Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 6#Category:Persian alchemists

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Ancient tribes. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 23:36, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Indo-European tribes to :Category:Ancient tribes

:Nominator's rationale: merge, trivial intersection with language family. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. Mason (talk) 00:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom, various precedents such as Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_August_9#Category%3AIndo-European_archaeological_sites. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:10, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. Marco's concern (suggestion? question? not sure what to call it) was rebutted by LaundryPizza. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 23:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Star Wars: Visions characters}}

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 21:21, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• If not kept, shouldn't it be merged to :Category:Star Wars television characters? Marcocapelle (talk) 22:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
• Delete All four characters appear in other installations of the franchise, including the main film series. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:30, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Neo-noir film series navigational boxes and :Category:South Korea navigational boxes. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:31, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:South Korean neo-noir film series navigational boxes to :Category:Neo-noir film series navigational boxes

:Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT. ★Trekker (talk) 20:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Dual merge, also to :Category:South Korea navigational boxes. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:07, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. I found another child category (non-admin closure) Mason (talk) 20:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Azerbaijani scientists by century to :Category:Azerbaijani people by occupation and century

:Nominator's rationale: Only one child category that's not helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 20:29, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:31, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:21st-century metalsmiths by nationality to :Category:21st-century metalsmiths

:* Propose merging :Category:20th-century metalsmiths by nationality to :Category:20th-century metalsmiths

:* Propose merging :Category:19th-century metalsmiths by nationality to :Category:19th-century metalsmiths

:* Propose merging :Category:18th-century metalsmiths by nationality to :Category:18th-century metalsmiths

:Nominator's rationale: Upmerge: there is only one nationality in this category, making it unhelpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 20:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Merge, redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:10, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge both as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 23:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Former B Zone artists to :Category:B Zone artists

:* Propose merging :Category:Former Giza Studio artists to :Category:Giza Studio artists

:Nominator's rationale: There is no categorization scheme for former artists of a label under :Category:Recording artists by label. For example, Michael Jackson is in categories for {{c|Epic Records artists}} and {{c|Motown artists}}, and no subcategory of former artists exist for either. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:28, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:FYI: I found a discussion from 2015 that did establish some precedent on this. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 November 23#Category:Former Metal Blade Records artists. Thanks. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 19:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

::Merge per convention and precedent. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:32, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Saint Patrick's Day food}}

:Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization on a non-defining characteristic. Of the four things filed here, three have no special association with St. Patrick's Day per se, but are just bog-standard parts of everyday cuisine in Ireland or other regions with Irish-influenced local cuisines -- so while it would certainly be possible to eat them on St. Patrick's Day, they aren't uniquely "St. Patrick's Day foods" that would be defined by any special association with that day. Only one thing here, the McDonald's shamrock shake, is actually a uniquely St. Patrick's Day thing at all, and that's not enough for a category. Bearcat (talk) 16:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::support per nom Mason (talk) 20:18, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::support/delete per nom and WP:OCAT. Some of the cat members, like Colcannon for example, are not supported by text or references which classify membership based on defining characteristics. Guliolopez (talk) 10:27, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

::support per nom. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 09:55, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom (with the note that we do not regularly eat "corned beef and cabbage" in Ireland - that's an American thing, not an Irish thing). Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 13:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Male radio personalities}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for a non-defining characteristic. As at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 20#Category:Male radio presenters, the problem here is that while the category is technically expandable, per WP:CATEGRS categories for women do not always need to be balanced against equivalent categories for men as a matter of course, but rather it depends on context.
Like many jobs, radio broadcasting was very disproportionately seen as "man's work" for much of history, with women vastly underrepresented until at least the 1970s and possibly more like the 1980s -- meaning that this would be an unbrowsably massive megacategory for a good 75 per cent of all the articles we have about radio broadcasters. We categorize women because they're an underrepresented minority, whose participation in radio broadcasting as a career occasions sociological study -- so the relationship between career and gender is only defining for women in this instance, because it's a field where only women get gender-based analysis of the relationship between their career and their gender. Men in broadcasting are just broadcasters, and only women are "gendered broadcasters". Bearcat (talk) 15:37, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::Support (but upmerge to make sure that no one is lost from the parent to radio personalities. ) Mason (talk) 20:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::* Not even, because neither of the two articles even mentions radio. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WP:EGRS, "male radio personalities" is not a notable topic. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Songs written by Shelco Garcia}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one member, article Shelco Garcia is a redlink. No aid to navigation. Richhoncho (talk) 15:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Songs written by Pierre Billon}}

:Nominator's rationale: One one member, article is a redlink, Pierre Billon (songwriter). No aid to navigation. Richhoncho (talk) 15:14, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::support per nom Mason (talk) 20:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Songs written by Kledi Bahiti}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one member and main article is a redlink, Kledi Bahiti. No aid to navigation. Richhoncho (talk) 15:10, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::support per nom Mason (talk) 20:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Songs written by Jack Routh}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one member and the writer, Jack Routh is a red link. No aid to navigation. Richhoncho (talk) 15:05, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::support per nom Mason (talk) 20:21, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:18, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Churches in Hallsberg Municipality}}

:Nominator's rationale: 1 article within; redundant to :Category:Churches in Örebro County which is not a big category either. Geschichte (talk) 14:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge any purging can be done through the standard editorial process. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:28, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

:Propose merging :Category:Fictional professional thieves into :Category:Fictional thieves

:Nominator's rationale: I think this category is rather redundant. Besides, most if not all fictional thieves engage in stealing to make a living. AHI-3000 (talk) 02:04, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom, and we do not have :Category:Professional thieves either. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:40, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
• :Support per nom Mason (talk) 00:45, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
• Merge per nom, though some other forms of thieves are also found commonly in fiction, the office supplies thief, the lunchroom thief, the drug cabinet thief, the kleptomaniac, none of which do it as a primary means of living. And the supplementary income thieves, like the tip and/or till thief, embezzlers, drug addicts, gambling addicts. -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 03:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
• Reverse merge, and prune. - Anyone who steals an item is a thief. The potential for category bloat is already in evidence here. - jc37 11:26, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Pruning may be a good idea. That can be done at editorial discretion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:05, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

:** If someone is going to prune it, they might consider whether any of the contents would also fit in :Category:Fictional burglars, which currently has only Catwoman. – Fayenatic London 10:34, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: I have tagged :Category:Fictional thieves to allow for a reverse merge.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster^talk 14:05, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Merge There is no agreement on the definingness of theft, but we should have a parent at :Category:Fictional thieves. Recommend purging to only those characters where the trait is defining; even with that, serial theft is broader than "professional theft", for which we do not have an article. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Assassinated politicians from the Ottoman Empire. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 23:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Assassinated Ottoman politicians to :Category:Assassinated politicians from the Ottoman Empire

:Nominator's rationale: one person in the category, should be upmerged. and if not upmerged, should be renamed Mason (talk) 14:02, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Merge to :Category:20th-century murdered monarchs, the article is about a prince rather than a politician. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:27, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
• Comment. Even though I have added more pages so now there are 5, this category is part of the grandparent :Category:Assassinated politicians by nationality which often has subcategories of only one page. I oppose merging. Being a prince doesn't preclude being a politician also. Although not all princes are or were politicians, many princes historically have been also politicians, which was the case with Andreas Kopasis, who is in the category at hand and was a ruler. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 02:24, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

:* A ruler isn't necessarily a politician. Please quote sources that Andreas Kopasis was considered to be a politician. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

:*:I think this is a discussion to have in the talk page of Andreas Kopasis, which is categorized as an assassinated politician since 2013, by another editor. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 23:43, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:19, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:39, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:2000s Atlantic Records singles to :Category:Atlantic Records singles

:* Propose merging :Category:2010s Atlantic Records singles to :Category:Atlantic Records singles

:* Propose merging :Category:2020s Atlantic Records singles to :Category:Atlantic Records singles

:* Propose merging :Category:2000s Island Records singles to :Category:Island Records singles

:* Propose merging :Category:2010s Island Records singles to :Category:Island Records singles

:* Propose merging :Category:2020s Island Records singles to :Category:Island Records singles

:Nominator's rationale: The diffusion of categories within :Category:Singles by record label probably needs to be thought out more than just starting out with a couple of random labels and attempting to split them by decade of the singles release. Singles/songs are already well categorized by year, artist, producer, label, etc. I propose a reset and if there is concern about overpopulated categories for songs (and albums?) by record label, it should be discussed at a wider venue to be able to carry it out en masse. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 02:13, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

::Keep These labels are evidently big enough to diffuse into smaller subcategories. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:18, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

::: But how to do so should be discussed. Why by decade? Why just these two? Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:59, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster^talk 13:42, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:Support per nom. Singles are already separated by year, we do not need to do the same for record labels. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:51, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::PS. I know of no technical reason why these should be split, if there is, then different arguments apply. However, if you are looking for a song it will be in alphabetical order however the categories are split, whowever more difficult to find if you are not sure of which decade, or in the case of songs re-released in different decades. Let's make it easier for the reader. My opposition to separating by decade has become more entrenched. --Richhoncho (talk) 10:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

:Keep per LaundryPizza03, the categories are quite massive. Sahaib (talk) 16:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:Merge: I don't think there is any point in keeping those categories just by decade alone. 2600:6C52:4C40:E77:4898:7C7E:FC9:39DB (talk) 04:16, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:20, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Songs written by January Tyme}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one member of the category, no article for January Tyme. No aid to navigation. Richhoncho (talk) 13:25, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. Mason (talk) 13:50, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:30, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:20, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Song recordings produced by Jay Sleek}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only one member of category, no article for Jay Sleek. No aid to navigation. Richhoncho (talk) 12:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. Mason (talk) 13:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:30, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:WikiProject Mali templates. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|WikiProject Azawad templates}}

:Nominator's rationale: Two templates so a category isn't needed. Upmerge. Gonnym (talk) 12:00, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• Delete or merge to :Category:Azawad templates per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:WikiProject Mali templates, as the project was merged as a taskforce to WPMALI -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 07:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

:* That is also fine with me. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:18, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Museums in Ketchum, Idaho to :Category:Museums in Blaine County, Idaho

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. There is no category for Ketchum, Idaho. User:Namiba 04:00, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:*Delete per nom. Fun fact, fully OR, I happened to have been in Ketchum, and it is not the kind of place that would have multiple museums. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:*support per nom Mason (talk) 20:21, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:*Support per nom, though with the qualifier that I have started an AfD for the sole entry so it may not matter after that. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 13:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:19, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Azerbaijani professors to :Category:Azerbaijani academics

:Nominator's rationale: Professor as an academic title is not defining. Mason (talk) 00:05, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:*Manually merge, most articles should already be somewhere else in the tree of :Category:Azerbaijani academics. We categorize by occupation, not by title. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

:*Support per above. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 14:02, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

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