Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages#Those articles have eluded us

File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:IPAc-ar § Voiced postalveolar affricate d͡ʒ. waddie96 ★ (talk) 21:25, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

{{moved to|Template talk:IPA|Nardog (talk) 04:52, 13 February 2025 (UTC)}}

We used to have dedicated IPA templates for situations like these. How should we handle them now that everything's been rolled into a single ISO-based IPA template?

In a few cases [mis] is used for dialects of German, English etc., rather than [de] and [en]. That makes sense in a way, because using [de] or [en] will link to the standard IPA keys for German and English, which will not explain the IPA symbols being used. But that's not the proper use of [mis], and given how few tokens there are, we're evidently doing something else in most cases.

([mis] is mostly used either for languages that have WP articles but don't have ISO codes, or for protolanguages and stages of reconstruction in etymologies. I think I've fixed up everything else, but didn't know what to do with dialects.) — kwami (talk) 21:34, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:As the documentation for the template and category says, use {{para|generic|yes}}. Nardog (talk) 02:29, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks — kwami (talk) 02:56, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

I've been having a lot of trouble with this... How is consensus evaluated? How are RS found? Oftentimes when I try to look up phylogenetic classification of specific parts of a language family, or a group(s) of dialects in relation to each other (i.e. Northern English, Scots, and Yola in relation to each other, other English dialect groups, and Old and Middle English dialect groups), I can't find much of anything. And it's impossible to tell whether I'm just not looking up the right keywords or if the information I'm looking for doesn't exist. Arctic Circle System (talk) 23:21, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

File:Information.svg

An editor has requested that :Kuna language be moved to :Guna language, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Pineapple Storage (talk) 20:16, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

I moved this from 'Ona language' because [a] that's the name used for the people, which we generally want to be the same as the language, and [b] it's the endonym, and is used by e.g. glottolog. The move request is from an editor who isn't actually proposing Ona, but is opposed to writing glottalized consonants in English names, despite how they're addressed by the MOS. If all articles went to Selknam with a plain k, I think that would be fine too, but they should be consistent — kwami (talk) 23:03, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

I have had this question for quite some time. While English is the dominant language in the government, similarly to the United States or Australia, there is no mention of a de jure official language in Antiguan and Barbudan law ([https://laws.gov.ag search here]). I recently visited the Government Printery to confirm my suspicion, and it appears that the laws website is fully up to date and complete. I also searched through rulings of Antigua's Supreme Court ([https://www.eccourts.org/search-results?q=English#a search here]) which also do not mention English as an official language. Based on my knowledge, there is no legal basis that English is the de jure official language of Antigua and Barbuda. Should articles mentioning English as the official language of Antigua and Barbuda be updated to mention it as a de facto official language? :User:CROIX^{:User talk:CROIX} 13:17, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

:"Official" is by definition "de jure". "De facto official" is a contradiction. Largoplazo (talk) 16:11, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

::Alright, so should we state on the article that there is simply no official language? I had seen the term de facto official on Argentina and assumed it was correct. :User:CROIX^{:User talk:CROIX} 17:01, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes, followed by the note that English is the "working language in official proceedings" or some such appropriate phrasing. If you're talking about the infobox, it can be put into the "other languages" section of the infobox with an appropriate label.

:::It also occurs to me (I'm talking in general, I don't know anything about the specifics of Antigua and Barbuda) that a given government body's internal rules may spell out the language or languages to be used for their own purposes. For example, a legislature's bylaws may specify that all legislative business will be conducted in English, or the courts may have a rule that proceedings will be in English (with translations provided for the defendant and witnesses if necessary) or that official records of the court will be published in English. Largoplazo (talk) 17:16, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

::::Alright. Some minor government bodies do have bylaws requiring English capability, I'll be sure to mention this in the article. :User:CROIX^{:User talk:CROIX} 17:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I posted about this move already (see above); more than 8 days have now passed, so the request has fallen into the backlog. If any uninvolved editors (admins or experienced non-admins) have time, please consider closing or relisting this request. Pineapple Storage (talk) 11:20, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm in a discussion with apparently a member of Samahang Ilokano at User talk:Ilokano Pride. Would appreciate someone looking over my shoulder on the finer points of the article on the Ilocano language.Naraht (talk) 14:11, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Several Akan articles are protected for a month due to an editor who provided a very nice source [Dolphyne] and now refuses to follow it. They are Akan language, Twi, Bono dialect and Bono people [coverage of language]. 3rd opinions would be welcome. Austronesier resolved some related articles, but they're no longer available. — kwami (talk) 19:49, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

File:Information.svg There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Puelche language#Requested move 31 March 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPath^talk 00:46, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

File:Information.svg There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Elfdalian#Requested move 6 April 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPath^talk 05:49, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

Pinging @Kepler-1229b for this, but I have been wondering, that if unproven language families could be given separate colours, why not do the same for Quechumaran languages? This in essence moves Aymara and its associated language family out from the areal "American languages" colour (#c0dde6) and into the current Quechuan languages colour (#c0e5e0), which IMO better reflects Aymara's position.

Another question would be on Altaic. Given that the language "family" is in effect a sprachbund, would it not make more sense to split it up into Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, Koreanic, and Japonic colours? And if not, wouldn't it also make sense to move Ainu into the Altaic sprachbund colour given its (albeit rare) inclusion?

Finally would be Papuan and Australian, where there is a large language family (Trans–New Guinea and (Macro-)Pama–Nyungan) and a host of smaller ones. Why not split those off and keep the rest in the current wastebasket-ish box? Frank_{(has DemoCracy DeprivaTion)} 20:44, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:Firstly, addressing Quechumaran and other such proposals: I suppose that could be done, although some unproven language families can also be thought of as areal groupings. Perhaps more consensus should be established here.

:As for Altaic, Ainu is considered to be more "Paleosiberian" and so it belongs there like Nivkh, while for the Altaic family as a whole I would keep because of the existence of a "Khoisan" color, and the addition of Penutian languages and Hokan languages colors based off of this idea of including sprachbunds as having separate colors. The French wikipedia has split Altaic into its constituent families in the context of language family colors.

:As with Papuan, Australian, (and to some extent American), areal groupings like these are more useful than having two separate colors for each large macrofamily/geographical area; furthermore Pama-Nyungan and Trans-New Guinea all have language families disputed to be included within them, e.g. Tangkic for Pama-Nyungan and numerous families for Trans-New Guinea. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 21:41, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

::Hey, I just want to know how the existence of the Khoisan colour makes you want to keep the Altaic languages the same. I tested it in my sandbox and I believe we should split the colour group like the French article has. Spino-Soar-Us (talk) 01:17, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

We have an edit-warrior making incompetent edits at Akan language, Bono dialect and Central Tano languages. This has been going on for months, so opinions/feedback would be appreciated. The editor has introduced some excellent sources, which are available online, but refuses to follow them. — kwami (talk) 10:52, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Anyone interested in this language, there is a related discussion going on at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Oriental_(Morocco)#Tifinagh 2601:340:8200:57C0:4961:4894:BD8E:4848 (talk) 20:58, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

There is a discussion ongoing at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Writing systems#Notability of individual letters that may be of interest to members of this Wikiproject. Stockhausenfan (talk) 20:52, 4 May 2025 (UTC)