Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Admin preferences for Special pages
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Category:Wikipedia village pump
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{{Village pump page header|1=Technical|2=The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).
If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for {{Th/abp|age|{{{root|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|cfg={{{cfg|1}}}|r=y}} {{Th/abp|units|{{{root|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|cfg={{{cfg|1}}}|r=y}}.
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Sub-referencing: User testing
File:Sub-referencing reuse visual.png
Hi I’m Johannes from Wikimedia Deutschland's Technical Wishes team. We are making great strides with the new sub-referencing feature and we’d love to invite you to take part in two activities to help us move this work further:
- Try it out and share your feedback
- :Please try the updated wikitext feature [https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Sub-referencing on the beta wiki] and let us know what you think, either on our talk page or by [https://greatquestion.co/wikimediadeutschland/talktotechwish booking a call] with our UX researcher.
- Get a sneak peak and help shape the Visual Editor user designs
- :Help us test the new design prototypes by participating in user sessions – [https://greatquestion.co/wikimediadeutschland/gxk0taud/apply sign up here to receive an invite]. We're especially hoping to speak with people from underrepresented and diverse groups. If that's you, please consider signing up! No prior or extensive editing experience is required. User sessions will start May 14th.
We plan to bring this feature to Wikimedia wikis later this year. We’ll reach out to wikis for piloting in time for deployments. Creators and maintainers of reference-related tools and templates will be contacted beforehand as well.
Thank you very much for your support and encouragement so far in helping bring this feature to life! Johannes Richter (WMDE) (talk) 15:06, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
: If only you hadn't decided that VE's shortcomings meant you had to change from the straightforward syntax people had hammered out over years of discussion to a previously rejected option that tries to shove wikitext into a tag parameter. Anomie⚔ 12:41, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
::Yes, the previous approach of wrapping a subreference citation in {{tag|ref}} with a parameter identifying the main citation was much cleaner and more flexible. It also allowed for generating metadata. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 14:36, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your feedback! See :meta:Talk:WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing#Moving forward with sub-referencing for a detailed explanation why we chose the new syntax approach. In short: One of the main goals of sub-referencing was providing a MediaWiki solution for re-using references with different details which works for all users, no matter which editing interface they use. That's why we reached out to communities for feedback last year and decided to go with the new syntax. Johannes Richter (WMDE) (talk) 08:01, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::: I've commented there already, and you ignored me there too. I read your reasoning there as "VE has shortcomings and we don't want to fix it, so we're choosing a worse solution". Anomie⚔ 11:20, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Sorry for leaving your comment [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WMDE_Technical_Wishes/Sub-referencing#c-Anomie-20250302003800-Johannes_Richter_(WMDE)-20250131115700] without a reply, I was on leave until this week [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Richter_(WMDE)?diff=prev&oldid=1287795180]. Please note that WMDE Technical Wishes is a small team dedicated to improve certain MediaWiki features. We do not have the resources to take on VisualEditor, that's what the Wikimedia Foundation is doing. We were faced with the option to stop our work on sub-referencing indefinitely – despite having worked on it for years – or continue with a different approach. Based on community feedback from different projects we decided to do the latter. Johannes Richter (WMDE) (talk) 12:19, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::I can't speak for {{U|Anomie}}, but personally, I worry with a new feature like this that it will be deployed half-baked, as the Visual Editor and Vector 2022 and dark mode have been, and then the developers will move on to another project, even as volunteer editors dutifully report bugs in Phabricator. If the Wikimedia Foundation has a lot of resources and still lets the Visual Editor and Vector 2022 languish for years with unresolved bugs that make life difficult for editors who need to fix or work around problems, how is the WMDE going to address the inevitable bugs that are reported when editors get their hands on this new feature and start making a mess? – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:32, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks for your feedback. As with any other feature we've developed in past years [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMDE_Technical_Wishes] we will continue to provide support for sub-references after deployment. Johannes Richter (WMDE) (talk) 10:46, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:Will there be a way to make it as user-friendly as {{tlx|sfn}} (which creates nice and readable wikitext) by suitable wrapper templates? And how would something like {{tlx|sfnm}} work with sub-references? —Kusma (talk) 13:44, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::sfn and sfnm would need to be provided the parent's name in addition to their current information, and the general references would need to be moved into a <references> or equivalent (at a minimum). At which point it is a serious question whether even to continue using sfn on any specific page. There is no template-use-wide promotion from one system to the other without bot or script or manual effort. Izno (talk) 15:40, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::So there's no way to make an intelligent version of {{tlx|sfn}}? The "parent" of {{tlx|sfn|Foo|Bar|2019|pp=3–5}} should obviously be CITEREFFooBar2019, which would need to be put somewhere as reference but that should not be necessary to specify again. I don't quite understand how {{tlx|sfnm}} could be emulated, though.
:::I can't personally see how the new system would be generally superior to use of our current sfn (but I can see that it would greatly improve the citation sections of German Wikipedia, where the use of citation templates is much less common than here). It will be just another citation style with its own set of advantages and disadvantages. —Kusma (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::::There is no way to make an intelligent version of sfn that is guaranteed to work into the arbitrary future, even if it potentially works now, based on statements already made by the parsing team. And based on how strip markers work, I am pretty sure it would not be something that could be used today.
::::sfnm would need a new additional syntax, 1ap=Parent_Name or similar, just the same as sfn.
::::{{tq|I can't personally see how the new system would be generally superior to use of our current sfn}} There are two primary preferable factors.
::::# It would not rely on templates, making it much more suitable for large pages. Eventually, we may even be able to remove the IDs that the cite modules output, benefiting the largest pages (WP:PEIS would be reduced).
::::# It integrates well with the Cite display. References in the reference list will be listed in the context of their parent, rather than arbitrarily located. And also, there will be integration with reference popups, so that you can see both the child and parent reference at the same time.
::::I think the second factors are the pretty killer feature that doom sfn, but being able to decrease the output of our citation module would be another win. And would coincidentally fix the issue that a number of Wikipedians think is a non-issue with respect to ouptutting duplicate IDs on many pages. Izno (talk) 16:54, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I haven't actually met WP:PEIS in articles yet, so I don't think it is a huge issue. And the code looks a bit messy so I am sure people will use suitable wrapper templates anyway. For the second point, the proposal replaces one arbitrary ordering (by the point where a specific reference including page number is first used in an article) by a different arbitrary ordering (by the point where a specific reference is first used, and these are then sorted by where the specific page number is first used). It is just a new and additional citation style. I don't think the features are "killer" enough to convince the people at FAC to make this the default in less than a decade or two. —Kusma (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::@Kusma I monitor [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&search=incategory%3A%22Pages+where+post-expand+include+size+is+exceeded%22&ns0=1 this search], and there are usually half a dozen or so articles per day that exceed the limit and need to be fixed. I'd say that the majority of my edits these days are fixing WP:PEIS errors in mainspace. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 19:08, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@Ahecht, thank you. From a cursory glance, excerpt transclusion and flags seem to be typical culprits, mostly in list-type articles (which I don't interact with much). Are there any where citation templates are a problem? That would be very useful to know for the folks over at Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources#RFC_on_preferring_templates_in_citations. —Kusma (talk) 19:49, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@Kusma Sure, there are lots of longer pages where a majority of the post-expand include size is citation templates. In many of these cases this could be fixed by using {{mlx|cite|web}} in place of {{tlx|cite web}} (the former has half the include size of the latter), but that's usually a last resort since it makes the source "ugly". Usually, if an article has so many citations that the citation templates are the problem (and we're often talking close to 1,000 citations), it's time to split the article anyway. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 21:22, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
Prevalence of citation templates
Related to Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#" The use of citation templates is neither encouraged nor discouraged":
Can someone estimate what percentage of articles are using Wikipedia:Citation templates?
An ideal answer might sound something like "As of 2025, we estimate that 3% of the {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} mainspace articles are disambiguation pages, 1% are unsourced, 5% contain only general references or inline citations not using footnotes, 75% contain at least one ref tag with a detectable citation template, and 16% contain refs but no detectable citation template".
I've tried an estimate with hastemplate:cite_book
in Special:Search and come up with about 5.3 million articles for the four basic citation templates (cite web/news/book/journal). This is probably a good enough estimate, but if there are better ways to find this, I'd be happy to have better numbers. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:35, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:Since all of the cs1|2 templates use Module:Citation/CS1, [https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&namespace=828&name=Citation/CS1 this link] should give a close approximation of how may article use that module – at this writing 6.1 million-ish.
:—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::Does that count include only the article namespace or are drafts and userspace etc. included? —Kusma (talk) 20:50, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::All namespaces. For mainspace only, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=hastemplate%3A%22Module%3ACitation%2FCS1%22&ns0=1 this search] shows 5.5 million-ish articles.
:::—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::::That's close enough. Does anyone remember offhand whether dab pages are included in the 6.98 million articles? (If not, then that's a bit more than 78% of articles; if so, then it's closer to 81%. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:14, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::They are. (See also phab:T41913.) Izno (talk) 23:32, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::That says 5–6% are dab pages. That means 83% of non-dab articles contain at least one citation template. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:35, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} note that disambiguation pages can contain citations, even though it is unusual. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=hastemplate%3A%22Module%3ACitation%2FCS1%22+hastemplate%3Adisambiguation&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 This search] finds 118 disambiguation pages with citations; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=hastemplate%3A%22Module%3ACitation%2FCS1%22+hastemplate%3Admbox&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 including set index pages] that rises to 13000. MKFI (talk) 11:58, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I thought we actually had a rule against adding citations to dab pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:48, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes, disambiguation pages with references would be considered as an error. Editors unfamiliar with WP:DDD may occasionally add references. older ≠ wiser 19:53, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::: But citations are allowed for the very similar Set Index pages.Nigel Ish (talk) 10:19, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Edit summary search
Is there an edit summary search tool that allows searching of all edits, not only those of a specific editor? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:44, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:Nope, there isn't. And unfortunately, due to the way the Wikipedia database is,creating such a tool would be impossible for performance reasons. See my discussion with Cryptic about this sort of thing at {{section link|Wikipedia:Request a query/Archive 2|Searching for edit summary text over the revision table}}. The discussion is from 2021 and I'm by know means an expert here, but I'm pretty certain nothing has significantly changed since then ... (a) I can't find any evidence from places like the MediaWiki.org manual on the comment database table and (b) database schema changes are complicated and widely announced. The only reason the edit summary search tool works at all is that it searches by the contributor's name. Edit summarry searches on edits made within a particular time period up to a year (or in changes made in the last thirty days, that are in the recentchanges table) could be possible (if there aren't too many results) but may be very slow. Graham87 (talk) 02:21, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Help with image placement on article
I am having difficulty with the placement of an image at Grand Prix de France (figure skating). When shown in preview mode, the image of the magazine cover is in the right place, but when published, the image appears at the bottom of the History section. What am I doing wrong, or can anyone help me out, please? Thank you so much for any assistance. Bgsu98 (Talk) 07:14, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Bgsu98}} This is the many-floating-objects problem. The top edge of :File:Skating Magazine Cover January 1989.jpg cannot be displayed any earlier than the top edge of :File:Chock, Bates, Papadakis, Cizeron, Guignard, Fabbri - 2019 Internationaux de France - 2.jpg, which itself is constrained by the bottom edge of :File:TEB2009 Pairs Podium.jpg; and so on up the page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:20, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::@Redrose64: Okay, I got the image up to where it should be, but the text appears below the image and not next to it. Any suggestions? Bgsu98 (Talk) 11:36, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Personally, I would question the need for four photos of gold, silver, and bronze medallists in the lead section - I would have used just one; either the most recent medallists, or those of the inaugural competition. I would then have put that photo into the infobox: {{tlx|Infobox recurring event}} provides {{para|image}} and {{para|caption}} parameters which may be used for this. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:08, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::::I have arranged them into a gallery, which seems to solve the immediate problem, although I would prefer to have them down the right hand side of the article. (BTW, the reason for four photos is the four different events held at the competition.) I do appreciate your assistance. Bgsu98 (Talk) 13:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::OK then, if you want all four images in the lead, what I would do is: go back to {{oldid|Grand Prix de France (figure skating)|1288540691|the version as it was}} when you raised this thread. Then add {{tlx|stack begin}} immediately before the infobox, and add {{tlx|stack end}} immediately after the fourth image, before the start of the text. I have demonstrated this at {{oldid|Wikipedia:Sandbox|1288566343|the sandbox}}. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:10, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::That's perfect; thank you so much! Bgsu98 (Talk) 14:50, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
FYI: Something is broken with [[Template:Purple]]
{{tracked|T393237}}
If you're seeing messages like
[e58f25ca-7f21-4e6f-b057-1f2eda683533] 2025-05-03 15:21:42: Fatal exception of type "MediaWiki\Revision\RevisionAccessException"at the moment, check if the page is transcluding Template:Purple. Other than editing the page to no longer transclude the template, I don't know of any fix for this until WMF people get a chance to look at it. I tried editing or deleting the template, but everything failed with the same exception. If Special:EditPage/Template:Purple starts working, that probably means they've fixed the problem. Anomie⚔ 15:50, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:@Anomie Hm, that is weird, Nihiltres removes
::The [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Purple&action=history history] is available, and the most recent version that doesn't throw an error is {{oldid|Template:Purple|265949183|17:52, 23 January 2009}}, which is editable. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:07, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::@Redrose64 If you do an export you can get the revision after that one too. But the weird thing is that it has a self-closing
::::The phab ticket appears to show that database rows have been deleted, some of which where still in use. That might explain why the history no longer makes any sense. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 18:43, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::It does, thanks. Polygnotus (talk) 19:07, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:You can still run 'What links here'[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Purple&limit=250], most articles just display the error message. Any article that doesn't display the message will if you purge it, so it's only a matter of time before all those articles are broken. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 18:46, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
::@ActivelyDisinterested Should we be temporarily removing the template, or waiting for a fix. Having articles like American English broken seems not very reader-friendly. Cremastra talk 19:45, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm guessing it was transcluded into American English by a template of another article, as that article is fixed now and I can't see any related edit in the articles history. I would say to wait for the WMF to fix the issue, but that doesn't appear to be taking it's time. For some articles, Diego de Almagro for example, it requires a minor change and I'm not sure it's even truly necessary, others like Chinese classifier it's usage is complex and should probably be left for the fix. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Looks like the template is fixed now. Anomie⚔ 03:38, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Patched, rather than fixed. It appears that {{user|Zabe}} has gone back to the most recent viewable revision, edited that to remove an undesirable blank line at the top, also the redundant {{tlx|pp-template}}, and {{diff|Template:Purple|1288629141|265949183|saved that}}. The intervening versions remain corrupt. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Without url-status live cite template defaults to archive first
If you don't stick a {{para|url-status}} in a cite template then it defaults to the archive url; why? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Polygnotus (talk) 17:19, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Polygnotus}} This was decided at Help talk:Citation Style 1, and should be discussed there. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:09, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
The insert downbar is missing
Suddenly the bar to insert special characters disappeared. Is this a consequence of some update? Svartner (talk) 03:21, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:It's occurring in the Vector Legacy template at least. Svartner (talk) 03:34, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::@Svartner I tried testing the special characters menus in Vector-2022, Vector-Legacy, and Monobook, and they all (both top and bottom menus, on Enwiki) seem to work: Screenshot. (I also tested them in the visual editor, with the same results). I wonder if it might be related to other settings that you use. If you're still experiencing this problem, please (1) clarify if you're talking about the top or bottom special characters menu in the source editor, or the top-menu in the visual editor, (2) try testing with all your gadgets/user-scripts disabled via safemode=1 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&safemode=1 e.g. this link]), (3) perhaps link to a screenshot of the problem, if it's more complex to describe in words. -- I hope that helps. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:::{{replyto|Svartner}} At {{myprefs|Gadgets}} make sure that "{{int:Gadget-charinsert}}" is enabled. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:05, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::::The option is enabled, but the toolbar still disappeared. I guess it's a bug in the Vector Legacy template. Svartner (talk) 03:36, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Try these links:
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=cologneblue Edit the sandbox using Cologne Blue]
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=minerva Edit the sandbox using Minerva Neue]
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=modern Edit the sandbox using Modern]
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=monobook Edit the sandbox using MonoBook]
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=timeless Edit the sandbox using Timeless]
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=vector-2022 Edit the sandbox using Vector 2022]
:::::*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=vector Edit the sandbox using Vector Legacy]
:::::When I do so, {{wfm}} in all skins, including Vector legacy. Sometimes, there's a slight delay before the box appears, but that often happens with JavaScript. There might be some collision between the charinsert gadget and some other gadget that you have enabled. Other than that, it's going to be something at your end - a browser setting, most likely. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 06:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Done, worked after I deleted all the browser cookies. Thank you so much. Svartner (talk) 12:18, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Is about the bottom special characters ([https://ibb.co/0RgwYLng ]) Svartner (talk) 03:40, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
Dual right-float interaction: 'Pinned' box showing up in wrong Teahouse discussion
If you go to the WP:Teahouse, the top discussion, {{slink|WP:TEA|Assistance for new editors unable to post here|nopage=yes}} is pinned with the {{t|Pinned}} template, which displays a small, right-floated box identifying the archive suppression. However, the 'Pinned' box appears down the page, currently near the bottom of the second discussion. This is also where the long, right-floated Table of Contents ends. It seems clear that there is some kind of unintended interaction of two right-floated elements, which I would have expected to see with the inner one right-floated within the outer one, not after it.
Anyway, I tried various adjustments usings breaks and clears and other things, and was not able to get the 'Pinned' box back to the top discussion where it belongs. CSS hero needed. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 09:21, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:Mathglot, what skin is this? It looks fine for me on V22. — Qwerfjkltalk 10:19, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:I added overflow: hidden
to the yellow box in that section to trap the floating elements inside the box (see explanation at [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/CSS_display/Block_formatting_context#contain_internal_floats MDN: Block_formatting_context#contain_internal_floats]).
:* Before: Vector legacy / Vector 2022
:* After: Vector legacy / Vector 2022
:Matma Rex talk 17:34, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:@Mathglot Re [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Teahouse&diff=prev&oldid=1288971509], display: flow-root
works too, but it's a relatively new feature (https://caniuse.com/flow-root) and I didn't want to have to figure out which browsers it would or wouldn't work on. Matma Rex talk 18:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:: {{ec}} {{u|Matma Rex}}, many thanks for that, and especially for the BFC link, which kind of unlocked a door for me. My knowledge of the box model was pretty good, but I was sadly lacking in BFC and its effects, and have been reading up. I came up with an alternate solution of defining that div as a {{kbd|flow-root}} which feels like attacking it top-down, so to speak, instead of using overflow:hidden which feels like mopping up after, sort of. This works, too (at least on V2010). Can you have a quick look and see if this seems like a decent approach, or should we go back to yours? I am still reading (and found several other good sources, including [https://dev.to/anewman15/describe-block-formatting-context-and-how-it-works-4fkh this one], which works for me) but your link to MDN is what got me started. And thanks for the phab links, that's my next stop.
:: {{u|Qwerfjkl}}, I am on Vector legacy, in fact. Can you have a quick look at the Teahouse again, to make sure that my recent change in approach did not break it for V22? I am a neophyte in BFC, but I need to get on board, and this is helping me a lot. Mathglot (talk) 18:34, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::: (post-ec) {{u|Matma Rex}}, oh, so I should revert my change for maximum robustness, would you agree? Mathglot (talk) 18:36, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::::It's probably fine. Matma Rex talk 18:40, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::::: Just noticed your caniuse link: what a great resource for looking at browser compatibility issues. Only, they don't have a column for the best browser (ahem) which is Vivaldi! Also, that took me to something called the [https://www.w3schools.com/howto/howto_css_clearfix.asp clearfix hack]; I presume that was what your original fix was, right? Mathglot (talk) 20:00, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::: There are two varieties of clear fix. One just adds a thing that clears like {{tl|clear}} to the end of the container, which is employed here and there for floating things but can make downstream behavior kind of hard to predict for a template user (and may add undesirable padding). The second is to add some CSS :after
the element you're trying to ensure clears the entirety of the internal elements, but that requires TemplateStyles. Generally, flow-root
is probably the right approach today if you don't want to add a clear fix, and has been in use in a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2Fflow-root%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns10=1&ns828=1 few widely used templates] for a bit now. (At worst, there is some non-optimal display in browsers that are presently old enough soon to be in the MediaWiki Basic support level, but nothing that would prevent a user from reading the text.) And using flow-root
directly makes the natural upgrade to flow root
at a much later date easy to know and perform trivially. That said, I'm pretty sure I've bumped into some pecularities here and there with flow-root, or at least have felt tweaked by it. Izno (talk) 20:29, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::: As for Vivaldi, it it obviously a Chromium browser and as such does not need separate tracking from the multiple other Chromium browsers. ;) One thing to look for besides MDN for quality of support is the statements at the top of MDN and elsewhere that call specific properties out as "baseline", for example [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/display MDN for display] has "Baseline Widely available *", which can be more or less trusted to hit a significant chunk of our audience. Izno (talk) 20:31, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Much appreciated; thanks! Mathglot (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
Reply tool
Don't know why it's taken me this long to ask, but I can't copy and paste links when using the reply tool, it turns the link https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315698014/world-monarchies-dynasties-john-middleton into "World Monarchies and Dynasties | John Middleton | Taylor & Francis eBo". To get round this I've been copying the link into [https://notes.io/ notes.io] and then copy-pasting part of the link, ie. "ttps://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315698014/world-monarchies-dynasties-john-middleton". Does anyone else have this problem?
Sidenote, an improvement to the reply tool could be that using {{tl|od}} removes all indents? At the moment the indents stay the same as when you don't use it. Kowal2701 (talk) 14:37, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:Kowal2701, do you happen to be using the Edge browser? To disable this behavior: go to Settings → section "Share, copy, and paste" → select "Plain text". Hope this helps. —andrybak (talk) 14:41, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::@Andrybak That's worked, thank you so much! That's been such a pain lol. And at WP:Talk pages project#Limitations it says the reply tool won't work with od, so it's already something they've thought about Kowal2701 (talk) 14:49, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:Without changing the settings, you can also try using Ctrl-Shift-V to paste plain text, or right mouse click -> Paste as -> Plain text. isaacl (talk) 15:13, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:This problem happens because when you copy "
"This editor has been thanked ____ times" userbox
I'd like to make a userbox for my collection that generates a "This editor has been thanked ____ times", and which auto-populates the blank with the number of thanks received in the "Thanks log" (it would be a real pain to maintain manually for me). Is this feasible? BD2412 T 18:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
: Not a full solution, but monitor WP:QUARRY#Number of thanks received for possible help in that direction. I suspect a module could be written to run it and return the value, and then either wrap it in a template or invoke it from your userbox, but you would still need to write the module. Anyway, this is a starting point. Mathglot (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:: Thanks. This is not just for me, by the way, I have seen another editor keeping a manual count of their thanks received, and it struck me that this was a good metric to post. BD2412 T 20:24, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Indeed. I am interested in a subset of this, involving being thanked for a revert. Sometimes when I revert an edit, depending on some combination of the user's level of good-faith editing, amount of effort they expended on their edit, and their newcomer status, I will leave a very detailed edit summary, both to let them down gently about why I reverted their edit, and to try to link relevant P&G and explain how to avoid the issue in the future. Some of those editors then come back and thank me for reverting them (or, more likely, for the long explanation). In any case, that is a particularly gratifying kind of thanks to receive. If your user box works out, it would be nice to have it be extensible in various directions, such that it would, as an option, provide the "thanks for reverting me" count, and link it to the Quarry query so you could execute it and see the list. I can imagine other thanks-interested users might have other subsets of thanks they might want to examine, and your user box solution, if it works out, could, I hope, be the baseline for several flavors of thanks queries. Good luck, and I am very interested to see how this develops. {{ec}} Mathglot (talk) 20:41, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::@Mathglot Unless something has changed, modules can't run database queries. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 14:07, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::: Yes, but bots can, apparently, and another way was proposed involving {{t|database report}} and that seems like the way to go. Mathglot (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:Auto-population is not possible in current wikitext. Izno (talk) 20:32, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:: At worst, one could very easily create a userbox template that says, "See how many times this user has been thanked", and link 'how many times' to the Quarry query, and 'been thanked' to the first 50 in the log. Find an existing userbox with colors and styles that you like, and some new text for it, or create one, and I can update it to provide the links. Mathglot (talk) 20:48, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:::You could probably wrangle SDZeroBot into wrapping onlyinclude tags around the query result on a {{tl|database report}} subpage. —Cryptic 23:14, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:::: Oooh, I need to look into that! Great tip. Mathglot (talk) 23:46, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:"This user has given thanks _____ times" might also be a good thing. DuncanHill (talk) 20:37, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:: What about userbox operation with text something like this:
::* {{tlx|userbox thank stats|to-me{{=}}yes|by-me{{=}}yes}} ⟶ "See how many times this user has [Quarry-link-1 been thanked] or [Quarry-link-2 thanked others]"
:: Or suggest wording. Mathglot (talk) 20:55, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
: {{u|BD2412}}, here's [https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/93358 your quarry query], thanks to Cryptic. It has to be run each time, but as mentioned above, it could be embedded as a link in a user box, if you wish. Mathglot (talk) 23:20, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:: Thank you, that is something. Is there a way another editor could personalize it to themselves? Or would they just need to request a new query? BD2412 T 23:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::: I think Cryptic's suggestion @23:14 above is the way to go. I think we probably have what we need to get you something closer or even exactly what you want, and we should probably adjourn here and move to your Talk page to deal with the details of implementing a new {{t|database report}} for you that other VPT readers won't be interested in. That said, keep monitoring this page in case someone comes up with an even better idea, but failing that, I think we are done here. Rendezvous at your Talk page. Mathglot (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::To make this into a service for everyone: editors sign up with their username listed on a page. This page is read by a bot running on Toolforge or anywhere. For each name the bot retrieves the Quarry results once a day, and posts the results to a Commons .tab page (JSON object). The JSON is retrieved by a Module on Enwiki using mw.ext.data.get(), which displays the results in the userbox, via a template that invokes the Module. Since the JSON is hosted on Commons, it would be accessible to all 300+ wikis, and so the list of usernames in step 1 could be hosted on metawiki to make into a multi-site service. -- GreenC 01:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::A singular database report could list top 10,000 or so editors by number of thanks, and a module could extract the numbers to show on the userbox. Here's a module I created to extract my editcount and rank from the Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of edits. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 05:05, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Reluctant to do this, because it seems more likely to be used for evil than good, but enh. Remember to like and subscribe. —Cryptic 09:01, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I can't believe that this didn't already exist :) —Alalch E. 17:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
Tech News: 2025-19
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Weekly highlight
- The Wikimedia Foundation has shared the latest draft update to their annual plan for next year (July 2025–June 2026). This includes an executive summary (also on Diff), details about the three main goals (Infrastructure, Volunteer Support, and Effectiveness), global trends, and the budget and financial model. Feedback and questions are welcome on the talk page until the end of May.
Updates for editors
- For wikis that have the CampaignEvents extension enabled, two new feature improvements have been released:
- Admins can now choose which namespaces are permitted for Event Registration via Community Configuration (documentation). The default setup is for event registration to be permitted in the Event namespace, but other namespaces (such as the project namespace or WikiProject namespace) can now be added. With this change, communities like WikiProjects can now more easily use Event Registration for their collaborative activities.
- Editors can now transclude the Collaboration List on a wiki page (documentation). The Collaboration List is an automated list of events and WikiProjects on the wikis, accessed via {{#special:AllEvents}} (example). Now, the Collaboration List can be added to all sorts of wiki pages, such as: a wiki mainpage, a WikiProject page, an affiliate page, an event page, or even a user page.
- File:Octicons-sync.svg View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were resolved last week.
Updates for technical contributors
- Developers who use the
moment
library in gadgets and user scripts should revise their code to use alternatives like theIntl
library or the newmediawiki.DateFormatter
library. Themoment
library has been deprecated and will begin to log messages in the developer console. You can see a global search for current uses, and ask related questions in this Phabricator task. - Developers who maintain a tool that queries the Wikidata term store tables (
wbt_*
) need to update their code to connect to a separate database cluster. These tables are being split into a separate database cluster. Tools that query those tables via the wiki replicas must be adapted to connect to the new cluster instead. Documentation and related links are available. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T390954] - File:Octicons-sync.svg Detailed code updates later this week: MediaWiki
In depth
- The latest Chart Project newsletter is available. It includes updates on preparing to expand the deployment to additional wikis as soon as this week (starting May 6) and scaling up over the following weeks, plus exploring filtering and transforming source data.
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
MediaWiki message delivery 00:11, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
Lost the delete button again
Hi. I've lost the ability to delete. It was fine yesterday but today the option has disappeared from the "Page" drop-down. This isn't the first time it's happened. Last time this happened, all the suggested solutions failed but the option was restored without explanation. Deb (talk) 08:14, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:Well, it's back again. I wonder if I'll ever know what caused it. Deb (talk) 09:18, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::If it happens again then try Special:DeletePage or add ?safemode=1
to the url of a wiki page. It doesn't fix the original problem but you can probably delete while the problem persists. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:10, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::Also, try a different skin, and see if it's still missing. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:25, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:One odd thing is it looks like you are 2x or even 3x loading a related userscript in (via your global.js, commons.js, and monobook.js). May want to review that. — xaosflux Talk 10:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
We will be enabling the new Charts extension on your wiki soon!
(Apologies for posting in English)
Hi all! We have good news to share regarding the ongoing problem with graphs and charts affecting all wikis that use them.
As you probably know, the old Graph extension was disabled in 2023 due to security reasons. We’ve worked in these two years to find a solution that could replace the old extension, and provide a safer and better solution to users who wanted to showcase graphs and charts in their articles. We therefore developed the Charts extension, which will be replacing the old Graph extension and potentially also the EasyTimeline extension.
After successfully deploying the extension on Italian, Swedish, and Hebrew Wikipedia, as well as on MediaWiki.org, as part of a pilot phase, we are now happy to announce that we are moving forward with the next phase of deployment, which will also include your wiki.
The deployment will happen in batches, and will start from May 6. Please, consult our page on MediaWiki.org to discover when the new Charts extension will be deployed on your wiki. You can also consult the documentation about the extension on MediaWiki.org.
If you have questions, need clarifications, or just want to express your opinion about it, please refer to the project’s talk page on Mediawiki.org, or ping me directly under this thread. If you encounter issues using Charts once it gets enabled on your wiki, please report it on the talk page or at Phabricator.
Thank you in advance! -- User:Sannita (WMF) (talk) 15:06, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:Saving y'all a click: enwiki is May 20-22, 2025. --PresN 15:25, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:For a quick look at a bar chart as deployed on Italian Wikipedia see w:it:Kirovo-Čepeck. William Avery (talk) 07:17, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::Takes awhile to load, but good to see it working. CMD (talk) 07:40, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Except for the fact that it pushes the content down when it's within the length of the infobox. It's also way to high. 12.172.251.103 (talk) 11:47, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::::I'm running on the assumption it's configurable enough to not take up the entire page width each use. CMD (talk) 11:50, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
Template:Video game reviews, custom scores blank
Hi! On Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (video game)#Reception, all the review scores made by custom reviewers are blank. I have 11 reviewers that aren't named by the template, so they get custom names. The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template%3AVideo_game_reviews template docs] says it only supports 10 but it's the same if I delete the 11th one. If I insert a dummy score like "rev1score = Test Score 123" it's still blank. I don't know what else to do! Is it possible to show these scores, and to show 11 reviewers? See also my minor citation errors and tell me if there's a better location for those URLs. Thanks! — Smuckola(talk) 21:01, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:For some reason, the template requires the "S" in {{para|rev1Score}} to be upper-cased, unlike nearly all templates. I fixed the parameter names for you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:34, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
::{{reply to|Jonesey95}} You are so good! I see you started a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Video_game_reviews&diff=prev&oldid=1289166116 thread], thanks. — Smuckola(talk) 23:55, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
Issues with the search bar
{{tracked|T393663}}
Hello. For some reason, the mobile search bar seems to be having issues with some pages, where it refuses to show them as a partial title match. It seems completely random which pages are affected, but try typing Kirby and the Forgotten Land or Georgette Heyer into the search bar and you will see what I mean. This issue affects both desktop and mobile. The weirdest part is that not every page is affected, only some. If anybody knows what is causing this, please let me know. Thanks, QuicoleJR (talk) 17:12, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:I've also noticed this. For some reason, it seems that search is currently not working correctly. Lovelyfurball (talk) 17:14, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::It also is an issue on the desktop with the legacy 2010 skin. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:49, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:::me to if you search like macos 10.9-15 the versions wont show up 50.209.62.201 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:“partial” ye more like completely inaccurate i get 2005 page search results when i look up 2025 2601:586:4600:58B0:D874:DC52:810D:1C3C (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::::File:Wikidata dropdown.png ...is it possible that this is somehow related to the search/selection dropdowns on Wikidata being...discolored (in MonoBook)? - The Bushranger One ping only 21:08, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:My suspicion: WP:ITSTHURSDAY. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:I have had difficulty in searching for Second presidency of Donald Trump, Kash Patel, and United States Secretary of Health and Human Services, though I was able to populate the last page just by searching "United States Secretary of Health", a redirect. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:40, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
:Been having this issue today as well. On mobile and desktop. Skyversay (talk) 02:59, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
: Seems to be about half of all articles:
{{collapse top}}
(async function() {
let list = "", random = (await $.get('https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=json&list=random&rnlimit=25&rnnamespace=0')).query.random;
for (let r of random) {
let result = await $.get(`https://en.wikipedia.org/w/rest.php/v1/search/title?q=${ encodeURIComponent(r.title.slice(0, -1))}&limit=100`);
list += `${r.id} ${r.title}: ${result.pages.map(s => s.id).includes(r.id) ? "FOUND" : "MISSING"}\n`;
}
console.log(list);
})()
20711499 Big Daddy G: FOUND
23148143 List of Salyut expeditions: FOUND
63868331 Sinicia gens: MISSING
1517496 Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church (Ottawa): FOUND
61762773 Francesco d'Errico: MISSING
40368221 Dasht-e Ahmad: MISSING
1806748 Doumbi Fakoly: FOUND
57248169 Thomas Kavali: MISSING
14070558 Celtic academy: FOUND
63368386 Árpád Érsek: MISSING
27371437 Antliff: FOUND
10393060 Paul Masnick: FOUND
43161650 Squash at the 2014 Commonwealth Games – Women's doubles: MISSING
20474762 Ponca Reservation: FOUND
17987330 Qiu Fazu: FOUND
15262879 Diocese of Killala: FOUND
7246021 Star-Spangled Banner (flag): MISSING
30371379 Amasa Day House: FOUND
9930252 Iosif Chișinevschi: MISSING
2011429 Wafangdian: FOUND
4302235 Lillias Hamilton: MISSING
67844683 Tachidiidae: MISSING
57345495 Ceraticelus bulbosus: MISSING
40275632 Blacksburg Historic District: MISSING
40898555 Djiboutian art: MISSING
{{collapse bottom}}
:Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 03:17, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:I filed T393663 about this now. Matma Rex talk 03:44, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::The issue seems to have been resolved. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:17, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
Neither id nor anchor worked properly inside table
Please see Template talk:Anchor#neither id nor anchor worked properly in one case. --Altenmann >talk 21:24, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
XTools error
{{tracked|T393520|resolved}}
I've tried logging in again but the error message persists. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 12:22, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:Seems to be a problem on their end. A bug, phab:T393703 is open on this. — xaosflux Talk 13:14, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::See also phab:T393520. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 14:38, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Fixed! My apologies for the disruption. — MusikAnimal talk 19:53, 8 May 2025 (UTC)