Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Stuart Lewis Yates

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:{{la|1=Paul Stuart Lewis Yates}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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Does not meet criteria of WP:GNG or WP:NBIO. Article is written in a promotional tone and sources provided do not discuss Lewis in any significant way, but focus on the company (and in some the company itself is only mentioned in the article). ... discospinster _talk 19:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film, United Kingdom, and Scotland. ... discospinster _talk 19:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Additional Reliable Sources: Since the original comment, several additional reliable sources have been included, including articles from Screen Daily, which discuss The Mise En Scène Company's involvement in international film markets and provide specific insights into the company's activities under Paul Stuart Lewis Yates' leadership. This coverage in trade publications highlights Yates’ influence on MSC's growth and market strategies, directly linking his role to the company's achievements in the independent film industry.

:* Notability through Independent Coverage: Wikipedia’s General Notability Guideline (WP ) requires subjects to be covered by reliable, independent sources with significant coverage. With trade magazines like Screen Daily now among the references, Yates meets this criterion, as the sources highlight MSC’s market presence and contributions to film sales, directly attributing these developments to Yates’ leadership. Coverage from sources of this caliber signals Yates' relevance within the industry.

:* Significant Industry Contributions (WP ): According to Wikipedia’s Notability for Biographies (WP ), individuals who have significantly contributed to their field are considered notable. Yates’ work in expanding MSC’s presence at major markets like Cannes and the European Film Market shows his influence in promoting independent films globally. As the founder and executive, he has shaped MSC’s strategies, making him a notable figure in the film sales industry.

:* Neutral Tone and Factual Focus: The article has been carefully revised to maintain a neutral, encyclopedic tone, focusing on verifiable facts about Yates’ career and impact. By including only sourced information about his contributions, the article aligns with Wikipedia’s neutrality standards and avoids promotional language.

:Demosthenes1999 (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

::Your reply looks AI-generated, please let's keep the discussion among humans. AI answers tend to be severely bloated, as the one above indeed is. Geschichte (talk) 21:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

:::My apologies, that's semi correct, I had AI re-format my argument points to make them more coherent but also to save time. AI edited but not generated. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 22:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge: a small section to the Mise en Scene company article would seem fine. I don't think the individual is notable without the company. Oaktree b (talk) 22:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• :Yeah that sounds good, but I don't think saying someone is not notable when you remove the thing that makes them notable makes any sense, like I don't think The king is notable without his crown sort of thing, just doesn't really make sense. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 22:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

:Keep, the article is completely fine for EnWiki. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 22:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge any relevant content to The Mise En Scene Company. No evidence of independent notability, a check shows all online sources are for activity done by the company with him as a signatory or spokesperson, which speaks to his importance within the company but not to any wider relevance outside it, so a brief mini-bio in the company article is both logical and sufficient. Crowsus (talk) 08:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• :That makes sense I can’t really argue against that specifically. I made the profile based on emerging influence and potential trajectory. Mainly from my interest in a couple of their films which I want to make profiles for eventually, the True Don Quixote and Anchorage I figured it matches with past precedents on wikipedia for founders and having a separate profile means it can be tracked and updated a bit easier. I have a friend who works at screen who says they’ve got some good projects on the horizon. I can’t argue against merging exactly though cause that is in line with policy but I’m obviously biased cause I wrote it lol. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 13:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep

:It should be highlighted that Paul Yates is recognized in sources as the founder of the company, a role far more significant than that of a mere signatory or spokesperson as suggested above.

:This distinction aligns with Wikipedia’s guidelines on “biographies of living persons” and “businesspeople,” where founders with documented influence, leadership, or innovation in their fields have greater justification for a separate article than someone solely acting in a representative capacity. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 19:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

::Note that it says "documented". This means that there must be reliable sources significantly discussing him and his influence, leadership, or innovation (or even his emerging influence or potential trajectory). At the moment there are none, only sources noting that he is the founder of the company. (Also you have recommended "keep" twice, when you should only do so once, so I will strike out the first "keep" as redundant.) ... discospinster _talk 21:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Thanks for striking the keep, sorry trying to get used this chat room format. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 21:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

::::*used to Demosthenes1999 (talk) 21:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Yeah the articles discuss the company the person founded, which can still contribute to demonstrating their notability, but clutching on straws by that point though. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

:I've added two guardian articles as extra references, the two Guardian articles are reviewing films represented by MSC and do not directly mention Paul Yates or the company, but they demonstrate MSC’s significant activity in the U.K. This activity occurred under Yates' leadership as founder and executive, indirectly highlighting his role in the company’s reach and success. While this may not fully satisfy WP for a standalone biography, it underscores the impact of MSC, which should be taken into account when evaluating Yates’ contributions and emerging influence in the film industry. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 02:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete No significant independent coverage. The references in the article are primarily about the organization and do not mention him at all. The only information about him is one .gov listing as a company officer and his own writing. Lamona (talk) 23:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• :I respectfully disagree with the "delete" rationale. The coverage from Screen Daily is significant, as it is a recognized authority in the film industry. The article specifically mentions Paul Yates in the context of founding his company and details how it was formed, thus establishing his role and relevance. This aligns with Wikipedia's General Notability Guideline, which requires significant coverage in reliable, independent sources.

If additional sources are required, I am happy to contribute further research to strengthen the article. However, I believe the Screen Daily coverage alone demonstrates notability, as it is both independent and detailed. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 05:32, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:::That's a very short article (14 sentences) in which a goodly portion is quotes from him. It is not enough to establish notability. Lamona (talk) 17:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Redirect - if none of the sources show significant coverage, I’m not sure what purpose a merger would serve. Many filmmakers, including my partner of 17 years, have had films screened at Cannes; it’s not automatically notable. I’m looking at his posters right now on the wall. It’s not a big deal. Bearian (talk) 05:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• :I’d like to clarify that Paul Yates is not a filmmaker. His notability comes from his work as the founder of The Mise En Scène Company (MSC), as highlighted in independent, reliable sources like Screen Daily. These sources discuss his role in establishing and shaping MSC, which directly addresses Wikipedia's notability criteria. Comparing him to filmmakers misses the point of the article, which is focused on his contributions as a business founder and media professional. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 05:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::Ultimately this is similar to a high school head teacher or a university professor - the organisation is notable and they avean important, pivotal, irreplaceable role in the organisation as well as a figurehead so are mentioned, quoted and pictured frequently in connection with that, but unless they have something making them out individually from the many other professors / headteachers / business founders / media professionals, there isn't enough to justify a biography article here. Crowsus (talk) 09:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::Yeah sorry but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the analogy of a head teacher or university professor. The distinction is that Paul Yates founded The Mise En Scène Company, which inherently ties the company’s notability to his individual activities and vision. Unlike a head teacher, who operates within an existing framework, Paul Yates created the framework itself and has been directly involved in shaping the company’s growth and success. Reliable sources, such as Screen Daily, reference his specific actions, including founding the company and negotiating deals with notable entities like Signature Entertainment, 1091, and Bulldog Entertainment. This demonstrates that his individual contributions are pivotal and worthy of recognition on their own merits. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 14:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::Are there any sources for him outside the sphere of Mise en Scene? Crowsus (talk) 14:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::::There are government records listing his name and involvement with companies, as well as a published piece in an online travel magazine. While these might not independently establish notability, they contribute to demonstrating his activity and public presence in professional contexts beyond MSC. However, the core of his notability lies in the independent recognition of his foundational and operational role at MSC, which aligns with Wikipedia's guidelines for notable business figures.
• :::::While the majority of the independent coverage focuses on Paul Yates' role with The Mise En Scène Company, this is not unusual for business founders whose notability is tied to their entrepreneurial achievements. The sources, such as Screen Daily, are significant and reliable, explicitly highlighting his contributions, such as founding MSC and negotiating deals with major companies. This level of individual coverage goes beyond simply being "associated with" an organization. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 15:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::::I understand the concern about additional sources, but I strongly believe Yates is well within the guidelines for notability. The key sources, such as Screen Daily, Deadline, Variety all provide independent, significant coverage of his role in founding and shaping The Mise En Scène Company, which directly satisfies Wikipedia’s requirements for business figures. While it’s true that he may not have an overwhelming number of sources outside MSC, the ones that exist are reliable and substantive enough to demonstrate his notability as a business founder.
• ::::::To compare him to a head teacher or university professor misses the point: Yates is not just a figurehead or a leader within an existing organization; he created the organization and has had a direct impact on its growth and success. His role in negotiating high-profile deals with companies like Signature Entertainment and Bulldog Entertainment further distinguishes him.
• ::::::It seems we are quibbling over the technicalities of what constitutes "significant" coverage, but I believe that within the context of Wikipedia’s guidelines, the available coverage clearly supports his notability. At this point, the focus should be on the substantive and independent recognition of his work, which is the primary measure of notability. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 16:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::::::Just to focus on one of the sources the Screen Daily article provides clear evidence of Paul S.L. Yates’ notability through his active role in founding and shaping Mise en Scène Company (MSC). The article highlights Yates as a former Devilworks acquisitions coordinator, which establishes his background and expertise in the film industry. It further discusses how he and his co-founder met during their time working as night-shift porters at The Ritz London which is mad, and how, after being furloughed during the pandemic, they spent significant time developing MSC. This narrative not only emphasizes Yates' entrepreneurial initiative in response to the challenges of the pandemic but also underscores the active role he played in crafting MSC’s identity and strategy. The article also references the company's ethos, noting that Yates’ values of creativity, integrity, and passion were integral to its creation. This foundational leadership, along with the decision to launch MSC during a difficult period, positions Yates as a key figure behind the company’s success, demonstrating his independent notability in the film industry. Demosthenes1999 (talk) 16:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::::::While I have no issue whatsoever with your sincerity or tone, due to three replies - which are basically repeating yourself - to one question, at this point I refer you to WP:BLUDGEON. Crowsus (talk) 09:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::::::::HI, I didn't know about that thank you for the referral, I'll keep it mind in the future thanks. :) Demosthenes1999 (talk) 16:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Selective Merge/Redirect to The Mise En Scene Company per WP:ATD. Fails WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 10:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 01:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge as suggested. There are zero reliable sources about him, rather than his company. Bearian (talk) 17:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Merge into The Mise En Scene Company. I wouldn't revert a brief section on the CEO there since he is very well arguably a component of the company's notability, but until something changes, I don't think the individual himself is notable. You could write a decent paragraph/section on him within the article itself. DarmaniLink (talk) 02:38, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.