Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 27

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 23:47, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Treaties of the medieval Islamic world to :Category:Medieval treaties

:Nominator's rationale: A treaty is by definition a legal agreement signed by (at least) two sovereign states. (Edit: more strictly speaking, a treaty can also be signed between a state actor and a non-state actor, like a terrorist organisation or rebel movement). "the medieval Islamic world" was neither a state actor nor a non-state actor, so this is WP:NONDEFINING for treaties. (Note: I previously CfD'd this as part of a package, but the discussion became confused and complicated, so I withdrew it. I'm taking it one at a time now). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support, medieval treaties categories are subdivided by country and the medieval Islamic world is not a country. It also does not concern a topic that is in any way particular to or separate in the medieval Islamic world. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :Agreed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:26, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support. I have nominated a parent and two siblings at May 28#Foreign relations of the medieval Islamic world. – Fayenatic London 16:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose There is no requirement that a treaty category be strictly limited to a state. The argument you are making could be made against the existing :Category:Medieval treaties and :Category:Ancient treaties which do not concern a specific state, right?. I also see :Category:Treaties of ancient Greece, which was not really a unified state. Al-Andalusi (talk) 00:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
• :@Al-Andalusi Strictly speaking, a treaty can also be signed between a state actor and a non-state actor like a terrorist organisation or rebel movement, yes. "medieval Islamic world" was neither a state actor nor a non-state actor.
• ::Category:Medieval treaties and :Category:Ancient treaties are just about treaties between state actors and/or non-state actors by period. Because treaties carry specific dates at which they were signed (and later ratified), categorisation by period is possible without being arbitrary.
• :
  
• ::Category:Treaties of ancient Greece is an interesting case (probably comparable to :Category:Treaties of al-Andalus). I might add that its parent :Category:Interstate relations in ancient Greece seems to be unique and has no equivalent either. Per WP:OTHERSTUFF, if you think such categories should exist, or neither, you are free to CfD that category / those categories as well. Depending on your rationale, I might support your nomination for deletion as well. Similarly, :Category:Military history of ancient Greece and :Category:Military history of al-Andalus might be co-nominated as well for being a military histories of regions which were rarely a unified state, and more often fragmented into functionally independent states, which often fought against each other. Nevertheless, I think nobody will dispute that Ancient Greece or Al-Andalus are legitimate historiographical concepts, and that their associated category trees have a certain categorisation legitimacy and usefulness up to a certain point. The question would be where that legitimacy/usefulness as a category tree ends. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
• ::PS: Alright, I've already done it myself: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 29#Category%3ATreaties of ancient Greece. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
• ::* Further note: the content of the category stays in the tree of :Category:Medieval Islamic world anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
• ::*:As far as this CfM is concerned: yes. As far as Fayenatic's CfM of its parent :Category:Foreign relations of the medieval Islamic world is concerned: no. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: downmerge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 23:47, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose downmerging :Category:1st-century rulers in Europe to :Category:1st-century monarchs in Europe

:* Propose downmerging :Category:2nd-century rulers in Europe to :Category:2nd-century monarchs in Europe

:* Propose downmerging :Category:3rd-century rulers in Europe to :Category:3rd-century monarchs in Europe

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 0 P, 1 C. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:56, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support Small and growth is unlikely. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support, redundant category layer (even while governors could still be added). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 23:49, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Marcomannic rulers to :Category:Marcomannic monarchs

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent :Category:Monarchs in Europe. And because "Marcomannic monarchs" is such a great alliteration. Nah, just kidding. ;) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:50, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Question {{ping|Nederlandse Leeuw}} Was Catualda a monarch? - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :As far as the Romans were concerned, yes. He deposed king Marboduus in order to take his place. He reigned for a brief time. Article Vibilius has him as a "king": {{tq|According to Tacitus, Vibilius deposed the Marcomannic king Catualda, who had himself deposed Maroboduus in 18 AD.}} I guess we could also Rename to "Marcomannic kings" if we wanted to. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :::s:en:Ab_excessu_divi_Augusti_(Annales)/Liber_II#LXII :s:en:The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_2#62
• ::Tacitus repeatedly identifies Maroboduus as a "king":
• ::* 26: {{tq|regemque Maroboduum/king Maroboduus}}
• ::* 44: {{tq|set Maroboduum regis nomen invisum apud popularis/But the title of king rendered Maroboduus hated among his countrymen}}
• ::* 45: {{tq|e regno etiam Marobodui/(even) from the kingdom of Maroboduus}}.
• ::Tacitus does not explicitly identify Catualda as a "king", but it is clear that he temporarily took Maroboduus' place on the Marcomanni throne. Translators Church & Brodribb 1876 add the word 'king' and 'kings' in two places not found in the original Latin, however.
• ::* 62: {{tq|Catualda, profugus olim vi Marobodui et}} {{xt|tunc dubiis rebus}} (lit. 'when in doubtful circumstances') {{tq|eius ultionem ausus./Catualda [had] formerly been driven into exile by the might of Maroboduus, and who now,}} {{!xt|when the king's fortunes were declining}}, {{tq|ventured on revenge. He (...) burst into the palace and into an adjacent fortress.}} This is Catualda displacing Maroboduus from his seat of power, driving him into exile in Italy.
• ::* 63 {{tq|(...) Maroboduus, now utterly deserted, had no resource but in the mercy of Caesar. (...) as a most famous king in former days [clarissimum quondam regem] (...) Maroboduus was kept at Ravenna.}} {{tq|Catualda had a like downfall and no better refuge. Driven out soon afterwards (...) he was received and sent to Forum Julii, a colony of Narbonensian Gaul. The barbarians who followed the two}} {{!xt|kings...}} {{tq|[barbari utrumque comirati...]}}.
• ::So while Tacitus never explicitly calls him a rex (as the translators do), he treats Catualda and Maroboduus the same, as men who came into power within the Marcomanni kingdom, then had a downfall and had to go in exile in the Roman Empire. Scholars:
• ::* [https://www.jstor.org/stable/283994 Gowing (1990) p. 325-326] analysed how Tacitus' goal was to show the Roman client king system didn't work, that Maroboduus was {{tq|simply another failed client king}}, and that {{tq|Tacitus notes that Catualda soon suffered the same fate as his predecessor and was later settled together with his followers across the Danube}}.
• ::* Tejral (2018) similarly writes: {{tq|...antique written reports on retinues of the deposed barbarian rulers Maroboduus and soon after him Catualda, who were settled by the Romans on the barbarian shore of the Danube...}}.
• ::* András Mócsy (2014), p. 14: {{tq|Tiberius had Maroboduus overthrown by Drusus. The German king fled to the empire, where he was granted asylum and interned in Ravenna. Shortly afterwards the new king, Catualda, who had been installed by Drusus, was also overthrown, and he, too,, was given asylum in the empire.}} Gowing points out that Tacitus omitted to mention that Drusus (Drusus Julius Caesar, son of Tiberius) was the one behind the resettlement arrangement of emperor Tiberius' ally Maroboduus (which he does mention about Vannius, Claudius' ally), and Mócsy concludes that Catualda was Drusus' ally, that Drusus was behind Catualda's overthrow of Maroboduus (Tiberius' former ally), and Catualda thus became the new Marcomanni king as a client of Drusus (Seager 2005 drew the same conclusion). Gowing observed that in each of these three cases, a Roman general failed to assist the client king that was their ally, and after the expulsion of each client king, he sought refuge with this Roman general who was supposed to have protected him.
• ::That should suffice. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
• ::: Jeez, {{ping|Nederlandse Leeuw}}, I would have accepted "Yes"! Rename & Reparent per nom and detailed reply. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
• ::::Sorry! I got a little carried away. :p Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:58, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
• Rename and re-parent per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:25, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 23:51, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:4th-century rulers of Brittany to :Category:4th-century monarchs of Brittany

:* Propose renaming :Category:5th-century rulers of Brittany to :Category:5th-century monarchs of Brittany

:* Propose renaming :Category:6th-century rulers of Brittany to :Category:6th-century monarchs of Brittany

:* Propose renaming :Category:7th-century rulers of Brittany to :Category:7th-century monarchs of Brittany

:* Propose renaming :Category:9th-century rulers of Brittany to :Category:9th-century monarchs of Brittany

:* Propose renaming :Category:10th-century rulers of Brittany to :Category:10th-century monarchs of Brittany

::* Re-parent All from {{xt|Category:Foo-th-century rulers in Europe}} to {{xt|Category:Foo-th-century monarchs in Europe}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent :Category:Monarchs of Brittany. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:19, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:C2C. I'd also be open to merging some of these per WP:SMALLCAT in a subsequent nomination. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:50, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• Rename per nom and concur with RevelationDirect on smallcat issue. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:27, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 23:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Dutch manuscripts to :Category:Dutch-language manuscripts

:Nominator's rationale: To match actual contents. "Dutch" was mistaken to be "about the Netherlands" (by topic) and "in the Netherlands" (by area/location), including the :Category:Manuscripts of Leiden University Library, which, however, is in :Category:Manuscripts by collection. Renaming to :Category:Dutch-language manuscripts thus also avoids future confusion about what "Dutch" means here. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Comment/Question More specifically, 5 of the 6 are in Middle Dutch. (De Gruytters carillon book is the exception.) {{ping|Nederlandse Leeuw}} Would it make sense to make this more specific and purge the 1 outlier? - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :Only if we found enough other items for a different category to put the outlier in. Per Marcocapelle we shouldn't orphan De Gruytters carillon book. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :: Rename as nominated. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. I don't think it is a good idea to orphan one of these articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 23:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Former Critics of Islam}}

:Nominator's rationale: This currently holds Joram van Klaveren, a former critic who converted to Islam. There exists :Category:Former Muslim critics of Islam (former Muslims who became critics) but no other "former" categories in :Category:Critics of religions. I have added the member page to {{c|Dutch critics of Islam}}. – Fayenatic London 21:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• If not deleted, the page should be renamed to :Category:Former critics of Islam. – Fayenatic London 21:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, with no objection against re-creation if populated with at least 3 items, and a lowercase c per Fayenatic. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Comment {{xt|Former Muslim critics of Islam}} means: "people who used to be Muslim, but are no longer Muslim, and nowadays criticise Islam". It does not mean: "Muslims who used to criticise Islam in the past, but nowadays no longer criticise Islam." Misinterpretation is understandable in this case, although the category trees should be clear. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• :Technically, van Klaveren is a "former Christian critic of Islam": when he was a Christian, he criticised Islam. But then he converted to Islam and (obviously) stopped criticising it. Although it is possible for any adherent of any religion to criticise (aspects of) their own religion, we usually don't categorise them as such. E.g. :Category:Critics of Islamism is full of Muslims who criticise political/theocratic manifestations of Islam, but not necessary the religion as a whole, which they tend to consider a private matter. If van Klaveren publishes a book tomorrow criticising ISIS or the Ayatollah regime of Iran, we may well put him in :Category:Critics of Islamism. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Delete Per WP:SMALLCAT for now. I am unsure if this would be defining if we had a larger group. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:01, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• Delete, in general "former critics" of anything is barely defining. Under normal circumstances people do not publicly announce they stop criticizing. In this particular case it is the conversion that is defining, not stopping criticism. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :Well said. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 00:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:French chronicles to :Category:Chronicles about France

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent :Category:History books about France. This is in the :Category:Works by topic tree. I've split off :Category:French-language chronicles to make the distinction clear. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:23, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support Makes it clearer. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 00:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lithuanian chronicles to :Category:Chronicles about Lithuania

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent :Category:History books about Lithuania (and :Category:Chronicles by topic, which I just added). Compare :Category:Latin chronicles about Poland. These chronicles are about Lithuania as a topic; they are not written in Lithuanian or necessarily by Lithuanians. Renaming avoids confusion with :Category:Chronicles by language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom (possibly further rename to "Grand Duchy of"). I think the article Complete Collection of Russian Chronicles should be moved to the European parent. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
• :That last suggestion is a pretty good one, the PSRL collection transcends boundaries and those boundaries have move a lot since the chronicles were written. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 00:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Austria to :Category:Speed skating venues and :Category:Speed skating in Austria

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Canada to :Category:Speed skating in Canada and move Emera Oval to :Category:Speed skating venues

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in China to :Category:Speed skating in China

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in France to :Category:Speed skating venues and :Category:Speed skating in France

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Germany to :Category:Speed skating in Germany and move Riessersee to :Category:Speed skating venues

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Italy to :Category:Speed skating in Italy and move Ice Rink Piné and Lake Misurina to :Category:Speed skating venues

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Kazakhstan to :Category:Speed skating in Kazakhstan

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in the Netherlands to :Category:Speed skating in the Netherlands and move Jaap Edenbaan to :Category:Speed skating venues

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Russia to :Category:Speed skating in Russia

:*Propose merging :Category:Speed skating venues in Sweden to :Category:Speed skating venues and :Category:Speed skating in Sweden

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:32, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Merge for Now with no objection to recreation if any ever grow to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge and delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:*Propose deleting :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues by country

:*Propose merging :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues in Canada to :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues

:*Propose merging :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues in Hungary to :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues and :Category:Ice hockey venues in Hungary

:*Propose deleting :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues in the United States

::*and move Harry C. Batchelder Rink, Hilltop Rink and UNH Ice Rink to :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Delete the United States category as it is populated with baseball/football stadiums that have hosted ice hockey events once or sparsely. Move the articles that were primarily ice hockey venues to :Category:Outdoor ice hockey venues. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support Both per WP:OCVENUE and WP:SMALLCAT. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Literature on vexillology. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Flag literature to :Category:Literature on vexillology

:Nominator's rationale: Same topic. :Category:Literature on vexillology is more specific, and the older of the two. :Category:Literature by topic should certainly be kept, but just ":Category:Flags" is not specific enough. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Merge and add parent per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support Per WP:OVERLAPCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in France to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in France

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in Italy to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in Italy

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in Japan to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in Japan

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in Norway to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in Norway

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in Russia to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in Russia

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in South Korea to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in South Korea

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in Sweden to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in Sweden

:*Propose merging :Category:Curling venues in Turkey to :Category:Curling venues and :Category:Curling in Turkey

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:15, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Merge for Now With no objection to recreating any that grow to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Countries and territories where Albanian is an official language. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Albanian-speaking countries and territories to :Category:Countries and territories where Albanian is an official language

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent :Category:Countries and territories by official language. All 4 items are/were countries/territories where Albanian is/was an official language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support less subjective about what percentage need to speak it when, when it's the official status. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• :@RevelationDirect now that you mention it, what should we do about List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina? It seems to arbitrarily take 5% as "significant", which is full-on WP:OR. All these municipalities have Hungarian as an official language by default because they are situated in the Vojvodina. That seems a much more objective and defining element.
• :Its category is :Category:Hungarian communities in Serbia. :Category:Hungarian-speaking territorial units in Serbia redirects to it, which is a virtually identical name to :Category:Hungarian-speaking territorial units in Croatia, which was recently renamed to :Category:Populated places in Croatia where Hungarian is an official language. It's also very similar to :Category:Hungarian communities in Slovakia, recently renamed to :Category:Municipalities in Slovakia where Hungarian is an official language. So I would propose a rename to :Category:Municipalities in Serbia where Hungarian is an official language. But I'm afraid the main article List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina should be WP:TNTd first, because the whole angle of arbitrarily "significant" demographics which it is based on is just, well, arbitrary. What do you think? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• ::5% in that list does seem a little arbitrary, unless "significant minority" is an official term. I'm wondering if the issue is just with the title of that article though: while not everything there would appear to belong in "List of Hungarian communities in Vojvodina", List of communities in Vojvodina by Hungarian population (or something similar) would have more truth in advertising. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:47, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
• :::I think "significant minority" is completely WP:OR, and legally irrelevant anyway, because all municipalities in Vojvodina are officially bilingual. (Comparing to other European countries, the threshold percentages at which a minority language is entitled to local co-official status varies from 30% (Belgium) to 15% (Slovakia), but I've never seen as little as 5% before. But again, irrelevant in Vojvodina's case). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
• Update siblings about Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil have recently been renamed to {{xt|...where Fooian is an official language}} for the same or similar reasons as in the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Chronicles about Poland. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:15, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Polish chronicles to :Category:Latin chronicles about Poland

:Nominator's rationale: Ok so I created :Category:Latin chronicles about Poland as a separate category with the idea of making a distinction between "Latin chronicles about Poland" and "Polish-language chronicles about Poland", but now it turns out that each item in the category was actually in Latin haha. Well I guess the new category I created has a more precise name, and :Category:Polish chronicles should be taken out of :Category:West Slavic chronicles because there is nothing "Slavic" about texts written in Latin. Other than that, this should just be merged. I do realise, however, that the interwikis may no longer be valid, because e.g. :pl:Kategoria:Polskie kroniki has a mix of Latin and Polish-language texts.Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Polish chronicles to :Category:Chronicles about Poland

:Nominator's rationale (amended): I concluded it is best to rename/rescope this {{xt|by topic}}, and treat {{xt|about Poland}} as the topic, per WP:C2C parent :Category:History books about Poland. See reply to Marcocapelle below for explanation. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:41, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Merge or reverse merge per nom. Presumably the page history of the older category should be kept. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• :@Marcocapelle I've been thinking a bit more about it, and I've now established :Category:Chronicles by topic, in which "about [country]" can be a topic. I've nominated :Category:Lithuanian chronicles for renaming to :Category:Chronicles about Lithuania, and :Category:French chronicles for renaming to :Category:Chronicles about France. We could do the same here. Instead of merging, we rename :Category:Polish chronicles to :Category:Chronicles about Poland, we manually move all items to its child :Category:Latin chronicles about Poland, and we just look for non-Latin items to populate it with or wait for someone else to do it. This way we can keep the interwikis as well. Would you agree with changing the nomination that way? If you hadn't commented yet, I may have BOLDly done it already, but you already commented, and I'm worried about creating a SMALLCAT with 0 items and 1 child. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Nomination amended per rationale given above. Meanwhile, I've also nominated :Category:German chronicles to be renamed to :Category:Chronicles about Germany. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support amended proposal, consistent with nomination above and meanwhile other nominations. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
• Update Sibling :Category:Lithuanian chronicles has been renamed to :Category:Chronicles about Lithuania; sibling :Category:French chronicles has been renamed to :Category:Chronicles about France. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:07, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Olympic Egyptian women's beach volleyball players to :Category:Olympic beach volleyball players for Egypt and :Category:Egyptian women's volleyball players

:Nominator's rationale: Intersection not appearing at other places in the Olympic competitors tree. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 12:09, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support Really per the spirit of WP:C2C. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose splitting :Category:Royal families of the Americas to :Category:Royal families in North America and :Category:Royal families in South America

:* Propose splitting :Category:Royalty in the Americas to :Category:Royalty in North America and :Category:Royalty in South America

:Nominator's rationale: there is no reason to create supercontinent categories here, we do not do this for Eurasia either. See also simultaneous CfMs Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category%3AAssassinated_politicians_in_the_Americas and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category:Monarchs in the Americas. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:06, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

::@Marcocapelle FYI. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Split per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Split per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Didn't the Spanish royal family technically span the two continents for a while?★Trekker (talk) 02:15, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

:* That would not be a defining characteristic for them. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:41, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Sure. But I dont see why categorization by continent is helpful at all in these cases.★Trekker (talk) 07:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

::::It's worth looking at the :Category:European monarchs precedent if you'd like to know the rationale behind it. I agree that in the case of monarchs continents are kind of arbitrary, but the current thinking seems to be that the continent in which the monarch usually resided/resides counts. So Margrethe II of Denmark is a monarch in Europe, but not a monarch in North America, despite Greenland (probably also because Greenland is not sovereign). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Monarchs by continent. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Monarchs in the Americas to :Category:Monarchs by continent

:Nominator's rationale: there is no reason to create supercontinent categories here, we do not do this for Eurasia either. See also simultaneous CfM Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category%3AAssassinated_politicians_in_the_Americas. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

::@Marcocapelle FYI. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:15, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:05, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:10th-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:10th-century BC kings of Aram-Damascus

:* Propose renaming :Category:9th-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:9th-century BC kings of Aram-Damascus

:* Propose renaming :Category:8th-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:8th-century BC kings of Aram-Damascus

:Nominator's rationale: rename per actual name of the territory Aram-Damascus. This was part of a broader rename discussion at WP:CFDS. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:45, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}

• :Category:10th-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:10th-century BC kings of Syria – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLE. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:06, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
• :Category:9th-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:9th-century BC kings of Syria
• :Category:8th-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:8th-century BC kings of Syria
• :Category:2nd-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:2nd-century BC kings of Syria
• :Category:1st-century BC Kings of Syria to :Category:1st-century BC kings of Syria
• :Category:20th-century Kings of Syria to :Category:20th-century kings of Syria
• {{ping|Hey man im josh}} the 8th-, 9th- and 10th- BC categories should also be changed from Syria to Aram-Damascus. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

{{cob}}

: {{ping|Hey man im josh}} pinging nominator at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Rename WP:C2D. Would also be open to merging in a future nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:13, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Assassinated politicians by continent. editors don't see the benefit of grouping N and S America. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 01:38, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Assassinated politicians in the Americas to :Category:Assassinated politicians by continent

:Nominator's rationale: merge, there is no reason to create supercontinent categories here, we do not do this for Eurasia either. Earlier there was a rename discussion at WP:CFDS, but we can better have that discussion together with the Asian, European and African siblings, maybe later. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Eureka (2006 TV series). (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Eureka (American TV series) to :Category:Eureka (2006 TV series)

:Nominator's rationale: rename using a far clearer disambiguation, in order to distinguish it from Eureka! (2022 TV series). This was opposed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}

• :Category:Eureka (American TV series) to :Category:Eureka (2006 TV series) – C2D. Gonnym (talk) 09:14, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
• : Oppose speedy Main article was only recently moved and without discussion, and thus C2D doesn't apply. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 07:53, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
• :: Thank you user:Armbrust for your constant vigilance. I suggest that this should go ahead under C2B instead, as we should follow the article's disambiguation from its current ambiguity, cf. other uses at Eureka#Film_and_television. – Fayenatic London 22:02, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
• ::* Support moving, "American TV series" is obviously too ambiguous. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

{{cob}}

: {{ping|Gonnym|Armbrust|Fayenatic london}} pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:12, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Rename. I had meant to process this from the Speedy page under C2B. – Fayenatic London 10:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:*Propose deleting {{lc|Bandy players in Finland by club}}

::*Propose deleting {{lc|Borgå Akilles players}}

::*Propose deleting {{lc|Tornio PV players}}

::*Propose deleting {{lc|Warkauden Pallo -35 players}}

:Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT. All players are already in :Category:Finnish bandy players. –Aidan721 (talk) 00:19, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:15, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:*Propose merging :Category:Bandy venues in Hungary to :Category:Bandy venues and :Category:Bandy in Hungary

:*Propose merging :Category:Bandy venues in Kazakhstan to :Category:Bandy venues and :Category:Bandy in Kazakhstan and move Yunost Stadium (Oral) to :Category:Sports venues in Kazakhstan

:*Propose merging :Category:Bandy venues in the United States to :Category:Bandy venues and :Category:Bandy in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Do not need to merge to Sports venues in country (except the one noted case) as they are already in that tree. –Aidan721 (talk) 00:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:36, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
• Merge for now With no objection to recreating if any ever reach 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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