Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#HIDDENCAT
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{{Village pump page header|1=Technical|2=The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).
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AI use on ko wiki (WikiVault)
I just stumbled upon this (seems to be an AI-powered gadget - :ko:미디어위키:Gadget-WikiVault.js - for, among other things, writing an article) on Korean Wikipedia: :ko:위키백과:도구/WikiVault. "WikiVault is an AI-powered tool that provides useful features to Wikipedia. The three main features currently provided are as follows: Translation : Using AI to provide more accurate translations. Writing : Provides writing features for quick drafting using AI. Quick Access : Quickly access the features you want from any screen with shortcut keys." They have an wiki meetup/workshop/thon using this today, in fact, advertised on their site notice: :ko:Event:2025년_6월_21일_오프라인_모임. In which they say "At this event , we will hold various editing events using WikiVault, a generative AI tool that has been introduced to the Korean Wikipedia and has received great response." What do we know about this? What do we want to know about this? Particularly considering that the English Wikipedia community seems to be a wee wary of all that AI stuff... Koreans, on the other hand, seem to be forging ahead. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:55, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:Looks like that is primarily a loader for tedbot.toolforge.org, but I can't find any tool documentation on that at toolhub. Do you know where the external tool documentation is? — xaosflux Talk 09:14, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
::@Xaosflux I know nothing except what I stumbled upon. There's more material on ko wiki (discussion pages, etc.). I assume some folks here may be interested in digging into this for whatever reasons. I am quite curious myself if (and why) Korean Wikipedia is taking a different approach from en. A hypothesis I have is that AFAIK they are understaffed (have a very low ratio of editors to population, given their development level; I actually published some research on that). Maybe it's a sign of divergence between big wikis that will limit the use of AIs, and small ones, that will seize upon them to bridge the gap. What consequences will it have is interesting (consider, for example, translations. We don't want AI generated articles, but are we going to ban translations of such content from other Wikipedias...? How to spot it when it's not a taggedf article but a less obviously added part of one? Ex. imagine this. Someone on Korean Wikipedia adds a section to some article using AI. Some time later, that article, or parts of it, are translated to en wiki. The article wasn't started by AI, so it's not flagged as such; if it was in the edit summary, most translators don't check old ones. Should we require some global flagging for any article affected by such a tool? Food for thought). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:35, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I have very similar thoughts. I'll need to do some reading and thinking. Will post more later. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 10:35, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:We (en.wiki) have no control over ko.wiki or its community. I have seen this tool in its translation capacity (and was not aware of the other features), the understanding I was given was that it was better able to handle templates and similar than previous tools during translation. At least in the implementation I saw, the translated page was generated linearly in the same way that your llm of choice will slowly type out a long answer in front of you, and I believe it is some version of Google Gemini. Looking at that event page, it seems the de novo edits made with the tool come with the summary "WikiVault의 도움을 받아 게시". CMD (talk) 09:40, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
::Yep. Here's an example of the page that was signifciantly expanded with this tool: Napster. I've noticed this b/c my student was just about to publisher their (presumably more human-based) translation of it... wonder which one is better? (If anyone cares to compare, her draft is at :ko:사용자:Kiim_Miin_Joo (she did not finish the wikification yet, so the AI content looks better, on surface at least...). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:09, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Well to amend my statement above then, translations also get the summary "WikiVault의 도움을 받아 게시". I am surprised the tool does not attribute the translation, that seems a core element. Frankly a script to fill out {{tl|Copied}} for me would be a minor miracle. CMD (talk) 10:40, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::ko:위키백과토론:도구/WikiVault feedback on tool can be left here. I'll try to thoroughly investigate how this works and do a writeup. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 10:43, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:We have no control over kowiki, but if content from kowiki is translated back here it may contain hallucinations. This isn't a huge deal for us, though, unless we actually see it causing problems on enwiki. @Grapesurgeon, you may want to take note of this. Toadspike [Talk] 10:14, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for tagging. I think it's possibly something we need to widely spread awareness of on enwiki; what we don't want to happen is people on enwiki translating AI stuff over from kowiki and then others getting outraged when that's discovered. Need to get awareness sooner rather than later. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 10:38, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
::@Chipmunkdavis @Piotrus @Toadspike @Xaosflux
::I'm going to read through all their materials (incl. past public discussions, feedback given about tool, etc) and translate the important points into English and make a subpage at WP:KO with all my findings. It may take a day or two. Based on that I think we'll be able to have a better discussion. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 10:44, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
::@Chipmunkdavis @Piotrus @Toadspike @Xaosflux
::I've just completed the translation: Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/WikiVault. This is what I could find based on a quick search of kowiki. If we need more information we can reach out to kowiki admins; I'm sure they're willing to talk to us.
::Just a general note (not to anyone in particular): please be respectful when discussing this topic; I know AI writing can get people heated. There are real humans on kowiki who worked hard to develop something that they view as helpful to their community. Their situation is different than enwiki's; kowiki is imo very short-staffed on editors.
::I'm still formulating my thoughts on the topic, but hopefully these translations are helpful. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 23:20, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Wow. I just published :ko:Cheese pull using the tool; this is a translation of my enwiki article Cheese pull.
:::It was remarkably easy and the tool worked well. The kowiki prose is adequate (closely matches my enwiki prose) and it just used the same sources I used on enwiki but with formatting suitable on kowiki. Honestly impressed. Generation took a few seconds, my manual verification took the longest time, and publishing was near instant.
:::Now I'm cautiously optimistic. For stubs and short articles, think this tool may be really good for translation. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 23:38, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't think anyone answered my earlier question. This gadget is just a shim for an external tool, I'm not seeing any tool documentation, or finding it in the tool directory. — xaosflux Talk 00:36, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I don't know what any of that entails; don't have experience with similar tools. I think the main developers of these gadgets can understand English to a reasonable degree; think you can reach out to them. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 00:46, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::FYI: :ko:위키백과토론:도구/WikiVault#소스_코드 --*Youngjin (talk) 02:28, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
Hi there, I just want to leave some comment on this. Koreans are very positive about using AI as a tool to help translate and write articles. Despite here are issues such as a lack of editors, but even with that in mind, my sense is that AI is becoming a believer in Korean society as a whole. Compare to other communities such as Japanese (where I heard that they are very negative about using AI work) I can share with you that this tool is much better than MediaWiki's existing MediaWiki's “translation tool”, where uses machine translation and has been very well received by the Korean community. I know that many users in the English community have concerns about this, at least I do. If you have any questions, I can answer and share some from the Korean community's perspective. --*Youngjin (talk) 02:20, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
:@*Youngjin How do you deal with AI hallucinations - error it can introduce? In my experience, AI is useful but it produces errors that only an expert can notice. I've used AI to write a few drafts on stuff I am very familiar with, and I caught up some errors that many not as familiar with the topic wouldn't. Effectively, every fact needs to be double checked. How do you handle that? (That said, most of the content written by AI is ok; maybe 90%? Which probably is similar to the error ratio in your average not-GA+ level article... shrug. I don't claim to be an expert on this, I just tested it a bit with few case studies b/c I was curious a while ago). Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here 04:32, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
::@Piotrus Annoyingly there is a ~345kB file it loads from the server that is obfuscated, which contains the actual program. And I don't have access to the backend hosted on toolforge. Maybe {{ping|Xaosflux}} does? If we want something like this (as a toy, to play around with, not to replace human editors) I would probably just use Google instead of relying on a toolforge backend. Annoyingly Google Scholar does not have an API, so we'd need to use something like SerpApi or conventional Google search (although I haven't found a reliable way to force it to prefer academic sources). Or Semantic Scholar API. Polygnotus (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
::AI-assisted translations are visible in the wiki source state, where they can be further edited and deleted by editors before being published. Each individual is still in control of the editing, and they are still responsible for output of using the tool and making sure it fits with Wikipedia. Most users use the AI as a first draft, and then review and improve it. -- *Youngjin (talk) 10:51, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
:@*Youngjin Hello, thank you for responding to questions. I'm wondering, why is it that any registered user is allowed to access the tool, without regard to trust? I feel like the minimum status for the tool should be :ko:백:자동인증 (equivalent to enwiki's WP:AUTOCONFIRMED). Reason is it's hard to trust brand new accounts, and we're asking them something that requires trust (human verification of AI writing). grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 15:31, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
::If I may step in to respond on behalf of Youngjin, thank you for the thoughtful question. It’s a fair concern, but it’s important to understand the specific context of the Korean Wikipedia. Like many other language editions, the Korean Wikipedia is facing a decline in active editors. More critically, we are in urgent need of new contributors. We often see newcomers, including participants at offline events, who are eager to contribute through translation but have little prior editing experience. Unfortunately, the built-in translation tools provided by MediaWiki are not of sufficient quality for Korean, making that path very difficult for them. In one recent case, a brand-new user who had never edited Wikipedia before wanted to help by translating at an offline meetup. Thanks to WikiVault’s support for CAPTCHA verification, the technical barrier wasn’t an issue, and with some guidance, they were able to make constructive contributions. Imposing a restriction like requiring autoconfirmed status would have prevented this user from participating entirely. I understand why this concern arises from the perspective of the English Wikipedia, where the user base and risks might be very different. But in the Korean Wikipedia context, reducing friction for newcomers, especially those with good intentions, is a deliberate and necessary choice. I hope this helps clarify our reasoning. --ted (talk) 00:28, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for the reply. I am mindful of the kowiki's small userbase and often poor quality of major topics; I very regularly look at it for my own writing. I'm curious to see how trust, vandalism, and this tool will interact with each other. I imagine it can be hard to disentangle/automatically detect poor use of the tool. The AI will probably produce good prose; the issue is detecting bad ideas, which is hard to do for humans, deterministic programs, and AI. Anyway I'll be following developments on this tool with interest. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:25, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for raising this important question. I fully agree that while AI can be helpful, it still requires careful oversight, especially when it comes to factual accuracy and hallucination risks. If you're curious about how we've addressed these issues in the WikiVault project, please refer to the following points:
- Regarding AI hallucinations, we recognize that this is an inherent limitation of all neural machine translation systems—including the Google Translate feature already built into MediaWiki. For more details on our stance and mitigation strategies (e.g., adjusting temperature settings via the UI to reduce randomness), please refer to this discussion section: :ko:위키백과토론:도구/WikiVault#비판과 견해 (Criticism and Perspective). It outlines the rationale behind our approach and also includes our responses to related concerns raised by the community.
- On backend code and transparency, the core server-side logic is publicly available via a GitHub repository I maintain: [https://github.com/ykhwong/wikivault], which is also linked on :ko:위키백과:도구/WikiVault#개발. Most AI-related processes run on the backend, and the frontend is minimal. All code, including the frontend, is hosted on Wikimedia Cloud Services, ensuring that it operates within a transparent, community-governed infrastructure. As mentioned on :ko:위키백과토론:도구/WikiVault#소스 코드, we're preparing for full code disclosure not only by improving documentation, but also by cleaning up and reorganizing parts of the codebase. Since we use webpack, the frontend code isn’t easily human-readable, but I’d be happy to share access if you're interested in reviewing it.
- AI is not intended to replace human editors. All articles created through WikiVault are [https://ko.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&hideWikibase=1&tagfilter=wikivault&limit=50&days=7&title=%ED%8A%B9%EC%88%98%3A%EC%B5%9C%EA%B7%BC%EB%B0%94%EB%80%9C&urlversion=2 tagged with the wikivault label] and categorized under :ko:분류:번역이 검토되지 않은 문서 (WikiVault), so they remain visible for review by other contributors. This allows the community to identify and correct potential issues, including hallucinations or translation errors.
I appreciate your thoughtful feedback and interest. If you have any further questions or suggestions, I’d be glad to continue the discussion. --ted (talk) 00:37, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
The tool was developed just for kowiki users. Enwiki uesrs can't affect kowiki's decision, because they are separate projects. On the other hand, the tool can't affect the enwiki. It depends on enwiki's decision whether you will use AI-based tools or not. If you have any questions or opinions about the WikiVault tool, I recommend visiting kowiki's village pump. Motoko C. K. (talk) 12:53, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:It does have an impact on enwiki. Articles from the Korean Wikipedia are sometimes translated and put on the English Wikipedia. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 13:01, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:: Old articles created before AI tools was developed can also have some wrong information. That issue you mentioned is not caused by the AI-powered tool. Checking if the translated articles from kowiki have errors is Enwiki's responsibility, not Kowiki's. My above comment means Enwiki cannot influence Kowiki's consensus about the AI-powered tool.Motoko C. K. (talk) 13:15, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I agree with most of what you just said. But you're still not quite right on this: this still does have an impact on the English Wikipedia. AI-generated writing may come over to us.
:::Yes, humans will be in the loop to monitor the writing. But regardless a significant portion of that writing will be AI-generated. So it does impact us; the impact may be good or bad, but it is impact regardless.
:::The point about whether enwiki can influence kowiki policy I did not comment on; I have separate opinions on that. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 13:34, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: Sure. Korean Wikipedia users are positive about the tool, because it is very useful. Korean users agree that human users take final responsibility for using the AI-tool, and trustworthy users should use the tool. As each wiki has different backgrounds, perspectives on AI-based tools may differ. Motoko C. K. (talk) 14:35, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I agree with all that. To be clear, I expressed cautious optimism about the tool in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#c-Grapesurgeon-20250621233800-Grapesurgeon-20250621232000 this comment]; I'm just saying that I think enwiki has a reason to care about this. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 14:40, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::To add to this, while enwiki can't influence kowiki policy, we can have our own policies regarding translated articles from kowiki – for instance, by having restriction on translating articles that have been generated with WikiVault. The difference in backgrounds between wikis very much means that what is acceptable on kowiki might not be acceptable on enwiki. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 14:54, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Enwiki can surely make its own policy about articles created by the tool. But enwiki users have to consider kowiki users can use other AI apps such as ChatGPT, and Gemini without any tags or enwiki users can use the apps when they translate articles from kowiki. It is impossible to prevent from using AI tools. Motoko C. K. (talk) 15:12, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::To clarify, I am not talking about preventing AI use entirely (which is impossible), but regulating it in one case where its used is clearly established. I am less worried about AI use for translation, as it is much more accurate and doesn't generate new content. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 15:20, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Agreed with Chaotic Enby. I'm more worried about the novel content generation part of WikiVault. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 15:29, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::WikiVault takes a careful approach to content generation by requiring that every sentence be backed by an external source. Once the content is generated, it must go through a user verification step before it can be published. This process is built on Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG), aiming to use source-based information as faithfully as possible. There may be rare cases where the output resembles more creative or novel-like writing. The system was designed with that possibility in mind, and users have the authority to delete such content if they choose. Also, setting the Temperature to 0 in the UI can help reduce the likelihood of such output. --ted (talk) 00:58, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::RAG is reassuring, but we can't really guarantee that the sources are reliable or correctly used, or that all content is thoroughly checked by users. With novel technologies like that, an additional verification step here on enwiki does make sense. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:06, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::You're absolutely right to highlight the importance of verification. To clarify, the writing feature is not intended to generate full articles automatically. Its main purpose is to assist with drafting, providing a starting point for human editors, and it deliberately avoids producing excessive or unsolicited content. This design also takes into account that not all users may have the time or capacity to review long, fully generated texts in detail. For instance, prompts are designed to prevent the addition of new sections unless explicitly requested by the user. As for sources, users have full control over which ones are included. Each citation can be accepted or rejected using simple + and – buttons, allowing users to decide what stays in the draft. While it's technically possible to filter out content based on a source list of unreliable sites, assuming such a list is defined somewhere, we have chosen to leave that control entirely in the hands of the user. --ted (talk) 01:27, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
While fully operational, the WikiVault tool continues to receive updates and enhancements. For now, its use is focused exclusively on the Korean Wikipedia, where it is operating under the full oversight and control of the local community. Currently, about 99% of the tool’s usage involves translation tasks. While the tool also offers a drafting function for generating new content, this feature is rarely used, as turning drafts into proper Wikipedia articles remains a complex and challenging process. As many of you know, creating a new article on Wikipedia is no simple task. I’ve noticed continued concerns raised on the English Wikipedia, and I find this somewhat unfortunate. No one has proposed deploying this tool on the English Wikipedia, and we have consistently emphasized that its current implementation is intended solely for use on the Korean Wikipedia. There may be room in the future to adapt the tool in ways that better suit the needs and policies of the English Wikipedia. However, at this time, the priority remains on supporting and refining its use within the Korean Wikipedia context. I hope this is understood and respected. --ted (talk) 00:31, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:If 99% of the tool's usage is translation, I'm pretty happy with that; I think that part of the tool is safest. I don't think people here are necessarily immediately concerned about the tool being used on enwiki, they're more concerned about the possibility of poor AI content on the kowiki being brought over to enwiki. We've discussed those concerns already though.
:For others reading, I'm considering publicizing the existence of this tool on enwiki, so that enwiki users are aware that, if they bring writing over from kowiki, they may be translating AI-generated (but ideally human-vetted) content. There is still strong anti-AI sentiment on enwiki, so it's important that we tell everyone early, so that nobody is surprised and gets angry/throws accusations around when they learn about it later. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:31, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::@Grapesurgeon publicizing in what way? A notification on the Wikiproject Korea talkpage would be fine. Polygnotus (talk) 03:32, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Pretty much that, but also maybe on the main WikiProject Korea page as well. Maybe worth posting around on other boards as well, not sure. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::The talkpages of WP:WPAI, WP:AICLEAN, Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea seem logical. Polygnotus (talk) 03:38, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::That does make sense – I don't think we'd need duplicate notifications on the same project's main page and talk page. WP:WPAI seems only tangentially relevant (as it is about writing articles on the topic of AI, not checking AI-generated writing), but WP:AICLEAN is likely more relevant. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 03:57, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:: I wonder if there has been any discussion about AI-generated content created through Google Translate, as provided by MediaWiki, being introduced into the English Wikipedia. Since Google Translate is also AI-based, its output should be considered AI-generated content. The translation quality and accuracy of this tool are so poor that it is virtually unusable on the Korean Wikipedia, where it has led to numerous complaints. I believe that how the person uses the tool is critical, and it is also important whether the use of the tool is being properly regulated. --ted (talk) 08:07, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::To clarify, there is in general less opposition to AI-translated content than to AI-generated content, although I agree that Google Translate is considered a poor standard in terms of translation. However, it isn't provided by MediaWiki (which will very rarely rely on non-open source tools anyway), and Wikipedia:Content translation tool in fact discourages unedited AI translation. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 08:15, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you for the clarification. Just to be more precise, I was referring specifically to the translation feature used on Wikipedia itself, which offers Google Translate as one of the available translation options. I appreciate your response. --ted (talk) 08:18, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thanks a lot! Just checked, surprised to learn that it is actually provided. Not ideal in my opinion, especially since it kind of goes against the tool's own guideline (at least on en.wiki). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:00, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::@Chaotic Enby But near the top it says {{tq|On the English Wikipedia this tool is limited to extended confirmed editors, and the machine translation component is disabled for all users (see WP:CXT).}} and then if you read Wikipedia:Content_translation_tool#Why_machine_translation_is_disabled_in_content_translation... or is there a different translation thingy I am unaware of? Polygnotus (talk) 10:06, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::That's what I also thought, although I checked [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/GCXS/browse/master/config/Google.yaml the Phab config file] which seemed to indicate Google Translate was active on en.wiki, so I ended up trusting what was said above. Although it makes sense that it can be disabled on-wiki without affecting the config file. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
"United States" in search box
The WP article United States (the most-read country article in English Wikipedia) used to come up in every way possible in the search box after typing "United", "US", or just simply "U". Suddenly the article title isn't called up at all as a search option. This is a significant change, and some parties at English Wikipedia seem to have made the decision to exclude "United States" as a search result. Mason.Jones (talk) 21:11, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
:thumbWorks fine for me- "United States" appears after typing "Unit" or "UN or "US". Perhaps I am not understanding the problem.Moxy🍁 21:21, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ec}} Or maybe one could assume good faith and hypothesize that something is broken, or a database needs to be refreshed? In any event, I can reproduce the problem. If I type "United" (without quote marks), "Unit", or even "United State", in the search box in Vector 2022, United States is not one of the ten results displayed. It is the same whether I am logged out or logged in. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:23, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::Not true, Mox. As Jonesey95 said, the article "United States" doesn't come up after typing any permutation of U, Un, Uni, Unit, etc. The article used to be called up immediately as the first choice for any phrase coming anywhere close (even "U"). Right now, you won't get "United States" as an article in any way, shape, or form. I smell (good faith) a bug or (bad faith) a rat. Mason.Jones (talk) 21:59, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Please default to good faith. Izno (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
:::thumbJesus wow! Works on my phone in mobile view as well.Moxy🍁 22:42, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::::@Mox: Because you're typing "US" (with two caps), not "Us", "Unit", or even "United". Before a few days ago, all of those automatically called up "United States" first. Now you get "United Kingdom", "United Arab Emirates", "U.S. state", "United States Navy", and several others. Mason.Jones (talk) 23:23, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Will do. Currently, only if you type in "Usa" will you will get the article "United States". However, "USA" is not the article's title, and for the last 20 years, the article was easily, and automatically, called up using its Wikipedia name.
:When I type "Unit" the United Kingdom comes up as the first result, which is clearly correct. DuncanHill (talk) 22:32, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::For the last 20 years, "United States" would be the first of ten, followed by "United Kingdom." Now it isn't even among the top 10; it's simply disappeared. Mason.Jones (talk) 23:00, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
:I suspect that you all have different settings at {{myprefs|Search|Search completion}}. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:43, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::@Redrose64: My setting is "Default", which has always called up the most popular choice for "U", "Unit", etc.—United States. Now, suddenly, this article isn't even in the top 10 and isn't referenced at all? That's new, and surely a bug. Mason.Jones (talk) 23:08, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
:::We all appear to be getting the same results, so I don't know why Redrose64 would suspect a preferences difference. I also have "Default" selected. When I type "US", I get United States as the first suggestion, but anything else doesn't show it. It's strange. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:30, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::::@Jonesey95: Exactly: nothing else works except "US" (two caps). It's also a sudden development in the English Wikipedia search box after 20 years. Mason.Jones (talk) 23:41, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
::It's definitely not caused by different preferences; I actually tried all those autocomplete profiles. Compare these autocomplete API responses in an incognito window:
::* "United Sta": [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=opensearch&format=json&formatversion=2&search=United%20Stat&namespace=0&limit=50]
::* "United Kin": [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=opensearch&format=json&formatversion=2&search=United%20Kin&namespace=0&limit=50] — DVRTed (Talk) 00:15, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
:For me, typing “Un” in the search box gave United States as one of the autocompleted results. I think it was the 5th result or something like that. 2001:8003:B15F:8000:8860:131D:AE7B:4EC5 (talk) 11:54, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
Not sure why people are flipping out about this so much. This isn't even the first time this has happened in recent months -- see wikitech:Incidents/2025-05-09 Missing autocomplete indices and phab:T393663 (and I'll note that people jumped to the same conclusions that time.)Jay8g [
:{{tracked|T398273}}
:This is now phab:T398273. Jay8g [
::I don't see anyone flipping out. This is VPT, after all, and nobody is suggesting a new Wikimedia feature or proposing to use AI. Thanks for reporting this on Phabricator. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:09, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
:::It only comes up for me if I type the full exact title (including capitalization) of the article or a redirect. Such a direct match doesn't rely on the autocomplete feature. Moxy may be hitting a different server or something where it works. {{ping|Mason.Jones}} Don't claim it's not true when people say "works for me". Things can work differently for different people for many reasons. Moxy explicitly said it worked for him. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:16, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Duly noted about Moxy, but many new readers searching for the article (and that's not Mox, who is a regular) would type in "Un...i...t..." first. That won't get you to the article until you enter the entire name; you must use the initialisms "US" (full caps) or "USA", but neither is the title of the article. Mason.Jones (talk) 16:09, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::See phab:T398273#10965348: Apparently, special:diff/1296923565 this edit caused the page to be removed from the search index; and even after reverting the redirect, it ended up missing out on some data that {{tquote|only comes once a week.}} Seems like it'll fix itself eventually. — DVRTed (Talk) 00:38, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::It works for me now. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:02, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::So? Why would it come up first in such searches? Why wouldn't United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, United Airlines,etc come up before United States? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:47, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::"United St" brought up an autocomplete list that included articles such as United States Navy but not United States; it was necessary to type "United States" in full to reach that article. That didn't make sense. NebY (talk) 15:02, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Now, that does seem like a problem. A term that includes United States should not pop up before United States itself. But I still don't see the problem with the UK or UAE popping up first. Or why anyone would be upset that the string "Unit" doesn't bring up "United States" first. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 17:15, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::See :mw:Help:CirrusSearch#Search suggestions. United States has reasons to be suggested. Wikipedia:Wikipedia records#Links says: "Article linked to by most other articles in their own source text (not via templates) United States 354,529 links". PrimeHunter (talk) 21:31, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
Template:Talk quote inline and font size
On my system the serif font used in {{temp|talk quote inline}} is a little smaller than the surrounding sans-serif font making it a little harder to read. Is there something I can add to my personal css to increase the font size of just the text using that template by ~1-2 points? Thryduulf (talk) 00:53, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:Template:Talk quote inline/styles.css doesn't change the font size, though of course the font itself may have a slightly smaller appearance for the same font size. However you may want to check if you have any personal customizations making it smaller. The relevant classes from the style file are
:Looking at it using Inspect Element, {{tq|this text}} and the surrounding both show up as 14px for me, although the serif font does appear to be very slightly smaller visually. Is it the same on your system? Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:09, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::I can't spot a point size amid all the information that Firefox's "inspect" option gives me but user:Thryduulf/common.css contains nothing related to text size that I can see so I have no reason to believe it is different.
::{{tpq|you can try defining style rules to make the font size a bit bigger.}} This is what I'm asking for help to do. Thryduulf (talk) 08:17, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Maybe something like:
.inline-quote-talk, .inline-quote-talk-italic
{
font-size: 110%;
}
Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 08:59, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::I think that has worked, thank you Thryduulf (talk) 09:05, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::File:M versus em.svg and on the right in Calisto, inside squares of one em on each side]] {{replyto|Thryduulf}} This is one of those "different users have different experiences for what is apparently the same situation" things. There are several factors that can affect this, my strongest suspicion is that you have a font installed that others do not, or vice versa. Consider the rule
font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif;
color: #008560;
quotes: none;
} The first declaration here says, essentially, "If the Georgia font is installed, use that; else if the DejaVu Serif font is installed, use that; otherwise, use the browser's default serif font." This in turn depends upon what the browser's default serif font has been set as. For me, it's Times New Roman. Then we have to consider that for two given fonts, the physical height of their glyphs might not be the same - see diagram at the start of this post. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:52, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::I do have Georgia but probably only from a few days ago. I found a load of font files on an old backup, and installed them, before that I think I'd have been using DejaVu Serif which would explain why it's bugging now more than it used to. Thryduulf (talk) 13:08, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I wasn't sure how familiar you were with CSS syntax, so just started with an initial pointer. Glad to see you've adjusted matters to your liking. isaacl (talk) 15:45, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:The three fonts used in Template:Talk quote inline really have very different metrics, and look very different. Here's how they appear on my computer (screenshots from Template:Talk quote inline#Examples): Georgia, DejaVu Serif, Times New Roman (this is the likely fallback for 'serif').
:This is actually a common problem, and CSS has a partial solution for it, [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/font-size-adjust font-size-adjust]. The internet says that the x-height/body height ratio of Arial (the default body text font) is 0.519, so we could apply font-size-adjust: 0.519;
on the talk quote template to increase/decrease its font-size depending on the font, so that the x-height of letters will better match the surrounding text. Here's how it looks for me with that tweak: Georgia, DejaVu Serif, Times New Roman. It's not perfect (probably because the heights inside the fonts differ, as Redrose64 says), but it is a lot better than before.
:Worth adding? Matma Rex talk 16:27, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::As English Wikipedia just uses the "sans-serif" keyword for the body text font family, I don't think we should adjust the inline quote font to match one specific sans serif font. The font that's actually used differs based on browser/OS and what the reader may have configured in their browser. isaacl (talk) 16:48, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::You're right, but despite that, it still seems like it would be an improvement to me.
:::There is also a font-size-adjust: from-font;
which is supposed to avoid this problem, and choose the value automatically, but I can't get it to work. Matma Rex talk 17:17, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::If the user has configured a sans-serif font with an x-height ratio smaller than the serif font, for example, then scaling it up based on the Arial x-height ratio would be the wrong direction.
::::I was thinking that it would make sense for the browser to adjust the font size based on the first typeface specified in the font-family property, to best match the design intent. But of course if the primary font isn't available, the font metrics aren't readily available either, so I don't think
:::::I think I figured out how from-font
is supposed to be used in this case: you put it on a parent element, where it computes to the x-height/body height ratio of that element's font (and has no visible effect), and then that same ratio is inherited by nested elements, which can be set to a different font, and that font's size will be adjusted to match the x-height of the parent's font. So we'd add a
around the existing markup in the template, and that should make the apparent font size more consistent regardless of which fallback font is available to the user. Matma Rex talk 22:43, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::My understanding of [https://drafts.csswg.org/css-fonts-5/#valdef-font-size-adjust-from-font the description of from-font from the draft specification] is that it picks up the metrics from the first available font, which is specified in the [https://drafts.csswg.org/css-fonts-4/#first-available-font previous draft spec] to be the first font that doesn't exclude the space character. I think there's also an implicit assumption that the font is also available. So I think the child element in your proposed example would still pick up the font metric from the font it's actually using, as it would inherit the
:::::::Following the links to the spec about inheritance [https://www.w3.org/TR/css-cascade/#inheritance] it says "the inherited value of a property on an element is the computed value". And the font-size-adjust spec [https://drafts.csswg.org/css-fonts-5/#font-size-adjust-prop] says that from-font "computes to the
:::::::
class="wikitable"
!Without |Default font, Georgia, DejaVu Serif, Times New Roman |
With font-size-adjust: from-font;
|Default font, Georgia, DejaVu Serif, Times New Roman |
---|
:::::::In the second row, the size of the Georgia and Times New Roman fonts is clearly increased, and all the text is closer together in apparent size: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F63225366. Matma Rex talk 21:21, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I would have thought that the computed value would still be from-font, and the used value computed later, but when inspecting your test with my Chromium-based browser, it does seem to be inheriting the numeric value. isaacl (talk) 22:01, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::It's taken me some searching, but the only mentions of from-font
that I can find in current W3C docs (not editors' drafts) are:
:::::::::*[https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-decor-4/ CSS Text Decoration Module Level 4] - W3C Working Draft, 4 May 2022
:::::::::*[https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/ CSS Fonts Module Level 5] - W3C Working Draft, 6 February 2024
:::::::::CSS Fonts Module Level 5 is very scanty; there are lots of pink placeholder boxes. Clearly it relies on cross-checking with [https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-4/ CSS Fonts Module Level 4] - W3C Working Draft, 1 February 2024. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:45, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
::Suggested change for the template: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Talk_quote_inline/sandbox&diff=1299286862&oldid=1172962681] Matma Rex talk 14:26, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I added a testcase to the testcases page to show the difference with quote placed inline with surrounding text. For the particular fonts being used by default for my browser, to my eyes, the current, non-adjusted size provides a better match for perceived size. I think this is due to the negative space within letters such as o, b, d, and u. But of course, this is going to vary based on the actual fonts used for any given reader. isaacl (talk) 17:29, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Upon reflection, I think the
How to remove "Reply" link but keep signature and date?
Hello, so this is the 1st part of my comment.
148.252.132.58 (talk) 12:24, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:Don't split your comment into two entries. Do it all in one go. - Roxy the dog 13:18, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::They did it on purpose. 2001:8003:B15F:8000:EC52:8F75:6B38:5810 (talk) 12:49, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
So just above is the first part of my comment that I have written further into the past and nobody has yet answered to it and now right here I am adding the 2nd part of my comment. I'd like to keep the signature and date after the 1st part of my comment (to indicate that this 1st part was written further into the past) but remove the associated auto-generated "Reply" button (because I want people to reply below the second part of my comment).
What is the best way to avoid that 1st "Reply" button being auto-generated but keep that 1st signature and date please?
148.252.132.58 (talk) 12:45, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:Don't split your comment into two entries. Do it all in one go. - Roxy the dog 13:17, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you but this is the point: I want to split my comment into 2 entries, one entry written further into the past and one entry that adds content to it and have a signature and date for each entry but a reply button only at the end of the second entry. 148.252.132.58 (talk) 13:28, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::That is not possible. You can just edit your comment provided no one has replied to it. Nardog (talk) 13:35, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Ok thank you. It is an unsatisfying answer though. I will just find a way to slightly modify the signature and date format to avoid the "Reply" button being auto-generated, not a perfect solution but that's ok, thank you for your answer anyway, appreciated :) 148.252.132.58 (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::That would not be acceptable. Signatures in the consistent format tell humans and software where each comment ends, who wrote it, and where the next begins. Nardog (talk) 13:53, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::But in that instance the software really does not need to know and it is useless for the software to know (except if the software was clever & graceful enough to handle the case as intended i.e. to not auto-generate a "Reply" button for the 1st part of the comment if the human writer wishes that it does not) that the comment is split into 2 different temporal parts, it is just the humans who need to know that, so the software can be ignored, it will just see the 2 parts comment as one unsplit comment and this is absolutely fine for both software and humans so all is good and well thank you :) 148.252.132.58 (talk) 14:04, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::A corrupt signature is worse than no signature. Just sign once. Nardog (talk) 14:21, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I guess I see your point/solution: just putting a date without signature at the end of the 1st part of the comment. But just putting a date without signature would look strange and potentially confusing. I totally see & accept your point that the signature should not be corrupted and confusing for either software and humans. I will see what acceptable workaround I can come up with if ever at all I can find an acceptable workaround :) TTYL :) 148.252.132.58 (talk) 14:42, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::A comment can consist of any number of paragraphs, so I don't see how it would look strange or confusing to anybody. Nardog (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::The main goal is to have something which looks and behaves as exactly as possible as a signature and date but which does not trigger the auto-generation of a "Reply" button, if you have a working solution that achieves something similar to the intented goal please let me know and show me :)
::::::::::I have found a solution that I quite like:
:::::::::::This is the 1st part of my comment. No reply button is auto-generated at the end of it.
:::::::::::148.252.132.58 (talk) 12:24, 5 July 2025 (UTC⁠)
:::::::::::This is the 2nd part of my comment. A reply button is auto-generated at the end of it.
:::::::::::148.252.132.58 (talk) 12:45, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::As you can see in the code, it uses a word joiner character in the "(UTC)" string, so as a result for humans the date looks exactly like a date string but the Wikipedia software does not interpret it as a date, which is perfectly fine as it does not need to, and as a result does not auto-generate a "Reply" button. The signature part stays as is, it is just the date part which is modified to avoid the Wikipedia software interpreting it as a date . So I am satisfied with that solution and hopefully you are too?! :)
::::::::::PS: the 2 dates are of a different color, I could remedy that but I am not that perfectionist and it is a nice way to distinguish between the non-interpreted date and the interpreted one so I am ok with that, no problem with that on my side.
::::::::::148.252.132.58 (talk) 15:39, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
I don't think it's a good idea to try to make your first timestamp look just like a signature as it will run counter to the expectations of readers who expect to see the reply link. Plus it won't hinder anyone from inserting a reply without using the reply link. As the convention is not to add replies within someone's comment, removing the first signature entirely is the best way to avoid someone replying to the first section. isaacl (talk) 15:49, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:I feel like people usually split their comment into multiple parts like that when they want others to reply to each part separately. I worry that if you do it and expect people not to reply to each part separately, you will have an unpleasant time participating in discussions. That said, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:DiscussionTools/Magic_words_and_markup documents some ways to control which comments in discussions get reply buttons and which don't. Matma Rex talk 15:59, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::It sounds quite interesting! Let me read your link and then I will come back to you! :)
::
:::It still doesnb't stop people replying where they think they should, instead of where you thinbk they should, - Roxy the dog 19:19, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::It's absolutely fine with me :) As previously mentioned one of my intended goals with this is to just express a preference for and give guidance to the potential contributor to reply at the end of the 2nd part of the comment but the contributor is of course indeed absolutely free to not follow that preference and guidance if xe doesn't want to! Thank you for giving me an illustrated opportunity to make that clear, appreciated :) 148.252.132.58 (talk) 19:41, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::So, now that I am adding the second part of my comment here, as indicated in the link you sent me, I have applied the
tag to the signature of the 1st part of my comment just above and it looks it is working i.e. no "Reply" button being generated! Thank you so much, it is exactly something like that that I was looking for! :))) It gives exactly the same result (including dates of different colors) as my "hack" (i.e. inserting a word joiner character in the date) but it is obviously semantically and technically exactly the right way to do it, thank you so much for that! :)))
::148.252.132.58 (talk) 17:20, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:Users can insert a reply anywhere without a "Reply" button that's for sure. Avoiding a "Reply" button being auto-generated is just a way to signal that it is prefered that the reply be given at the end of the second part of the comment. The main goal here as previously mentioned is to clearly show that a first part of a comment was written at the date indicated and then later on a second part was added. The valid question is why doing that rather than just mix the 2 parts together and put a single date (of one's choice) at the end? Sometimes I do the latter when for example there is very little time that has passed between the 2 comment parts. But if a significant amount of time has passed and/or quite a significant amount of content has been changed or added then it is a way to clearly show people who have already read the 1st comment part that a second important part was added and that it should be read as well. And for the people who didn't read the 1st part of the comment before, it is a way for the writer to indicate that for example a significant amount of thinking has taken place between the 1st part and second part and/or to clearly state that the writer has changed his mind on a few things during the time interval and/or want to emphasize some points following some new research, etc... 148.252.132.58 (talk) 16:25, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::Those who track watchlist changes will see the new update. If you want others to know that you've changed your mind, it's better to say so within your comment, rather than rely on timestamps that many readers won't examine closely. isaacl (talk) 16:39, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for your kind & interesting answer :) That's great for the users who track watchlist but obviously not everybody does that. Moreover even with tracklist, I want the update to be shown as having been made explicit by myself. There would be indeed plenty of various ways other than signature and date put at the end of the comment first part to explicitly express that after having written the first part of my comment and after a certain period of reflexion after that I changed my mind and hence written a second part, etc..., etc... but just putting a signature and date without a reply button at the end of the 1st part of my comment is just so much simpler, more straightforward and more explicit to express all that. A semantical & technical solution (using the
tag) has very expertly and kindly been given to me (cf. a bit above as you have probably already seen) to be able to do just that so I will be using it but if I see that it confuses users etc... I will obviously stop doing it but I honestly don't think it will confuse readers but at the opposite make things clearer :) To you and all people reading this, I don't think it will ever happen but in the rare cases I use this and it confuses you please let me know which specific instance(s) and I will then reconsider, thank you! :))) 148.252.132.58 (talk) 18:03, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Just to show I am very considerate in my use of the prevention of the auto-generation of the "Reply" button: Here is an example of a second part of a comment but in this case I want people to still be easily able to reply to the 1st part of the comment above i.e. with "Reply" button auto-generated because the second part of the comment I want to write (below) has very litte to do with the 1st part of the comment:
:::Actually for real, I changed my mind about what I wanted to write in the present second part of my commment but that's fine, I will leave this present text here just to show that in some cases I prefer people to not reply at the end of the 1st part of my comment but sometimes I don't mind like for the 1st part of my comment above which has also a "Reply" button that I have chosen not to remove.
:::Anyway thank you everybody for your very kind and very useful various contributions to that thread, very helpful in many ways, specially as my problem is now gracefully solved (i.e. with the purpuseful
tag) as you can see a few comments above :)))
:::Note: I will carry on for a little while to make minor edits in my previous comments to correct typos, improve presentation, etc...
:::Thank you again everybody, have a nice day/night! :)))
:::148.252.132.58 (talk) 18:47, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Remember not to alter posts you have made that people have commented on. that is considered very bad form. - Roxy the dog 19:21, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes absolutely of course, as mentioned these minor edits are just to correct typos, improve presentation, etc... nothing that would modify the semantic in any meaningful way. I would just add a comment if I needed to amend what I wanted to say after a user has commented on it. 148.252.132.58 (talk) 19:53, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::You could open an account too, a far more collegiate way to do things around here. Many editors, myself included, take far less account of comments made by IP editors such as yourself. Good luck. - Roxy the dog 20:14, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Thank you for your suggestion but I prefer using an IP as I prefer being as free as possible of any account as a matter of personal preference and if/when possible. I greatly appreciate and admire the fact that Wikipedia carries on allowing IPs to edit despite all the challenges that it creates. I don't think I would make as many (positive (of course!)) contributions if I had to log/be into an account each time. Anyway, thank you for everything and good luck to you too! Note: talking about IP, mine has changed before I made this edit but it is still "me" (I am not sure exactly how I would be able to easily prove it though but that's an entirely other debate)! Cheers! 148.252.132.231 (talk) 20:55, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::We have the WP:PREVIEW feature for a reason. Please use it, and stop amending your posts ten times each. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:48, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Sorry about that, I just made a couple of typo corrections, grammar corrections/improvements, formatting corrections/improvements including using some tags to display the mentioned HTML code properly, I think it's way fewer than ten amendments per comment haha! :) Sorry I tend to treat any kind of text as programming code and tend to overcorrect/overimprove my text quite a bit, a quirk of mine I'm sorry. I use indeed the WP:PREVIEW as much as possible but sometimes I only spot more corrections/improvements to do afterwards. I will limit the number of my corrections/improvements to the minimum. Talking about improvements thank you so much for making some formatting improvements on my own comments, really very appreciated :) Have a nice day/night! :) 148.252.132.231 (talk) 22:33, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
Help logging in
{{resolved|Information provided. — xaosflux Talk 22:23, 6 July 2025 (UTC)}}
I am embarrassed to say that I cannot log into my main account and I'm not sure what to do.
I have been out of town for about a week visiting relatives. While there, I used a (new to me) laptop and successfully logged in. I returned yesterday, intended to log into my main account Sphilbrick, but accidentally logged into SPhilbrick. I realized this when I was helping out at CopyPatrol and noticed my recent closed cases were showing up under SPhilbrick rather than Sphilbrick.
After logging out I tried logging back in to Sphilbrick, but I received an incorrect password warning. I looked up my password, and tried again several times, failing each time.
I expected to see a message letting me reset my password but it does not appear. There is a link to a page labeled "Help with logging in" but no option for "Forgot your password?"
I decided to give up and try again today. I failed. I thought I had a potential solution when I double checked my laptop and noticed I was still logged in. It was my recollection that one could be logged into more than one device at the same time but perhaps that had changed so I logged out of the laptop. I did notice if I tried to log back in there, it did show both "help with logging in" and "forgot your password?", but when I tried logging into my desktop it still claims the password is wrong and doesn't give me the option to reset my password.
My passwords are saved in Google Chrome and I knew how to look to see the password on the chance that I had changed it and forgotten but when I checked it was the password I expected.
I'm not sure what to do next — any thoughts? Sphilbrick alt (talk) 12:26, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
:{{re|Sphilbrick alt}} Did you try using the "Forgot your password?" link when it appeared on the laptop? If that doesn’t work, you can also try accessing the password reset form directly here Special:PasswordReset. Your account needs to have a confirmed email address set for that to work. And yes, you can stay logged into the same account on multiple devices. — DVRTed (Talk) 12:54, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the link, I think that worked.S Philbrick(Talk) 12:59, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
Talkback template
Can some template wizard please help fix the horrible {{tl|talkback}} template? It assumes the only messages you can leave someone are on someone's talkpage, which is obviously untrue. It doesn't understand interwiki prefixes like :meta:.
It is very annoying. I want to be able to just do
Which should then link to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_Research_Best_Practices_Around_Privacy_Whitepaper
Editrequests are not really suited for this, they are more for change x to y changes.
Can't we just simplify the entire thing to something like:
{{collapse top|1=example code}}
|{{#if:{{{short|}}}
| File:Nuvola apps edu languages.svg Hello. You have a new message waiting for you.
|{{umbox
| image = Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
| imagelink = {{{1}}}|You have new messages
| text = Hello, {{#titleparts:{{PAGENAME}}|1}}. You have new messages at {{{1}}}.
}}
}}
|ERROR: Please enter a link parameter when using this template - thus {{Tlx|Talkback|}}.
}}
{{collapse bottom}}
It only needs to surround the first parameter with [[ and ]]
Thanks, Polygnotus (talk) 23:41, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
:A good place to start a conversation about any template is at the template's talk page, e.g. Template talk:Talkback. You appear to be correct that the template is unable to link to other WMF sites. If you have suggested code that supports what you want to do, you could either modify the template's sandbox page or make a new template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:30, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
::@Jonesey95 True, but in my experience posting on template talkpages is like seducing a wall. Hence me posting here so that more people can see it and hopefully one of them if willing to fix it. My suggested code is changing all that complicated stuff to: "You have new messages at [[{{{1}}}]]" so I can't easily format that in the change x to y format. Polygnotus (talk) 01:35, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
:::The thing to do is to start the discussion on the template's talk page, and then post here with a notice drawing attention to that discussion. Templates such as {{tlx|fyi}} and {{tlxs|please see}} are available for this. Also, unless extremely simple, template changes are unsuitable for a "change x to y" situation; they are best described using sandbox and testcases, since code blobs are sometimes difficult to follow and impossible to test directly. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:53, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
::::We do have {{tl|Interwiki talkback}} but it would be nice if the better known {{tl|Talkback}} could also be used. It accepts a username alone and automatically puts "User talk:" in front so the simple
would break many existing uses. The template uses
to detect a namespace at the English Wikipedia and omits "User talk:" in that case, but it doesn't detect interwiki links. {{tl|Is interwiki link}} could be used for this. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:27, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::A discussion has been started at Template talk:Talkback#Improvements so I copied my post there. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:35, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
The Wikipedia Library?
{{tracked|T313900}}
Hello! I hope this is the appropriate place to bring this up, if not I apologize. I am a new user with, at the time this occurred, 408 edits on en.wp and 7 edits on wikidata, and an edit history going back 139 days. After completing my 408th edit, I got a notification that I was eligible for WP:The Wikipedia Library.
I didn't think that was correct as I am under the 500 edits required for access, but tried logging in anyway (on the chance I'd misunderstood the requirements) and was correctly denied access. That part of the process seems to work as intended, but the notification was clearly in error.
I'm not in any particular need of this service at this time, so this isn't urgent or even particularly problematic, but I wanted to bring it up as it does seem to be some sort of bug.
As a more pedantic note, the WP:The Wikipedia Library page states it requires an account age of 6 months (mine is ~11 months old), but when I unsuccessfully tried to log in to TWL, it notified me I met the benchmark "6+ months editing" which is not the case, I'm about a month and a half short of that. I'm not sure what the intent is there, but the wording is unclear. NovaHyperion (talk) 23:48, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
:Viewing Special:Contributions/NovaHyperion shows "A user with 413 edits. Account created on 26 July 2024." at the top. Your first edit was in February 2025 but the account was created nearly a year ago so you do meet the 6 month requirement. I have no idea how or why you received a notification that you were eligible for WP:TWL given that your global contributions are under 500. This is the right place to find people who might know where that glitch should be reported. FYI it would be better to first ask at WT:The Wikipedia Library. For how-to questions try WP:HELPDESK. Johnuniq (talk) 09:51, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|NovaHyperion}} phab:T313900 speculates that edits before a user rename may be double counted. I count 87 edits before you were renamed. That's close enough to think we have the cause of the bug. It appears that getGlobalEditCount()
in [https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-TheWikipediaLibrary/blob/1551581b3e7d50c131708399173e736c623987e4/includes/Hooks.php#L169] returns the double count. I will post your case to phab:T313900. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:14, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
:::@Johnuniq @PrimeHunter Thank you both, for the advice and the explanation! I didn't know this was something that had come up before, how odd. NovaHyperion (talk) 23:02, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Welcome to the club, @NovaHyperion! 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 10:48, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::Haha, thank you @HotMess!
:::::I don't have the technical skills or ability to help resolve this further, but if there's anything else I can do or information needed to address this, please let me know! NovaHyperion (talk) 05:04, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::I have no idea either, but feel free to subscribe to the thing on phabricator (you can log in there with your mediawiki account) if you want to get notified if the people who know what they're doing are able to make any progress on the issue (that's how I found out that you rediscovered the same issue I encountered back in 2022) 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 20:06, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
Tech News: 2025-28
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Weekly highlight
- Temporary accounts have been rolled out on 18 large and medium-sized Wikipedias, including German, Japanese, French, and Chinese. Now, about 1/3 of all logged-out activity across wikis is coming from temporary accounts. Users involved in patrolling may be interested in two new documentation pages: Access to IP, explaining everything related to access to temporary account IP addresses, and Repository with a list of new gadgets and user scripts.
Updates for editors
- Anyone can play an experimental new game, WikiRun, that lets you race through Wikipedia by clicking from one article to another, aiming to reach a target page in as few steps and in as little time as possible. The project's goal is to explore new ways of engaging readers. [https://wikirun-game.toolforge.org/ Try playing the game] and let the team know what you think on the talk page.
- Users of the Wikipedia Android app in some languages can now play the new trivia game. Which came first? is a simple history game where you guess which of two events happened earlier on today's date. It was previously available as an A/B test. It is now available to all users in English, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Arabic, Turkish, and Chinese. The goal of the feature is to help engage with new generations of readers. [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2025/22]
- Users of the iOS Wikipedia App in some languages may see a new tabbed browsing feature that enables you to open multiple tabs while reading. This feature makes it easier to explore related topics and switch between articles. The A/B test is currently running in Arabic, English, and Japanese in selected regions. More details are available on the Tabbed Browsing project page.
- Bureaucrats on Wikimedia wikis can now use {{#special:VerifyOATHForUser}} to check if users have enabled two-factor authentication. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265726]
- File:Octicons-gift.svg A new feature related to Template Recall and Discovery will be deployed later this week to all Wikimedia projects: a template category browser will be introduced to assist users in finding templates to put in their “favourite” list. The browser will allow users to browse a list of templates which have been organised into a given category tree. The feature has been requested by the community through the Community Wishlist.
- It is now possible to access watchlist preferences from the watchlist page. Also the redundant button to edit the watchlist has been removed. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Moderator_Tools/Watchlist]
- File:Octicons-sync.svg View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were resolved last week.
Updates for technical contributors
- As part of MediaWiki 1.44 there is now a unified built-in Notifications system that makes it easier for developers to send, manage, and customize notifications. Check out the updated documentation at Manual:Notifications, information about migration in T388663 and details on deprecated hooks in T389624.
- File:Octicons-sync.svg Detailed code updates later this week: MediaWiki
Meetings and events
- WikidataCon 2025, the conference dedicated to Wikidata is now open for [https://pretalx.com/wikidatacon-2025/cfp session proposals] and for registration. This year's event will be held online from October 31 – November 02 and will explore on the theme of "Connecting People through Linked Open Data".
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
MediaWiki message delivery 00:01, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:What was "the redundant button to edit the watchlist"? Nardog (talk) 00:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::The linked page says {{tq|Additionally, the repeating 'Edit watchlist' button will be removed since there is an 'Edit watchlist' tab at the top of the page. }} I don't know what that means. At the top of my Watchlist on en.WP, I have "View and edit watchlist" and "Edit raw watchlist", which do different things, so they are not redundant. I do not have an "Edit watchlist" button. On my Preferences - Watchlist page, I see two buttons: "View and remove titles on your watchlist" and "Edit raw watchlist". I do not see an "Edit watchlist" button or tab. There is a [https://phab.wmfusercontent.org/file/data/5nq7bm3bkyvnadg4whwl/PHID-FILE-kuxslymu6bo2iekw77vh/Screenshot_2025-05-16_at_11.17.17%E2%80%AFAM.png screenshot at phab] that shows a link with a pencil icon, but I don't have that on my Watchlist. User:Quiddity (WMF), do you have any insight into this? – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:51, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, it looks like it was about a button that was only on the JS-enhanced interface (rcfilters=1
). Nardog (talk) 08:53, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Now "Edit raw watchlist" is gone though, which doesn't seem like a good idea... Nardog (talk) 13:28, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Odd - for me (Vector legacy), Special:EditWatchlist/raw is still the third item in a hatnote on Special:EditWatchlist and the second button in the "Edit watchlist" section of Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist. NebY (talk) 14:16, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::I'm talking about the watchlist itself. Special:EditWatchlist/raw comes in handy especially for those who can't access Special:EditWatchlist, so a link there wouldn't help. I know it's still linked from the preferences and I get how one might want to reduce the clutter at the top of the watchlist, but it's kinda unfortunate that the removal of the not-redundant item was not mentioned in the news. Nardog (talk) 14:28, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::Ah, that entry should've linked to the related tasks, too. In a nutshell, see the links on the right-hand side at phab:F63486925 (3 screenshots, taken today): the "watchlist-preferences" link was recently added to all skins (phab:T180906), and for a couple of weeks (until last week) the Vector-2022 skin thus had a (duplicate in that case) link for "Edit watchlist" in the same place (bug: phab:T395646) and that is what was removed. HTH. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:46, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::For those getting confused here. There are two independent preferences that, in certain combibnations, will display this extra button, or, also in certain combinations, fail to display the "Edit raw watchlist" link. The two settings are: (a) your skin at {{myprefs|Appearance}}; (b) "Use non-JavaScript interface" at {{myprefs|Watchlist}}. For example, if you set "Vector 2022" for (a) and disable (b), the extra button is shown. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:16, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The skin doesn't seem to be relevant. The non-JS interface has the old "View relevant changes {{!}} View and edit watchlist {{!}} Edit raw watchlist" links and the JS interface has the "Edit watchlist / Preferences" buttons regardless of the skin. Nardog (talk) 03:06, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Is WikiRun a new game? I swear it's been around for decades. CMD (talk) 04:29, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::You are correct that it's not a new idea, see Wikiracing. It looks like it's never been implemented on-wiki before though. Nebman227 (talk) 13:19, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::It looks like we have another article on the same subject in project space at Wikipedia:Wiki Game Nebman227 (talk) 13:23, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
Multiple images: with ~three images in one column, and one tall image in another column
I've been fiddling without success with the Template:Multiple image and Template:Photo montage to try and get 3 or 4 "normal"-shaped images in one column, and a "tall" image (like this constituting a second column. I would need a text caption for each image. Unfortunately, the templates are row-oriented rather than column-oriented like I need. Is there a solution? Thanks for any knowledge or advice. —RCraig09 (talk) 04:37, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
Date format consistency bot
Hi there good people! Is there any way a permanent bot could be coded to format dates in references consistently across the site? It's just in my contests a lot of time is spent having to prompt editors to use one style and them chasing things up. I think a bot should be operating making date formats consistent in articles so nobody needs to worry. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:50, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:Dr. Blofeld, WP:BOTREQ is that way. But I don't think there's any policy encouraging {{Tq|1=to format dates in references consistently across the site}}, just within an article. — Qwerfjkltalk 11:44, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::I mean using one date formatting style consistently on an individual article basis, though I would much prefer a written 8 July 2025 format than 2025-07-08. I've put in a request anyway, thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::It is often easiest to add {{tl|Use dmy dates}} or {{tl|Use mdy dates}}, which formats all Citation Style 1 citation templates like {{tl|cite web}} to use the same date format. {{U|Kusma}}, see the template documentation for year-first options. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Although I use these templates to regulate the display, people still use scripts to mess up my wikitext, changing it from the consistent yyyy-mm-dd output of ProveIt to dmy or mdy. —Kusma (talk) 06:26, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::I would revert and post a note on the editor's page with a link to WP:CITEVAR. They may not understand what they are doing. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates is not a bot but its .js contains code which may be useful for one. Certes (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:Is there a script to format all dates in the reference section as YYYY-MM-DD? Sometimes people armed with Ohconfucius's scripts edit my article and change the consistent date formatting to the one used in the body. It would be nice to have a script to fix this. —Kusma (talk) 14:51, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::A desire which I suspect is the direct opposite of what Dr Blofeld wants. MOS:DATEUNIFY has a lot to answer for. Nthep (talk) 20:24, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::Kusma, as of last month, that script can be used in the way you want. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:05, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::Thanks! Seems it is access dates and archive dates only, not all dates produced by tools like ProveIt. —Kusma (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::I believe that's correct. Bummer. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:56, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::The script would be so much better if it could just leave all dates in citation templates alone. They get autoformatted anyway, so all edits there are cosmetic edits to the wikitext that make it more ugly and less portable for no gain whatsoever. —Kusma (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Feel like there already are bots that do this (conform dates to {{tlf|Use dmy/mdy dates}}), not to mention CS1/2 templates already do as Jonesey95 points out. Nardog (talk) 11:40, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
Bug on mobile app
Whatever was done last night seems to have created a bug in the mobile app. While it shows the templates now on the mobile app (which i think is good), the bad thing is that now anytime you preview an article on the Android app, it shows white text on a white background and I cant hardly read it. Whether or not the same bug is also on the iOS app, i don't know, but it's definitely on Android. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 18:22, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:Can you try toggling "dark mode" and see if it helps? — xaosflux Talk 18:32, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the note! We noticed this earlier today, after rolling out some backend service updates. We have now released an updated version of the app that will fix the issue, and it should roll out to the Play Store within the next few hours. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 19:18, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::Someone fixed the bug now. But I had dark mode as the default setting. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 06:04, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
Discussion at [[:Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Implementation (tagline)|Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § Implementation (tagline)]]
File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § Implementation (tagline). –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:In particular I would like to get technical editor's opinion on the code in the proposal. It adds an invoke module call to every page on the wiki. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
How to modify column length such that its text at the column header doesn't clip into the next column?
Redirected from the Village Pump: For National monuments of Singapore, I want to change the width of some of the columns in its list to make the "notes" section easier to read. I've done a trial edit on the "nation monument #" column and I used "! style=max-width:[number]em" per Help:Table/Width. However, it just clips the text in the column header to the column header on its right (see the image below). File:National Monuments issue for Village Pump Technical.png
I'd like to know how to modify column widths such that it doesn't cause this issue. I am using Google Chrome and I believe I am on the latest version. Thanks! (No need to ping me as I am already subscribed to this thread per the comment left on the Village Pump)
Icepinner (formerly Imbluey2). Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 12:51, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:You [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_monuments_of_Singapore&diff=prev&oldid=1299275818 set a max-width of 1em], and the table appears to have done what you told it to do. I don't know what the width of columns has to do with the readability of the Notes section, which is below the table. If you're talking about giving the Details column in the table more room, it's not going to be easy, since the table has so many columns. You could possibly remove sortability on the Refs column. You could add {{para|nowrap|off}} to the dts templates. Other than that, or removing/merging some of the columns, I don't see a lot of wiggle room. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:02, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::The main problem with the table layout is that the Details column has far too many details for many of the entries. That's what the wikilinked building name is for. Some tables like List of generation I Pokémon#List of Pokémon place multiple data in the same cell to give more room for a large cell. Some tables like Game of Thrones season 1#Episodes use a separate row with a table-wide cell for detailed content. This system is mainly used for television episodes which does it with a row template. Otherwise it requires some coding in each row. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:32, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::@Jonesey95 meant to say "details" column instead of notes section. Anyways, I removed sortability for the images and refs column. I'm also considering to merge the address column with the coordinate section as seen with other FLs. @PrimeHunter I see. I'm trying to get the article to FLC so it will be a bit of struggle. There goes the thousands of bytes I've written... Well, the more you learn I suppose. Regardless, thanks both of you! :) Icepinner (formerly Imbluey2). Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 15:43, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::If you do something to make the details cell much wider on a desktop screen then the amount of details may be more acceptable but some if it does seem excessive to me. The number column appears based on "Date gazetted" and could be added there. It doesn't seem important enough to be the first column anyway. And a table which starts with a number column but isn't sorted by that column looks a bit odd. The image column isn't sortable so it might be combined with the building name in a column just called "Building", but that may be more controversial. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:00, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::Just did a massive clean-up. Anyways, will carry out the rest later, it's late in Singapore. Thanks! Icepinner (formerly Imbluey2). Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 16:41, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::{{replyto|Icepinner}} Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to set column widths in tables. For a start, you don't know what anybody else's setup is like - there are many factors involved, and available screen width is just one of them. But apart from that, browsers have (rather complicated) algorithms to optimise the various widths, see [https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/SPSD-html52-20210128/tabular-data.html#forming-a-table HTML 5.2 spec], so it's almost always best to simply leave it for the browser to work out. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:34, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@Redrose64 I see. I'll just merge some of the columns together. Thanks for the insight! Icepinner (formerly Imbluey2). Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 23:47, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
Where is help about File Wikilinks?
Help about Wikilinks is at Help:Link#Wikilinks
in this help is no info about special File wikilink
example for File Wikilink:
- usually Wikilink has two parts, here are 5 parts
- last part can contains other wikilinks
- first part start with "File:", in help is ":File:"
- is any other special wikilinks besides File?
Borneq (talk) 15:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:@Borneq Info about files File: "wikilinks" is at Help:Files, Help:Pictures, Wikipedia:Extended image syntax, and :mw:Help:Images. The distinction between File: and :File: is that the former displays the image whereas the latter links to the image (see Wikipedia:Extended image syntax#Linking to the image without displaying it). Other "special" wikilinks are Category:, which adds a page to a category, and using another language code such as de:, which is a deprecated way to add the page to the Interlanguage links list. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:38, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::I guess other users may look for it at Help:Link#Wikilinks so I have added a hatnote to Wikipedia:Extended image syntax.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Link&diff=prev&oldid=1299648843] PrimeHunter (talk) 16:27, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:There are 5 sections because that is how people can change captions, sizes of images etc. in a rather easy way. (I would assume that is why)
:The difference between “file:” and “:file:” is that the former displays the image and the latter links to the image.
:compare the two:
:The picture is displayed.
:This links to the file, which can be useful in some circumstances. 2001:8003:B15F:8000:41D6:229B:B1F2:5181 (talk) 12:17, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
Abuse log does not hide revision deleted edits
Posted by an IP at WP:EFR but I suspect this might be one for this page?
Copied text
- Task: Special:AbuseLog needs to be modified to take revdel into account.
- Reason: It should not be possible to use the edit filter log to bypass revdel of page history or user contribs.
- Diffs: I should not be able to see Special:AbuseLog/41283804. Although the filter is public and should remain so, the edits are revdelled, so the log entry should be hidden. 174.138.212.166 (talk) 04:36, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
Black Kite (talk) 08:02, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:This is :phab:T44734. Sjoerd de Bruin ({{int:Talkpagelinktext}}) 08:22, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:: That's been open since 2012, and (quite apart from the fact the devs appear to have abandoned it as "too hard") isn't quite the same issue - that one was to do with non-admins being able to see revisions from an article that was deleted completely. I'd suggest that revision-deleted edits from an article that still exists are likely to be much more problematic in some cases, given some of the reasons why revision-deletion is sometimes used. Black Kite (talk) 08:34, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::: Also, a separate question: would this also be the case for oversighted edits? Black Kite (talk) 08:37, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes. Oversighters are trained to look for adjacent things to oversight when needed (e.g. abusefilterlogs, system logs). — xaosflux Talk 12:56, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
Watchlist bug?
{{tracked|T399188}}
The "Watchlist options" includes a selection of "Period of time to display". This used to default to 3 days, which was useful. It now defaults to 1 hour, which is not.
Technical details: using Microsoft Edge, MonoBook Skin. My preferences page lists 3 hours as "Days to show in watchlist".
I note that there was some change in watchlist functionality recently; I wonder if this bug is related. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:36, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:@WikiDan61 on the right hand side on your watchlist there is a configuration option. Above the list of abbreviations. It has a gear icon. Click on it and you can select the amount of time you want. Polygnotus (talk) 11:46, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:: {{reply|Polygnotus}} I am not seeing said gear icon. Perhaps it does not appear on my skin / browser? WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:53, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::@WikiDan61 Well, I see it, even with MonoBook. You could try temporarily switching to a different theme. Or using a proper browser (Firefox) and not Edge. You can post a screenshot on imgur for example. I don't see anything in your .css or .js that would hide it. Polygnotus (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::@WikiDan61 See where it says "200 changes, 30 days" in this screenshot: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Screenshot_watchlist_lionel.png Righthand side, about 50% down. Polygnotus (talk) 12:02, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::: {{reply|Polygnotus}} I am unable to post images to imgur (blocked by company firewall), but my watchlist does not look like yours. My Recent Changes page looks like that, but my watchlist has a text box at the top of the page labeled "Watchlist Options" containing
:::: Below are the last 22 changes in the last 72 hours, as of 10 July 2025, 12:06:
:::: Period of time to display:
:::: Hide:
:::: Namespace:
::: I'm not sure why my Watchlist looks different (and switching to Chrome did not help), but it's the Period of time to display field that keeps getting screwed up, despite what my Special:Preferences page says. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:18, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::: {{reply|Polygnotus}} I figured out why my Watchlist is different: I had selected "Use non-JavaScript interface" in my Preferences. When I unclicked that option, I got the same Watchlist header as your image. Still, the non-JS version should still use my configured preferences to populate the "Period of time to display" field. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:21, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|WikiDan61}} Does Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist really say 3 hours and not 3 days? After various tests I finally guessed you had selected "Use non-JavaScript interface" but got an edit conflict when I tried to post it. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:26, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: {{reply|PrimeHunter}} No, it says 3 days. My comment above was a typo. Sorry for the confusion. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:46, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::Did you also have "Use non-JavaScript interface" when the default was 3 days for you? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:29, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: {{reply|PrimeHunter}} Yes. I haven't changed my preferences in quite some time. But this bug just appeared today. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:45, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I'm using Firefox, Vector-2022 and am using the non-JS interface. In my preferences the time to show in watchlist is 3 days which is what my watchlist is doing except on the watchlist itself the "period of time to display" is showing as 1 hour. I'm guessing this is some sort of WP:THURSDAY issue. Nthep (talk) 12:46, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::::{{replyto|WikiDan61}} There is no need to use imgur, or any other xternal image hosting service. We can host them ourselves, see WP:WPSHOT. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:39, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:There is at least a display bug here. My WL appears to be honoring my preferences duration (2 days), but the interface shows "1 hour" - which is easy to assume is the "current value". — xaosflux Talk 12:48, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::phab:T399188 opened. — xaosflux Talk 12:54, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I have found that in terms of the timespan of entries listed, Special:Watchlist honours the setting at {{myprefs|Watchlist|{{int:prefs-watchlist-days}}}}, however the selection dropdown "{{int:wlshowtime}}" shows 1 hour. Furthermore, if I append a query string, as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?days=0.5 it lists 12 hours worth of entries, but the selection dropdown still shows 1 hour. MonoBook, Firefox, non-JavaScript. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I knew that I'd seen this before. Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 167#Watchlist period resets to 1 hour in "unimproved" watchlist. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:23, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: {{reply|Redrose64}} Surprisingly, it was I who reported it that time too! My lucky bug! WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:44, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::Looks like we found the developer that caused the issue regression, they are working on it - I don't expect it would get released before next Thursday. — xaosflux Talk 22:19, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
Blue magnifying glass marking some edits in article history
Eg at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Students_for_a_Democratic_Society_(2006_organization)&curid=13315243&action=history] is see it at the recent edit made by DvcDeBlvngis. I presume this is a script I have, not sure what it means though. Thanks Doug Weller talk 15:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Doug Weller}} It's made by
in User:Doug Weller/common.js. See User:Harej/citation-watchlist. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:50, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. I figured it had to be a script I added, just wasn’t sure which. The test page is fascinating.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&hideWikibase=1&tagfilter=deprecated+source&limit=50&days=30&enhanced=1&urlversion=2]. Doug Weller talk 17:32, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
DYK not running on 12-hour set despite 140 approved nominations
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct place to report this, but I noticed that DYK is currently running 24-hour sets. However, as seen at the approved page, there is about 140 approved nominations, and per the backlog FAQ section, once it surpasses 120, it states it should go to 12-hour sets until there are less than 60 approved nominations. It hasn't as of yet, and since regular editors can't change it, I just wanted to help alleviate the problem by reporting it. If this isn't the right place, sorry, but I'm not sure where else to go for this. Thank you! SonOfYoutubers (talk) 01:21, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
:It seems like you have a question about how another editor's bot (User:DYKUpdateBot) is working. The operator of that bot may be reached here: User talk:Shubinator — xaosflux Talk 01:22, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you. SonOfYoutubers (talk) 01:28, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
MathML errors on [[Almost all]]
Continued from Wikipedia:Teahouse#Big scary errors
This is probably a more appropriate venue for this. The Almost all article displays MathML errors for me too; see https://imgur.com/a/8LJdbm3.
Considering the error {{red|
{{ctop}}
{{plist|
- Mobile
- OS: Custom ROM based on LineageOS—running Android 13
- Browsers: Chrome (138.0.7204.63), Firefox (140.0.3)
- No extensions installed
- PCs
- OSes: Windows 11, Arch w/ i3wm
- Browser: Firefox (140.0.4)
}}
{{cbot}}
Regards, — DVRTed (Talk) 13:51, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
:Possibly phab:T350717? — xaosflux Talk 14:06, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
::Seems like it. WP:PURGEing the page has resolved the issues with this particular article for me. — DVRTed (Talk) 17:13, 11 July 2025 (UTC)