Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JC I

:{{la|JC I}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/JC_I Stats])

:({{Find sources|JC I}})

Contested prod. No evidence that this is a notable album, only links I could find where downlaodsites and sales sites, mostly very recent additions, not reviews or the like. [https://www.google.be/#q=%22jeff+cullen%22+%22jc+I%22] is not the kind of results one expects for a notable album, and other searches give similar results. Fram (talk) 09:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

On second thoughts, I have added Jeff Cullen (musician) and Circus (Featuring Jeff Cullen) to this nomination, as some form of elaborate WP:HOAX. When you look at e.g. the Jeff Cullen (musician)#JC Band members, none of them return any reliable sources in combination with Jeff Cullen. Note that this band supposedly released 13 studio albums! There is no trace of Jeff Cullen on Allmusic, and the entries on e.g. Amazon are all recent additions and digital only. You can find the band on Youtube and so on, but I wasn't able to find a single reliable source about this. I don't know whether the author tries to create a hox on Wikipedia, or whether he is trying to use Wikipedia to support his brainchild (for commercial reasons? To see how you can fool all of the internet?), but Wikipedia is not the place for this kind of thing.

I'll gladly be proven wrong, but please, don't just claim that they are notable, provide reliable souorces (not Amazon, spotify, Youtube, ...) showing evidence that this musician has been active and noted for twenty-plus years, that the band members of JC band really are band members, that these thirteen albums really exist and have existed before 2013, and so on. Fram (talk) 09:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

The pages are not a hoax at all Jeff has been around for a long time. He is just not a famous as some of the other. I don't want try and fool anyone with a prank or anything like that. What ever info you are looking for to keep the pages on this site I will do my best to get the info. MDSanker 09:45, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

• If you or someone else doesn't, I'm going to have to say delete. His web presence is almost non-existent. I thought I had something with an NME page, but all it had was a youtube clip. Neonchameleon (talk) 20:18, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 10:22, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Bundled pages relate to:

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 10:25, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 10:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 10:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

• Delete. I don't know anything about how to search for reliable sources covering popculture topics, so I also can't agree or disagree with the suggestions of hoaxing. However, the nominator's clearly done the source-searching without finding anything, so I can't imagine how this guy passes our inclusion standards. Recreate if he gets coverage in places like books or academic journals. Nyttend (talk) 14:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

• KEEP!

Up until 2013 fans could go to www.JCster.com to stream most of Jeff Cullen's studio albums. On JCBand there has been an active CD store with merchandise that has been open for business since 1998/99

SOME JC WEBSITES

• http://www.JCBand.com
• http://www.JCster.com
• https://www.facebook.com/JCBandOfficial
• http://www.JCsoundstages.com
• http://www.CullEntertainment.com
• http://www.EIRErecords.com
• http://www.LiveFromTHEJCSHOW.com
• http://www.TheRocknRollShow.com
• http://www.CastleHollywood.com
• http://www.JeffCullen.com
• http://www.jcband.com/newthenewcd.html (NEW cd)
• http://www.facebook.com/pages/live-from-THE-JC-SHOW/108753975811690?ref=tslive (Comedy Rock n Roll TV Show)
• http://www.facebook.com/THEJeffCullen
• http://www.myspace.com/736725 (JC)
• http://www.myspace.com/jcband (JC Band)
• http://www.myspace.com/livefromthejcshow (zany rock n roll TV show)
• http://demondollrecords.com/circus/ (Circus)
• http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/579615248XBcrPB (Circus photos)

MDSanker 17:47, 21 December 2013 (UTC) MDSanker 21:19, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

JC is a legit musician, the fact that someone did a websearch and couldn't find something has nothing to do with it. Also, musicians don't need to be cited in academic journals.

ChrisLTH (talk) 08:24, 21 December 2013 (UTC){{namespace detect|main={{ESP}}|other=— ChrisLTH (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. }}

I have known Jeff Cullen for over 20 years and he is TOTALLY legit and in fact I played an instrumental role in 2000 when I was the Executive Producer for his album - Holywood as well as orchestrating the sessions for the album with Monique Mizrahi at Sunset Sound and Westlake Studios. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.53.90 (talk) 22:30, 21 December 2013 (UTC) — 24.184.53.90 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

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• KEEP!

JC and Circus is not a WP: HOAX. I worked for the band intimately and was their stage manager (among other numerous tasks) from 1989-1992. I lived with the band then and have remained friends with Jeff since then. I also designed 7 JC albums in the 90s and witnessed the band's progression and studio albums being recorded over the years first hand and redesigned the JC logo.

I helped produce most of the Circus shows mentioned on JC's page at Gazzarri's, Roxy, The Whiskey, etc. and I also worked with Trudy Green at Howard Kaufman Management via Jeff to help promote Heart's new album. (at that time)

An early Circus album was produced by Dito Goodwin, who produced the early No Doubt material. Jeff has worked with numerous well-known musicians, including Matt Sorum from Guns and Roses as a band member and tons of others.

Jeff owned Cole Stages in Hollywood where he helped pre-production on several notable acts like Air and Remy Zero, who I also worked with via Jeff. You can't make up the amount of detail contained in the JC/Circus pages. I was in New York with them when Jeff and Angelique filmed the George Michael video Outside. I have been to the castle in Hollywood Hills. I have seen Circus and JC Band many times live and Jeff always strives for excellence.

Jeff has been involved in a lot of rock and roll history and it would be a shame to dismiss his story. When the band was started there wasn't digital media or Wikipedia to document this story so there is a lot coming out at once, which may be raising some eyebrows but that doesn't make the story untrue or uncredible.

JC has been instrumental in my music career and introduced me to many people and situations that have helped my with my success over the years. I am currently the spokesperson for www.guitartricks.com/channel and have been for the past 4 years. Our website has 20,000 visitors a day and I put my reputation behind everything stated on the JC Wikipedia pages as the truth.

I can be reached at nealgt7 at gmail dot com with any questions regarding JC's creditability.

Neal Walter— 2602:306:321A:7470:226:BBFF:FE0E:D11B (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 23:20, December 21, 2013 (UTC).

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One of the most talented & humble people in music. JC music does the talking. I love the man and his songs.

EG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.216.201 (talk) 02:29, 22 December 2013 (UTC) — 98.64.216.201 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Delete all - As the editors of the articles (and in favour of them being kept) seem to have close connections with the subject, this looks like a breach of WP:Conflict of interest (Do not edit Wikipedia in your own interests or in the interests of your external relationships.). Unfortunately, rewriting to meet WP:BIO, etc. seems impossible as the nominator has pointed out the total lack of reliable and verifiable information on the subject. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 03:34, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

::You have no proof that I know this person (Jeff Cullen), please don't accuse me of this. I have never met Jeff Cullen, and I don't know him. MDSanker 07:00, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

:::Then this photo https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jeff_Cullen.png is improperly sourced. You can't take a posed headshot of a person having never met him. DocumentError (talk) 18:51, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

::Comment Given the clear and obvious case of WP:HOAX, I advise the hoax tag be placed at the top of the various pages being used to craft the "Jeff Cullen" storyline pending their eventual deletion. Unfortunately, my attempts to do so have resulted in repeated undos by the story-master so I am unable to do it without edit warring. DocumentError (talk) 02:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

• DELETE I see no reliable secondary or tertiary sources unrelated to the subject. If this article does end up being kept, it needs a massive overhaul, and what little information may be worth keeping MUST be cited I feel like a tourist (talk) 13:45, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

• KEEP! I have seen JC live and own JC 2 and Union Station which I think is one of the best cd's ever recorded. EVER!~ There needs to be more on JC it's crazy that you are trying to remove one of the greatest songwriters in rock. Cisco Hernandez — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.149.168.231 (talk) 23:19, 23 December 2013 (UTC) — 189.149.168.231 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• KEEP! The JCBand.com domain name has been active since 2000-03-03 with ICANN, and cross verified by various WHOIS records.

http://whois.domaintools.com/jcband.com

http://whois.net/whois/jcband.com

http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx?domain=JCBAND.COM

An active band & music site was captured by the Web Archive during this time. This cannot be hoaxed and is an accurate copy of what was accessible to the public and confirmation the artists presence from at least this time to present.

http://web.archive.org/web/19960615000000*/http://www.jcband.com

Looking at the basic verifiable facts above, JC Band is NOT a hoax and has a history of providing credible music to the public.

124.171.131.16 (talk) 07:42, 24 December 2013 (UTC)Mark Spillane— 124.171.131.16 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Delete No references listed, RS or otherwise. Therefore, no notability. Further, clearly WP:HOAX. The photos used to accent the articles show EXIF data from Burns, Tennessee from last month. International rock sensation "Jeff Cullen" visited a town of 1500 in rural Tennessee last month where he performed multiple concerts and also had his official headshot taken? DocumentError (talk) 07:37, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:TNT. Even if the references to Rock On magazine and the French edition of Rolling Stone can be substantiated, these pages are hopeless fancruft and should be completely rewritten. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 19:22, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

::Comment Given the clear and obvious case of WP:HOAX, I advise the hoax tag be placed at the top of the various pages being used to craft the "Jeff Cullen" storyline pending their eventual deletion. Unfortunately, my attempts to do so have resulted in repeated undos by the story-master so I am unable to do it without edit warring. DocumentError (talk) 02:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Keep-JC is a real person, I should know, I dated him something like 15 years ago. I have heard all his wonderful music. He is a talent that deserves recognition. And I adore him and his wife and their chihuahua Lyla who is Diva, my chihuahua's good pal. So if this isn't real then what is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.0.113.73 (talk) 23:49, 24 December 2013 (UTC) — 108.0.113.73 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

KEEP! I remastered all of JC's studio albums in 2013 and have known him for two years. In this time, I have seen his phenominal ability as a singer/guitarist and a songwriter. He is held in very high regard by the music industry in LA as well as by myself. This page is certainly not a hoax, nor a commercial enterprise. I have worked in the record industry for 20 years as a music producer and JC is one of the finest I've worked with. I can be contacted at www.anthonycormican.com if anyone wishes to discuss this further.— 142.136.65.103 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 18:43, December 24, 2013 (UTC).

• KEEP! - I have know the artist and band JC since my early days as an A&R exec at Geffen/Outpost records. I've seen many shows and have most of his albums. If my boss had permitted me I would have offered JC Band a recording contract. JC was one of the best rock performers to make the LA scene in the late 90's early 00's. His guitar skills were so good members of Beck's band tried to convinced him to try out for guitar player for Beck's Midnight Vultures tour....fact! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidealer (talk • contribs) 17:34, 24 December 2013 (UTC) — Sidealer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

KEEP - I have known JC for almost 10 years, seen his band perform, been to his rehearsal studios he used to own and he has played guitar in my home many times. Eugene Gordon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.56.174 (talk) 16:26, 24 December 2013 (UTC) — 24.205.56.174 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Delete all for lack of WP:RS. I'm getting tired of all these "keeps"...is there some conspiracy going on? --みんな空の下 (トーク) 04:27, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

• Delete all. The article Jeff Cullen (musician) has only one independent source cited, [http://blogcritics.org/guitar-poll-results-100-entries/ this page] being used to support the claim that Cullen was named one of the top 100 guitarists by a poll. However, nowhere does the source mention Jeff Cullen at all. If the only cited independent source is not valid, it seems unlikely that the subject is all that notable. If it turns out that Cullen really is notable, the article can be re-created later with valid independent reliable sources. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:56, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

• Delete all. Metropolitan90, you have a good point, I think for now the pages need to be taken down. Let someone who is better at this start one up for him with the proper citations. He is a real person not a hoax, however is he worthy of the pages today? Maybe, maybe not. If they can be removed and replaced later when and if he is more noteworthy that is fine with me. I did a few months work on it however, obviously not hard enough since it was not written the correct way.

MDSanker 05:45, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.