Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 March 27#Category:User hak-5

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:42, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:States with limited recognition to :Category:Non-UN states

:Nominator's rationale: The main article should be List of sovereign states not a subset.

The states intended for inclusion are the states described as "Other states".

See Category talk:States with limited recognition for further detail. Selfstudier (talk) 22:09, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose, the current name isn't that bad. With the proposed name we would need to add Cook Islands and Niue which would be odd. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
• :Cook/Niue are not in the UN system so that per se is not odd. There is an ongoing discussion re the anomaly of these entities being included as sovereign states in List of sovereign states but not included in List of states with limited recognition, they should be in both or not in either. Selfstudier (talk) 11:21, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

::* There is no real life dispute about Cook and Niue, so then the UN list is apparently not decisive in determining limited recognition. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

::*:"Other states" (ie non UN states) in the sov states list is a closer match for the entries in the limited recognition cat because the UN states included in the limited recognition list are not included in the related cat. The difference between the cat content and the "Other states" is only because of Cook/Niue and Palestine, the latter classed as UN in the sov states list, 13 - 2 + 1 = 12. I think it is clear that the UN is indeed relevant. Selfstudier (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

::::* We aren't categorizing by what is in a Wikipedia list, we are categorizing by what the situation is in real life. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose, also includes an abbreviation contrary to MOS:ACROTITLE. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 05:51, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
• :If that is the only reason, no objection if it reads "Non-United Nations states", "states not in United Nations system" or some equivalent formulation without an abbreviation.Selfstudier (talk) 10:30, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

::* {{ping|LaundryPizza03}} you may want to expand on whether the abbreviation is your only objection. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

:::*In light of the other comments, I agree that this should be kept at the current name. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:27, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose the current title is fine. Plus the Vatican City is a perfectly valid nation that to my knowledge all other countries recognize, but isn't a part of the UN. Other problematic examples are listed above. Inter&anthro (talk) 22:47, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
• Absent support, please close this. Thank you. Selfstudier (talk) 09:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
• Keep as it is -- The present name describes the status well. Most sovereign states are UN members, but not necessarily all. Most will claim to be independent, but the rest of the world regards them as the result of one country having invaded another, or being in rebellion against the recognised state. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Rename/merge all Timrollpickering (talk) 21:55, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

• Propose merging and renaming

:* :Category:Coffeehouses to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés

:* :Category:Cafés to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés

:* :Category:Coffeehouses by country to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés by country

:* :Category:Cafés by country to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés by country

{{cot|subcategories nominated too}}

:* :Category:Cafés in Argentina to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Argentina

:* :Category:Cafés in Australia to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Australia

:* :Category:Cafés in Austria to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Austria

:* :Category:Cafés in Belgium to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Belgium

:* :Category:Cafés in Bosnia and Herzegovina to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Bosnia and Herzegovina

:* :Category:Cafes in Brazil to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Brazil

:* :Category:Cafés in the Czech Republic to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in the Czech Republic

:* :Category:Cafés in Denmark to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Denmark

:* :Category:Cafés in France to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in France

:* :Category:Cafés in Germany to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Germany

:* :Category:Cafés in Hungary to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Hungary

:* :Category:Cafés in Israel to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Israel

:* :Category:Cafés in Monaco to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Monaco

:* :Category:Cafés in the Netherlands to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in the Netherlands

:* :Category:Cafés in Pakistan to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Pakistan

:* :Category:Cafés in Portugal to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Portugal

:* :Category:Cafés in Singapore to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Singapore

:* :Category:Cafés in Sweden to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Sweden

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Argentina to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Argentina

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Australia to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Australia

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Austria to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Austria

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Bosnia and Herzegovina to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Bosnia and Herzegovina

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Canada to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Canada

:* :Category:Coffee houses of China to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in China

:* :Category:Coffee houses of France to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in France

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Germany to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Germany

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Greece to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Greece

:* :Category:Coffee houses of India to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in India

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Ireland to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Ireland

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Israel to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Israel

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Italy to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Italy

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Japan to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Japan

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Norway to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Norway

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Pakistan to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Pakistan

:* :Category:Coffee houses of the Philippines to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in the Philippines

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Poland to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Poland

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Russia to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Russia

:* :Category:Coffee houses of South Africa to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in South Africa

:* :Category:Coffee houses of South Korea to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in South Korea

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Spain to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Spain

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Sweden to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Sweden

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Taiwan to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Taiwan

:* :Category:Coffee houses of Thailand to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Thailand

:* :Category:Coffee houses of the United Kingdom to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in the United Kingdom

:* :Category:Coffee houses of the United States to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in the United States

:* :Category:Coffeehouses of Vietnam to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Vietnam

:* :Category:Cafés by city to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés by city

:* :Category:Cafés in Aarhus to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Aarhus

:* :Category:Cafés in Amsterdam to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Amsterdam

:* :Category:Cafés in Berlin to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Berlin

:* :Category:Cafés in Budapest to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Budapest

:* :Category:Cafés in Copenhagen to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Copenhagen

:* :Category:Cafés in Karachi to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Karachi

:* :Category:Cafés in Lahore to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Lahore

:* :Category:Cafés in Paris to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Paris

:* :Category:Cafés in Prague to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Prague

:* :Category:Cafés in Vienna to :Category:Coffeehouses and cafés in Vienna

:* :Category:Types of coffeehouses to :Category:Types of coffeehouses and cafés

:* :Category:Types of cafés to :Category:Types of coffeehouses and cafés

:* :Category:Fictional coffeehouses to :Category:Fictional coffeehouses and cafés

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: rename/merge, coffeehouses and cafés (together in one article) are too closely related to put them in different categories. The proposed format is per User:Johnbod's suggestion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Some countries prefer one term, some the other. Some have both, without much obvious difference between them. Johnbod (talk) 20:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
• Comment I think in some countries, "cafes" are considered to be restaurants, rather than coffeehouses. Also, I think you neglected to tag :Category:Cafés to indicate it is part of this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:50, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

:::Which countries did you have in mind? The Cafe Royal was/is a very famous & expensive restaurant in London, and the Café de Paris, London a nightclub, but these don't impact the general British meaning. No doubt there are other examples. Perhaps they should not be in these categories, but I don't know a country where cafe = restaurant. Johnbod (talk) 02:04, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support. In French-speaking parts of the world, restaurants are often named "Café [X]" and serve as cafés in between mealtimes. In France, they are known as café-restaurants. There are some places called "Café [X]" which serve only as restaurants and not as cafés, but that is more of a naming quirk than a real category. I don't think it's an issue. JBchrch talk 16:05, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Football clubs in Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Football clubs in Hafar Al-Batin to :Category:Football clubs in Hafar al-Batin

:Nominator's rationale: To agree with lowercase "al" in Hafar al-Batin. Dicklyon (talk) 17:42, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Merge to :Category:Football clubs in Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia per WP:SMALLCAT. :Category:Hafar al-Batin as a potential second merge target does not even exist yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:22, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
• Pinging User:GiantSnowman who usually participates in football-related category discussions. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:27, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 08:38, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
• Merge per Marcocapelle. GiantSnowman 08:38, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) JBchrch talk 23:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|‎Wikipedians in Linthicum, Maryland}}

:Nominator's rationale: Tagged by {{u|LucasKannou}} with the edit summary {{tq|Too few people to support a location category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 17#Category:Wikipedians in Mount Juliet, Tennessee}}, but not listed. I agree the category should be deleted for that rationale, so am adopting the nomination and listing it here. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) JBchrch talk 00:21, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Wikipedians in Hagerstown, Maryland}}

:Nominator's rationale: Too few people to support a location category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 17#Category:Wikipedians in Mount Juliet, Tennessee . * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:17, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:55, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:52, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Wikipedians in Annapolis}}

:Nominator's rationale: Too few people to support a location category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 17#Category:Wikipedians in Mount Juliet, Tennessee. If kept, rename to :Category:Wikipedians in Annapolis, Maryland per C2D. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

::I will keep the category for my templates that I created. LucasKannou (talk) 15:12, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

::User:LucasKannou/Templates I created is incorrectly placed in these categories and should be removed. User:LucasKannou is the page that should be in the categories, like it's doing for 2 others. Gonnym (talk) 16:17, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename to "in the Holy Roman Empire Timrollpickering (talk) 09:10, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|18th-century bishops in Germany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|17th-century bishops in Germany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|16th-century bishops in Germany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|15th-century bishops in Germany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|14th-century bishops in Germany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|13th-century bishops in Germany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|12th-century bishops in Germany}}

:Nominator's rationale: Germany was not a state in these centuries. It belonged to the Holy Roman Empire. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:31, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Laurel Lodged is of course quite right, but Germany was still an entity and we have many German occupational categories before 1870. I think there is a tacit agreement that unpicking the German categories is impractical. We could have 18th-century bishops in Prussia, but what would we do about all the small states? For clergy how defining was the Holy Roman Empire? Would it be better to merge these categories with :Category:German bishops? Rathfelder (talk) 10:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
• Rename all to Holy Roman Empire, per discussion above. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:08, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Laurel Lodged|Rathfelder}} what is your opinion about this rename? Marcocapelle (talk) 03:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

• So what about :Category:18th-century German bishops and similar categories? Rathfelder (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

:*They're grand. A German national is still a German national. A German without a state is still a German. A German in the Holy Roman Empire is still a German. There were many nationalities in the HRE. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

::* The concept of a (German or other) nationality is quite anachronistic in the Holy Roman Empire. At best we might classify people by language that they spoke, but that may become fuzzy too. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

:::*I dont think it is sensible to deal with these categories in isolation. If we want to abolish German categories before 1870 that needs a much wider discussion. Rathfelder (talk) 22:34, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

:::*:Why? What other countries are impacted by this nomination? Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:58, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support renames as suggested by Marco. Laurel Lodged (talk) 06:57, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
• Rename all to :Category:18th-century bishops in Holy Roman Empire and merge in any other German bishops categories such as :Category:18th-century German bishops. There ought to be a Lutheran tree as well. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:17, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|User hak-5}}

:Nominator's rationale: The category is never used, because Template:User hak-5 has not been create yet. Q28 (talk) 06:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Speedy delete as C1; this should never have been tagged {{tl|empty category}} by {{u|R'n'B}} as it is not the sort of category that template is meant to apply to. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.