. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 03:01, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Not mentioned at the target, nor are cognate terms mentioned at the linked ptWiki article. Searching both the internet and Google Scholar in both English and Portuguese, all results appear to be about documents written in a mix of Portuguese and Latin, rather than Brazilian Portuguese. Delete unless a justification can be provided. signed, Rosguill talk 19:09, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
::(Updated) Retarget to Reforms_of_Portuguese_orthography#Pre-modern_Portuguese_orthography where there is now coverage of this topic.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosguill (talk • contribs) 18:35, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 06:45, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Retarget to American Portuguese, linked from {{t|Portuguese dialects}}, but given that we usually mean US when we say American on enwiki, it might be better to rename that article South American Portuguese or Latin American Portuguese, especially since there are small Lusophone communities in the US that may have dialects of their own (Languages of the United States#Portuguese). --BDD (talk) 14:53, 6 April 2022 (UTC)- :Disambiguate I like Tavix's draft. --BDD (talk) 15:59, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Neither of these alternate suggestions acknowledge the main issue I have with the redirect, which is that I have yet to see any evidence that "Latin Portuguese" ever refers to "Latin American Portuguese" in existing literature. signed, Rosguill talk 19:11, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- :But it's reasonably unambiguous. Looking over Latin (disambiguation), the ancient Latins obviously didn't speak any sort of Portuguese; Portuguese is a Latin language in the sense of Romance languages, and uses the Latin alphabet/script, but none of those are likely to lead to such a search term. It's very hard for me to imagine a reader using this and not thinking of it as "Latin American Portuguese".
::Compare also to {{no redirect|Latin Spanish}}, which redirects to Spanish language in the Americas. --BDD (talk) 19:52, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
:::Academic literature uses "Latin Portuguese" as a term of art to refer to an orthographic standard used in Medieval Portugal prior to the development of a strictly Portuguese written language: ([https://www.torrossa.com/en/resources/an/2198188], [https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/48483630/pub-24-libre.pdf?1472755268=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DRepresentational_models_vs_operational_m.pdf&Expires=1649360631&Signature=eAiKTKfHaoCU32Ec5hQRSBC71tOljVZlyCPVxEpL7aLIR7cxCJxe4ikg3nH5hoCYbOjNPllTUYQNABbtAwJT2VNDJHuJ2HOfsfwRDj2W9JCkqerTGxELRMz8vmmUgXOi7utDT68vgkdZDF6qOf60Mxf3H09YC07RF~HyNofOQ06Uj8G2Xlr0rlaterylsjjszxM8neQVAOfj7WpH1FOigdQd3o3BZuQOpTdC1mr9kjfBiL07JeTDTz8WhoWA28oyKlIxL9TU3SQW8fF4MFL4tzEyqYN7gX5EEm69NMjE~m-DY5dBwnDKhSYcPUk0fLPjvaxiYebWjzGQ1HI47JPd-g__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA], [https://academic.oup.com/dsh/article-abstract/17/3/345/929301]). Based on these references I'd hazard that it's likely independently notable and should not be confused with modern dialects. N.b. I don't see an equivalent use of "Latin Spanish", so I don't have as much of an issue with that redirect. signed, Rosguill talk 18:47, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
::::Could we incorporate that into Portuguese orthography? If so, we could disambiguate. --BDD (talk) 19:31, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::I had an easier time adding it to Reforms of Portuguese orthography#Pre-modern Portuguese orthography, as Portuguese orthography does not address the history of the standards at all. I think this should be the new target. signed, Rosguill talk 18:33, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- Retarget to Portuguese language. A confused picture evidently, but this seems the best choice. Johnbod (talk) 14:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
- :Just because Portuguese stems from Latin? That really doesn't seem helpful. Would we ever consider Germanic English? --BDD (talk) 19:31, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
- ::No, duh, because the meaning most likely to be sought is for a variety of the P language. Do try to keep up. Johnbod (talk) 19:55, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
- :::Which variety do you mean - as spoken in Latin America, or the orthographic standard in medieval Portugal? -- BDD (talk) 14:47, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- :::{{re|Johnbod}} Your statement is not as obvious as you make it out to be. It is much more helpful to explain why you are taking a given position rather than having other editors guess. Your follow ups of {{tq|duh}} and {{tq|Do try to keep up}} are the opposite of helpful—rather we are simply trying to understand your unclear position. Indeed, your clarification is still a bit muddy. If you feel the most likely meaning is a "variety of the [Portuguese] language", wouldn't Portuguese dialects be more helpful than the standard language? -- Tavix (talk) 16:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 09:27, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
- Retarget to Portuguese dialects. It's significantly more likely that someone using this search term is looking for a variety of Portuguese than anything else, but it's not clear which one. The main article about dialects has clear and prominent links to all the one we have articles about, and is also the place to learn about the differences between the dialects (which it is far from implausible that someone using this term is wanting to read). If we have any content about the academic usage then this can be linked in a hatnote as it doesn't seem to be the primary topic. Thryduulf (talk) 08:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
- Comment there is no such thing as "Latin Portuguese", there was a transition part, but that happened with every laguage. Nobody speaks Latin Portuguese or even close to it. Its either Brazilian Portuguese or Portuguese. Now, Portuguese stems from Latin, but first came Portuguese and only then Brazilian Portuguese. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 01:19, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
- New nom proposal: retarget to Reforms_of_Portuguese_orthography#Pre-modern_Portuguese_orthography where I was able to add content about the Latin-Portuguese writing standard with citations to reliable sources. signed, Rosguill talk 18:35, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: The nomination changed from delete to a newly suggested target on April 17. I would suggest one week for the current participants to re-evaluate their votes.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 13:18, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. Too many possible options presented by the participants thus far, the newly-proposed retargeting option is a misleading WP:PTM at best due to so many other possible options, and disambiguation would muddy the waters and potentially cause confusion. Let the search results help our readers. Steel1943 (talk) 00:23, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Disambiguate. I have drafted one below the redirect for your consideration. -- Tavix (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: One final relist to assess the draft diasmbiguation page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
- Disambiguate based on User:Tavix's draft. Seems like the option most likely to help readers find what they're looking for. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 09:52, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
