Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sea Dragon Heir

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:{{la|1=Sea Dragon Heir}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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Tagged for notability since 2010. No sources. No indication it passes WP:NBOOK. UtherSRG (talk) 11:21, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy, Literature, and United Kingdom. UtherSRG (talk) 11:21, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
• Keep [https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/storm-constantine/sea-dragon-heir/ This] was relatively easy to find and there are tons of other hits, such that it's clearly likely that at least one more RS review will be found. No indication that BEFORE was conducted. Withdraw this now, please, {{U|UtherSRG}}, rather than wasting a week of AfD time when you didn't do your homework first. Jclemens (talk) 15:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
• Speedy close due to a clear lack of WP:BEFORE. - jc37 16:22, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
• Keep: There are several other reviews as noted here: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?19691]. ISFDB is always a critical place to check for reviews of novels. BOZ (talk) 19:03, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
• Redirect to Storm Constantine. This may be notable, but this needs to be demonstrated. Kirkus Reviews is a capsule review, and what I see at ISFDb is a likel decent source (Locus Magazine) and then three minor magazine and one fanzine reviews. So while this might pass NBOOK, someone needs to improve this article - and if this doesn't happen, a soft delete by redirecting until this is done will help. As things stand, this article lowers Wikipedia's quality by being a pure plot summary. This is not how encyclopedic articles should look like. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:47, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

• Comment Because Sea Dragon Heir is part of a series, I wonder if it would be beneficial to create a wikipage for the series, which would include the information currently on the SDH page. In addition to the reviews listed above, the final book in the series, The Way of Light, also has a review from [https://www.publishersweekly.com/9780312873288 Publishers Weekly]. Looking at [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?18391 ISFDB], it looks like other books in the series also have reviews from Locus, too. Significa liberdade (talk) 17:24, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
• :Edit I've looked over the Storm Constantine page, and a lot of her work is focused on the Wraeththu stories, which includes novels and short stories. According to her page, the stories have a cult following (though there isn't a link). I wonder if it would be worthwhile to have a page for the Wraeththu stories, which includes the Sea Dragon Heir trilogy. Significa liberdade (talk) 17:49, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Wikipedia:Notability (books)#Criteria says:

  A book is presumed notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, at least one of the following criteria:

  1. The book has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.

  Sources

  1. {{cite magazine |last=Murphy |first=Brian |date=April 2000 |title=Sea Dragon Heir |url=https://archive.org/details/RealmsOfFantasyV06n04200004LennySilv3r/page/n72/ |magazine=Realms of Fantasy |via=Internet Archive |page=73 |accessdate=2023-07-05 }}

     The review notes: "For the Fantasy reader who wants everything fantastic, Sea Dragon Heir has it all. Courtly politics, plots within plots, mystery, romance, sex, magic, monsters, and gods. But Constantine overlaps bits and pieces of this tale, turns things upside down, oftentimes confusing the reader in the best of all possible ways. Sea Dragon Heir is the first of three novels concerning the Lords of the Fire Drakes and the Lords of the Sea Dragons. This book is highly recommended to those of you who love a bit of meat on the Fantasy bone and are willing to approach, and sometimes cross, any and all existing borders, boundaries, and even taboos. Enjoy."

  2. {{cite magazine |date=2000-01-24 |title=Sea Dragon Heir |url=https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A59105515/ITOF?u=wikipedia&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=ca9e582c |magazine=Publishers Weekly |via=Gale |volume=247 |issue=24 |page=296 |accessdate=2023-07-05 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20230705013936/https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?p=ITOF&u=wikipedia&id=GALE%7CA59105515&v=2.1&it=r&sid=bookmark-ITOF&asid=ca9e582c |archivedate=2023-07-05 }}

     The review notes: "Constantine's new fantasy setting is finely textured, full of fierce and powerful magic, compelling characters and tangled intrigues. It should draw many new readers to the already crowded ranks of her fans."

  3. {{cite magazine |last=Cassada |first=Jackie |date=2000-02-15 |title=Sea Dragon Heir |url=https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A60041320/ITOF?u=wikipedia&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=d014a762 |magazine=Library Journal |via=Gale |volume=125 |issue=3 |page=202 |accessdate=2023-07-05 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20230705014549/https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?p=ITOF&u=wikipedia&id=GALE%7CA60041320&v=2.1&it=r&sid=bookmark-ITOF&asid=d014a762 |archivedate=2023-07-05 }}

     The review notes: "Constantine's latest novel, the first in a projected trilogy, evokes an atmosphere of tragedy and dark sensuality. The author of Wraeththu extends her gothic appeal to classic adult fantasy in a tale suffused with magic and madness."

  4. {{cite magazine |date=2000-01-01 |title=Sea Dragon Heir |url=https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/storm-constantine/sea-dragon-heir/ |magazine=Kirkus Reviews |accessdate=2023-07-05 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20230705045824/https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/storm-constantine/sea-dragon-heir/ |archivedate=2023-07-05 }}

     The review notes: "She gives birth to twins, Valraven and Ellory, and in an out-of-body experience learns that Foy is weary and only wants to die. Caradore must achieve freedom by another means. A carefully plotted, beautifully detailed fantasy family-saga spoiled by a thin, trite storyline; the midstream point-of-view switch doesn't help."

  5. {{cite magazine |last=Arden |first=Tom |date=March 2000 |title=Varieties of Hip |url=https://archive.org/details/interzone-153-2000-03-bogof-39/page/53/ |magazine=Interzone |via=Internet Archive |issue=153 |page=53 |accessdate=2023-07-05 }}

     The review notes: "For a start, Constantine really can write. To create a prose which is both lush and sensual on the one hand, and taut and economical on the other — the story moves much faster than is common in this genre is no easy task, but Constantine manages it with ease. The characters — Pharinet in particular — are not flat hero-and-villain figures but complex individuals, while the plot is no hackneyed Tolkien rip-off but genuinely intriguing. Incest figures prominently, and there is real darkness. It's all a long way from David Eddings. It's perhaps even hip — in the best sense, of course."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Sea Dragon Heir to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 05:25, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

• Keep - per Cunard. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
• Keep - per Cunard.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.