Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Petropoulos

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:{{la|Petropoulos}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Petropoulos Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Petropoulos}})

Refs dubious. Smells like advertising. Remagoxer (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Remagoxer (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. Remagoxer (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:50, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

• I can't understand how an article about a major company is not meeting the criteria for inclusion. Wikipedia is covering virtually every existing company, let alone historic companies like Petropoulos. I have corrected some expressions so that its does not "sound like advertising", so that there is no issue regarding this aspect. Skartsis (talk) 13:39, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

• It would be helpful to know why the nominator considers the references to be dubious. ²Phil Bridger (talk) 12:03, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• I should think that that is obvious. The 2008 text is being after the fact sourced to a 2012 book, written by the same person who is writing the wikipedia article, explaining why it is word-for-word identical to the book. The actual source is {{diff|Petropoulos|249863414|157011831|direct interviews with people by the Wikipedia editor}} who is doing primary research, writing it up here first in 2008, publishing the same in a book in 2012, and then {{diff|Petropoulos|592772178|548728205|citing the book as the source}} in the article in 2014. Uncle G (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• That actually is not a problem in and of itself - Wikipedia editors may publish in reliable venues, and said publications can be used as sources on Wikipedia. Furthermore, if the author of the source is also the Wikipedia editor, then copyright is not an issue either (though it should be properly paperworked). The problem, in this instance, is that the book in question - Greek Vehicle & Machine Manufacturers 1800 to Present: A Pictorial History seems to be an e-book lacking a publisher - or a WP:SPS - which is not a reliable source. Icewhiz (talk) 16:01, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Your assertion that this is unproblematic fails to account for the necessity of a time machine in order for it to apply to this case, ☺ as well as the fact that the first publication venue, by years, is here in Wikipedia. Uncle G (talk) 16:17, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• That would've been a problem back in 2008-2012 (but we're not discussing an AfD back in 2011, are we?). Has this been published by a reputable publisher - it wouldn't be a problem now (assuming we had copyright all squared away). The problem now is that the 2012 source seems to be a WP:SELFPUBLISHed e-book. Icewhiz (talk) 16:27, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• It's a problem now, and you keep looking at something that clearly is not the source. Read the edit summary in the aforegiven diff again. Uncle G (talk) 18:39, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

*Delete, not seeing any evidance of any real notability outside of a "book" written by the article creator.Slatersteven (talk) 15:41, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• Delete with the caviat that I agree specifically with {{U|Icewhiz}}'s rationale. P:SPS applies to the source, and as such it's not a reliable source to base notability off of. I did some research and the only other independent sources I could find were blogs. However the fact that the author of the book previously drafted content here isn't so much an AfD matter as possibly a WP:NOT one. Regardless, it's not the relevant deciding factor. Simonm223 (talk) 18:00, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• {{ping|Dr.K.}} - any chance you could do a BEFORE here in Greek? I do see some sources in Greek (and I suspect an automative assembler / manufacturer will possibly be notable on local-language sources)? Icewhiz (talk) 18:19, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• : It is "Πέτρος Πετρόπουλος ΑΕΒΕ" in Greek, though per article often Πετρόπουλος.Icewhiz (talk) 18:21, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Weak Delete now a Keep, lacks any notability that I could find, but I may be looking in the wrong places. Somebody ping me if they find anything that's considered reliable on the topic. Utopes (talk) 19:35, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

:*{{ping|Utopes}} Please check below for the list of 15 new sources that I found. Thank you. Dr. K. 21:21, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

::*Thank you Dr. K, this was very appreciated. I am now willing to change my opinion on the topic, and my above vote is now correct based on the newfound information you presented. Utopes (talk) 23:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• Strong Keep After {{u|Icewhiz}} pinged me I made a quick search and I found a myriad of specialist Greek trade websites RS referring to various aspects of the conglomerate that is Petropoulos. From bilateral deals with Isuzu Motors to agricultural, banking, and insurance news, including news of the importation of electric buses in Greece by Petropoulos. This is the problem with editors putting up for deletion Greek companies when they have no idea about Greek RS. Here are some of the many RS I found: [https://fleetnews.gr/stin-athina-to-ilektriko-leoforeio-byd-apo-tin-p-petropoylos/], [https://isuzu.gr/nomiki-simeiosi], [http://www.agrotypos.gr/index.asp?mod=articles&id=113045], [https://www.cretapost.gr/382900/symfonia-tis-trapezas-pireos-me-tin-eteria-petros-petropoulos-aeve/]. [https://www.in.gr/2009/04/27/economy/agores-epixeiriseis/petros-petropoylos-a-e-b-e-ypografi-symfwnias-me-tin-isuzu-gia-tin-antiproswpeysi-twn-epaggelmatikwn-oximatwn-sti-boylgaria/], [https://www.metaforespress.gr/mesa-mazikis-metaforas/%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-byd-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CF%80-%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BF/], [https://fleetnews.gr/stin-athina-to-ilektriko-leoforeio-byd-apo-tin-p-petropoylos/], [https://www.agronews.gr/tech/173485/allagi-igesias-gia-tin-petros-petropoulos-aeve/], [https://www.fortunegreece.com/article/simfonia-tis-trapezas-pireos-me-tin-eteria-petros-petropoulos-aeve/], [http://www.seam.gr/el/%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%8A%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B1/%CE%B3%CE%B5%CF%89%CF%81%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B1/item/47-%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%83-%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%83-%CE%B1-%CE%B5-%CE%B2-%CE%B5.html], [http://www.bhcc.gr/business-index/338-petros-petropoulos-a-e-b-e], [https://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/538556/petros-petropoylos-aebe-i-petros-petropoylos-aebe-anakoinonei-to-proteinomeno-merisma-gia-ti-xrisi-2009], [https://www.insurancedaily.gr/symfonia-tis-trapezas-pireos-tin-eteria-petros-petropoulos-aeve/]. And no, these are not blogs. They are Greek specialist trade websites and news orgs. Dr. K. 20:24, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Keep per some of Dr.K.'s sources (some aren't great, but the Greek Fortune and others seem OK) + assessment. A 100 year old company, with a history of local vehicle production (private market as well as military - all be it limited in scope and in the past) - is the sort of company that tends to be notable. {{ping|Simonm223}} in case you want to reconsider (I stand behind the SPS issue, but there are Greek sources available here).Icewhiz (talk) 20:46, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Keep based on new sources, with thanks. Simonm223 (talk) 20:55, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• {{ec}} Here are the sources I found but in a nicer package:

• [http://www.agrotypos.gr/index.asp?mod=articles&id=113045 Agrotypos (Agricultural Press)]
• [https://www.cretapost.gr/382900/symfonia-tis-trapezas-pireos-me-tin-eteria-petros-petropoulos-aeve/ Creta Post]
• [https://www.in.gr/2009/04/27/economy/agores-epixeiriseis/petros-petropoylos-a-e-b-e-ypografi-symfwnias-me-tin-isuzu-gia-tin-antiproswpeysi-twn-epaggelmatikwn-oximatwn-sti-boylgaria/ in.gr about agreement with Isuzu Motors]
• [https://www.metaforespress.gr/mesa-mazikis-metaforas/%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-byd-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CF%80-%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BF/ Metafores (Transportation) Press]
• [https://fleetnews.gr/stin-athina-to-ilektriko-leoforeio-byd-apo-tin-p-petropoylos/ Fleetnews about Petropoulos importing electric buses]
• [https://www.agronews.gr/tech/173485/allagi-igesias-gia-tin-petros-petropoulos-aeve/ Agronews]
• [https://www.fortunegreece.com/article/simfonia-tis-trapezas-pireos-me-tin-eteria-petros-petropoulos-aeve/ Fortune Greece]
• [http://www.seam.gr/el/%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%8A%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B1/%CE%B3%CE%B5%CF%89%CF%81%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B1/item/47-%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%83-%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%83-%CE%B1-%CE%B5-%CE%B2-%CE%B5.html SEAM]
• [http://www.bhcc.gr/business-index/338-petros-petropoulos-a-e-b-e BHCC]
• [https://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/538556/petros-petropoylos-aebe-i-petros-petropoylos-aebe-anakoinonei-to-proteinomeno-merisma-gia-ti-xrisi-2009 Naftemporiki news about Petropoulos]
• [https://www.insurancedaily.gr/symfonia-tis-trapezas-pireos-tin-eteria-petros-petropoulos-aeve/ Insurance Daily about the agreement of Petropoulos with the Bank of Piraeus]
• [https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=12466888 Bloomberg info about Petropoulos]
• [https://www.businessnews.gr/el/auto/jaguar-land-rover.html Business News: Jaguar Land Rover part of Petropoulos first place in Europe]
• [https://www.tovima.gr/2019/06/18/finance/i-xrysi-endekada-tou-sev-gia-tin-ellada-pou-paragei-kai-kainotomei/ To Vima: Petropoulos is number 2 in the 11 "Golden Companies" of Greece (From the Association of Greek Industrialists)]
• [http://www.ekathimerini.com/241686/article/ekathimerini/business/nd-leader-sets-task-for-business Ekathimerini ND leader sets task for business Quote: "SEV (Association of Greek Industrialists) also cited the example of 11 special cases of business initiatives in the context of “Greece of the Worthy and Values.” They were Agroknow, Petros Petropoulos, Polyeco, the Zeus cooperative at Pieria, Epexyl, Workable, Athens Partnership, Junior Achievement Greece, Dr Anargyros Mariolis who is the recipient of the WONCA Europe Award of Excellence in Health Care for 2019, Mathesis, and Kivotos tou Kosmou (World’s Ark)."]

Dr. K. 21:00, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• Keep per WP:SNOW Sources found. Thumbs up. Lightburst (talk) 21:37, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

• Keep of course, as it is an existing, well known company Skartsis (talk) 19:02, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.