sensible redirect target for the historical usage, then add a hatnote at carbonate. Lithopsian (talk) 14:35, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
::the study of carbon monoxide as a neurotransmitter in the field of gasotransmitters and therapeutic application of carbon monoxide as through inhalation protocols and delivery of carbon monoxide-releasing molecules has stimulated research in innumerable academic labs and two pharmaceutical companies (proterris and hillhurst biopharma). With this in mind, as hydrocarbonate gas is essentially carbon monoxide, it is an important origin for modern biomedical pursuit. It is now understood carbon monoxide is an effective treatment for inflammation and tuberculosis; this was first recognized in the 1790s but had been lost in archives for 200 years due to the tendency to neglect older literature and discard it as obsolete. SloppyTots (talk) 14:56, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Uses throughout Wikipedia and scientific literature as a synonym for bicarbonate, albeit admittedly one with somewhat improper/obscure nomenclature. A stub for the gas topic has been reverted twice, hence this discussion, yet no need to delete the redirect if the issue is whether or not it should be turned into an article about a different topic. If sufficient reliable sources exist for the gas topic for it to pass WP:NOTABILITY muster, I think an article could be constructed at a qualified title like Hydrocarbonate (gas) then a requested move discussion could sort out whether or not there is a primary topic and how to best handle disambiguation. Alternatively, if the gas is really just carbon monoxide derived from coal, it seems like this could be discussed in a few sentences in an appropriate section at carbon monoxide with an {{tl|R to section}} redirect at hydrocarbonate (gas) or similar. Either way, once there is content on the gas topic on WP with reliable sources, a redirect hatnote would then be appropriate at bicarbonate. Mdewman6 (talk) 00:41, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::Sounds reasonable. There are many papers on the therapeutic potential of Hydrocarbonate (gas) between 1794 and 1802. Carbon monoxide was discovered in 1800 hence Hydrocarbonate (gas) disappearing soon after. With that said, in recent years Hydrocarbonate (gas) primarily appears in papers by historians, but appearance in science literature is scarce. Its thought to be a mixture of CO and H2 (and probably other impurities being Coke (fuel)-derived) nevertheless CO is probably the most relevant bioactive agent. Therefore your suggestion to make note on the carbon monoxide page makes sense once the hydrocarbonate (gas) page has been developed. I should be able to develop a stub in a few days. SloppyTots (talk) 17:04, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
