--BDD (talk) 15:41, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Yugoslavia was much bigger than just Serbia. Here's a source for team appearances: [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/lid_38138_cp/1/rpp/150/tid/390/_//teams.html Yugo] vs [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp/100/tid/96799/_//teams.html Serbia]. Btw this redirect was created by Serbian editor. Pelmeen10 (talk) 17:18, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. In the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yugoslavia_national_under-20_basketball_team&action=history Yugoslavia national under-20 basketball team: Revision history] you could find that I created the redirection. And I am not a Serbian editor, I'm from Croatia. The redirection is created because the Yugoslavia national under-20 basketball team represented FR Yugoslavia at the FIBA Europe Under-20 Championship from 1996 to 2002. All information about it is well explained in the article Serbia men's national under-20 basketball team. Why is basketball achievements of FR Yugoslavia connected with Serbia could be found here: Serbia men's national basketball team and in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Serbia_men%27s_national_basketball_team Talk page] of that article. --IndexAccount (talk) 21:10, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
::You are forgetting that FIBA Europe Under-20 Championship includes European Championship for Men '22 and Under where Yugoslavia represented Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (that includes Slovenia, Macedonia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina). How is that Serbia? Again here's a [http://www.fiba.basketball/pages/eng/fa/p/lid_38138_cp/1/rpp/150/tid/390/_//teams.html source] Being connected does not mean it's the same and it's not the same. So the redirect is not factually correct. I don't get your other arguements, Yugoslavia (basketball team) is not redirected to Serbia (basketball team).--Pelmeen10 (talk) 06:08, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
:::It's misinterpreted once again. European Championship for Men '22 and Under' is inaugurated in 1992. Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is dissolute in 1992 and has no participation at the Championship. Further, SFR Yugoslavia is not FR Yugoslavia. FR Yugoslavia is one of successor countries (see here) and renamed in 2003 to Serbia and Montenegro. Players from Slovenia, Macedonia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina had never played for Yugoslavia at the European Championship for Men '22 and Under' because they represented their countries since the inauguration of the competition.--IndexAccount (talk) 09:02, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
::::Still you don't have any source to back your claim that Yugoslav team is the same as Serbian. FIBA presents them seperately. [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/lid_38138_cp/1/rpp/150/tid/390/_//teams.html Yugoslavia] vs [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp/100/tid/92330/_//teams.html Serbia & Montenegro] vs [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp/100/tid/96799/_//teams.html Serbia]. Why can't you present the statistics in correct articles rather than "Representing Yugoslavia / Serbia and Montenegro / Serbia" all in one place? It was a joint team with Montenegrin people, players such as Aleksandar Pavlović, Predrag Drobnjak, Vlado Šćepanović, Đuro Ostojić etc can't be called Serbian. The teams separated - [http://www.fiba.basketball/news/SCG-Big-changes-on-the-way-for-Serbia-Montenegro Big changes on the way for Serbia & Montenegro] --Pelmeen10 (talk) 10:39, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
::::: First of all, you have proven that you do not understand the term Yugoslavia. Also, you made a huge mistake in your comment on 18 July 2018 (UTC) 06:08 about European Championship for Men '22 and Under'. So, it seems, you're not a referent on this issue. Second, your source [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/lid_38138_cp/1/rpp/150/tid/390/_//teams.html here] merged results of national teams of SFR Yugoslavia (23 million people) and FR Yugoslavia (10 million people). Being connected does not mean it's the same and it's not the same, as you said. What about that? I dont's see any progress in this discussion. --IndexAccount (talk) 09:52, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::Redirecting anything Yugoslavia-related (like the basketball team) to Serbia only proves that you are not acknowledging the facts. Besides that, you are going off topic. You are basically saying that we have to distinguish SFR Yugoslavia and FR Yugoslavia, but it's okay to confuse FR Yugoslavia and Serbia. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 11:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Point 1: SFR Yugoslavia vs FR Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro – It's clear that SFR Yugoslavia and FR Yugoslavia are two different countries (same like the Soviet Union and Estonia), while FR Yugoslavia and Serbia and Montenegro are the same country. It means that Yugoslavia in 1985 is not a same as Yugoslavia in 1995, while Yugoslavia in 1995 is the same as Serbia and Montenegro in 2005. That are facts. The problem with your source [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/lid_38138_cp/1/rpp/150/tid/390/_//teams.html here] is that it merges the results of two different countries. The problem with your source [https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp/100/tid/92330/_//teams.html here] is that it presents a part of the results of one countries. That are facts.
::::::::Not connected to this Rfd. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Point 2: FR Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro vs Serbia – Cannot be related to the Point 1. Montenegro was like 10% of FR Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro. The fact is that a wast majority of players born in Montenegro and represented FR Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro hold both Montenegrin and Serbian passport. The same case in not for players born in Serbia. Players such as Aleksandar Pavlović and Nikola Peković are the Serbs of Montenegro and both hold Serbian passport.
::::::::That's the reason for this Rfd - 90% is not 100%. Also disrespectful againt Montenegrin people. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Point 3: Your vandalism – I have seen what you did in articles such as Yugoslavia national basketball team or Serbia men's national basketball team and it's clear that you don't understand the topic. Also, in your argument you use whataboutism often and missing the point. You are making harm to people such as User:Bozalegenda, also. Further, you shoved a few misunderstandings in your comments in this discussion. --IndexAccount (talk) 10:13, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Not connected to this Rfd. Content dispute is not vandalism, but some Bozalegenda's edits were vandalism - the reason this user got topic ban (I'm not an admin, so not my decision). Whataboutism is something you are using in this discussion. You are going off-topic in your every response. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::{{reply|Pelmeen10}} Man once again you are making a fool of yourself. I was not blocked because of vandalism, I was blocked because i broke the three-revert rule. And I was blocked only for two weeks and that period is over a long long time ago. I just didnt want to edit english wikipedia anymore. And im happy that articles about Serbian and Yugoslav national basketball team are now on my version, and that other users reverted your version which is ridiculous bullshit. The only person who is making vandalism here is you. You dont know anything about Yugoslavia history and you want to discuss about that??? Multiple users explained you everything and you still have your ridicoulus version. And for the millionth time that FIBA archive table is not reliable, just like we dont use that table at Zaire/DR Congo or Formosa/Taiwan/Taipei national teams we dont need to use that at Yugoslavia national team.--Bozalegenda (talk) 21:39, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}Relisting comment: A reminder that the conduct of editors is
not what we are here to discuss. All editors should also be aware that this is an area under
discretionary sanctions following
Arbitration.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Amory (u • t • c) 15:15, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: Another tired nationalistic dispute, sigh. I find this a plausible redirect, and if anyone advocating otherwise thinks differently, then why aren't they spending their time writing it to an article-standard instead of arguing here? Ravenswing 00:45, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep contains content relevant to the redirect. feminist (talk) 12:54, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
