to Liquor store. I'll also tag with {{tl|R from subtopic}}. -- Tavix (talk) 18:09, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- {{no redirect|1 = Wine store }} → :Liquor store (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wine_store&action=history history] · [https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2019-10-23&end=2019-11-21&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Wine_store stats]) [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Wine store|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wine store closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Wine store|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wine store closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Wine store|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wine store closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]
- {{no redirect|1 = Wine shop }} → :Enoteca (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wine_shop&action=history history] · [https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2019-10-23&end=2019-11-21&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Wine_shop stats]) [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Wine shop|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wine store closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Wine shop|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wine store closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Wine shop|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wine store closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]
I don't think these two should have different targets. By its own description, an enoteca is just one type of wine shop. On the other hand, a liquor store is a broader topic. There's no reason we couldn't have an article at one of these titles (compare Beer shop), but I don't think deletion would be productive here. Right now, I'm leaning towards Liquor store as the target. Thoughts? --BDD (talk) 20:50, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:Agree, :Liquor store for both. Johnbod (talk) 22:08, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- Liquor store with hatnote to enoteca. If there's a third target, I would also support a DAB page. Wug·a·po·des 00:19, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- Send both to enoteca. A liquor store sells all kinds of alcohol; an enoteca focuses on wine and the literal meaning of "enoteca" is "wine store". Deryck C. 18:05, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943 (talk) 17:43, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
- Retarget both to liquor store with redirects here hatnote to go to enoteca and winery. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:05, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
- Retarget both to enoteca per {{u|Deryck Chan}} above. I was going to say Liquor store, but enoteca is a more specific target. This should be without prejudice to potential creation of a disambiguation page, which I just might do. I support the hatnote(s) proposed by {{u|AngusWOOF}}, though. (Full disclosure: my sister manages a non-notable wine store in Calgary.) --Doug Mehus T·C 02:57, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
{{cot|discussion not useful for determining consensus. -- Tavix (talk) 02:06, 7 December 2019 (UTC)}}
- Comment: Oh administrator {{u|BDD}} nominated this. Since {{they|BDD}} was uncertain as to redirect target, pinging {{them|BDD}} based on the recent !votes. Doug Mehus T·C 03:01, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- {{replyto|Dmehus}} you should not assume gender. If you do not know and do not want use a gender neutral construction, you can use {{temp|they}} or a related template (see the documentation there), e.g. {{they|BDD}}. You also do not need to tag everyone every time you mention them, and whether a nominator or commenter at an XfD discussion is an admin or not is not relevant. Thryduulf (talk) 11:46, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- {{rto|Thryduulf}} oh, that's an interesting template! Thank you! I did not know we had such a thing, or that we could even set our preferred gender pronoun in our "preferences." Very cool. What would make that even better is if that template also included a ping in the username, or at at least had a "p=[y/n]" parameter. I will try and remember that. As for including administrator before certain admins usernames, I do that as a sign of respect for admins which exemplify the model editor behaviour, knowledge of policies, neutrality, objectivity, etc., like an honourific. If, on the other hand, I am less enamoured by an admin, then I don't. You are most definitely in the former camp. :)Doug Mehus T·C 14:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- {{re|Dmehus}} Do NOT use "administrator" as an honorific. It is not one. -- Tavix (talk) 02:06, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- ::Wow, didn't know about the template either. Very cool! (I've long been in :Category:Male Wikipedians, though.) As for the target, any reasonable option that syncs these redirects up is an improvement to me. Enoteca still looks like a specialized type of wine shop; there are wine stores that mostly or exclusively sell wine (i.e., not beer or liquor) without being an enoteca. Still, with two concepts so close, this isn't a good candidate for redlink deletion. Enoteca is my second choice. --BDD (talk) 14:47, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
:::{{rto|BDD|Thryduulf}}, ah, is that how the template identifies our gender, if the editor has tagged their userpage (presumably not usertalk page?) with an appropriate gender category? I couldn't find anything in the actual Wikipedia site preferences. To your latter comment, BDD, I see your point in that Enoteca is a specialized wine shop and liquor stores also sell wine. I'd probably still prefer Enoteca as my first choice, with the hatnote, but actually, a disambiguation page might be the way to go (with Wine shop redirecting to the dab page, which could also have the effect of serving as the redirect to use when one intentionally needs to link to a dab page). Doug Mehus T·C 14:55, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
::::Yes, you can set gender in your preferences. It's under the Internationalisation section of the User profile tab. I suspect this is what the template is drawing from, though I'm surprised only he and she are offered there. --BDD (talk) 14:57, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
:::::Ah, thanks. I'll skip the tag this time since we're both active on this page. I missed that. I find it odd that it's under the "Internationalisation" section. I would've thought including it at the bottom of "Basic info" would've been more intuitive. I did see, (When mentioning you, the software will use gender neutral words whenever possible), but that's a curious option. Why not say, Gender neutral? --Doug Mehus T·C 15:02, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: Wow, that's really cool, and it works with them as well. Thank you, administrator {{u|Thryduulf}}. {{u|S Marshall}}, since you mentioned this as well in an unrelated talkpage discussion, my problem with misidentifying editors'/administrators' gender has been solved with the {{they}}/{{them}} templates. --Doug Mehus T·C 14:42, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
{{cob}}
- Retarget to liquor store, a plain-English term and what most people will be thinking of. Enoteca is an Italian thing, a narrow subset; it's a term unfamiliar to probably 99.99% of our readers, and to the extent it pertains to the English-speaking world at all, it's going to be something found only in major cities for the most part (and particularly wine-connected suburban enclaves like the California wine country just north of San Francisco). I agree that we could possibly have a spinoff article, similar to Beer shop, but until then, liquor store is the appropriate target. It's perfectly fine for a redirect to be a subset of the target article's scope, but it's often confusing and unhelpful for the target to be a subset of the redirect's scope. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 19:36, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
PS: I just did some overhauling at Beer shop (and made sure the obvious Beer store redirect actually existed), and at some related articles like Liquor store and Liquor license. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 00:46, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
