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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 6#Category:Television meteorologists

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= February 6 =

== Category:Actors from London by locality ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was:

Dummy section since I erroneously told the bot to process this nomination using the wrong day. The correct discussion is at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 5#Category:Actors from London by locality. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Geneseo Knights football ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 22:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Geneseo Knights football to :Category:Geneseo Knights

:Nominator's rationale: Only one page in category for a long defunct program. Let'srun (talk) 19:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  • Keep. Part of well-established categorization scheme. Potential for growth. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:49, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep per Jweiss11. SportsGuy789 (talk) 20:54, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
  • :Support per nom. There's no need to have a category with a single subcategory. It's unhelpful for navigation. "Potential for growth" has been depreciated. Mason (talk) 01:26, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom, redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
  • :Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:26, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge for Now It was created in 2019, the potential for growth doesn't seem very imminent but no objection to recreation if a few relevant biographies articles are ever created. . - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:51, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Manhattan Athletic Club football seasons ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:43, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Manhattan Athletic Club football seasons}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one page in category. Let'srun (talk) 18:57, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Prosecutors general ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: No consensus to merge. I don't see the point in dragging this out another week when it's already been idle for two weeks without any discussion. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Prosecutors general to :Category:Attorneys general

:* Propose merging :Category:Prosecutors general by nationality to :Category:Attorneys general by country

:Nominator's rationale: My understanding is that these are effectively synonyms for the same general role, per Attorney general Mason (talk) 22:29, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Native American people from the San Francisco Bay Area ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. (I.e. uphold previous closure.) (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:36, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Native American people from the San Francisco Bay Area to :Category:Native American people from California

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Not a defining intersection between part of california and ethnicity. Mason (talk) 05:18, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

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::Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:46, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  • Keep - It's awfully disappointing to have this Category blithely dismissed as merely a random intersection - with no actual discussion, just the all-too-easy "Merge per nom". In reality, it reflects the fact that Native Americans who live in the San Francisco Bay Area are understood to be part of a regional community. {{pb}}The term "Bay Area Native American community" (or some variant) is regularly invoked, as is readily apparent from a wide assortment of online articles and other items that discuss one or another aspect of the SF Bay Area's Native American community. Many of them refer to the "SF Bay Area" right in the headline. I will append a small sampling of these below.{{pb}}I should also mention that I listen regularly to a weekly radio program called "Bay Native Circle" - which is produced by and for Native Americans in the SF Bay Area.{{pb}}I want to begin with something from right here on Wikipedia:
  • :Ohlone#Indian_People_Organizing_for_Change
  • :Indian People Organizing for Change (IPOC) is a community-based organization in the San Francisco Bay Area. Its members, including Ohlone tribal members and conservation activists, work together in order to accomplish social and environmental justice within the Bay Area American Indian community.
  • It's also worth noting that we have the Wikipedia :Category:Native Americans in the San Francisco Bay Area - created by another editor - which should serve as an additional, very obvious parent cat for this Category. I think we can safely assume that editor would also weigh in against merging this category.{{pb}}Lastly, I just want to remind editors who don't live here to bear in mind that California is a really large state, in terms of both geography (over 1000 miles from top to bottom) and population (40 million people!). It's more like a whole country, with a variegated population - and a full range of landforms and diverse regional cultures, as well. The San Francisco Bay Area stands out as one of the more distinctive in that regard.
  • Okay, here's that small sample of items I promised above:

1) American Indian Cultural District of San Francisco - Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanIndianCulturalDistrict


The purpose of the American Indian Cultural District is to honor and celebrate the San Francisco Bay Area Native American Community's culture, history, and contributions.

2) Muwekma Ohlone Tribe


https://www.muwekma.org


The present-day Muwekma Ohlone Tribe is comprised of surviving American Indian lineages aboriginal to the San Francisco Bay region who trace their ancestry through the Missions Dolores, Santa Clara, and San Jose.

3) Ohlone women fighting to get back their land, cultural heritage in Bay Area


https://abc7news.com/ohlone-women-te-land-trust-indigenous-peoples-day-native-americans/11109855/

4) Bay Area's indigenous community builds a better future by reconnecting with their past


https://abc7news.com/native-american-indigenous-peoples-what-is-san-francisco-people/11268455/

5) "Bay Area American Indian Two-Spirits (BAAITS) exists to restore and recover

the role of Two-Spirit people within the American Indian/First Nations community..."


https://www.baaits.org


(For those who may not be familiar with the term "Two-Spirit", it's a term used in many Native American cultures for individuals who would be referred to as LGBTQ in the mainstream world.)

  • There are lots more such examples, but I think these should suffice.
    Anomalous+0 (talk) 02:51, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • That may result in a :Category:Ohlone people which would be a far more relevant intersection than a general category by region. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :I would be in favor of creating categories by specific groups (is that the right word?) of Native American people instead which region they happen to live near. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :I've gone ahead and created :Category:Ohlone people. However, that doesn't obviate the need for :Category:Native American people from the San Francisco Bay Area, because only about half of the articles that belong in it are for people of Ohlone ancestry. SEE BELOW for further response. ~ Anomalous+0
  • Note we already have :Category:Native Americans in the San Francisco Bay Area.--User:Namiba 12:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :Yes, I made note of that above - and pointed out that it should serve as an additional, very obvious parent cat for this Category.
  • :And as I also said above, I would assume that the editor who created that category would also weigh in against merging this category. I have refrained from contacting him/her about this CFD discussion, but since you brought it up, {{ping|Namiba}}, would you like to do so yourself? Anomalous+0 (talk) 12:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
  • ::You might have missed that your above comment is replying to Namiba themself. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
  • I will start my response by saying that living in the SF Bay Area is not mere happenstance, merely an accident of geography - especially for Native Americans. The SF Bay Area comprises 9 counties surrounding the San Francisco Bay - which has always served as a focal point for people in the region, dating back centuries for the Indigenous population. It has developed a socio-cultural milieu of its own that sets it apart from the rest of California.{{pb}}That is what is reflected in the many references to the SF Bay Area Native American community that I highlighted in the sample above. It's not just something I dreamed up - so please don't dismiss it just because it doesn't happen to fit neatly into preconceived notions of what constitutes an "acceptable" category. Anomalous+0 (talk) 00:11, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom. A couple of thoughts here. One, all of the sources presented above give evidence that this is a community, but it does not give evidence that this is a defining community. WP:DEFINING is not a synonym for notable. To be kept, we need evidence that individuals in the community are defined by being in the community. That is a different standard from the existence of the community being well-documented. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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::As the original nominator, I want to chime in because I think that @Anomalous+0 is not understanding what the debate is about. To successfully make the case that the category should be kept, you'd need to demonstrate that people as individuals are regularly being defined as Native American people from the Bay Area. No one is disputing that the community is notable, which is effectively what you're arguing for here. You are making a good case for the page :Category:Native Americans in the San Francisco Bay Area, but that is not the category under discussion. If it were, I'd have voted to keep the category. However, they are different. It isn't a question of whether the category is acceptable, it is a question of whether people as individuals are defined by being native american from a specific area within the state of california. Mason (talk) 01:39, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Old Cities of Mon people ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: disperse. There is clear consensus that the category should be deleted, but not where the category members should go. Therefore the members should be recategorised on a case-by-case basis. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:38, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Old Cities of Mon people}}

:Nominator's rationale: I kind of feel bad for nominating this category, because it's a perfectly valid concept and it helps make Mon history and culture ever so slightly more visible, but the current title is just so vague. How old is "old", and what makes a city a "Mon city"? It's basically a variation on "Category:Cities historically associated with the Mon people", and "associated with" categories tend to be frowned upon here.

I don't necessarily want to delete this category, but I can't think of any alternative that doesn't have its own problems. "Category:Cities with a majority Mon population that existed before X year" is the best I can come up with, but any cutoff date would be kind of arbitrary. It would also leave out cases like Lamphun and Bago, Myanmar, which are no longer majority-Mon, but were both capitals of important Mon-speaking kingdoms.

Trying to address that with "Category:Capitals of former Mon-speaking kingdoms" would include both Bago and Lamphun, but it would also exclude any historically important cities that were never capitals.

I just don't see a way to keep this category with the same scope, unfortunately. -- 3 kids in a trenchcoat (talk) 07:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

  • Selectively merge to :Category:Mon people which appears to be a topic category. Only a few articles need to be recategorized as other articles do not even bother to mention Mon. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:41, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Split to "Category:Capitals of former Mon kingdoms" and "Category: Cities of former Mon kingdoms" might work to address an issue you brought up. I think given that Mon (and Category:Mon people) is a culture and historical topic, it would be fine not to describe as specifically Mon-speaking or Mon-majority cities. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 16:19, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Underwater diving ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: implement the original proposal. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:55, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Renaming several related categories:

I propose renaming a substantial group of related categories. I refer to those categories which are subcategories of :Category:Underwater diving, but use the word "diving" without "underwater" (or some other disambiguating qualifier, like "professional" or "military", etc) in their names, and are sometimes ambiguous to some degree. The use of the two terms makes it confusing and more difficult to remember the various subcategories. It would be a lot simpler if slightly more tedious to type if they were all renamed to use "underwater diving", and the suggested options from hot cat will be more useful. For example :Category:Diving equipment would become :Category:Underwater diving equipment and no-one would think it was relevant to springboards. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 18:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:Request: Can you please identify the specific categories? Twinkle is extremely helpful for nomination formatting.Mason (talk) 19:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

::Listed below. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 11:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Diving > Underwater diving

Diver > Underwater diver

Special cases

These are what I found. I think I got them all. They include a few cases that are not quite according to the original description, but are similar in concept and could be dealt with at the same time. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 11:22, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:Note: None of these are tagged. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:12, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: I have tagged the subcategories.
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::IDK, wouldn't it be more straightforward to disambiguate to diving (sports) and diving (underwater)? Mason (talk) 02:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

:::I don't know either. Why would it be more straightforward? Diving (underwater) and underwater diving seem effectively identical. Diving (sports) seems a useful disambiguator for the jumping into the water activity, which may also be the primary topic (never been established, but who knows?) if there is one. There is also an underwater diving activity called Sport diving (sport), and sport diving has historically been used as a synonym for recreational diving, so things are a little confusing at times. My work is in underwater diving, and I have no strong opinions on categorisation of topics for other forms of diving. I can't see any relative advantage to diving (underwater) vs. underwater diving, though underwater diving has become a sort of default on Wikipedia where disambiguation is useful (there are various other modifiers which are unambiguous but only suitable for specific subsets like recreational diving, commercial diving, freediving etc, and imply underwater diving). I assume the workload of converting to diving (underwater) would be significantly larger, so if there is no clear advantage, why do it? I make no claims to being an expert in caregorisation, but probably have the most experience on Wikipedia in underwater diving topics and the writing of our articles on the topic (not my choice, but we do what we can in the absence of anything better), and the proposal is based on gut feel rather than formal research. I am open to persuasion by logical argument and evidence. I would also consider underwater diving and diving (sport) a reasonable set of options. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 06:21, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

::::It would be more straightforward if you used the standard nomination procedure/formatting. I'm really struggling to envision how this change will look, let alone contrasting it with an alternative proposal. I'm not at the point where I can form an opinion. Mason (talk) 20:59, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::Link me to a description and I will reformat if that will help. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 17:35, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

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So far there is support and discussions, and there has been no substantive opposition. The proposed changes are within the scope of guidance, opportunity to oppose has been given, and there is no apparent reason not to close as unopposed. (which I will not do as I consider myself involved) · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 09:18, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:African-American women economists ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Merge * Pppery * it has begun... 17:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose splitting :Category:African-American women economists to :Category:American women economists and :Category:African-American economists

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between race and gender. Mason (talk) 02:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  • Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :Dual merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep passing WP:EGRS [https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/january/uncovering-contributions-black-women-economics Uncovering the Contributions of Black Women to Economics], [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-20/the-two-women-fixing-the-pipeline-for-black-female-economists The Two Women Fixing the Pipeline for Black Female Economists], [https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-was-sadie-alexander-first-black-woman-economist-us Sadie Alexander: Meet the First Black Woman Economist in the U.S.] and so on. Please follow WP:BEFORE. These sources are all easily available. Note: this category went from 1 entry to 28.--User:Namiba 14:48, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :I did follow WP:BEFORE, however, I don't this warrants an intersection. The problems facing black women social scientists are not specific to economics. Mason (talk) 20:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

:::There are a significant number of reliable, independent sources and thus I hope would agree that, if such a head article were written, it would pass WP:GNG. Since such an article could be written, this intersection should be kept.--User:Namiba 12:15, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

::Note: There are a number of previous Cfds which have deleted or merged categories by both gender and ethnicity. A few recent ones: this one and this one, and this one. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:44, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

:::I count 3 contributors across 3 discussions so that's not exactly setting a precedent. If you disagree with WP:EGRS, make the case and have it changed.--User:Namiba 14:55, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

::::I only gave the ones where I was involved in. I'm sure there are more like these. But these categories are definitely WP:EGRS. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:12, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

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::{{U|Namiba}}, Why is it more important that the members of the category are both African-American economists and American women economists combined, than separately? · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 09:16, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

:::Because that's how categories work. It is a notable intersection as defined by our guidelines. There are plenty of sources which discuss the intersection in detail.--User:Namiba 15:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

::::That's not a helpful (or convincing) answer. What is special about being a black woman economist that isn't covered by being a black woman social scientist? Mason (talk) 02:38, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

:::::I don't know how many different ways I have to say this: the sources demonstrate that this is a notable intersection. This is the same reason why the other 16 categories at :Category:African-American women by occupation exist. Moreover, your comment misses the mark as your proposal dissolves the intersection. There is no :Category:African-American women social scientists category and you have not proposed merging to it.--User:Namiba 04:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

::::::We do not have to have a category for every notable intersection, and we do not have to not have a category for a notable intersection if there are sufficient members for the category to be useful. I am not convinced that it is useful, but also do not claim that it is not useful. The evidence put forward is not persuasive of usefulness. To whom is it useful and how is it useful. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 09:34, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:The Uganda Society ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Rename to :Category:Presidents of The Uganda Society and purge. There was insufficient discussion on whether an eponymous category containing only the non-people would be useful, so it can be created (and nominated for deletion again) if necessary. * Pppery * it has begun... 17:43, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|The Uganda Society}}

:Nominator's rationale: What is "The Uganda Society?" Gjs238 (talk) 14:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

::Hi @Gjs238, This is an ongoing project and I already explained this to Liz as she had nominated this same category for Deletion because it was empty and now it is not empty. Micheal Kaluba (talk) 16:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

:::This is an on going big project so many biographies to be documented. So it has not to be deleted! Micheal Kaluba (talk) 16:23, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

:::I think a properly sourced article demonstrating notability of The Uganda Society needs to be created before we can consider a corresponding category. --woodensuperman 16:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

::::Great, Working it! Micheal Kaluba (talk) 19:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  • Lean to delete in absence of a proper main article. If not deleted, rename to :Category:Presidents of The Uganda Society per actual content. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :Support name change now that an eponymous article has been created. Gjs238 (talk) 13:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Rename to {{cl|Presidents of The Uganda Society}} now that article has been created. --woodensuperman 14:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :The category is more than just about biographies of former presidents but it includes other items like The Uganda Journal, The Uganda Society Library and many others articles of which are being worked on. Micheal Kaluba (talk) 06:39, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  • ::Please see WP:COPSEP. You shouldn't have biographical articles and non-biographical articles in the same category. If these are valid categories, you'll need both. --woodensuperman 07:42, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  • ::Perhaps it was premature to create the category. Gjs238 (talk) 13:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Weak rename per Woodensuperman or just delete per WP:OCASSOC. –Aidan721 (talk) 21:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Skate photographers ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Rename as nominated. There is a clear cosnensus to rename somewhere, and no real consensus on what name to use so I'm defaulting to the initially-proposed one. This closure does not bar a separate discussion focusing on solely "Skateboarding photographers" vs. "Photographers of skateboarding". * Pppery * it has begun... 17:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Skate photographers to :Category:Skateboarding photographers

{{collapse top|Discussion at speedy Cfd}}

{{collapse bottom}}

:Nominator's rationale: Opposed at speedy. Per WP:C2C. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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  • Neither the existing title not the proposed one have particularly obvious scope. Current title appears to be a local usage, which is not ideal. "Photographers of skateboarding" might be clear enough to everyone to be useful. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 09:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
  • :I would prefer "Skateboarding photographers" over "Photographers of skateboarding". I would say "Skate photographers" is still the most correct and that it is more than a local term. Conversations about photography and skateboarding are most commonly called: skate photography. Seeskate photography.
  • :Is "Skateboarding photographers" the more correct category title because it is longer? In this instance, "Skate photographer" is the correct title and not a local usage. Skateboarding photographer is an over-formalized version of it, imho. - Wil540 art (talk) 06:10, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
  • ::Both are correct (per article) but per WP:C2C, it should match the parent category. It is also less confusing, IMO. "Skate photographers" may be confused with other forms of skating. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
  • :::Or people who photograph flatfish, for that matter. Some kind of change is clearly needed, and the proposed new title is a little less ambiguous (although it could theoretically refer to photographers who use a skateboard). Grutness...wha? 14:34, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  • ::::And the option :Category:Photographers of skateboarding, while summarily rejected, is actually clear, accurate, and unambiguous. Or am I missing something? · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 09:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:BBC Television Service original programming ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:BBC Television Service (TV network) original programming. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 22:25, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:BBC Television Service original programming to :Category:BBC Television Service (TV network) original programming

:Nominator's rationale: To match the article, currently a redirect. Fuddle (talk) 23:39, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

::Support. This is C2D. Gonnym (talk) 17:17, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

::* No, C2D does not apply to redirects (just a comment, no opinion about the proposed rename). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:26, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Name organic reactions ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Merge to :Category:Organic reactions/:Category:Inorganic reactions * Pppery * it has begun... 22:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Name organic reactions to :Category:Organic name reactions

:* Propose renaming :Category:Name inorganic reactions to :Category:Inorganic name reactions

:Nominator's rationale: Per terminology used in major published refs focused on the organic variant, such as:

:*{{cite book |doi= 10.1002/9780470638859 |title= Comprehensive Organic Name Reactions and Reagents |publisher= Wiley |year= 2010}}

:*{{cite book |doi= 10.1016/C2021-0-02076-9 |title= Handbook of Organic Name Reactions: Reagents, Mechanism and Applications |publisher= Elsevier |year= 2023}}

:The inorganic variant does not seem as widely discussed in the literature, but seems useful to keep these two in sync. DMacks (talk) 20:22, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

::Note: Wikiproject Chemistry notified of this discussion. DMacks (talk) 22:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

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:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
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::Merge somehow. Weak preference for :Category:Organic reactions and :Category:Inorganic reactions as respective merge targets. I agree with Project Osprey that there's not much value in subcategorising this way. Qwerfjkltalk 12:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:1965 establishments in the Collectivity of Saint Martin ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Alt merge * Pppery * it has begun... 17:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose splitting :Category:1965 establishments in the Collectivity of Saint Martin to :Category:1965 in the Collectivity of Saint Martin and :Category:1965 establishments

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to have this entire category establishments tree for one page. Mason (talk) 23:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::The naming of Saint-Martin doesn't matter for this nomination. The alt proposal, which is currently supported is to merge to :Category:1965 establishments in North America and :Category:1965 establishments in the French colonial empire, meaning :Category:1965 in the Collectivity of Saint Martin will be deleted as empty (which I'm tagging now). –Aidan721 (talk) 14:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Irish land reform activists ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Irish land reform activists to :Category:Activists for Irish land reform

:Nominator's rationale: in the spirit of categories like Activists for African-American civil rights‎. We should rename it to make it clearer that this category is about the issue, not the activist's nationality. Mason (talk) 13:31, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Female cannibals ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Cannibals. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Female cannibals to :Category:Cannibals

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. This is a non-defining intersection. It really doesn't matter what gender you are, for cannibalism Mason (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Fictional engineers by nationality ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:43, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional engineers by nationality to :Category:Fictional engineers

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional Serbian people by occupation to :Category:Fictional Serbian people

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional Yugoslav people by occupation to :Category:Fictional Yugoslav people

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one occupation in each category, which is unhelpful for navigation Mason (talk) 13:08, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Oceanianism ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Oceanianism to :Category:Pacific studies

:Nominator's rationale: Seems like a little used term - if used at all. "Oceanianism"-wikipedia returns some 500 ghits, most of which are about the political concept of pan-oceanianism. The term "Pacific studies"-wikipedia, as used by tertiary institutes, returns nearly 2 million ghits. What's more, the key article is at Pacific studies. Grutness...wha? 11:31, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Anti-Armenianism ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge/rename as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming {{Cl|Anti-Armenianism}} to {{Cl|Anti-Armenian sentiment}}

:* Propose merging {{Cl|Anti-Armenianism in Asia}} to {{Cl|Anti-Armenian sentiment}}

:* Propose merging {{Cl|Anti-Armenianism in Europe}} to {{Cl|Anti-Armenian sentiment}}

:* Propose renaming {{Cl|Anti-Armenianism in Azerbaijan}} to {{Cl|Anti-Armenian sentiment in Azerbaijan}}

:* Propose renaming {{Cl|Anti-Armenianism in Turkey}} to {{Cl|Anti-Armenian sentiment in Turkey}}

: Nominator's rationale:The first category can be renamed per main article Anti-Armenian sentiment (WP:C2D). Then, for Armenia-related topics it is not usefully efficient to split between European and Asian topics, due to the blur and arbitrary nature of the conventional limit between the two: most content ends up being placed in both categories or at the root. There isn't that much content. Place Clichy (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Assistant College football coaches in the United States ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Assistant College football coaches in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College defensive coordinators in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College offensive coordinators in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College quarterbacks coaches in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College tight ends coaches in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College running backs coaches in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College offensive line coaches in the United States}}

:Nominator's rationale: Recently created articles that are non-defining. This is the same author who created the by division category for coaches. There is also :Category:College defensive line coaches in the United States which is empty. –Aidan721 (talk) 05:09, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::Delete all per nom. Let'srun (talk) 22:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Television meteorologists ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Television meteorologists to :Category:Television weather presenters

:* Propose renaming :Category:American television meteorologists to :Category:American television weather presenters

:* Propose renaming :Category:Australian television meteorologists to :Category:Australian television weather presenters

:* Propose renaming :Category:British television meteorologists to :Category:British television weather presenters

:* Propose renaming :Category:Canadian television meteorologists to :Category:Canadian television weather presenters

:* Propose renaming :Category:Filipino television meteorologists to :Category:Filipino television weather presenters

:Nominator's rationale: While there is a distinction between a meteorologist and a weather presenter, it's a technical one that doesn't make a meaningful difference to the television audience, and is hard to effectively maintain as a category.
According to the usage note on this category, it should only be for people who actually have "meteorologist" credentials, while those who don't should just be catted in the generic "weather presenters" without differentiation for nationality or medium -- but the average viewer neither knows nor cares whether their favourite TV weatherperson is a "meteorologist" presenting forecasts they prepared themselves or a "non-meteorologist" presenting forecasts that were prepared by other people, and just wants to know what the weather is going to be.
This is not, for instance, a valid reason why Al Roker should only be in an undifferentiated "presenters" category that fails to sub him out for either "American" or "television" instead of sitting with other American TV weather personalities in a common category for American TV weather personalities -- and given the fact that the average viewer usually doesn't even know whether their weatherperson actually has meteorologist credentials or not, the terms get used far more interchangeably than they should in reality, so non-meteorologists get filed in the meteorologist category and vice versa all the time.
So while there is a technical distinction, this just isn't the best way to go about categorizing for it. Instead of having the category tree separate "television meteorologists" and "television weather presenters who aren't really certified meteorologists" into two separate buckets, we should really just collapse that distinction and treat "television weather presenters without regard to meteorology credentials" and "meteorologists without regard to venue" as two completely distinct things. That is, there should just be one "television weather presenters" category that applies regardless of whether the person is technically a meteorologist or not -- and if the presenter is also a meteorologist, then they should just have the appropriate "meteorologists" category directly applied separately from the category for their TV presenting gig. Bearcat (talk) 03:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::Update: Just to note that sometime after I created this nomination, one new sibling category was created by another user — perhaps because they saw this discussion before doing that (it was a CFD regular who has posted elsewhere to this same daylog), they created it at {{cl|New Zealand television weather presenters}} right from the jump. So it doesn't need to be added here, but it warrants mention nonetheless because it probably validates my point. Bearcat (talk) 23:18, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

:::That was me. Apologies if the name I created it at causes problems, but in NZ they're always called weather presenters. BTW, I note that there are by network categories for "weather forecasters" in the UK category, but I presume that's local usage. Grutness...wha? 02:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

::::No, it's not a problem at all. It supports the very point I was trying to make in this nomination. Bearcat (talk) 18:45, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

  • Rename, this is a more accurate description of what these people are known for. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Social novels by writer ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Social novels by writer}}

:Nominator's rationale: Unhelpful for navigation to only have one category in here. And it is worth pointing out that the only category ({{clc|Novels by Khadija Mastoor‎}} ) contains a single novel. Delete instead of merge because the lone category is correctly categorized Mason (talk) 02:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:African-American women lawyers ==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 14%23Category:African-American women lawyers

==Category:American tennis coaches by state==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 14%23Category:American tennis coaches by state

== Category:Asian-American women psychologists ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Merge * Pppery * it has begun... 05:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Asian-American women psychologists to :Category:American psychologists of Asian descent

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between race, gender, and occupation. Should be renamed and reparented to the broader race-category. (if kept, it should still be renamed to "American women psychologists of Asian descent") Mason (talk) 03:13, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  • Merge to :Category:American women psychologists per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :Merge per Marco. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Rename to :Category:American women psychologists of Asian descent. Like so many ethnicity intersections, this is something which passes WP:EGRS. See [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10284571/ The invisibilization of Asian American women psychologists in academia: A Call to Action], [https://aapaonline.org/about/history/ Asian American Psychological Association] and so on.--User:Namiba 14:46, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  • :Funnily enough I read that article, before I made the nomination. My take was that the defining aspect wasn't specific to psychology. That being Asian-American and female and a scientist was a notable intersection, but not that the specific kind of science being done was. I could see down the line that we might recreate the category if diffusion is needed, but I don't think we're there now. (For the record, I also think that being Asian-American and a psychologist is notable/defining. But not the three-way intersection). Mason (talk) 02:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

:

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:11, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Mountain monuments and memorials ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Mountain monuments and memorials}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:TRIVIALCAT User:Namiba 01:58, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::Question: Shouldn't it be upmerged to :Category:Monuments and memorials, instead of deleted? Mason (talk) 02:49, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::I just went through and added them all to the monuments and memorials tree. More attention appears to be needed toward populating it more broadly though.--User:Namiba 15:03, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::* Thanks, in that case the nominated category can be deleted indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:WWE Warrior Award recipients ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:04, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|WWE Warrior Award recipients}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD. This an award that the WWE gives its own employees. User:Namiba 00:44, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Years in the Kingdom of Naples by year ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 20:44, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:1596 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:16th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1596 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1667 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:17th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1667 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1667 in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:17th century in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1667 in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1713 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1713 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1732 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1732 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1734 in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th century in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1734 in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1742 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1742 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1752 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1752 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1757 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1757 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1780 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1780 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1787 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1787 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1780s in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:18th century in the Kingdom of Naples

:* Propose merging :Category:1801 in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:19th century in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1801 in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1805 in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:19th century in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1805 in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1811 establishments in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:19th-century establishments in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1811 establishments in Italy

:* Propose merging :Category:1815 in the Kingdom of Naples to :Category:19th century in the Kingdom of Naples and :Category:1815 in Italy

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1596 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1590s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1590s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1660s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1660s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1713 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1710s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1710s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1732 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1730s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1730s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1742 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1740s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1740s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1752 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1757 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1750s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1750s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1780 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1787 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1780s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1811 in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1810s establishments in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:1810s in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Years of the 16th century in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Years of the 17th century in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Years of the 18th century in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Years of the 19th century in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Establishments in the Kingdom of Naples by year}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Years in the Kingdom of Naples}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OCYEAR. Not a lot of content or establishments in these categories. Merge up to the century level. –Aidan721 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::Support per nom Mason (talk) 02:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

:Oppose Century categories are far too wide to allow the easy location of articles. Dimadick (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

::Having a ton of tiny categories doesn't make that easier. Per WP:OCYEAR. "However, avoid creating a category tree of individual by year categories with very few members (see also #NARROW). In that situation, consider grouping them by the next tier up. So for example, instead of grouping by year, group by decade. And then diffuse the by decade categories by year only when necessary. This applies to any time period, like months to years; or years or decades, to centuries."Mason (talk) 22:04, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  • Support with regret, the categories are obviously too small and too isolated, but we are merging to Italy as if it were a country while it wasn't yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

::Maybe treating it as a peninsula? - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

::* {{ping|RevelationDirect}} that is what proponents of the pre-1860 tree for Italy say. But we do not categorize any other peninsulas equally detailed as countries. Besides it would lead to issues about the borders of pre-1860 Italy, i.e. the northern quarter of the current country is not part of the peninsula. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:38, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

::*:Fair point on the northern reaches. RevelationDirect (talk) 15:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

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