Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 January 13

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Chemical reactions of ethers to :Category:Reactions of ethers

:Nominator's rationale: Need to set a precedent for the names of categories of chemical reactions specific to organic functional groups. E.g. :Category:Reactions of esters. These are already within :Category:Chemical reactions so we already know they are chemical reactions. Michael7604 (talk) 22:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Sometimes it is reasonable for subcat's name to include a parent-cat's name, since cat-names are often displayed by themselves rather than in a hierarchy or bread-crumb chain. But the word "chemical" is redundant or implicit/obvious here, since that's the only kind of "reactions of ethers" we seem to have. No need to be too verbose. DMacks (talk) 20:11, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
• Rename No disambiguation needed. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional elementary school students to :Category:Fictional children

:Nominator's rationale: merge, attending school is a pretty trivial characteristic of children. If kept, rename to :Category:Fictional elementary school pupils. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:18, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

::Support per nom. If anything it would be more notable if a child weren't attending school Mason (talk) 01:54, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

::Oppose. Being a school student can be a defining trait for many fictional characters, especially the children in works such as The Simpsons or South Park. AHI-3000 (talk) 05:40, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Dimadick}} What do you think about this nomination? AHI-3000 (talk) 05:45, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

::::I honestly do not consider it a particularly notable trait, with the exception of works which have a specific school setting. I have come across several child characters who are nearly always depicted during their free time for school or during their vacations. Nearly all of The Famous Five series takes place while the nominal school children are vacationing. Dimadick (talk) 10:12, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom and Mason, this is commonplace and not deserving of a category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:30, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• In fact the category may be deleted, all articles are already deeper down in the tree of :Category:Fictional children, e.g. in :Category:Child characters in television or :Category:Child characters in anime and manga. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:55, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OVERLAPCAT, as education is compulsory for children in almost all countries. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:15, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Academic staff by university or college in North America. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:24, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Faculty by university or college in North America to :Category:Academic staff by university or college in North America

:Nominator's rationale: Rename following parent {{c|Academic staff by university or college}}, siblings for all other continents, and subcats for every country except the United States. The parent was renamed at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_7#Category:Faculty_by_university_or_college following Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_January_3#Academics_in_Europe, Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_January_29#Academic_staff_in_Africa_and_Asia and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_5#Academic_staff_in_Canada,_Central_America_and_the_Caribbean,_Oceania_and_South_America. – Fayenatic London 19:41, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:08, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• :Support North America rename, as long the faculty stays the term for the US (per localization or whatever the term is for using the local term). Mason (talk) 01:56, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Support for continent, would oppose for US per WP:ENGVAR. - RevelationDirect (talk) 17:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:32, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:30, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Mythological nurses}}

:Nominator's rationale: Extremely small category. In theory upmerge for now, but the only page is already in Characters in Greek mythology Mason (talk) 04:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

:There are several (many?) mythological "nurses" i.e. nursemaids, these include:

:*Pleiades (Greek mythology) nursemaids to Dionysus

:*Adrasteia nursemaid to Zeus

:*Ida (nurse of Zeus) nursemaid to Zeus

:*Cyllene (nymph) nursemaid to Hermes

:*Hypsipyle, nursemaid to Opheltes

:And there are undoubtedly more. Seems like a plausibly useful category. Paul August ☎ 15:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

::Nursemaids (which are more like wetnurses) are not the same as nurses, who are medical professionals. Mason (talk) 23:52, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

:::Not in an ancient Greek context. Paul August ☎ 01:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

::::But this category is broader than Ancient Greece, it says "Category:Mythological nurses", not "Category:Mythological nurses in Ancient Greece". If it stays, it should be renamed to nursemaids or wetnurses or something to that effect. Mason (talk) 22:00, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::I would be in favour of renaming the category to "Nurses in Greek mythology" (or similar), and recategorising it accordingly, but I still think "nurses" is preferable to "nursemaids" or "wet-nurses", per my comment below. – Michael Aurel (talk) 03:27, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::: If we keep this category then I suppose that would be a better name, although I do think the term "nurse' would probably apply in any ancient context. Paul August ☎ 01:48, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::::I would expect so. I also wouldn't be opposed to retaining the current title and adding mythological figures from other cultures. – Michael Aurel (talk) 11:42, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. There are numerous examples of such figures in Greek mythology, and "nurse" seems to be the term sources use most frequently to describe them. For instance, see Gantz's Early Greek Myth, Hard's Routledge Handbook of Greek Mythology, or Grimal's Dictionary of Classical Mythology, which all use "nurse" much more than they do "wet-nurse" or "nursemaid". – Michael Aurel (talk) 02:19, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as a valid category with value to readers. As Paul August and Michael Aurel have already pointed out, these persons are usually referred to simply as "nurses". The modern distinction is not generally applied to mythological occurrences, and there is little reason to suppose there would be confusion over that. P Aculeius (talk) 11:31, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Populate, rename to :Category:Nurses in Greek mythology and re-parent, thus more specifically describing the content of the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:09, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep and populate. Useful category. Dimadick (talk) 10:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• I note that the only current entry in the category, Abia (mythology) is indeed a nurse in the wetnurse/nursemaid sense rather than the modern healthcare sense (which probably makes little sense in most mythological contexts anyway!) If this article is kept and populated, it should probably be removed from :Category:Cultural depictions of nurses (which does seem to otherwise be used for nurses in the modern sense) and possibly be added to :Category:Wet nursing Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 09:06, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: (up)merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:34, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Korean kings to :Category:Korean monarchs

:* Propose merging :Category:Kings of Later Baekje to :Category:Later Baekje people and :Category:Korean monarchs

:* Propose merging :Category:Kings of Silla to :Category:Silla monarchs

:* Propose renaming :Category:Kings of Taebong to :Category:Monarchs of Taebong

:* Propose merging :Category:Kings of Daegaya to :Category:Gaya monarchs

:* Propose merging :Category:Kings of Geumgwan Gaya to :Category:Gaya monarchs and :Category:Geumgwan Gaya people

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining use of "king" per category description: "A category of Silla monarchs who used "king" as the regnal title." The category creator has made a lot of these kinds of category, despite warnings. Mason (talk) 05:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• Upmerge :Category:Kings of Later Baekje, :Category:Kings of Taebong and :Category:Kings of Daegaya, only one or two articles in these categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Merge and also proposed upmerges per given arguments toobigtokale (talk) 05:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: reverses merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:43, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Sufi tekkes in Albania to :Category:Khanqahs in Albania

:Nominator's rationale: merge, overlapping categories, see article Khanqah to which Tekkes redirects. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:29, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom Mason (talk) 21:38, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Reverse merge. There's actually List of tekkes in Albania and List of Bektashi tekkes and shrines, where most of these buildings are called tekke. {{section link|Khanqah|Etymology}} explains that these institutions, having the same function of a Sufi place of gathering, have different local names i.e. zawiya in North Africa, tekke in Turkey, Albania, Bosnia and other parts of the former Ottoman Empire, khanqah or dargah elsewhere e.g. Persia and South Asia. See also :Category:Tekkes in Greece or Historical tekkes, zawiyas, and dergahs in Istanbul, which use local names. The parent category is :Category:Sufi shrines. I would suggest using that as a parent, and using the local name for country-level categories. Place Clichy (talk) 03:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Place Clichy's alternative makes a lot of sense. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:56, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Reverse Merge per Place Clichy and WP:C2D to match List of tekkes in Albania. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:44, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Sufi shrines. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:44, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Khanqahs by country to :Category:Khanqahs

:Nominator's rationale: Only two categories in here and there doesn't exist a category called Khanqahs Mason (talk) 21:09, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Rename and re-parent per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:Sufi shrines. Per the reasoning above, I suggest using this parent category, with country-level children categories using the common local name for these institutions. Place Clichy (talk) 03:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Place Clichy's alternative makes a lot of sense. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Alt Merge per Place Clichy alternative. (No objection to original rename nom if it gains consensus.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:39, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge :Category:Terms coined by James Matisoff, delete the rest. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|James Matisoff}}

:Nominator's rationale: Small category where not much in this category is defining or helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 19:48, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Terms coined by James Matisoff to :Category:Linguistics terminology

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Students of James Matisoff}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not defining. Mason (talk) 19:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

:* If kept, Propose merging :Category:Works by James Matisoff to :Category:James Matisoff

:Nominator's rationale: Not helpful for navigation to only have one work in here. Mason (talk) 19:45, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• At least delete the students category. Students categories are mainly useful if most of the subjects are only known as someone's student without notable works of their own. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Delete {{cl|James Matisoff}} per WP:EPONCAT; Merge {{cl|Terms coined by James Matisoff}} per nom; Delete {{cl|Students of James Matisoff}} per WP:OCASSOC; Keep {{cl|Works by James Matisoff}} as part of established "works by" tree. --woodensuperman 13:02, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
• :I'm not even sure that the page (Sino-Tibetan Etymological Dictionary and Thesaurus) counts as a "work". It's a database/research project on a website. Mason (talk) 02:02, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• ::You're probably right. in which case delete {{cl|Works by James Matisoff}}. --woodensuperman 08:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Speedy keep Useful category for one of the founders of modern Southeast Asian linguistic studies. Helps with navigation and is useful for readers browsing through linguistics categories and articles. Lingnanhua (talk) 22:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• :How is this more helpful than linking to the pages directly? Mason (talk) 02:01, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• For browsing through linguistics categories and articles we have the tree of :Category:Linguistics so that is not a good argument. :Category:James Matisoff is supposed to be about James Matisoff's life but it seems that the article suffices for that. Support whole nomination now that I am looking into this in more detail. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:49, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete All The parent category is WP:OCEPON, the named after is akin to WP:SHAREDNAME since it it categorizing by what something is called not what it is, the students is WP:OCASSOC and it's unclear the single article in the works subcategory (Sino-Tibetan Etymological Dictionary and Thesaurus) belongs there. So the editing guidelines vary but none of these aid navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 17:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge :Category:People of Soviet descent, no consensus on :Category:Israeli people of Soviet descent * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:43, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|People of Soviet descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Israeli people of Soviet descent}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only has one category layer which, in turn, has people already listed as descended from constitutent countries within the Soviet Union. Delete both. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom Mason (talk) 19:39, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Delete people of Soviet descent. Keep Israeli people of Soviet descent. As we've recently said elsewhere regarding Ukraine, regime is not usually defining, while nationality is. However, in the particular case of the Soviet Union and Israel, the intersection was culturally significant and has remained so in the descendents of those who escaped from the USSR to Israel. Jahaza (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
• Merge :Category:People of Soviet descent to :Category:Soviet diaspora, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. But don't delete, there is no reason to remove the subcat from the diaspora tree (if the subcat is kept). Marcocapelle (talk) 22:01, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Israeli people of Soviet descent?
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::@Marcocapelle, but isn't the "Israeli people of Soviet descent" quite vague? It doesn't tell where they are from or whether they are Jewish or not even. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

::* {{ping|Omnis Scientia}} I do not quite see what is vague about it. It does tell that they are from the Soviet Union. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:36, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Jewish/Israeli is hardly a major issue here, as there will be few Arabs/Palestinians who would qualify. However there has been a large exodus of Jews from the ex-USSR. Saying they were of Russian descent (or other split) might give us difficulties. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:07, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: No consensus Closing per author acknowledgement. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:58, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Surnames of Jewish origin to :Category:Jewish surnames

:Nominator's rationale: Parent categories are :Category:Jewish names and :Category:Jewish families. Main article is Jewish surnames. There is no such thing as a surname of Jewish origin. These are names adopted by Jewish people via assimilation or which they were forced to adopt in exchange for freedom and, hence, have a VERY diverse origin. The previous form "Jewish surnames" is a better description of the contents of this category. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:04, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

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::Comment: @Qwerfjkl, I don't remember commenting on that one but I have and I completely forgot about it! Is opening a Cfd on a previously discussed category is not allowed/frowned upon? Asking so I can be more careful in the future. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

:::@Omnis Scientia It depends. In this case the previous discussion was closed as no consensus, so it could be okay, just make sure to avoid a rehash of the previous discussion e.g. by including counterpoints. Qwerfjkltalk 17:36, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

::::Will do. Thank you! Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:37, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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::@Smasongarrison, pinging you for a consensus. What do you think? Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

:::I don't really have an opinion, but perhaps @Marcocapelle does? Mason (talk) 17:08, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

::::@Marcocapelle, pinging for your opinion. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:53, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

::::* "of Jewish origin" is a lot more informative. For illustration, I think that Adler (surname) should be purged because while this surname may have been used by some Jews it is not an original Jewish name. On the other hand names rooted in the Hebrew Bible may surely be kept. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:03, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

::::*:A fair point, if you look at it that way. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:48, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

::::*::@Qwerfjkl, as nominator, you can close this as no consensus if you want to. No need to relist. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:41, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Educational facilities to :Category:Educational environment

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping/non-defining category. These are all school-related things, but it's unclear to me how they really differ. Full disclosure, this category was original just in :Category:educational buildings, but it contained lots of non-buildings, so I moved it up a level. Mason (talk) 23:42, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

::It was actually originally in :Category:Education, though it's been 16 years so I don't remember exactly what pages were put into it at the time. I imagine I intended it to include pages for educational areas or units that were not in themselves buildings.

::As such, being moved to :Category:Educational buildings was probably not a good idea. I'm also not sure what "Educational environment" designates. Why not just put it up in :Category:Education where it was originally?

:: -- Powers ^T 00:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom and no objection to include the target in the nomination for further upmerge. It is very unclear what these categories are about. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:38, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Merge per nom; I would describe these as "facilities". Open to a subsequent nomination to further merge per Powers. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Arachnologists. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:45, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Irish arachnologists to :Category:Arachnologists by nationality and :Category:Irish zoologists

:Nominator's rationale: Merge for now, as it only contains 1 page. – Fayenatic London 16:41, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 17:42, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom, except it should be :Category:Arachnologists, not the container category :Category:Arachnologists by nationality. Perspicax (talk) 16:51, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Alt Merge for Now per Perspicax, to :Category:Arachnologists. No objection to recreating this category later if additional articles appear, per WP:MFN. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:46, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Uzbekistani people by occupation and location to :Category:Uzbekistani people by location

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in here, which is unhelpful for navigation Mason (talk) 03:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Alternatively this category and its subcategory may be just deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
• Suggesting this as an alternate proposal: –Aidan721 (talk) 15:51, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Uzbekistani sportspeople by location to :Category:Uzbekistani sportspeople

:* Propose deleting :Category:Uzbekistani people by occupation and location

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 15:36, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support Merge/Delete per Seawolf35. (If that doesn't have consensus support original nom.) Either way, the category doesn't add value with the current contents. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split. between :Category:Rooms and :Category:Building types. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Halls to :Category:Rooms

:Nominator's rationale: Non defining. If kept, it needs to have more parent categories Mason (talk) 04:29, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• Comment some of these are buildings instead of rooms. The category is non-def because it contains both rooms and buildings, but as such, cannot be directly merged into {{cat|rooms}}, as there are buildings in the category. It will need to be a selective merge, and some will need to be merged into the buildings category tree instead -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 06:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 15:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Split to :Category:Rooms and :Category:Building types. It is currently an example of WP:SHAREDNAME. – Fayenatic London 16:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Split per above discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Split per FL and WP:SHAREDNAME. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:05, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Researchers of marine fauna of the Gulf of California. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:13, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Marine fauna researchers of the Gulf of California to :Category:Researchers of marine fauna of the Gulf of California

:Nominator's rationale: Make it clearer the the research topic is Marine fauna of the Gulf of California Mason (talk) 21:04, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 11:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 15:26, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Rename, making it slightly more clear what this is about. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:52, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:14, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Fred Crisman}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only two pages in this eponymous category, which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 14:24, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, there are meanwhile 11 articles in the category but Fred Crisman is not a defining characteristic of these articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:54, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• :It seems that @Rjjiii has added those 11 articles. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_reported_UFO_sightings&oldid=1195383741] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=E._Howard_Hunt&diff=prev&oldid=1195383904]. I removed one that was extremely not defining List_of_reported_UFO_sightings, but decided to leave the rest for now. Mason (talk) 02:09, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• ::Yes, feel free to ping for an explanation of any of them. I cast a broad net for any Crisman topics. I did not post here because I have no strong opinions about retaining or deleting the category. Crisman is 1/3 of the "three tramps" in JKF conspiracies, he made the first "men in black" report, and he's mentioned in that Twin Peaks book 70+ times as a semi-fictional antagonist. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:29, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• ::I basically agree with Rjjiii -- Crisman is deeply associated with the articles that are currently in the category. I tend to think the category has utility, but I'm not an expert in our standards for category inclusion and will yield to wiser minds. Feoffer (talk) 03:08, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• ::* Only in Maury Island hoax Fred Chrisman is prominently mentioned. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:01, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• ::*:Then the articles need improvement. Men in Black needs to mention more about Maury Island, for example. Crisman IS a major character in the both books in the category. Sturgis and Hunt need to justify inclusion or be removed from Cat. Feoffer (talk) 07:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OCEPON. The Three tramps article is in this category because Mr. Crism looked like but was not one of the three; that's really tenuous! RevelationDirect (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
• :Well, he was widely accused of being the tramp. There's no good reason to think he was the Tramp, of course, but it's a historical fact that he was accused of it. Feoffer (talk) 07:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:12, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:History of the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata to :Category:United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata

:* Propose deleting :Category:19th century in the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata

:* Propose merging :Category:19th-century establishments in the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata to :Category:Establishments in the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata by decade

:* Propose deleting :Category:Establishments in the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata by century

:Nominator's rationale: United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata only existed within one century. Merge/delete per precedent at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 15#Category:Establishments in Gran Colombia by century. Manually merge parent categories for C19 onto target cats. The remaining categories should probably be renamed "Río" using a diacritic, but that can be done afterwards. – Fayenatic London 14:00, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge/delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Pre Anuradhapura period. Unopposed for a week. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:12, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Pre Anuradhapura period in fiction to :Category:Pre Anuradhapura period

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: dual merge to :Category:Treaties of Sri Lanka and :Category:British Ceylon. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:11, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Treaties of British Ceylon to :Category:British Ceylon

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:29, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Double merge, also to :Category:Treaties of Sri Lanka. – Fayenatic London 15:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Yes, dual merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

::Dual merge per Fayenatic London. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:50, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

• Dual Merge' per WP:NARROWCAT, nomination, and FL. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:British Ceylon with no prejudice against recreation if the category can be appropriately populated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:10, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:British Ceylon in fiction to :Category:British Ceylon

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:28, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge for Now per WP:MFN with no objection to recreation should more direct content ever appear. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|20th-century Soviet television series debuts}}

:Nominator's rationale: delete per precedent at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 28#Category:20th-century establishments in the Soviet Union, this is uncontroversial clean-up. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:52, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

::Support per nom Mason (talk) 13:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Microscopic discoveries by Antonie van Leeuwenhoek to :Category:Antonie van Leeuwenhoek

:Nominator's rationale: No other category like this exists. We don't have a scientific discoveries category. Mason (talk) 05:15, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• If not kept then delete instead of merge. These articles are not really about Antonie van Leeuwenhoek. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:20, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• :Delete per Marco. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:51, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
• Just Delete This hardly seems defining for Red blood cell and Sperm. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Upper Paleolithic discoveries to :Category:Archaeological discoveries

:Nominator's rationale: This category is being used incorrectly. This is for when the discovery was, not what the period from which the discovery was found Mason (talk) 05:09, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Just delete, the article is already in :Category:Archaeological discoveries in the Czech Republic. The category overlaps with :Category:Art of the Upper Paleolithic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:27, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Just Delete per overlapcat. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:08, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Vietnamese historians}} to :Category:Vietnamese historians and :Category:17th-century Vietnamese people and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:18th-century Vietnamese historians}} to :Category:Vietnamese historians and :Category:18th-century Vietnamese people and :Category:18th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:16th-century Vietnamese historians}} to :Category:Vietnamese historians and :Category:16th-century Vietnamese people and :Category:16th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:15th-century Vietnamese historians}} to :Category:Vietnamese historians and :Category:15th-century Vietnamese people and :Category:15th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:14th-century Vietnamese historians}} to :Category:Vietnamese historians and :Category:14th-century Vietnamese people and :Category:14th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:13th-century Vietnamese historians}} to :Category:Vietnamese historians and :Category:13th-century Vietnamese people and :Category:13th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Serbian historians}} to :Category:Serbian historians and :Category:17th-century Serbian writers and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:15th-century Serbian historians}} to :Category:Serbian historians and :Category:15th-century Serbian writers and :Category:15th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:14th-century Serbian historians}} to :Category:Serbian historians and :Category:14th-century Serbian writers and :Category:14th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Slovenian historians}} to :Category:Slovenian historians and :Category:17th-century Slovenian people and :Category:17th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Russian historians}} to :Category:Russian historians and :Category:17th-century Russian writers and :Category:17th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Luxembourgian historians}} to :Category:Luxembourgian historians and :Category:17th-century Luxembourgian people and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:16th-century Luxembourgian historians}} to :Category:Luxembourgian historians and :Category:16th-century Luxembourgian people and :Category:16th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Lithuanian historians}} to :Category:Lithuanian historians and :Category:17th-century Lithuanian writers and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:16th-century Lithuanian historians}} to :Category:Lithuanian historians and :Category:16th-century Lithuanian people and :Category:16th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Finnish historians}} to :Category:Finnish historians and :Category:17th-century Finnish writers and :Category:17th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Irish archaeologists}} to :Category:Irish archaeologists and :Category:17th-century Irish historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Egyptian historians}} to :Category:Egyptian historians and :Category:17th-century Egyptian people and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:19th-century Egyptian historians}} to :Category:Egyptian historiansand :Category:19th-century Egyptian people and :Category:19th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:16th-century Egyptian historians}} to :Category:Egyptian historians and :Category:16th-century Egyptian people and :Category:16th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:18th-century Egyptian historians}} to :Category:Egyptian historians and :Category:18th-century Egyptian people and :Category:18th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Chilean historians}} to :Category:Chilean historians and :Category:17th-century Chilean writers and :Category:17th-century historians

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:17th-century Bulgarian historians}} to :Category:Bulgarian historians and :Category:17th-century Bulgarian people and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:18th-century Bulgarian historians}} to :Category:Bulgarian historiansand :Category:18th-century Bulgarian writers and :Category:18th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Brazilian historians}} to :Category:Brazilian historians and :Category:17th-century Brazilian people and :Category:17th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century Albanian historians}} to :Category:Albanian historians and :Category:17th-century Albanian writers and :Category:17th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:16th-century Albanian historians}} to :Category:Albanian historians and :Category:16th-century Albanian people and :Category:16th-century historians

::* Propose merging {{clc|Category:15th-century Albanian historians}} to :Category:Albanian historians and :Category:15th-century Albanian people and :Category:15th-century historians

:* Propose merge {{clc|Category:17th-century American historians}} to :Category:American historians and :Category:17th-century American writers and :Category:17th-century historians

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one person in each of these categories, and it's unhelpful for navigation at this time. For each category, I tried to find additional members. Mason (talk) 01:49, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

::Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:05, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Conditional support per nom. This only works properly if older categories are nominated too, e.g. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:29, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Updated as I'm happy to make those noms as well. Mason (talk) 13:45, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Thank you for the update. Happy to support all. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:00, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge all per nom. Just too narrow an intersection for useful navigation at this point. –Aidan721 (talk) 16:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Part agree but merge all (not some) to ... century Fooian writers (which will have other content) Hugo999 (talk) 21:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Historians should be merged into categories for writers by century, not people by century. Dimadick (talk) 10:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• :They are being merged into writers by century when it exists. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:28, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• :* Exactly. For example, one of the merge targets of :Category:17th-century Serbian historians is :Category:17th-century Serbian writers, but on the other hand :Category:17th-century Slovenian writers does not exist. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:23, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated with no prejudice against recreation if the category can be appropriately populated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:Montenegrin Malacologists‎‎}} to :Category:Malacologists, and :Category:Montenegrin scientists

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:Croatian malacologists‎‎}} to :Category:Malacologists, and :Category:Croatian zoologists

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:Irish malacologists}} to :Category:Malacologists, and :Category:Irish zoologists

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:Norwegian malacologists}} to :Category:Malacologists, and :Category:Norwegian zoologists

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCATs: All of these categories have only a single article each, no clear evidence there will be more articles in the near future in any of them. (Note: I previously nominated :Category:Montenegrin Malacologists alone for renaming, but I've since changed my mind and followed {{u|Marcocapelle}}'s suggestion to merge instead. See here for previous discussion) Monster Iestyn (talk) 02:01, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

::Support merge for now. I'd be happy to see these categories grow enough to become needed, but until then upmerge for now. Mason (talk) 02:50, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge for now, without objection to recreate the categories when more articles are published. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:36, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:34, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
• 'Merge for Now per WP:NARROWCAT with no objection to recreation later if more content appears per WP:MFN. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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