Talk:Saddam Hussein#RfC: Infobox image

Saddams presidency section is currently mostly just filled with war infomation and just blurbs of infomation which can easily be found on the main articles, and the articles are not co-herent with each other, it dosent make sense that the article dosent talk about how life was under his rule in the 80s, which was possibly the best time for Iraqis behind the 1970s, and instead his entire rule during the 80s is avoided and it goes straight into just talking about the Iran-Iraq war, then the anafal, and then the gulf war, and only then we are given a section thats not entirely war related which is the 90s-2003 section, which still makes alot of references to the united states having small attacks with iraq etc etc, it shouldnt be how the article is structured and i believe we should structure it like this:

- Consolidation of power

- National Reforms and Development compaigns

- Healthcare reforms

- Education reforms

- Economy and Infastructure

- Womens rights

- Diversty in leadership and religious freedom (will contain the infomation that was removed but cut down to a more smaller paragraph)

- Iran-Iraq war

- Small blurb of the lead up to the war and the outcome of the war, that does not take up more then 2 paragraphs of infomation, and instead links the reader to the main article,

- Anafal blurb included in the iran-iraq war section with link to main article.

- Gulf War

- Small blurb that gives more context and shows Saddams perspective, including when Emir Jabar told Saddam he should sell iraqi women for 10 dinars on the street, aswell as kuwait exceeding Opec oil quotas, then allowing the reader to read more on the main gulf war article

- Recovery from the Gulf war

- Faith Compaign

- Reconstruction of Iraq (something not talked about enough was how fast Saddam actually rebuilt most of Iraqs lost infastructure and fixed the food problems in Iraq in such a small amount of time, during this time in Iraq it was called the time of reconstruction, i believe whenever they had news broadcasts in iraq from 1990-1994 it was aimmed at showcasing iraqs reconstruction and so on,

- Life under sanctions

- Early 2000s

mostly politcal stuff, including the build up the 2003 war, 9/11 etc

i would love to hear everyones opinions on if this is a good idea, what should be changed, what should be removed, what should be added etc, i believe this is the best way to structure the article to give a more indepth look on the lifes of IRAQIS under saddam over time and what saddam did to make the lifes of iraqis better/worse, i believe this structure is the best non-bias way to showcase all the infomation of saddams presidency, i wanted to include blurbs of the wars so everyone is in agreement that this is a netural take, since it includes both his good and his bad.

@Abo Yemen @Skitash @KiddKrazy2 @Kharbaan Ghaltaan Local Mandaean (talk) 08:56, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{tq|"blurbs of infomation which can easily be found on the main articles"}} That's exactly how it's supposed to work. We're meant to summarize key events and major points of his leadership and link out to more detailed main articles. That's consistent with how other political biographies are structured.

:{{tq|"it dosent make sense that the article dosent talk about how life was under his rule in the 80s"}} This is a biography of a political figure, not a social history account. What you're suggesting we add belongs in Ba'athist Iraq.

:{{tq|"it goes straight into just talking about the Iran-Iraq war, then the anafal, and then the gulf war, and only then we are given a section thats not entirely war related which is the 90s-2003 section"}} Yes, because those were the most defining and important moments of Saddam's presidency. Those events shaped both his legacy and Iraq's modern history. It's appropriate to give them more space, just like we do for other leaders heavily involved in warfare (e.g. Ronald Reagan). Downplaying them would violate WP:UNDUE by giving disproportionate weight to less notable topics.

:Cutting down sections on the Iran–Iraq War and Gulf War in favor of adding "life under sanctions" or "religious diversity" will distort the structure and weight of the article. Again, this is a biography and not a social overview of Iraq under his rule. Skitash (talk) 10:47, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::@Skitash i took a glance at the ronald reagan article and i noticed it also have a section at the start of his presidency dedicated to his economic policies, aswell as his war on drugs, this is all im pushing mostly for, i want more inclusion of saddams actual policies and reforms in Iraq and not just wars, his not a general his a president, he needs to see more infomation on his actual rule of Iraq, the reader doesnt get any context about Iraqs economy under saddam, Local Mandaean (talk) 05:00, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:::This article does have sections that cover those topics too. #Vice Presidency (1968–1979) and #Economy and infrastructure discuss economic growth, nationalization of oil, women's rights, etc. It's not exclusively focused on wars. What Ronald Reagan's article doesn't have, however, is long lists of redundant WP:FLUFF stating things like "Christians were treated fairly" or "a Jewish engineer was rewarded." Skitash (talk) 13:51, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Stating things like "Christians were treated fairly" or "a Jewish engineer was rewarded." — In this we can add content like "Saddam official adopted the policy of integrating Iraq's different religious and ethnic groups in the society.....Saddam acknowledged innovations/awarded engineers such as Shaoul Sassoon, who was Jewish....[This involve Saddam directly], with some examples which is again I m saying necessary)..... I found some quotes by Saddam or by others on Saddam that how he protected Christians and Jews and kept Iraq in firm control. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 18:51, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Things like "Christians were protected" or "Jews were given state protection" is not necessarily puffery, especially not in the context of Iraq, where there are many leaders who choose to be sectarian and alienate most of their population (e.g. Nouri al-Maliki). Therefore, regarding nations with sectarianism problems such as Iraq, i do think information regarding Saddam's religious tolerance and protection should be included. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:Stuff like "life in the 80s" or "life under the siege/sanctions" can be included in Ba'athist Iraq or a proposed "Presidency of Saddam Hussein" wiki page. However, i think most of the things you propose are pretty good. The "Iran-Iraq War" section, the "Gulf War" section and the "Faith Campaign" section can be shortened with a link to the main article, as you proposed. That way, Saddam's other policies can also be included (such as economical develpment, religion, sect and ethnicity and women's rights). I'm a bit curious regarding the "Reconstruction of Iraq" thing, any information regarding that? All in all, i do think this is a good resolution to the dispute. Local Mandaean and Skitash, would like to hear comments. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 13:17, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::I do have alot of infomation on the reconstruction of Iraq, including some quotes from Saddam on it, aswell as documentarys and books which cover that part of his regime which shows his way of staying in power in Iraq and rebuilding after the damage from the gulf war Local Mandaean (talk) 05:04, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I think it would be a good idea to include this in the "Economy and infastructure" section. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 12:51, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::If @Local Mandaean is referring to 1991 Gulf War reconstruction, then it should be in 1990s-2003 section, Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 13:03, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::It could still be shortly included in "economy and infastructure" KiddKrazy2 (talk) 13:04, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Ok. But one paragraph as @Local Mandaean said regarding post-1990 war reconstruction, one paragraph on it should be in 1990-2003 section too

::::::Economy and infrastructure should be different

::::::* Economy: refers to

::::::** economic polices and reforms

::::::** nationalization,

::::::** industrial development,

::::::** manufacturing,

::::::** diversification

::::::** economic statistics

::::::** quotes or statements by others on Saddam's development

::::::* Infrastructure:

::::::** projects (Baghdad Airport, Baghdad Metro, Mosul Dam), architectural passion and beautifying Baghdad and rest of Iraq (very much known thing of Saddam Hussein, [palaces, memorials, etc])

::::::** role of Saddam in megaprojects

::::::** Saddam hosted architectural events in Baghdad, that beautified Iraq

::::::** Memorials (example Al-Shaheed Monument)

::::::** He also built palaces and large mosques (Mosul Grand Mosque, Al-Rahman Mosque, Umm al-Qura Mosque) across different cities in Iraq, that beautified

::::::** Restored ancient cities like Babylon

::::::Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 13:12, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::OK. But one sentence regarding this must be in 1990-2003 section Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 13:36, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::* Economy: refers to

::::** economic polices and reforms

::::** nationalization,

::::** industrial development,

::::** manufacturing,

::::** diversification

::::** economic statistics

::::** quotes or statements by others on Saddam's development

::::* Infrastructure: projects (Baghdad Airport, Baghdad Metro, Mosul Dam), architectural passion and beautifying Baghdad and rest of Iraq (very much known thing of Saddam: palaces, memorials, etc)

::::** Saddam hosted architectural events in Baghdad, that beautified Iraq

::::** Memorials (example Al-Shaheed Monument)

::::** He also built palaces and large mosques (Mosul Grand Mosque, Al-Rahman Mosque, Umm al-Qura Mosque) across different cities in Iraq, that beautified

::::** Restored ancient cities like Babylon

::::Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 13:09, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:This is how influential leaders wikipedia page look like (e.x George W. Bush and Leonid Brezhnev) This is my idea of restructure:

:* Presidency

:** Consolidation of power: This will show Saddam's grip on power (typical dictator's power holding) Note: Already enough work on this section has been done. No major editing needed

:** Domestic Policies

:*** Economy: This subsection (2) will focus on Saddam's economic and financial policies. His work on diversification of economy, agriculture and bankings.

:*** Infrastructure and development: Saddam was well-known for contributing to numerous megaprojects across Iraq (e.x - Baghdad Airport). Also important thing to mention is his architectural vision, such as building memorials, hotels etc. Building numerous palaces, mosques etc. Beautifying Baghdad and rest of Iraq. Saddam hosted numerous architectural events in Baghdad. This must be separate from "Economy"

:*** Women's Rights: As @Local Mandaen and @KiddKrazy2 have already mentioned, so no need of telling here again

:*** Education and Healthcare: Two to three paragraphs regarding Saddam's policies on education and healthcare. As KiddKrazzy2 said "Because it is government policy undertook by the leader in question (In this case Saddam and his policy of improving women's rights.)". adding some examples and events directly including Saddam or statements by him, statements by others on Saddam's policies would be more better

:*** Religion, sect and ethnicity: Whether @Skitash disagree, but this is one of the most important things. Four paragraphs as WP:SIZE — general mentioning (Saddam's protected minorities......not mentioning of specific community, but general), quotes (Cardinal of Vatican said ...........), notable incidents and examples (Saddam was given Mandaean holy book, He gave Mandaeans title of golden sect, He condemned synagogue attack), ethnic policy regarding Kurds and Assyrians (as Christians were given protection, but had complex status as Assyrian), and the last paragraph for Saddam's inclusion of Shia majority and other minorities in the govt (Ex - Majority of Iraqi Army were Shias......, Christians notably worked in Saddam's palaces......., Saddam's deputy Tariq Aziz was Christian......, and listing one Mandaean and Jewish in important position, in context of Saddam, for ex - Saddam rewarded a Jewish engineer for his invention ect)

:*** Cultural (optional, if there are informations on Saddam and this topic, then add it)

:*** Environmetal (optional, if there are informations on Saddam and this topic, then add it. One thing known regarding this topic is draining of marshes)

:*** military

:* Iran-Iraq War (brief and lenghty topic)

:** Background of war. Regarding enemity of Saddam and Khomeini, that was before Saddam's assuming power in 1979. Khomeini Saddam enimity can be added in Vice Presidency section

:** Warfare period

:** mentioning of notable events such as 23 People

:** Foreign support and opposition

:** Anfal Campaign

:** Aftermath

:* Gulf War (brief and lengthy topic)

:** Backrgound of war

:** Foreign countries' position

:** Mentioning of something special, such as Muhammad Ali's visit to Saddam, Saddam's interaction with a child hostage

:* Warfare

:* Aftermath

:* 1990–2003

:** uprisings, sanctions, U.S regular attacks, Saddam's intervention in Kurdish Civil War, faith campaign, Slight improvement in Iraq's economy and social life, Saddam's Iraq historical revival plan and lead up to 2003

:* Foreign affairs (very important, without this section, any leader's article incomplete): Before any subsection, we can add small foreign policies of Saddam, such as stance on India-Pakistan, opposition to Islamist insurgency in Philippines

:** Arab-Israel and Palestine

:** U.S, Europe and West (maybe we can separate Europe)

:** Soviet and Russia

:** Nuclear ambitions (French and other countries' support, American non-objection during Iran-Iraq War, Israeli assassination on scientists, Israeli bombing of nuclear reactor, etc....)

:** UN & Sanctions (I don't have idea. Pls tell me, is this a relevant topic)

:** Oil Diplomacy and OPEC Relations (I don't have idea. Pls tell me, is this a relevant topic, notable things about this topics include Syria importing oil from Iraq, India-Iraq ties, a brief visit to Saddam by Hugo Chávez in 2000, suspension of oil supply to pro-Israel countries, Venezuela mediating between Iran and Iraq in 2000, and using Euro instead of dollars to sell oil, believed by many to be unofficial reason for the U.S invsion of Iraq)

:** Relations with the Arab world

:** Conflict with Syria (I tried to make it as part of "Relations with the Arab world", but this is very brief that the potential size of above topic)

:This is my idea, pls let me know your opinions or ideas:— @Skitash, @Abo Yemen, @Local Mandaean, and @KiddKrazy2 etc....... Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 23:26, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:Preoccupation with wars is a normal problem and you won't get away from it on a concensus platform like this one.

:As for Saddam's reforms, most of the ones you brought up were total hoaxes. Just Ba'ath sycophants saying what their Soviet overlords wanted to hear. If I were writing this I'd focus on things the man himself and his immediate associates personally did, to include all the bribes, the rapes, the murders, the embezzlement, and the cronyism.

:-Elijah Rose Erose9210 (talk) 00:20, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::As an Iraqi myself, i can assure you Saddams reforms were not hoaxes, it was very noticable and real, and if you talk to any iraqi expesically the ones who are more older and lived during the 80s in Iraq, can confirm Saddams reforms did make a big difference in iraqi society, Local Mandaean (talk) 04:54, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Even if that were true, it means you'd probably cover for Saddam even if he butt fucked your mother when she was in one of those sham universities Iraq had back then.

:::No, Saddam himself never really had peace until he was in an American prison. By the time he defeated his Ba'athist enemies, the Ba'ath had taken over Iraq. By the time he defeated his Iraqi enemies, he was in a sham war with Israel and plotting expansion into Iran. And he paid down his war debts by robbing the Kuwaitis. He's basically notorious for not outliving his competition in the bear cage of Iraqi politics, and most Iraqis still don't even have birth certificates or utilities and it's not like those are problems that can be fixed by installing one guy in high office. Erose9210 (talk) 15:27, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Bro stop spreading biased propaganda views. Saddam is himself laughing from the sky seeing you bluffing like this. If you want to write all these things, go and write on your own Wikipedia. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 15:56, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::If I were writing this I'd focus on things the man himself and his immediate associates personally did, to include all the bribes, the rapes, the murders, the embezzlement, and the cronyism. — same thing goes to George W. Bush, Benjamin Netanyahu, Tony Blair etc. (E.x Mahmudiyah rape and killings, Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and Mukaradeeb wedding party massacre, over 1 million people killed as a result of war). Bush and Blair weren't involved in this, but they do have linkage to it very well. No any severe action were taken against those war criminals by these presidents. Yet their articles have framed them as a savior leader. Even though neutrally these things can be mentioned but yet no....

::But for peoples Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi - typical Muslim dictator who were longest ruler of their country, war maniac leader, etc..... Stop spreading western perception here. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 11:54, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::Where do you get the assumption that Saddam's many reforms and improvements in Iraq are mere hoaxes?? Nothing seems to back up this line of thought. Also, regarding the actions of his associates, that should be written in the associate's article. If you want to write about the depraved actions of Uday, write it here (although it is written in great detail there). We are talking about Saddam here. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:::This user (@Erose9210) is trying to spread western propaganda against Saddam Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 12:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::You wouldn't know what western propaganda was if we drowned you in ethanol.

::::Nah, there's no reason to smear the name of dead men, and Saddam and his cronies were not killed for their sex crimes, nor their embezzlement, nor their theft of Iraqi Jewish and Christian houses, nor even their war with the Kurds, but their theft of Kuwaiti state oil assets, which is perhaps the least of their crimes. Yifham, eyre?

::::-Elijah Rose

::::. Erose9210 (talk) 15:21, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Could you perhaps provide some sources for these alleged crimes? Saddam was not engaged in any sex crimes, embezzlement or theft. Also, Saddam protected the rights of Christians and Jews. Also, remember to be civil in discussions. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 15:40, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Just ignore this user (@Erose9210). He is doing nothing but just wasting our time in discussions Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 15:57, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:So, should this be put to a vote? This way we can secure consensus for Local Mandaean's proposed changes.

:Kharbaan Ghaltaan, Local Mandaean, Skitash, Abo Yemen it's time to resolve this long-standing dispute and ensure consensus. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 14:06, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah sure you can start a draft in your sandbox first 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:07, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::i think Kharbaan Ghaltaan has made a draft about Saddam's presidency. KiddKrazy2 (talk) 14:08, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Sandbox Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 15:38, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::::* User:Kharbaan Ghaltaan/Presidency of Saddam Hussein

::::* User:Kharbaan Ghaltaan/Presidency of Saddam Hussein !

::::Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 15:39, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Im confused on why there are 2 sandboxes here 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:03, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::I tried in two sandbox, both have tons of information Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 16:17, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::what is update regarding our discussion??? finished???? no any discussion since then, its going to be a month Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 14:03, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::WP:SILENCE, no one has opposed the drafts that you've made 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:07, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::So what's your plan then Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::What should be done next so Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::We will just slowly begin with restructing it, we will do it over 2-3 months to ensure the new structure is done with quality and is not rushed. Local Mandaean (talk) 08:47, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::2 - 3 months!?!?! After one and half months, anyone has replied to this talk page. If people can be this much late, then how much late they would be in making edits Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 11:38, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

@Skitash why remove his birth name from paragraph that's his name GloryToCalifornia (talk) 17:39, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Per MOS:NAME and WP:COMMONNAME, the subject is conventionally known by only their first and last names and therefore the full name isn't necessary in the lede. Skitash (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::MOS:NAME has nothing to do with removing someone's full name on the first paragraph of an article, and WP:COMMONNAME is about what to title articles like how the article on Joanne Rowling is called J. K. Rowling. Nothing about what you linked mentioned removing someone's birth name in the first paragraph of their article. You say "the subject is conventionally known by only their first and last names and therefore the full name isn't necessary in the lede". Look on the page about Gaddafi. People know him by Muammar Gaddafi but the first paragraph of his article mentions how his birth name is Muammar Muhammad Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi. What's wrong with Saddams full name, what's wrong with Arab names? People usually refer to Adolf Hitler as simply "Hitler". Should we remove "Adolf" from his page, NO. Why is this even a discussion. The rule doesn't apply here but even if it did please give me an example where someone's full name was removed. You can't because that doesn't exist GloryToCalifornia (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

At present we have: "Under the accord, Iraq was granted sovereignty over the eastern bank of the waterway, while Iran retained control over the western bank.[67]". I cannot find this in the cited reference, and it makes no sense. Iraq is west of Iran. Cross Reference (talk) 22:46, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1753286484}}

{{rfc|bio|pol|style|rfcid=280C8CD}}

Which image should be used for the infobox of the article? 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:36, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

File:صدام.png|1 (current image)

File:Saddam Hussein in 1998.png|2

File:Saddam-ArabSummit-11Nov1987.png|3

File:Saddam Hussein at trial, July 2004-edit1.JPEG|4

File:Saddam Hussein 1979 (3x4 cropped).jpg|5

File:Saddam Hussein in 1980.jpg|6

File:Saddam Hussein !!.jpg|7

File:Saddam Hussain 1980 (cropped).jpg|8

File:Saddam 1983.jpg|9

𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:36, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{smalldiv|1=Pinging users who were involved in previous discussions @Erose9210, @Local Mandaean @SonOfBabylon1 @Skitash @Kharbaan Ghaltaan @Yovt @R3YBOl 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:38, 18 June 2025 (UTC)}}

:I support image 1 or 2 since they're the most normal looking portraits of him 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:41, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 1: I'm in favor of retaining the current image (the official portrait), which was added following this discussion. Skitash (talk) 15:44, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 1: in my opinion the first image is the best option. R3YBOl (🌲) 15:59, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 5 This image is good. It is clearer version, higher resolution and sharp good quality. Also this same image is in Arabic wikipedia Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 16:15, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:Not to repeat votes, but I suggest that once we should test by using all images here on the article or sandbox Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 12:50, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 3 as the highest resolution image available and with color. I also weakly support 5, which has slightly higher resolution and color than 1. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 16:49, 18 June 2025 (UTC) Note: several editors already support the status quo; this one is exactly image 1, and has good enough resolution. I'm willing to lean for this one. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 15:31, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

::Note: I have added images 6 to 9, which I believe are better than 1. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 16:57, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Image 6 is a nice option also R3YBOl (🌲) 17:05, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:::That's too many images. 6, 7 and 9 are too much 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 19:35, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

::Image 3 shows Saddam as a typical dictator. Plus it shows Saddam with pimples, fatty cheeks and all. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 17:00, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:1, 2 or 8 (whichever works). I like the resolution of 4, but I think that 1, 2 and 8 are the most professional looking. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:26, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:3, 2, or 1(Summoned by bot). There are a lot of good options here. I tend to prefer a color image, all things being equal. (It's probably going to be hard to determine consensus with this many options, huh?) TheSavageNorwegian 19:18, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

::Image 5 is best. Higher resolution, much clearer, color image and is taken in 1979, when Saddam became president. The time when Iraq was out of any war or threats. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 19:45, 18 June 2025 (UTC) (Duplicate vote)

:::@Kharbaan Ghaltaan you dont have to repeat your votes 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 19:47, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

::Image 7 is not bad either. It shows Saddam wearing a Sidara, a traditional Iraqi headwear, "The hat was introduced by King Faisal I of Iraq shortly after gaining independence from the United Kingdom, with the intention to create a national dress for the head and to distinguish the people of Iraq from neighboring countries, most notably the Ottomans, who wore the Fez, and Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula, who wore the thawb." Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 19:47, 18 June 2025 (UTC) (Duplicate vote)

:::Just need to crop the image little Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 19:48, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 1 Looks to me like the most professionally taken, official-looking portrait and is good quality for an encyclopedic article. It is a good angle with portrait lighting. Some of other images look like they are just cropped images. Image 1 also has the least distracting background out of all the images. I also support 7 and 8. Wafflefrites (talk)

:i like 1 and 7 Local Mandaean (talk) 11:07, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 2, image 1 gives the impression that Saddam is a leader in the 19th or early 20th century. That is bad, it would be better to choose a colored image to represent the image of Saddam as a "modern era leader". ▪︎ Fazoffic _{( ʖ╎ᓵᔑ∷ᔑ)} 08:35, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 2, image 1 & 3 both also feel good to me V. L. Mastikosa (talk) 00:01, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 2 It is in colour and looks professional. GothicGolem29 (talk) 02:19, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

:Image 3: It is in colour AND has a really high quality. I think this is the best option EarthDude (talk) 03:26, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

Status quo – An RFC with this many options suggests a failure to narrow the discussion beforehand, as per WP:RFCBEFORE. I would support a procedural close, since the sheer number of choices makes constructive consensus difficult. - Nemov (talk) 14:36, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

:tbh I'd support a procedural close too since 9 images is too much 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 17:54, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

::I apologize for adding the 6 images and do acknowledge that the original 5 were sufficient; no one is fully on an image between 6-9 so maybe this RfC can remain with the original 5 images. Again, if this RfC has to be closed, I take responsibility. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 19:06, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

:::It could be narrowed even further realistically, the only images with multiple editors giving them direct votes is 1, 2, and 3, and even then most of the discussion is revolving around 1 and 2 V. L. Mastikosa (talk) 00:06, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

::::I also like 6, 7, 8, and 9. But if I had to pick one of those, I would pick 7. (I already voted above). Wafflefrites (talk) 01:13, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

:I think Image 2 is the best image. It is a decent quality picture which is shot from a conventional angle; is well-cropped; and neither excessively romanticizes or disparages the subject. Emiya1980 (talk) 02:11, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:I support closing this discussion. Too many images to choose from at once. ▪︎ Fazoffic _{( ʖ╎ᓵᔑ∷ᔑ)} 02:16, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

• Image 1 or 2 This is unfortunately very subjective - one's age, national origins, among other things, will colour attitudes here. At best, we should simply use what is the highest quality and what best conveys the role they held historically over most of their life, rather than for what they might necessarily be most (in)famous. An encyclopedia needs to present a biography of a subject, not tabloid filler. Nevertheless, discussions such as this about heads of state are always going to be notoriously difficult, especially this one. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 13:05, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
• :Image 1 shows Saddam as leader of black and white era — 19th and 20th century. Image 2 is not of high quality either. It shows Saddam in uncertain position, probably talking to someone. A lead image must be that image, which had taken intentionally as a portrait, with face in traightforward or side position. Such as Image 5 or Image 7 Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 13:17, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::@Kharbaan Ghaltaan can you please stop WP:BLUDGEONING this rfc? thank you 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:20, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::Fine Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 09:18, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::I am not compelling others to support my vote. I am expressing my own opinions. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 16:30, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• Image 1 seems sufficient. I don't really see a need to change the status quo. Also, there are definitely too many choices. It should probably be narrowed down to 2 or 3. Kerdooskistalk 16:11, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• 1 or 7 are the best overall. The rest of the images have problems, except for maybe 8, which should be cropped if it's chosen. Some of everything (talk) 16:44, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• 2, 3, or 5 - Saddam's primary notability comes from 1979-2003 period when he was the undisputed ruler of Iraq, and images from that time should be preferred. Current image is from too early period.--Staberinde (talk) 09:32, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
• Ideally 2 or 3, could accept 5, 7, or 9- If there are plenty of color images, which there are in this case, then I think that it is generally best to choose one of them. I strongly oppose Image 4. Saddam's hand is partially blocking his face, and this image of him is vastly less recognizable than the images from his rule. Display name 99 (talk) 02:41, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
• 2 > 9 > 3 > 5 > 4 - The most important quality we should prefer in the infobox image is that it depicts him from his primary period of notability. We should also prefer images that clearly show his face and which have good image quality. These criteria together mean we shouldn't use any of the black and white images (1, 6, or 8), because they're both before his primary period of notability and also inherently lower quality because of the absence of color. I also don't think we should use 7 because it seems to be off-color and doesn't show his face as clearly as some of the others. That leaves the pictures I've ranked, of which my ranking is a combination of the above criteria: notably 4 is there even though it appears to be a bit after the period he's notable for because it's a very high quality image that shows his face very clearly. Loki (talk) 03:02, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
• 1, 3, or 5 are the best options in my opinion. Robertus Pius (Talk • Contribs) 03:22, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

The article previously said, "He received numerous medals from the Iraqi state commemorating his involvement or leadership during various events, including the 1948 Palestine War, crushing the Kurdish rebellion, the 1963 and 1968 revolutions, cooperation with Syria, peace in 1970, and the 1973 Yom Kippur War with Israel." I was suspicious of this because the 1948 Palestine war ended when Saddam was 12 years old. Granted, I wouldn't have put it past Saddam to have himself awarded medals for historical events that were before his time, somewhat like Big Brother in Nineteen Eighty-Four, but I found the source cited at [https://web.archive.org/web/20170212152526/http://www.afrol.com/articles/23896] and it doesn't mention Saddam being awarded medals for most of the events listed in that sentence. (The only events mentioned are crushing the Kurdish rebellion and the Iraq-Kuwait war.) -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:21, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:Saddam receieved awards for everything execpt the 1948 palestine war, must just be by mistake. Local Mandaean (talk) 00:32, 24 June 2025 (UTC)