Talk:John A. Hilger/GA2
GA Review
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Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs) 12:31, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
I'll get to this shortly--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:31, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Images properly licensed
- Don't open with his rank; start with just his name.
- I would suggest modelling this article on FA-quality general officer aviators like Frank Bladin, especially in coverage and structure of the lede.
- Delete the names of the other crewmembers from the photo of the Doolittle raiders and just tell the reader which one Hilger is.
- More information is needed on why Doolittle picked Hilger.
- There are lots of issues with close paraphrasing remaining, particularly with the Handbook of Texas article, although some of that is because there are only so many ways that you can say that he served in this post or did that job. Nonetheless, you need to put this article in your own voice.
- There's some redundant info that needs to be deleted, particularly in the early life section where you tell the reader which year he graduated from high school twice, mirroring the entry in the Handbook of Texas.
- I'm going to give you a week to start reworking the article and will put the article on hold until then. If you cannot start work before then, I'll fail the article and you can work on it at your leisure before renominating it.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:17, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
- :I have made some updated to the article based on your suggestions:
- :*All images are licensed properly (PD-USAF).
- :*Updated introduction by removing rank and starting with his name.
- :*I updated the article structure based on the article you mentioned.
- :*I have updated the bomber crew images by deleting other crew members names and only adding Hilger in it.
- :*Regarding the information on why Doolittle chose Hilger, I can't find detailed information from sources regarding Doolittle Raid. But in the book by Woodall, it stated that Hilger was chosen as deputy commander after being nominated by his AAF bomb group commander, due to him being a 'no-nonsense individual', which I paraphrased.
- :*Regarding the paraphrasing issues from Handbook of Texas, I modified the paragraphs with similarity from the content in the Handbook, with the help of Earwig tool.
- :*The redundant info in 'Early life' section deleted. If there are more, you could suggest to me and I will edit it in a given time.
- :Toadboy123 (talk) 04:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
- Better, but still needs more work.
- Forex, the opening sentence comes directly from the Handbook. Look more closely at the info contained in the lede of the Frank Bladin article and how it's structured as a summary of the article. That should be your model. There's a lot of the excessive detail from the lede here that needs to be deleted. Forex, you should tell the reader what school he graduated from and when, but don't tell what his major was until the main body. See WP:SUMMARYSTYLE if you need general guidance on what should be included.
- The lede should be roughly chronological and you shouldn't mention the Doolittle raid in the opening sentence.
- You got the date of his commissioning in the Air Corps wrong.
- Rework the lede and we'll proceed from there.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:08, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
- :I have updated the lede based on the article you mentioned and the second set of suggestions you made. Let me know of any more updates have to be made for the article. Toadboy123 (talk) 02:27, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
- :Sorry to take so long to get back to this.
- The lede looks pretty good, although you need to give a rough time for when he was commanding the 89th.
- Combine the first two sentences of the first para in the early life section
- Open the next para with "Later that year,"
- Combine the first two sentences of the second para by changing the "however" to but
- We don't know for sure that he had to drop out for money problems, so add a "probably" and change fiscal constraints to a simpler phrase
- Link the BS degree, mechanical engineering, adjutant
- Use the name US Army Reserve with a link. You need to clarify that he branched infantry in the USAR. This is one place it's OK to close paraphrase because there aren't many viable alternatives.
- Fold the 3rd and 4th paragraphs together since they both cover his early military career
- More later--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:20, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Sturmvogel 66 Hi. Sorry for the late response to your message. I have made edits to article as per the recent updates you made. Toadboy123 (talk) 08:52, 02 October 2023 (UTC)
- I've trimmed the text some to eliminate extraneous details; feel free to revert.
- I'm not seeing anything about Hilger's service from Nov '43 to Sept '44 in the AF biography. What's the source, Woodall? In fact it contradicts the AF biography which says that he was on Nimitz's staff for the last 18 months of the war.
- The first para of the Cold War section is almost a direct quote from the AF bio and needs to be revised or quoted directly. This is true of most of the rest of the article. Do your best to rephrase all the duty assignments. But stuff like the second sentence of the Later life section is lifted directly from sources and needs to be rewritten.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:14, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- :{{ping|Sturmvogel 66}} I have made the edits as you stated. Regarding the 'rephrase all the duty assignments', am I supposed to rephrase the duty assignements to avoid similtairty with AF bio. I have rephrased and edited the 'Cold War' section? Toadboy123 (talk) 12:58, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- ::Yes--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 13:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- :::{{ping|Sturmvogel 66}} I have paraphased the 'Early life' section which contains the bulk of the information of his military assignments. Let me know how is it and any if any further edits have to be made. Toadboy123 (talk) 09:28, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- ::::{{ping|Sturmvogel 66|Toadboy123}} where does this review stand? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 01:55, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
- :::::{{ping|AirshipJungleman29}} I have made necessary edits from my side including paraphrasing. Waiting for reviewer to give any further suggestions before the article can be considered GA . Toadboy123 (talk) 07:57, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
- ::::::I have left some messages on {{u|Sturmvogel 66}}'s talk page encouraging them to complete this. Let's see if that has any effect. RoySmith (talk) 15:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
{{od}}Apologies, I had misread your comments as only applying to the early part of his career. Your changes are now sufficiently different from the sources that I'm comfortable promoting it.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:17, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
Did you know nomination (second nomination)
{{Template:Did you know nominations/John A. Hilger (second nomination)}}