. Both "oppose" !votes appear to be intended as arguments for keep. signed, Rosguill talk 21:15, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
This nomination must be considered in the light of 73 other redirects created in the last few weeks for the same reasons and pointing to the same pages. An editor has created pages for London bus companies, which seems legitimate, but in an effort to bring inward links has created redirects for all the various London bus garages, pointing them to the company pages (London United Busways, Arriva London, Abellio (London & Surrey) or First London). They then attempted to wikilink from articles about localities such as South Croydon to the redirects, creating a confusing situation where it looked like there was more information on a bus garage, but in fact the redirect was about a modern bus company. Those links have all now been reverted because they were links to a redirect. We have a list article, List of bus garages in London but the creator has reverted at least one attempt to point the redirects there instead.
Given this background, my argument for deletion of these redirects is as follows, per WP:RDELETE (using the numbering from that policy):
1. The redirect page makes it unreasonably difficult for users to locate similarly named articles via the search engine. A search for South Croydon bus garage should return both South Croydon and List of bus garages in London, both of which have some information on the bus garage, including potentially historical information from London Transport days that will not be found in Arriva London;
2. The redirect might cause confusion. As per the attempts to link to the redirect from pages about localities that took the reader to an unexpected destination; and
10. The redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article. Bus garages are not generally notable, but plausibly some of them will be, in particular should they gain statutory listed building status, or if the site of notable events. They can also be important landmarks or areas may become named for them. This will not be true of all the garages, but is plausible for at least some of them.
I would suggest that redirecting these all to List of bus garages in London is acceptable but not optimal. In some cases the articles for the locations could actually contain more information on the history of the garage than the list (history of the garage in the context of the place), and the existence of the company pages also should be findable in search (current operating garages). As there is no single ideal redirect target, the redirects should be deleted.
As per WP:RHARMFUL, these redirects are novel, and with no extended edit history. Dealing with the situation now will not be harmful.
I will ask at AWBREQ for the other redirects to be tagged. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
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:Oppose: A redirect should point to the place where there is the most information on the subject. In the case of Stamford Hill bus garage, that is Arriva London#Stamford Hill (SF), not List of bus garages in London where it is listed, but has no text or cites. Same principal applies to the others. The reason that text on each garage is contained in the bus operator articles appears logical; they own them. The structure appears to have been in place for many years looking at the history of a few. If the redirects were just to the article generally and not to a specific section, or no mention of the subject then there would be a stronger case for deletion.
:These type of redirects are not without precedent, e.g. The Heritage Fleet, West Croydon bus station and Victoria tram stop are direct to the relevant section of Arriva London, West Croydon station and Manchester Victora station. Teedcapex (talk) 01:15, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
::The operating company is not the most logical place, because they only own the garages now. Before Cowie/Arriva owned South Croydon garage it was owned by South London Transport, before that London Buses owned it and before that it was owned (and built) by the General Omnibus Company. Similar histories exist for all of them. If I were interested in the garage, I would not want to know about Arriva (although plausibly some people searching might). It is very plausible that someone would write a history of a garage (as, for instance, someone did here [https://blog.lessavine.co.uk/arriva-london-croydon-bus-garage-tc/#:~:text=On%201%20April%201989%20London,Transport%20taking%20ownership%20of%20Croydon.]) There is no one correct page for the redirect. The list article is probably the best if we had to have a redirect as the list page wikilinks to the company pages and the location pages. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
:Oppose: I haven't checked all 74, but in the majority of cases which I have, the redirect is targeted to the page where information on the subject can be found. That is the purpose of a redirect, so these redirects appear to serve a legitimate purpose. For example, Palmers Green bus garage points to Arriva London#Palmers Green (AD), which gives a history of the garage going back to 1912. --RFBailey (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Per others this is where the most comprehensive information on the garages is. I'm not convinced that this is where that information should be (because in many cases the garage pre-dates the current owner and will not unlikely post-date some too) but that is outside the scope of this discussion and the redirects should point to the place that currently best helps the reader. Thryduulf (talk) 11:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
