Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jaguar versus leopard

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This article strikes me as eminently unnecessary; based entirely on WP:SYNTH where comparisons are made, and on arbitrary juxtaposition of unrelated material where that isn't done. The topic bears no comparison to Tiger versus lion - not one of my favourite pages due to the fanwankery it attracts, but that at least has a basis in plentiful existing coverage of the article topic (i.e. the comparison). This, on the other hand, features one single source of that type (#31). Everything else is thrown together in original synthesis. This article should not exist on Wikipedia. - Add: I agree that the referencing is exemplary, but unfortunately the topic choice is not. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:51, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:42, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

• Delete, although meticulously referenced, this does not seem to be a topic preoccupying authors. Geschichte (talk) 20:09, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 20:13, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organisms-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 20:13, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

• Delete Is a well researched, well formatted article that might make a fantastic school essay or article somewhere else, but there are only two sources that explicitly discuss jaguar vs leopard, and one of them's self published. Text book WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. – FenixFeather ^{(talk)(Contribs)} 23:35, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
• This is a well referenced article. This article makes a scientific comparison between the jaguar and the leopard. I see no point to nominate a deletion for this article! - (unsigned comment by author, moved here from talk page --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:43, 7 September 2018 (UTC))
• Keep. I am in the process of tweaking it, using reliable sources like these.{{cite book |title=Wild beasts; a study of the characters and habits of the elephant, lion, leopard, panther, jaguar, tiger, puma, wolf, and grizzly bear |author=John Hampden Porter |author-link=J. Hampden Porter |pages=76–256 |url=https://archive.org/stream/wildbeastsstud00port#page/n197 |year=1894 |publisher=New York, C. Scribner's sons |access-date=2014-01-19}}{{Cite book |author1=Nowell, Kristin |author2=Jackson, Peter |title=Wild Cats: Status Survey and Conservation Action Plan |url=http://carnivoractionplans1.free.fr/wildcats.pdf |year=1996 |publisher=IUCN/SSC Cat Specialist Group |location=Gland, Switzerland |isbn=2-8317-0045-0 |pages=17–149 |chapter=}}{{cite journal |last1=Davis |first1=B. W. |last2=Li |first2=G. |last3=Murphy |first3=W. J. |title=Supermatrix and species tree methods resolve phylogenetic relationships within the big cats, Panthera (Carnivora: Felidae) |journal=Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution |year=2010 |volume=56 |issue=1 |pages=64–76 |doi=10.1016/j.ympev.2010.01.036 |url=http://web.csulb.edu/~acarter3/course-evolution/files/cat-phylogeny.pdf |pmid=20138224 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160305131606/http://web.csulb.edu/~acarter3/course-evolution/files/cat-phylogeny.pdf |archive-date=5 March 2016 |df=dmy-all}}{{cite journal |last1=Mazák |first1=J. H. |last2=Christiansen |first2=P. |last3=Kitchener |first3=A. C. |last4=Goswami |first4=A. |title=Oldest known pantherine skull and evolution of the tiger |journal=PLOS ONE |year=2011 |volume=6 |issue=10 |pages=e25483 |doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0025483 |pmid=22016768 |pmc=3189913 |bibcode=2011PLoSO...625483M |doi-access=free }}{{cite journal |last1=Johnson |first1=W. E. |last2=Eizirik |first2=E. |last3=Pecon-Slattery |first3=J. |last4=Murphy |first4=W. J. |last5=Antunes |first5=A. |last6=Teeling |first6=E. |last7=O'Brien |first7=S. J. |title=The late Miocene radiation of modern Felidae: a genetic assessment |journal=Science |year=2006 |volume=311 |issue=5757|pages=73–77 |pmid=16400146|doi=10.1126/science.1122277 |bibcode=2006Sci...311...73J |s2cid=41672825 |url=https://zenodo.org/record/1230866}}{{cite journal |last1=Werdelin |first1=L. |last2=Yamaguchi |first2=N. |last3=Johnson |first3=W. E. |last4=O'Brien |first4=S. J. |title=Phylogeny and evolution of cats (Felidae) |journal=Biology and Conservation of Wild Felids |year=2010 |pages=59–82 |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266755142}}{{cite journal |author1=Kitchener, A. C. |author2=Breitenmoser-Würsten, C. |author3=Eizirik, E. |author4=Gentry, A. |author5=Werdelin, L. |author6=Wilting, A. |author7=Yamaguchi, N. |author8=Abramov, A. V. |author9=Christiansen, P. |author10=Driscoll, C. |author11=Duckworth, J. W. |author12=Johnson, W. |author13=Luo, S.-J. |author14=Meijaard, E. |author15=O’Donoghue, P. |author16=Sanderson, J. |author17=Seymour, K. |author18=Bruford, M. |author19=Groves, C. |author20=Hoffmann, M. |author21=Nowell, K. |author22=Timmons, Z. |author23=Tobe, S. |year=2017 |title=A revised taxonomy of the Felidae: The final report of the Cat Classification Task Force of the IUCN Cat Specialist Group |journal=Cat News |issue=Special Issue 11 |issn=1027-2992 |url=https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/32616/A_revised_Felidae_Taxonomy_CatNews.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y}} As you may see from this, the topic is quite popular, people are interested in it, especially as they somewhat resemble each other in appearance. Leo1pard (talk) 10:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

::So in essence you want to make this a special case extension of Panthera#Evolution / Panthera#Classification? Fair enough, but a) I doubt that requires a separate article and b) it will mean jettisoning everything not connected to comparative phylogenetics - which looks like most of it... --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:35, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

:*Many, if not all, of those appear to be great resources. However, you have to prove notability of the specific subject. Please show us exactly where the importance of comparing specifically the Jaguar and Leopard is significant, not just a comparison of a number of different species of cats. It appears to me that every source you provided is comparing and dealing with the taxonomy of a large group of species of cats, not just those two specific ones. --David Tornheim (talk) 21:03, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

• tentative Delete Move to User space. I agree it is meticulously referenced. The title strikes me as un-encyclopedic. If this comparison had enough sources to make it notable, I might be willing to concede that it warrants an article. I believe another editor above had checked and had not found enough WP:RS for notability. I do have a similar reaction to Tiger versus lion, which sounds equally un-encyclopedic. And since there appears a consensus to keep Tiger versus lion, if enough WP:RS is presented for this topic, there may be an argument to keep it. --David Tornheim (talk) 20:52, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

::Justification for new vote: The new title Comparison of cheetahs, jaguars and leopards is an improvement. My vote to move to user space will make it easier for editor to transfer things over. Once that is done, then delete. --David Tornheim (talk) 10:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

• Comment I am on the issue of reliable sources there, and it is the same issue that actually made Tiger versus lion be encyclopedic enough to stay. Leo1pard (talk) 04:18, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

:*Delete it seems to be pretty much one guy's ideas on what's the difference between two different animals, with no encyclopedic value. (and the title is simply absurd. If kept it should be "a comparison of jaguar and leopard" or something) IdreamofJeanie (talk) 17:08, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

::* Like this? Leo1pard (talk) 06:11, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

• Delete. I nominated the brand new Comparison of cheetahs, jaguars and leopards for deletion, and then noticed this discussion. It is rarely a good idea when an article is up for deletion, to create a new nearly identical one... Fram (talk) 07:20, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
• This is not identical for the reason that the title is more encyclopedic, as User:IdreamofJeanie put it, and it has items that are not found in Jaguar versus leopard. Leo1pard (talk) 10:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

::Oh good grief... "The cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus), jaguar (Panthera onca), and leopard (Panthera pardus) are three species of felids that are known for having yellow or tawny fur marked by spots."? What kind of a basis for an article is THAT? --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:41, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

::* It is now like this: "The cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus), jaguar (Panthera onca), and leopard (Panthera pardus) are three species of felids that are known for having yellow or tawny fur marked by spots. Due to their physical similarities, they could get mistaken for one another, and so differences between them have been discussed." and WP:Notability is the basis: Leo1pard (talk) 10:36, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

• [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/440438038529919457/ jaguar vs leopard vs cheetah] (Pinterest)
• [http://tigertribe.net/differences-between-jaguar-leopard-and-cheetah/ JAGUAR, LEOPARD & CHEETAH : DIFFERENCES]
• [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNSoR_bVSk Differences between jaguars, leopards and cheetahs] (YouTube)
• [https://www.popsugar.com/pets/Spot-Differences-Between-Leopards-Jaguars-Cheetahs-3271875 Spot the Difference — Is It a Leopard, Jaguar, or Cheetah?]
• [http://www.walkthroughindia.com/know-the-difference/major-differences-cheetah-leopard-jaguar/ Major Differences Between Cheetah Leopard and Jaguar]

: Jaguar versus leopard:

• [http://www.compareanimal.com/2014/08/compare-leopard-vs-jaguar.html Compare Leopard vs Jaguar]
• [https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/12/animals-big-cats-jaguars-leopards/ Can You Spot the Difference Between a Jaguar and a Leopard?]
• [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmwQl27OMGA Jaguar vs Leopard | ANIMAL BATTLE (+Lion vs Tiger winner)]

: Cheetah versus leopard:

• [https://www.diffen.com/difference/Cheetah_vs_Leopard Cheetah vs. Leopard]
• [http://mentalfloss.com/article/19830/cheetah-vs-leopard-whats-difference Cheetah vs. Leopard: What's the Difference?]
• [https://animalsake.com/cheetah-vs-leopard-differences-similarities Cheetah Vs. Leopard - Know the Differences and Similarities]
• [http://blog.londolozi.com/2016/03/10/the-difference-between-a-leopard-and-a-cheetah/ The Difference Between a Leopard and a Cheetah]
• [https://blog.rhinoafrica.com/2018/02/14/cheetah-leopard-know-difference/ Cheetah vs. Leopard: Do You Know the Difference?]
• [http://www.vulkaner.no/n/africa/leo-gepard-e.html Cheetah, Gepard and (or?) Leopard]
• [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NPI1lXReMY Leopard vs Cheetah]
• [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQT0gunFrGI Leopard Kills a Cheetah | Tiger vs Tiger]
• [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Irnxd1qOA When a leopard comes across some cheetah brothers]

: And that is not all. Even WP:reliable sources talk about it: Leo1pard (talk) 10:32, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

: 1) Porter said that the jaguar could be mistaken for a "large and thick-set panther" (leopard)

: 2) Nowell and Jackson compared the rosettes, heads, builds and limbs of the leopard and jaguar.

: 3) Nowak compared their physiques.{{cite book |last1=Nowak |first1=R. M. |title=Walker's Mammals of the World |year=1999 |publisher=Johns Hopkins University Press |location=Baltimore, USA |isbn=978-0-8018-5789-8 |pages=828–831 |edition=6th}}

Delete. Similar looking species typically only get mention in those other articles with statements such as subject is distinguished from other species by color, number of spines, etc. Sources talking about differences aren't really going to indicate true notability here since that happens all the time in identification literature. Panthera#Classification was already mentioned above and suits the topic just fine. Kingofaces43 (talk) 21:35, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

: Comment, that does not apply if you have a whole bunch of sources{{cite book |last=Israel |first=Elaine |title=The world almanac for kids, 2000 |publisher=World Almanac Books, distributed by St. Martin's Press |location=Mahwah, New Jersey |url=https://archive.org/details/worldalmanacfo2000isra?q=a+leopard%2C+a+jaguar%2C+and+a+cheetah%3F |year=1999}}{{cite book |last=Israel |first=Elaine |title=The world almanac for kids, 2001 |publisher=World Almanac Books, distributed by St. Martin's Press |location=Mahwah, New Jersey |url=https://archive.org/details/worldalmanacfork00isra?q=a+leopard%2C+a+jaguar%2C+and+a+cheetah%3F |year=2000}}{{cite book |author1=Van Valkenburgh, B. |author2=Pang, B. |author3=Cherin, M. |author4=Rook, L. |editor1=Nyhus, P. J. |editor2=Marker, L. |editor3=Boast, L. K. |editor4=Schmidt-Kuentzel, A. |title=Cheetahs: Biology and Conservation (Chapter 3 – The Cheetah: Evolutionary History and Paleoecology) |chapter=Chapter 3 - the Cheetah: Evolutionary History and Paleoecology |series=Biodiversity of World: Conservation from Genes to Landscapes |publisher=Elsevier |pages=25–32 |doi=10.1016/B978-0-12-804088-1.00003-4 |chapter-url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128040881000034 |year=2017 |isbn=9780128040881 |access-date=2018-09-11}} talking directly about it. Leo1pard (talk) 04:44, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

::Actually it does. A bunch of sources do talk about it, so it's WP:DUE at Panthera, etc. Differences between species get discussed all the time, but we aren't going to have comparison articles for all those instances. Comparative phylogeny or taxonomy gets dealt with at the respective articles. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

:Keep both articles. All three species are confused with each other, and people will need information about 3 cats. And where is the most suitable place to look for??? ONE ENCYCLOPEDIA like Wikipedia! — Punetor i Rregullt5 (talk) 07:11, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Delete: unnecessary and not encyclopedic. BhagyaMani (talk) 20:57, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.