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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bacon, Egg and Cheese sandwich

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Seddσn talk|[http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page WikimediaUK] 16:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

=[[Bacon, Egg and Cheese sandwich]]=

:{{la|Bacon, Egg and Cheese sandwich}} ([{{fullurl:Bacon, Egg and Cheese sandwich|wpReason={{urlencode: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bacon, Egg and Cheese sandwich}}&action=delete}} delete]) – (View AfD)(View log)

The entire article is basically summed up in its title. It is a sandwich containing bacon, egg and cheese. Despite everyone knowing what it is, what can we possibly expand on? We have 0 reliable sources that I can find on gnews/gbooks/gscholar (it appears no one wants to write anything about such a mundane topic) and the article's author has only just escaped a CSD A3 by adding "Also called a BEC". ~fl 10:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

::::(My personal favorite)....--Buster7 (talk) 12:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Delete in its current form as a restatement of the article's name. I am not sure if much more can be said about a Bacon, Egg Cheese sandwich without opening the floodgates to articles about all the multiple variations of wheat snacks. " Prawn and Vinegar Sandwich: A prawn and vinegar sandwich is composed of prawns and vinegar in a roll". Perhaps a redirection to Bacon sandwich in a paragraph about variations with cross-referencing to Cheese sandwich would be appropriate. Porturology (talk) 11:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • : Wouldn't Egg McMuffin be an equally plausible redirect target? Drawn Some (talk) 12:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • :: Hell no! I'd happily eat bacon, egg +cheese sandwiches, but McDonalds' version stinks. pablohablo. 12:29, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • ::: Biscuits and gravy for lunch. Cheers, Jack Merridew 13:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • :::: A merge the other way might be better as the McDonald's product is a specific implementation of general recipe. Cheers, Jack Merridew 12:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • : stricken per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FBacon%2C_Egg_and_Cheese_sandwich&diff=294536673&oldid=294522855 change of opinion given below] — Cheers, Jack Merridew 08:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete. So-called article just restates the obvious. One "source" fails wp:RS, the other is a dictionary, which is where this belongs. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment, in response to the original statement, everyone in you're culture or nation, but what about the rest of the world. Wikipedia is an Internet-site, available to the world, not just you're culture or nation.--Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • : Hi, Emmette. The BE&C is available here in Bali; a pretty good take on this iconic sandwich goes by the name of “Breakfast Special #1” at my favourite restaurant. They can't do the Kaiser rolls, though, so it's brown toast or a bagel. Cheers, Jack Merridew 10:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete. I'm going off of an old AFD I did two years ago (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tacos al Pastor), where the article simply described carnitas Al pastor in a tortilla. Boils down to WP:OR. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 15:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Merge to Bacon sandwich for which this seems to be one of numerous variations. Colonel Warden (talk) 15:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • : the primary ingredient is the eggs. cheers, Jack Merridew 15:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • :: Jack, please note that "other stuff exists" is an argument to avoid here in an AFD discussion. This was pointed out above. Thank you. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 16:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • ::: Note that my comment was regarding the inappropriateness of the suggested merge target. Cheers, Jack Merridew 16:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • :: That's the Egg, Bacon and Cheese sandwich. Colonel Warden (talk) 16:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete I agree that the article has nothing to contribute to the sum of human knowledge. Mandsford (talk) 15:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Strong keep Clearly a notable sandwich. The Egg McMuffin is one notable version. Not sure why some seem to think deleting it would make the encyclopedia better. Lots of coverage on google books [http://books.google.com/books?q=Bacon%2C+Egg+and+Cheese+sandwich], including on its nutritional qualities, recipes, versions etc. It's also, by the way, very strange to me that we would have an article on the Egg McMuffin but not the sandwich itself. It's like saying Kleenex is notable, but tissue isn't. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Merge them all to Breakfast sandwich since most are just a variation on that product. --Jeremy (blah blah) 18:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • : I appreciate that the author is trying to stretch the article, but the name of the sandwich pretty well tells the whole story, doesn't it? The current description is "a sandwich made with bacon, eggs (typically fried or scrambled), cheese and either bread or a roll, which is sometimes buttered and toasted. Some people have been known to use a bagel. The sandwich is often served with coffee. A more robust version includes a hash brown. One voter at Yahoo! Answers deemed it the 'Best sandwich in the world', while another voter thought that a Bacon, Egg, Cheese and Tomato sandwich was better. The sandwich is recommended as an economical breakfast at the Earl of Sandwich at Disney World where it cost $4.95 in 2006. Also called a BEC." I was checking to see whether we had an article on ham and eggs, and it turns out that some practical joker turned it into a redirect. No, it was not I. Mandsford (talk) 18:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete Lacks multiple independent and reliable sources with significant coverage of this specific combination of ingredients. It is the slippery slope towards repeating the "Bilateral relations of countries X and Y" thousands of articles, with potentially millions of articles, which simply state the permutations and combinations of everything that can be served between slices of bread. This is not prejudice against some sandwich that satisfies WP:N, which would include hamburgers, grilled cheese, hotdogs, BLT, PBJ, eggsalad, and numerous others. There is no notability in restating the ingredients of an Egg McMuffin. Edison (talk) 19:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Merge with Breakfast sandwich or possibly Bacon sandwich. Note that most of the references actually describe the breakfast sandwiches from particular restaurant chains or frozen food brands, or a "Canadian bacon sandwich." Cnilep (talk) 19:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment These is very substantial coverage of this notable sandwich. See [http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/articles/2008/04/27/incredible_edible_eggs/] and [http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=5968] for two esy to find examples. It is also discussed in numerous reliable book and newspaper sources. Perhaps if less time was spent trying to delete articles and more time to expand and improve them... but well, I don't want to bore anyone with the same old song and dance. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Commen part deux The article has been greatly expanded with many sources and bears little or no resemblance to the original. I think we can move into speedy keep mode now and move into improvement mode on this and other articles. The Ham and eggs article needs work too. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep all - notable foodstuffs. Bearian (talk) 01:02, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep The article has been properly expanded and referenced, and it now meets WP:RS standards. Pastor Theo (talk) 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep Certainly passes WP:N and the deletion rationale smacks of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. The article goes well beyond simply "bread-bacon-egg-cheese" and describes a wide variety of variations utilized by many restaurants, as well as the fact that these are not the most healthy sandwiches out there. Eauhomme (talk) 05:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I will change my opinion to Keep - it is an entirely different article to the one first nominated. Porturology (talk) 07:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

20px This article has been significantly improved since its nomination for deletion. — Jack Merridew 08:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Keep per recent article rescue. –Juliancolton | Talk 13:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep I'd say the rescue effort was a success. Geoff T C 15:22, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete. Unusually, I agree with every word [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FBacon%2C_Egg_and_Cheese_sandwich&diff=294429537&oldid=294427048 Edison says above]. Hamburger etc are notable because of their particular cultural significance; a particular combination of ingredients has nothing particularly notable about it. Every single reference relates to the US (and aside from the occasional McDonalds, it's a combination that would draw blank stares in a sandwich shop elsewhere in the world) – this is fine if you're treating it as a part of US culture, but there's nothing in the article, even in its new-and-expanded form, to suggest that this is the case. As Edison says, a similar article could be written about any combination of ingredients; this is the reason we have Ham, Mushroom and Pizza, but not Ham and mushroom pizza. – iridescent 17:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep. Looks better now. At least merge and redirect over delete if keep is not an option. There should be enough out there to create ham and mushroom pizza... mmm... hungry... --candle•wicke 18:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:::: No thanks. MAD Magazine tried to popularize a "Bacon, Lettuce, Egg and Chopped Ham" sandwich, which they called the "BLECH". Mandsford (talk) 20:30, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Merge / redirect somewhere: Edison makes a compelling case, though there are some nuggets of good information that shouldn't be lost by a simple delete. And the term seems reasonable enough for a redirect to remain. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep. I support a keep of the article Dscarth (talk) 22:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep per Pastor Theo. The article looks much better now, after rescue, could use a cleanup though. The sandwich is notable, which comes from it being a very popular/notable sandwhich in North America. - Epson291 (talk) 23:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • ...um, the Egg McMuffin is not an incarnation of this sandwich. The base type is made with ham not bacon. ("Canadian Bacon" as used in the US is much more like ham than it is like bacon) That material needs to be removed. After it's removed, the notability of this topic goes way down. Therefore ... delete and merge any remaining content to one or more of the other sandwich articles. ++Lar: t/c 03:29, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

::Canadian bacon seems to be equivalent to back bacon. Are you saying only streaky bacon a.k.a. bacon (in the United States) counts as bacon? This seems very discriminatory. Please don't belittle the lesser bacons enjoyed by people all over the world who don't know any better. This article isn't just about the Egg McMuffin (which can be had with TWO types of bacon, the real thing and the Canadian kind) but also about the other versions of the sandwich, such as the one served on sourdough at Arby's. There also appears to be something called the "Massive McMuffin" in Australia that includes bacon. Whether the bacon used qualifies under your very strict standards Lar I cannot say. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:::The article is not about the "Canadian Bacon, Egg and Cheese sandwich". Canadian Bacon, as eaten in the US, is ham, it's not the Back Bacon of elsewhere. I removed the ref to the original Egg McMuffin (along with the duplicate material about how it was invented) but left the Massive McMuffin reference, since I can't say whether it qualifies or not :)... last time I was on Oz I didn't have one. ++Lar: t/c 13:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:::: "after it's removed, the notability of this topic goes way down." Uhh... what? This article still has content and references. It also mentions plenty of other restaurants which offer the sandwich. While the article may end up being deleted for other reasons, the potential deletion of this article should not hinge on the exclusion of the Egg McMuffin. Also, bacon + egg + cheese + sandwich = Tasty as fuck --Cryptic C62 · Talk 03:18, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.