Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Accessibility#Awards arranged in two columns using tables for layout
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New WikiProject useful for visually impaired (article audios)
Hi everyone, you may be interested in this new WikiProject: Wikipedia spoken by AI voice. It's very different from screenreaders – examples you can listen to are on that page. New participants are very welcome. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Four-dimensional space isn't accessible.
Discussion at [[:Talk:Official state car#Super tables|Talk:Official state car § Super tables]]
File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Official state car § Super tables. The discussion is about a large prose article being modified into a super-table. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC) ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
SCOTUS tables
I am trying to increase the readability of tables like the one at 2023 term opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States. Right now they are
- very wide
- mostly blank cells with colors
My goal is to make the table skinny enough so a reader can see all the content without logging in or scrolling to the side, and also to have some content inside each cell that could be read by screen reader - not to mention copy-pasted.
My idea is to have a letter or a few letters in each cell, matching the current colors (I would keep the colors too). With a few exceptions, the most common types of cells are
- wrote a majority
- joined a majority
- wrote a dissent
- joined a dissent
Ideally these would be represented by single letters: M, m, D, d, respectively. The result is something like
border=0 cellpadding=5 |
width=25px |
{| border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=00CD00 width=25px |M{{br}} |
| Majority, written
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=FF5E5E width=25px |D#{{br}} |
| Dissent, written
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=00B2EE width=25px |C#{{br}} |
| Concurrence, written
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=C770F3 width=25px |P#{{br}} |
| Partial concurrence and dissent, written
|-
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=93DB70 width=25px |m{{br}} |
| Majority, joined
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=EE9572 width=25px |d#{{br}} |
| Dissent, joined
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=79CDCD width=25px |c#{{br}} |
| Concurrence, joined
| width=25px |
border=1 style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center" |
bgcolor=CC99CC width=25px |p#{{br}} |
| Partial concurrence and dissent, joined
|}
{{sticky header}}{{table alignment}}{{static row numbers}}{{sort under}}
class="wikitable sortable sticky-header static-row-numbers sort-under col1left" style="text-align:center"
! Case name and citation ! style=width:6.0em | Argued ! style=width:6.0em | Decided ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|JR|John Roberts}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|CT|Clarence Thomas}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|SA|Samuel Alito}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|SS|Sonia Sotomayor}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|EK|Elena Kagan}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|NG|Neil Gorsuch}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|BK|Brett Kavanaugh}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|AB|Amy Coney Barrett}} ! style=width:1.5em | {{abbr|KJ|Ketanji Brown Jackson}} |
Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137
| 11 Feb 1803 | 24 Feb 1803 | bgcolor=00CD00 | M | bgcolor=FF5E5E | D1 | bgcolor=93DB70 | m | bgcolor=93DB70 | m | bgcolor=93DB70 | m | bgcolor=EE9572 | d1 | bgcolor=93DB70 | m | bgcolor=93DB70 | m | bgcolor=EE9572 | d1 |
I think this is definitely better, but there is still the possibility that screen-readers won't tell the difference between upper- and lower-case letters. I'm not sure what alternative to use to solve that problem. Wizmut (talk) 04:32, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:The suggested colours are WCAG 2 AA Compliant, but only three of them are also AAA Compliant. You can get the "dissent, written" one to also be AAA Compliant by lightening it slightly: {{colorbox|#FF5E5E|D1|black}}. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:55, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
::I added all the colors that are likely to be used, if you can take a look. Is https://accessible-colors.com/ a good tool? I think I got them all in the clear but let me know if more changes are needed to the colors. Or anything else Wizmut (talk) 11:24, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:::It should be simple to change the colors, just change the first value in the palette table at Module:SCOTUS-termlist-entry. For example, "#00CD00" changes into whatever your new color for majority is.
:::I do not remember joining being a thing in the module, like joining majority, joining concurrance, so that would need to be added. Snævar (talk) 18:58, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Well the colors are easy to change but there's other problems with the template. My original question wasn't really about the colors. Wizmut (talk) 19:02, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Right. Take a look at opinion 84, Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, at 2005 term opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States. The width of that row will not go down with your change, although the readability will go up. Snævar (talk) 20:07, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Hm... maybe the split could be vertical instead of horizontal. I should give this more attention. Wizmut (talk) 01:16, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
Search Field More Difficult to Activate with a Screen-reader in Chrome
I am a JAWS-user, with Chrome as my preferred and default browser, and I have noticed that, for about the past week, the edit field to execute a search from an article page must be reached by activating a link. This reduces the ease in which I can get to this field, as I could formerly use form field keyboard shortcuts, particularly the letter E, to quickly jump to this field from anywhere on the page. The label of the link (in Chrome) suggests I can press Alt + F to activate it, but this keyboard shortcut does not work in Chrome, I believe because it is overruled by the browser. Additional labeling on the link (a title attribute or ARIA label perhaps) prompts me to instead use alt + shift + F, but this does not work in Chrome either. It does work in Firefox, and the edit field is still available without the prior link in Edge. I have not tested with other screen-readers. I am not knowledgeable enough to suggest a cause of this situation and the discrepancies. Never the less, having the search feature represented and accessed by this link feature in Chrome is certainly a disadvantage that I thought was worth mentioning. 123.16.13.229 (talk) 10:39, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the note; I also use JAWS/Chrome and I myself noticed this today in Incognito mode (I use an older skin called MonoBook, which is better for editors, when logged in). It also occurs in the other major Windows screen reader, NVDA. I wonder if it might be a Chrome issue rather than a result of anything happening on Wikipedia. I'll ask at the technical village pump. Furthermore, if you'd like an account to bypass CAPTCHAs (and also so you can use the more accessible Wikipedia skin), please email me at {{nospam|grahamwp|gmail.com}} and I can arrange it. Graham87 (talk) 14:35, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, thank you for the bug report!
::I tried things out, and I found that the Wikipedia interface visually hides the search text field (requiring a link to be clicked to access it) when the browser window is not full-screen (less than 1120px wide); this also affects the structure available to screen readers. Try maximizing the window (the keyboard shortcut {{keys|Win|Up}} should work). If you can't do that, or if it's already full-screen and your screen is just narrow, try zooming out (keyboard shortcut {{keys|Ctrl|-}}, or {{keys|Ctrl|0}} to reset the zoom level), which also increases the width available for the content in the browser.
::The fact that {{keys|Alt|Shift|F}} doesn't work to focus the search link when it is shown seems like a bug, although I'm not sure whether it's Wikipedia's or Chrome's fault. I filed task T384559 for someone to investigate.
Resource page on "Neuro-inclusive event strategies" started on Meta
I started this page on Meta, Meta:Neuro-inclusive event strategies. Anyone is invited to contribute to this page. Hexatekin (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
Flags allowed in infoboxes
Flags in infoboxes are allowed on essentially all other Wikipedias but the English one. They are not only decorative and make the page more interesting to view, but to someone like me, who has ADHD (specifically ADD), it helps my eyes navigate and find useful information much faster. In short, people with ADHD (at least the way i have been tought, but i cant speak for all) see details first and the full picture later. With just words, country names blurr with all the other text and becomes harder to find, where as a flag is direct and also acts as a useful separator. Blockhaj (talk) 01:06, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
:An assumption here is that the country or countries in an infobox are information more critical than the other information in an infobox, and thus should stand out more compared to other information. This is sometimes the case, for example with sports where athletes compete as representatives of countries and countries are sometimes used to tally results, but it may not be applicable to other situations. CMD (talk) 01:16, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
::Should also be made clear that English Wikipedia has many many more policies and guidelines then other Wikipedia's. The huge amount of articles and editors in English Wikipedia have led to many more discussions about the proper way to incorporate and format information.... be they right or wrong. Moxy🍁 01:48, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, as per the discussion were this began: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons#Avoid flag icons in infoboxes, the original decision to block them appears both to be old and not very thought through (at least not with accessibility in mind), thus it is worth re-examining. I mainly want to be able to use it in infoboxes about weapons and vehicles. Compare these articles for example:
:::* :sv:13,2 mm automatkanon m/39
:::* :sv:Saab 92
:::Blockhaj (talk) 01:57, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
:::To further elaborate, in the case of users (of a military system), a long list of flags is not wanted. In such a case, the userlist should be covered elsewhere in the article and section-linked in the infobox. See here for example :sv:Carl Gustaf 84 mm granatgevär.--Blockhaj (talk) 02:00, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
::::So, looking at Mitrailleuse d'Avion Browning - F.N. Calibre 13,2 mm and :sv:13,2 mm automatkanon m/39, I'm not seeing inherent accessibility benefits to flags. A flag alone doesn't indicate what the field means, as shown here where there are two separate lists of countries, so any user has to read the surrounding text anyway. Then to my point above, how is the reader helped by the emphasis of seeing Romania as compared to learning it is an aircraft ordnance, or that it was used by the Swedish Air Force, or that it could fire up to 1,500 rpm? If the eye is to be drawn somewhere, there should be a good reason for it. CMD (talk) 03:20, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Quickly being able to see the country of origin and primary user can help a user quickly descipher if the article is the correct one the user is looking for. A flag alone can indicate what the field means if there is a convention where an infobox with a single flag always entails origin, and if more flags are present, then the top flag always represents origin. Memorizing this pattern is easy and aids quick navigation. Following this, the ordnance type will always be displayed over the top flag, thus the flag has an extended use. Blockhaj (talk) 03:42, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::In comparison, learning the exact order of the given data without flags is harder, especially since it differs between templates and different language Wikis. With flags, it is obvious from the start were the origin is, also allowing the user to keep track of which data he/she has already read, since text otherwise can blurr together, forcing u to re-read values if you loose ur tracking. I now realise this might be useful for people with dyslexia too.--Blockhaj (talk) 03:53, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
Colour is the only means of conveying information in the tables of the article Member states of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie
Hello
The Member states of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie tables should be modified because they use colours only to differentiate countries, which is contrary to the MOS:COLOR guidelines.
I won't make the change myself, as I'm not familiar with wp.en usage.
Kind regards, Şÿℵדαχ₮ɘɼɾ๏ʁ 09:53, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
:There is a key at the bottom, and the information is in fact conveyed by text in the detailed column. The requirement from WCAG and elsewhere does not actually require its own column, if perhaps that is confusing. Izno (talk) 16:12, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
::@Izno : then tell me how a blind person using a screen reader can know that Madagascar withdrew in 1977 but rejoined in 1989, when it's not written on its line, but only in the legend? Şÿℵדαχ₮ɘɼɾ๏ʁ 16:36, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
:::That can be fixed on the one line. The other colored lines looked fine to me. Izno (talk) 16:43, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
Looking for input anyone good at coding?
Template_talk:Infobox_election#Accessibility Moxy🍁 15:22, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
Discussion at [[:Template talk:Infobox book#Code read out when using a screen reader|Template talk:Infobox book § Code read out when using a screen reader]]
File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Infobox book § Code read out when using a screen reader, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. KaraLG84 (talk) 11:13, 27 April 2025 (UTC)