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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 11#Middle Ages by country

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= June 11 =

== Category:Cute 'em ups by series ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:50, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Cute 'em ups by series to :Category:Cute 'em ups

:Nominator's rationale: It only has 2 subcategories WP:SMALLCAT. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 23:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Merge, WP:SMALLCAT is no longer active, but still this is a redundant category layer with only two subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Kurdish physicists ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:50, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Kurdish physicists to :Category:Kurdish scientists

:* Propose merging :Category:Kurdish microbiologists to :Category:Kurdish scientists

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Narrow intersection for small category, which isn't helpful for navigation. There's not even a Kurdish biologist category, so why would we need a subfield? Mason (talk) 23:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Jeremy Jordan (singer) albums ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:51, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Jeremy Jordan (singer) albums}}

:Nominator's rationale: Currently a redirect to :Category:Jeremy Jordan (singer, born 1973) albums. Goes against the disambiguation scheme seen at Jeremy Jordan/Jeremy Jordan (singer). QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Medieval Kurdish philosophers ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:51, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Medieval Kurdish philosophers to :Category:Kurdish philosophers

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to diffuse the Kurdish philosophy category by period. There are only 9 people in the entire tree (at the time of nomination). Mason (talk) 23:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Middle Ages by country ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Option 1 with redirects. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

:Nominator's rationale: Rename all children of :Category:Middle Ages by country to {{xt|Medieval history of Fooland}} per precedent {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}}, and indirectly the {{xt|Military history of Fooland}} precedents, as well as consistency (an indirect WP:C2C argument) with sibling categories :Category:Ancient history by country, :Category:Early modern period by country, and :Category:Modern history by country. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 25#Early modern period, where we decided to rename all categories to {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}}. Renaming could avoid a lot of anachronisms about modern countries that did not yet exist as such, or not with their modern-day borders, or at least not under their modern names, in the Middle Ages. It's also a lot like how we are currently reframing {{xt|battles in (former country/region)}} to {{xt|military history of (current country/region)}}. Although it has relatively few main articles following this formula (such as Medieval history of Nepal, or the variation History of medieval Tunisia, History of medieval Cumbria, or Political history of medieval Karnataka), it has been found that article titles using the formula {{xt|...in the Middle Ages}} or {{xt|...in antiquity}} are usually not about countries, but social or cultural phenomena, and that the formula {{xt|Ancient history of Fooland}} or {{xt|History of ancient Fooland}} is very common, leading to a relatively strong basis in the article space (an indirect WP:C2D argument). Therefore, the result of the preliminary discussion was Option 1: rename to {{xt|Medieval history of Fooland}}. All nominees will be tagged as such (but options for alternative target names remain open if participants can provide compelling rationales).

{{cot|Preliminary discussion on renaming options}}

There may also be a need to harmonise the categories further according to either one of the following options:

:# {{xt|Medieval history of Fooland}} per precedent {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}}, and indirectly the {{xt|Military history of Fooland}} precedents – a WP:C2C argument. It has a few main articles as well, such as Medieval history of Nepal, or the variation History of medieval Tunisia, History of medieval Cumbria, or Political history of medieval Karnataka. But other than that, it has no strong basis in the article space.

:# {{xt|Fooland in the Middle Ages}} per a lot of main articles, including some directly in this category: Cyprus in the Middle Ages, England in the Middle Ages, Ethiopia in the Middle Ages, Scotland in the Middle Ages, Wales in the Middle Ages, Netherlands in the Early Middle Ages etc. – a WP:C2D argument. (Sidenote: {{xt|Middle Ages in Fooland}} is a rare variation of this, apparently only followed by Early Middle Ages in Azerbaijan and High Middle Ages in Azerbaijan; these should probably be renamed per WP:TITLECON, as Azerbaijan in antiquity already is). It strikes me that most of these {{xt|...in the Middle Ages}} articles are about the British Isles or about other islands or peninsulas that are geographically relatively distinct and well-defined, as opposed to landlocked countries without clear geological and geographical boundaries, which always risks confusion and disagreement, so this formula might not work everywhere. It will not be consistent with our recent renaming of {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}} either, and we might have to revisit it.

:# {{xt|Medieval Fooland}}: one option is to keep the current category names, but seek to change the main article titles instead, per a small minority of main articles, such as Medieval India, Medieval Croatia, Medieval Armenia, Medieval Jerusalem, Medieval Corsica, and some derivatives like Norman and medieval London or Europeans in Medieval China, Slavery in medieval Europe. This would save us a lot of trouble renaming categories, it just adds to our trouble of renaming articles, which is a different projectspace. And although it is more concise, this option does not have my preference, because it makes the anachronism problem much worse. It will not be consistent with our recent renaming of {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}} either, and we might have to revisit it. But for the sake of completeness, I do offer it for your consideration.

:# Other options???

:I will add targets to the nomination when the preferred target name becomes a bit more clear in the discussion. NLeeuw (talk) 19:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

{{cob}}

::Courtesy ping to participants of previous discussion: {{ping|Marcocapelle|Smasongarrison|Ham II|Omnis Scientia|HouseBlaster}} for your consideration. NLeeuw (talk) 19:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Thank you for this big nomination and elaborate rationale. Option 3 is clearly a no-go for reasons already outlined. Initially I thought I'd have a clear preference for option 1 but at second thought I no longer see a good reason why, they each have their own pros. So either option 1 or 2. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:47, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :You're welcome, and thank you for paving the way with the early modern period precedent, as well as voicing your support earlier today when I asked your advice. I also thought this was gonna be a lot easier beforehand, but there is a substantial number of {{xt|Fooland in the Middle Ages}} articles that gave me pause. In the end, the article space should always be prioritised over the category space, and WP:C2D will almost always be a stronger argument than WP:C2C. So I've currently got a slight preference for option 2 over option 1, but it's close. I hope others can persuade us to a better perspective. NLeeuw (talk) 22:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • ::PS: One reason why the {{xt|...in the Middle Ages}} might be so popular, whereas {{xt|...in the early modern period}} is essentially unheard of, might be because we often speak and think of the Middle Ages as a "place" rather than a time. Say "Middle Ages" or "medieval", and someone else may soon imagine castles and catapults, convents and chronicles, commerce and crusaders. But if someone says "early modern", I struggle a lot more to paint a picture for myself of what that time looked like, and to imagine it as a "place" where people walked around. Strange thing how that works linguistically. Not sure if I'm the only one? But that might help to explain why these articles and categories are titled so differently. NLeeuw (talk) 23:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :::Hmmm no other input? I guess we'll have to wait for relisting or I'll have to start tagging pages... At the moment, option 2 seems most promising due to its strong basis in the article space. Many could be C2D'd if we wanted to. The other articles could be BOLDly moved per TITLECON... But I prefer to have a discussion, as we still to justify ignoring the early modern history of Fooland precedent which Marcocapelle set. NLeeuw (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

:If we're looking for more standardisation across periods of history, we may have to think about more than only the medieval and early modern periods. Within {{cat|History by country}} there are also ‎{{cat|Ancient history by country‎}} (with its subcat {{cat|Roman history of modern countries and territories}}) and {{cat|Modern history by country‎}} (with the subcat {{cat|Contemporary history by country}}) – and {{cat|National prehistories}} and {{cat|Renaissance by country‎}}, which I'm thinking may legitimately be outliers, as prehistory isn't history and "Renaissance" refers to movements in the arts and culture. From that standpoint Option 1 (for the non-outliers) is looking most viable to me at the moment, with the possible exception of the Roman subcat. Perhaps in that scenario subcats ({{xt|Roman Fooland}}, {{xt|Fooland in the High Middle Ages}}) could be treated differently from parent cats ({{xt|Ancient history of Fooland}}, {{xt|Medieval history of Fooland}}).

:Other medieval history categories to take into account (but which aren't in {{cat|Middle Ages by country}}) are {{cat|Medieval history of the Balkans}}, {{cat|Medieval history of the Basque Country}}, {{cat|Medieval history of the Caucasus}}, {{cat|Medieval history of the Middle East}} and {{cat|Medieval history of Vojvodina}}. Ham II (talk) 07:55, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:::After thinking about this some more, I've realised that the Renaissance category tree should be within the early modern category tree. I've also found lots of instances of {{xt|Prehistory of Fooland}} as opposed to {{xt|Prehistoric Fooland}} (which weren't previously in {{cat|National prehistories}}), so perhaps an {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}}–style naming schema can work for prehistory after all. Ham II (talk) 17:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Hmm. Well, at the very least the catname should be clarified. :Category:Prehistory by country? Parents :Category:History by country and :Category:Prehistory by region suggest catname {{xt|Prehistory by country}} as a logical intersection. (The catname "national prehistories" had me think they meant 'the history of nation X before it became a nation-state (in the 19th century)', or something like that. But they do mean prehistory in the sense of "before the time of written sources". Just an odd catname for it). NLeeuw (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:::::I completely agree. Ham II (talk) 20:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

::::::Cool. I've speedied it. That's a start. NLeeuw (talk) 14:58, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

:::::::{{Done}}. NLeeuw (talk) 00:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Good points. I'll do some more exploring of the category trees before I respond. NLeeuw (talk) 12:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Ok I'm not gonna do this tonight, I'll have to take this up again another day. NLeeuw (talk) 20:37, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Ok with regards the ancient period, we've got the same choice

::::# Ancient history of Fooland

::::# Fooland in antiquity

::::# Ancient Fooland

:::::Category:Ancient history by country follows a mix of 1 and 3.

::::When you [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=500&offset=0&profile=default&search=In+antiquity&title=Special:Search&ns0=1 search for articles with "in antiquity"] in the title, they are about various topics and phenomena, but rarely about countries. Slavery in antiquity, science in classical antiquity, suicide in antiquity, colonies in antiquity, bears in antiquity.... a few countries: Romania, Poland, Azerbaijan in antiquity.

:::: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns0=1&search=Ancient+history+of "Ancient history of"] works much better to get country-themed articles. Lots of articles are names "Ancient history of Fooland" or "History of ancient Fooland". Option 1 has a very strong basis in the article space, unlike with "Medieval history of" / "History of medieval". Option 2 seems to be strongly tied to countries "in the Middle Ages", but very weakly tied to countries "in antiquity".

::::Option 3, "Ancient Fooland", has similar problems to option 2: it's often not about countries. And if it is, it may sometimes be considered anachronistic. E.g. "Ancient France' seems wrong, but with "Ancient Gaul" we probably have no problem (although "Ancient" seems redundant: we assume Gaul to be places in antiquity). "Ancient Russia" or "Ancient Ukraine" are somewhat dubious, but "Ancient Rus' " is sometimes used (although it refers to Middle Ages rather than antiquity, and the preferred term is "Kievan Rus'"). Similarly "Ancient England"... why should we call it "England" before there are any Angles there? {{xt|Ancient history of England}} seems much more tenable, because that way we're less trying to force "England" into antiquity where it wasn't yet known as such. And so on.

::::Overall, I think I'm starting to favour option 1 {{xt|Ancient/Medieval/Early modern history of Fooland}} for all catnames now.

::::https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=500&offset=0&profile=default&search=In+antiquity&title=Special:Search&ns0=1 NLeeuw (talk) 15:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

:::::A few exceptions may be made, especially for countries / societies / cultures which were already called by that name at the time. I don't think we should rename articles Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece to History of ancient Rome and History of ancient Greece, or something. That seems superfluous, especially with Rome. But for countries that didn't exist yet, {{xt|Ancient history of Fooland}} seems the way to go, both as maim articles titles and as catnames NLeeuw (talk) 15:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

:::::::Ancient Egypt is another one. I'm not sure how strong "they were called that at the time" is as a rationale; possibly a better argument might be that they're ancient civilisations more than countries, with those names as WP:COMMONNAMEs. Ham II (talk) 16:12, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

::::::I'm leaning option 1 now: {{xt|Ancient / Medieval / Early modern history of Fooland}}. It is the least ambiguous and anachronistic, and therefore most justifiable. It has a pretty strong basis in category and precedent, and some presence in the main article space (especially {{xt|ancient history of Fooland}}).

::::::Option 2 seems best fitted for subjects that aren't about countries, but social and cultural phenomena. Apart from several {{xt|Fooland in the Middle Ages}} articles, it does not have a strong basis in the article space, and virtually no basis in the category space.

::::::Option 3 has decent bases in both, but is most at risk of anachronisms. We seem to agree already that this is a no-go (also given precedent {{xt|Early modern history of Fooland}}). Only given exceptions such as Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece need not be changed. NLeeuw (talk) 01:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Update: I've now tagged all nominees with the Option 1 target name as a result of the preliminary discussion. I'd like to thank Marcocapelle and Ham II for their input. I've got two further questions at the moment:

::1. Should we leave the current names as redirects as soon as the proposal is approved? That would help editors (and readers) navigate and edit, and prevent re-creation and thus duplication. The current names often correspond to several main articles and links, so leaving redirects seems appropriate. Thoughts?

::2. Should we also rename the parent :Category:Middle Ages by country itself to :Category:Medieval history by country? That would be consistent with the proposed new names, as well as :Category:Ancient history by country and :Category:Modern history by country; however, it would not be consistent with :Category:Early modern period by country (main article early modern period), nor with its own parent :Category:Middle Ages (main article Middle Ages). But because :Category:Early modern period by country should arguably be renamed to :Category:Early modern history by country for the same C2C reason, I tend to think we should rename both. Thoughts? NLeeuw (talk) 10:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Support renaming to {{xt|Medieval history of Fooland}}, per my earlier comments. And, eventually, {{xt|Prehistory of / Ancient history of / Modern history of Fooland}}, to match {{xt|Medieval history of / Early modern history of Fooland}}. Ham II (talk) 16:12, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Battles involving Germanic peoples ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename and purge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Battles involving Germanic peoples to :Category:Battles involving early Germanic peoples

:Nominator's rationale: rename and purge, this is follow-up on many earlier renames, and there is e.g. parent :Category:Early Germanic warfare. Ancient Germanic peoples is a commonly used grouping in the Roman era but not so much in the middle ages. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Former synagogues Nebraska ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Former synagogues Nebraska to :Category:Former synagogues in Nebraska

:Nominator's rationale: Category should be renamed to match others in Category:Former synagogues in the United States by state Pretzelles (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename WP:C2C. NLeeuw (talk) 20:20, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename per WP:C2C. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:43, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename per both C2A and C2C. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Support: As the originator of the category, I clearly made a typo. Thanks for picking it up. Rangasyd (talk) 08:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

:’’’support rename’’’ —-W2024 (talk) 16:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Former synagogues Wisconsin ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Former synagogues Wisconsin to :Category:Former synagogues in Wisconsin

:Nominator's rationale: Category should be renamed to match others in Category:Former synagogues in the United States by state Pretzelles (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename WP:C2C. NLeeuw (talk) 20:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Speedy rename per WP:C2C Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:43, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

::Speedy rename per both C2A and C2C. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Support: As the originator of the category, I clearly made a typo. Thanks for picking it up. Rangasyd (talk) 08:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

: ‘’’support rename’’’ —-W2024 (talk) 16:31, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Bond (string quartet) ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Bond (string quartet)}}

:Nominator's rationale: With subcategories only for the quartet's albums and their covers, the eponymous category is unnecessary per WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 15:56, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Battles involving the Nizari Ismaili state ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Battles involving the Nizari Ismaili state to :Category:Wars involving the Nizari Ismaili state

:Nominator's rationale: 1 P. WP:MFN. Can't find other battles, so merging to wars seems the best option. NLeeuw (talk) 15:19, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Merge or delete, the latter because the article seems to imply that the Nizari Ismaili state was not really involved. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Central March ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Central March}}

:Nominator's rationale: 1 P. Just delete, not useful for navigation. Main article Central March is already in both parents, and the only article Wadih al-Siqlabi is a biography that fits neither parent. NLeeuw (talk) 15:15, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom. In addition, governor of the Central March seems to be a relatively minor position, not contributing much to the notability of the subject of the article. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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==Category:Vassal rulers of the Umayyad Caliphate==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Category:Vassal rulers of the Umayyad Caliphate

== Category:Government of the Ayyubid Sultanate ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Government of the Ayyubid Sultanate to :Category:Ayyubid Sultanate; purging child cats

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. Both child cats area already in :Category:People from the Ayyubid Sultanate, and both articles could easily be put in parent :Category:Ayyubid Sultanate (5 P, 2 of which are redirects). NLeeuw (talk) 15:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Oppose. The category is part of a wider category family on governments of historical states. What exactly is the gain of deleting it and upmerging, that is enough to counterbalance the loss in categorization? There are likely even more articles already on WP that can be added there, and certainly still more that can be written, as the topic is under-represented. Constantine ✍ 16:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :Easy navigation. NLeeuw (talk) 19:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. The two articles aren't really about government of the Ayyubid Sultanate, they are about the outskirts of it. If anything, they are about social geography rather than about government, but having them simply in the main category is even better. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :Good points. NLeeuw (talk) 19:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Government of the Samanid Empire ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Government of the Samanid Empire}}

:Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 1 C. Just delete as a redundant layer, while manually moving Ispahsalar (only article) to :Category:Samanid Empire; only child is already in :Category:People from the Samanid Empire. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 2#Category:Government of the Seljuk Empire (also Timurid, Ghaznavid, Aq Qoyunlu govts). NLeeuw (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Delete, possibly move the article to :Category:Samanid Empire but that is not even very necessary because the article is not specifically about the Samanid Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :Yeah it's not even necessary to move the article, but I wouldn't object to it. NLeeuw (talk) 19:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Ambassadors of the Republic of Venice to the Kingdom of Sardinia ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Ambassadors of the Republic of Venice to the Kingdom of Sardinia to :Category:Ambassadors of the Republic of Venice and :Category:Ambassadors to the Kingdom of Sardinia

:Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. WP:MFN. There are many, many underpopulated (1 to 4 P) ambassador cats like this created in February–May 2024 by the same person. Others were created longer ago. NLeeuw (talk) 14:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Oppose. The category is not arbitrary and has clearly room of expansion, as the Republic of Venice and the Kingdom of Sardinia overlapped by several centuries. If the category exists, articles will be added to it. If it is deleted, they won't; not many WP members are actively engaged in categorization. If a reader, like myself, is interested in the bilateral relations between Venice and specific other states, why should they go hunting in more generic categories? This equally applies to the other 'underpopulated categories' mentioned in the nomination. I really don't understand what the project gains from deletions like this. Constantine ✍ 16:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :The purpose of categories is easy navigation between articles. Categories in categories in categories which contain only 1 article do not ease navigation. NLeeuw (talk) 19:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge, per nom. One may be interested in this intersection, sure, but if there aren't any other articles then the most closely related articles are in the more general categories and merging helps navigation to them. Of course, no objection to recreate the category when some more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom. There categories are indeed extremely underpopulated, and often isolated from where readers expect to see them (somewhere in the modern country category typically). Mason (talk) 22:24, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:SaarLorLux Open ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:SaarLorLux Open to :Category:Hylo Open

:Nominator's rationale: Per the current article name Solidest (talk) 14:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Yes, rename. --Florentyna (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Government of the Almohad Caliphate ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Government of the Almohad Caliphate to :Category:People from the Almohad Caliphate

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Officials of the Almohad Caliphate to :Category:People from the Almohad Caliphate

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant layers. :Category:Officials of the Almohad Caliphate is already in the target category, and :Category:Almohad caliphs should also be, but isn't yet. :Category:Governors of the Almohad Caliphate is the only subcat of :Category:Officials of the Almohad Caliphate, and apart from Ibn Tufayl, it has no contents, so "Officials" is also a redundant layer. (I was able to populate :Category:Governors of the Almohad Caliphate from 2 to 6 p, so no reason to upmerge that one yet). Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 2#Category:Government of the Seljuk Empire (also Timurid, Ghaznavid, Aq Qoyunlu govts). NLeeuw (talk) 14:33, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Merge per nom. There isn't any topic article about government and biography subcats are perfectly fine under people. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Agree. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Government of the Khwarazmian Empire ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:55, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Government of the Khwarazmian Empire}}

:Nominator's rationale: Just delete as a redundant layer; only child is already in :Category:People from the Khwarazmian Empire. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 2#Category:Government of the Seljuk Empire (also Timurid, Ghaznavid, Aq Qoyunlu govts). NLeeuw (talk) 13:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Merge Delete per nom. There isn't any topic article about government and the biography subcat is perfectly fine under people. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:26, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

:*:Merge to what? I'm proposing to Just delete. NLeeuw (talk) 23:07, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:People by ethnic descent ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: manual merge (first four only). (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:11, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People of African descent by ethnicity to :Category:People by ethnic descent

:* Propose merging :Category:People of Asian descent by ethnicity to :Category:People by ethnic descent

:* Propose merging :Category:People of European descent by ethnicity‎ to :Category:People by ethnic descent

:* Propose merging :Category:People of North American descent by ethnicity to :Category:People by ethnic descent

:* Propose merging :Category:People of Oceanian descent by ethnicity to :Category:People by ethnic descent

:* Propose merging :Category:People of South American descent by ethnicity to :Category:People by ethnic descent‎

:Nominator's rationale: These categories are for people of different ethnic descents. There is nothing here specific to any particular continent. Additionally, the names might wrongly imply that this is the person's own ethnicity when, in reality, it refers to their ancestors' ethnicity. Aldij (talk) 12:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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==Auto racing teams==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Auto racing teams

==Category:Gilgit-Baltistan stubs==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 25%23Category:Gilgit-Baltistan stubs

== Category:Ancient tribes in Ukraine ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose upmerging :Category:Ancient tribes in Ukraine to :Category:Ancient peoples of Ukraine

:Nominator's rationale: 2 P, 0 C. WP:MFN Upmerge for now without prejudice. NLeeuw (talk) 06:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Gilgit-Baltistan history stubs ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Gilgit-Baltistan history stubs to :Category:Pakistani history stubs (and perhaps also to :Category:Gilgit-Baltistan stubs)

:* Propose merging :Category:Sindh history stubs to :Category:Pakistani history stubs

:Nominator's rationale: merge, poorly populated stub categories and we usually do not have stub history categories by Pakistani province. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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== Category:Events at the Amway Center ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 04:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Events at the Amway Center}}

:Nominator's rationale: I don't believe Wikipedia categorizes events by venue? Gjs238 (talk) 15:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

::Yes, Wikipedia does, in fact, categorize events by venue. Abhiramakella (talk) 08:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

::* {{ping|Abhiramakella}} :Category:Events by venue does not exist, so you need to be a bit more specific about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

::*:Well, there is :Category:Events at Allstate Arena. Abhiramakella (talk) 18:10, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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==Category:Galician films==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 27%23Category:Galician films

== Template:North-America-cricket-ground-stub ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete/merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 14:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lt|North-America-cricket-ground-stub}}

:* Propose merging {{cat|North American cricket ground stubs}} to ???

:Nominator's rationale: Used on only 3 articles. Merge the category to :Category:North American sports venue stubs. Follow-up CfD to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_May_26#Category:North_American_sports_venue_stubs. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Delete template and merge category but to :Category:Cricket ground stubs; do not also merge to the original North American target, as pages should all be within national sub-cats of that one. Implement by replacing stub link with {{tl|Cricket-ground-stub}}. – Fayenatic London 09:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Thoughts on FL's proposal?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:49, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Merge per Fayenatic london. As said, pages should mostly be directly in a country stub category. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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==Category:Circassia==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 27%23Category:Circassia

== Category:This TV affiliates ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 05:00, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|This TV affiliates}}

:Nominator's rationale: Network is now defunct Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

::Delete if Mvcg66b3r can provide reliable sources for this claim. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:24, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Lean keep. But why delete. Being defunct isn't a reason to delete. We'd have to delete :Category:Roman Empire, using that logic. Mason (talk) 23:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • {{ping|Smasongarrison}} :Category:Roman Empire is an encyclopedically relevant topic for historians, :Category:This TV affiliates is not comparable in that sense. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :My point was the OP's argument was not compelling by itself because that would mean that anything defunct would be worth deleting. (I picked the Roman Empire because it was obviously worth keeping, but would fail using op's argument) Mason (talk) 05:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Lean keep Main article This TV does not say anywhere explicitly that the network is defunct, just that its website went down in May 2024. Secondly, this category has a main article, List of This TV affiliates, implying that this subject qualifies for a stand-alone page. Personally, I think that article is poorly sourced, and perhaps it should be AfD'd, which would open the way for a deletion of this category. But until that happens, I don't see a compelling reason to delete the category just yet. NLeeuw (talk) 15:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

==Category:Battles involving ancient peoples==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 27%23Category:Battles involving ancient peoples

== Category:Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award ==

{{delrevxfd|date=2024 June 25|page=Category:Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award}}

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts talk 05:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award to :Category:Recipients of the Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award

:Nominator's rationale: Not even sure if this meets the criteria for a defining characteristic. Gjs238 (talk) 19:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

::This is probably the most prominent award for civil aviation that exists in the United States. It more than a defining characteristic. Nayyn (talk) 11:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Thoughts on deletion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

::Why are you deleting this?

::It discourages people from contributing to Wikipedia when you delete for absolutely no reason. Nayyn (talk) 18:35, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Gjs238 (talk) 12:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :If this award category should be deleted under those parameters you should then delete categories such as :Category:Piolet d'Or winners Nayyn (talk) 14:53, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:OCAWARD. --Lenticel (talk) 00:04, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  • :This is one of the most highest honors for civil aviation. I am not sure why it fails the WP:OCAWARD criteria Nayyn (talk) 14:17, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

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