Wikipedia:Teahouse#Templates in other language

If you are reading this, then I’m new to this site, this wiki. And I wanted to read multiple pages with great information. I am willing to participate in Wikipedia. I created my account lately. I did took a survey, after creating my account. So please to see, what do I need to explore first? What could you bring me into that, so I can be an editor? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 21:38, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|AmazingWikis4386}} Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Some interesting things you can do on Wikipedia are listed at this task center. Are you interested in any topic in particular? If so, there are also some interesting WikiProjects, which focus on one subject area. ‍Relativity ⚡️ 21:41, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::Ok, tasks to solve? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 21:42, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@AmazingWikis4386 When you said "I wanted to read multiple pages with great information".

:::Are you talking about the articles in the encyclopedia or "policy and guidelines" ? Anatole-berthe (talk) 21:48, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Articles in the encyclopedia. It’s just the information I enjoy reading. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 21:52, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Welcome to Wikipedia ! Anatole-berthe (talk) 21:54, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::@Anatole-berthe What can I do first? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 22:08, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Have you tried visiting Special:Homepage? I believe it's now enabled by default for new accounts. It will list some suggestions for changes you can make as a new editor, and may also pair you up with a mentor. If you don't see the newcomer homepage linked from the top of your user page, instructions to enable it are here. -- Avocado (talk) 22:53, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::@Avocado Yes, I visited the homepage and it’s looking fine to me. What is the mentor for? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 23:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::The mentor is someone you can ask questions about using and editing Wikipedia. You can also ask questions here at the Teahouse, but the mentor is a specific person who interacts with you repeatedly. They can give you more personalized support and feedback. You have no obligation to ask your mentor instead of the Teahouse when you have questions. But some people find the 1-1 discussion with the mentor more comfortable than asking on a more public forum like this one, and some people find the longer-term relationship valuable. -- Avocado (talk) Avocado (talk) 23:57, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::More personalized support and feedback? That’s cool. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 00:31, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::"More personalized support and feedback? " , I think you have all the necessary to make your path.

:::::::::::This is not necessary to be fast. Anatole-berthe (talk) 00:47, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::On editing suggestions, does these articles or pages change after you edit them? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Yes. Your edits change the articles. And then after you complete an editing suggestion, you should receive a new suggestion. -- Avocado (talk) 01:46, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Could suggestions include adding new information or fixing typos? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 01:56, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::@Avocado Could this suggestion be either difficult or simple? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 09:48, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::They could be either difficult or simple. And different people find different things difficult vs. simple. Why don't you try a few and find out how they are for you? -- Avocado (talk) 11:47, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::I will try and find out. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::I think those are sometimes among the suggestions, but I'm not sure. I don't know a ton of detail about what types of suggestions are offered, or how they're chosen. I suggest you just go to Special:Homepage and try a few. Don't be afraid to try. You'll learn more about the tasks by trying them than by asking what they are. Don't worry about getting everything just right -- if you make a mistake, someone will come along and fix it sooner or later. -- Avocado (talk) 11:52, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::That’s fine tough. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 16:10, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::@Anatole-berthe @Avocado @Relativity And whenever I checked the mentor on my Wikipedia homepage, it shows a specific random user, they suggested me to contact, instead of an administrator. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 18:54, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::Yes. You only need an administrator if you need someone with special permissions to do certain things like delete pages. Your mentor will be a normal (but experienced) editor. As are most of us here at the Teahouse. -- Avocado (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::@Avocado Is being a mentor a special user right or a privilege? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 17:17, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::Here's the FAQ for mentors. I think it answers that question. -- Avocado (talk) 17:23, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::@Avocado Could you even be a historian, despite not having over 500 edits to become extended confirmed editor? AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 19:36, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::{{outdent|12}} (outdent) What do you mean by being a historian?

::::::::You're asking a lot of questions about a lot of different things, without giving context to your questions. So it's hard for me to understand what it is you're trying to learn. What is your goal? What's standing in the way of your achieving that goal? -- Avocado (talk) 22:19, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::@Avocado Apologies for late reply, but I forgot to change from “historian” to a Teahouse host, possibly a typo error. I can say that is this possible to become a host in Teahouse, even though I’m not extended confirmed user?

:::::::::For this, my goal on this site is to edit Wikipedia often and become a regular contributor. My standing of that way is to keep track of the articles that require improvement and fixation. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 07:25, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Teahouse hosts are whoever feels like hanging out here and answering questions. If you see a question you are confident you know the correct answer to, you're welcome to answer it. I've been on Wikipedia for a while, but I still don't know everything, so I only answer questions about things I do know.

::::::::::There are two main ways to find articles that need to be fixed. One is to pick a type of fixing that you like to do (adding references? translating from another language you're fluent in? updating outdated information? adding images?), and look at categories of articles that have been tagged as needing that sort of fix.

::::::::::The other way is to choose a topic that interests you (tabletop games? cambodian history? planes, trains, or automobiles? a specific sport? etc.) and look at articles in that topic to see how you can improve them.

::::::::::Which approach sounds more appealing to you? -- Avocado (talk) 11:54, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::@Avocado Editing in random topic areas and fixing articles by adding references and updating the outdated information sounds approaching to me, at least I can do it. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 17:14, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::Great! You might find the lists here useful for finding those tasks. There's a "more..." link at the bottom of each short list where you can find a longer list of articles that need work. And also a "learn how" link so you can be confident you understand what's expected for that type of task. Hopefully that's enough to get you started. -- Avocado (talk) 21:12, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Alright, thank you for give me a task center and assisting me on Wikipedia. I do appreciate your posts on Teahouse. Maybe someday I can become a regular contributor on Wikipedia. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 22:20, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::At this point, after getting about 500 edits, I will become extended confirmed user, meaning that I will contribute to pages with extended confirmed protection. Thanks to anyone who reply to me and giving me a warm welcome to a website. I would do these edits to pages later then. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 02:48, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::What said @Relativity in the message published in "MAY/11/2025" at "21:41 UTC" isn't sufficient for you ?

:::::::There are also the message of @Avocado published in "MAY/11/2025" at "22:53 UTC".

:::::::Do you need more ? I think these things are sufficient for the moment.

:::::::Step by step. There are not an emmergency. Anatole-berthe (talk) 23:00, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::@Anatole-berthe Yes, I think I need more. And this is sufficient for me. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 23:43, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Excellent ! Anatole-berthe (talk) 00:21, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Thank you really much for this. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 04:07, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::Hello, @AmazingWikis4386, and welcome to the Teahouse and to Wikipedia.

:::::::::::One thing I want to warn you of: you may find that when you make an edit, somebody reverts your edit. Please don't get disheartened if this happens. It doesn't mean you are wrong: it means that the other editor disagrees that your edit was an improvement. This might be because they are more experienced in Wikipedia, and understand some policies better than you; or it might be because they know about that subject better than you. But it might be that they don't know the subject as well as you, and other editors would agree that your edit was a good one. Or it might be just that the two of you disagree about how best to say something.

:::::::::::If this happens, please don't just apply your edit again: either choose to let it go, or start a discussion with them and see if you can reach agreement. See WP:BRD for how this works. ColinFine (talk) 10:28, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::@ColinFine Thanks for telling me about the reverts, I’m sure on what can be an edit improvement. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Find a subject you're interested in, and edit there. Different topics have different kinds of small edits that need to be made – for example, articles on invertebrates tend to have old and poor-quality photos, so I've spent some time lately uploading free and better images. What sort of things are you interested in, and what topics do you think you'd like to edit? (These are not necessarily the same. I'm interested in politics but almost never edit there, for example). Cremastra (u — c) 23:55, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::@Cremastra @Avocado I’m interested in wikis, but I’m interested in learning something new and mostly recent events and ancient history, as well as literature in some cases. I don’t edit until I feel like it or I need to. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 01:36, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I would like to edit on Wikipedia, when I feel like it, on a specific date. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 19:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Is editing Wikipedia a way to learn stuff? I guess that depends on what you want to learn. For instance, you might be able to look up Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary and eventually learn what procedure a President might (theoretically) need to go through to convert it from its current status as a landmark to an operating prison. You can also ask chatgpt. Both will have a certain risk of inaccuracy (and it's not unusual for that inaccuracy to be fed by Wikipedia (see citogenesis).

::::You indicate that you want to edit "when you feel like it" ... which you can already do. I see you've created a page called "self" ... there's a lot of people who set up these pages about themselves, and there's nothing per se wrong with doing that, but the presumed purpose of being a wikipedia editor is to help "build an encyclopedia", so my personal feeling is that this sort of personal content is mostly a distraction... but maybe at some point it can become useful. Do bear in mind, however, that there are something like 30k or more "active" editors, it's quite likely that nobody will notice what you do unless you do something bad. From the beginning, you would have been able to edit almost any article on wikipedia, but they might have been subject to a review. However, after a mere 4 days and 10 edits, which is almost nothing (especially since the edit count includes non-article edits), then you become autoconfirmed, which means you're able to edit nearly any article you want.

::::Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Especially when it comes to creating new articles. There are a bunch of rules about articles. Rules about what meets the notability requirements (just because something is obviously notable to you doesn't mean it qualifies, there are rules about "making claims" (you're supposed to have a 'reliable source to make a claim (in principle, every statement you make in an article is backed up by a reliable source, and preferably one that can be accessed via a link.

::::Now I'll speak straight! I'm a tad hostile toward people who just think about how they can "participate" ... just use the site. You'll know when it's time to participate, because you'll see an article that you feel is deficient in some way. Even when you encounter something like that, don't be thinking "Here's my chance." There's really no reward for contributing ... but aside from that, there are many reasons why what you think is a really useful edit is actually counter-productive. You might think you're fixing a grammatical error, but you're wrong. You might think your edit is adding useful content, but it really doesn't belong. You might think you're correcting spelling, not realizing that the article is written using British English.

::::OTOH, the time will come when there's some obvious constructive edit you can make, then go for it. Bear in mind, if you're adding a fact and there's not already a citation to support it, then you should provide a citation to go along with it. Good luck! Fabrickator (talk) 05:32, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::@Fabrickator Oh boy, you are here, for the first one, yes. Editing Wikipedia is a way to learn stuff, especially when you fix typos or errors when editing an article. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 07:19, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::And for this, I can at least enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. AmazingWikis4386 (talk) 17:25, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::

The video of the newsreel of the Hindenburg disaster keeps having its audio cut out Lordofcallofduty (talk) 10:16, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:@Lordofcallofduty I've just played the video perfectly well, so I suspect the problem may be your Internet connection. Have you tried downloading the file from Commons and playing it when you are offline? Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:53, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::Weird I don’t have that as an option is the video that broken that you hear it differently even if I try that audio won’t work Lordofcallofduty (talk) 10:57, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Lordofcallofduty We might not be talking about the same file. I mean :File:1937-05-10 Special Release - Zeppelin Explodes Scores Dead.ogv on Commons and I can play that directly from the file page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:56, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::I was asking why the audio was cutting out on the article Lordofcallofduty (talk) 02:05, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Yes, that's what I tried, from Hindenburg disaster, when I first replied to you. It worked then and is still working today, hence my other suggestions. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:10, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::I swear is it happening to only me? Because it always happens when I use the article Is the video that old Lordofcallofduty (talk) 02:04, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello, please help me. I'm new here — I've been active for just one week. I have already created a draft translation from Arabic to English for an actor's page. I only translated the content without making any changes. How can I confirm or publish it? Farah244 (talk) 10:17, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:@Farah244 What's the draft called? Mainly you should read this when translating articles. Remember to give attribution. Cactus🌵 ^{spiky ouch} 10:21, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::Hello dear, thank you so much, this is Draft:Fatima Al Safi. translate from :ar:فاطمة الصفي. Farah244 (talk) 10:25, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Farah244 Here's a quick overview: Make sure you translate the template for the files in the article and also other template. Also, make sure sentences sound grammatically correct and flow cohesively, and also makes sense. the biography also needs more references to meet the notability guidelines for a biography. Also, remember to give attribution on the talk page. Cactus🌵 ^{spiky ouch} 10:40, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your feedback and will work on all your notes. Farah244 (talk) 10:43, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::I have added AFC tags to the draft. When you are done, just submit it and an editor would review it. Cactus🌵 ^{spiky ouch} 10:47, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Thank you so much . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Fatima_Al_Safi Farah244 (talk) 10:00, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Farah244 Welcome to the Teahouse. the various language versions of Wikipedia operate independently. So the fact that there is an Arabic article does not mean that there automatically may be an English one. Here on the English Wikipedia we have strict policies on what may be included. In relation to biographies of living people, there are very strict requirements for inline citations to reliable sources for all statements that could be challenged. The draft also needs to show that she is notable in the way we define this for actors. I'm afraid that IMDb is not considered a reliable source, (see WP:IMDB), so at present your draft falls considerably short of what we require. Please read the pages I have linked for more details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:46, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you so much, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Fatima_Al_Safi Farah244 (talk) 09:59, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

There is a big reason for users to have an account on Wikipedia. But how can we edit pages or timelines without making a literal single mistake on an encyclopedia? Are extensions useful? Thanks if told. Userbase10000 (talk) 17:31, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:You don't need to edit without making any mistakes! If you mess up, they can always be fixed. GoldRomean (talk) 17:36, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::@GoldRomean @Tarlby What about mass editing pages? Userbase10000 (talk) 17:59, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure what "mass editing pages" mean, could you clarify? True "mass editing" would require bots or tools that you have to get special permission to use. GoldRomean (talk) 18:11, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::That defines as making large amount of edits in a short time. Including this user editing pages. Userbase10000 (talk) 18:19, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::There's no problem with that. Tarlby ^{(t) (c)} 19:10, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Userbase10000, Special:Contributions/Userbase10000 currently tells me that you are: "A user with 17 edits. Account created on 3 May 2025. The 17 include only just three edits, all trivial, to articles. Pace {{U|Tarlby}}, but that's one reason why it seems very likely that there would be problems with mass edits. (A second reason is that your English is hard or even impossible to understand. Example: How could you "making large amount of edits in a short time" not "[include yourself] editing pages"?) Please start by making careful, constructive, and of course reliably sourced edits to a small number of articles. When you've got some experience in doing this successfully, you can of course be more ambitious. Your purpose in editing should not be to draw attention to yourself but instead to improve articles. -- Hoary (talk) 01:18, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Did understand, and I will make reliably sourced edits to articles. Userbase10000 (talk) 01:59, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @Userbase10000. You are always encouraged to fix any mistake you see. Mistakes can easily be reversed and fixed. Be bold! Tarlby ^{(t) (c)} 17:38, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::How can they be fixed? Userbase10000 (talk) 17:58, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::The same way they're made- by editing. 331dot (talk) 18:01, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::The edit summaries, like fixing mistakes. Userbase10000 (talk) 18:19, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::You can make a dummy edit with a different edit summary. Tarlby ^{(t) (c)} 19:10, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::A dummy edit? It’s just only a minor edit, with blank spaces. Userbase10000 (talk) 20:26, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi all! I have several articles I've made major improvements to that I'd like to be assessed for a new grade. I wasn't certain where to go about this, but if any admin are here that could post this comment in the right discussion space I'd appreciate it. I doubt any of the articles are up to full standard yet, but I think they've been critically improved to a level that they're deserving of a reassessment at the very least. You can find the articles I've made the most improvements to @ Contributions (Please notify me before removing major edits) with current grades attached on my userpage. All articles with a (**) that are at start grade or below I think are eligible for reassessment. I'm not as certain about any articles that are C or higher. My thanks in advance.

All the best - CSGinger14 (talk) 22:30, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Fun fact: you can do this yourself! According to Wikipedia:Content assessment, "[you can change it] if you think a different rating is justified. This only applies if it is not a source of major dispute. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 23:22, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::The WP:Rater gadget may be used to do this. Sarsenet•he/they•(talk) 00:35, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Unrelated, but I tried installing Rater a few days ago and it gave me a bunch of errors, I'm super bad at all the Javascript stuff, what am I doing wrong? @Sarsenet thanks. GoldRomean (talk) 20:38, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I'd like to make an article for My Schizophrenic Life: The Road to Recovery from Mental Illness by Sandra Yuen MacKay. It's a book. I read WP:NBOOK and it says two or more reliable publications for reviews constitute notability, but that that presumption can be rebutted. I found [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/000841741107800301 this] and [https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.650104 this] in terms of reviews. I also found [https://www.libraryjournal.com/review/my-schizophrenic-life-the-road-to-recovery-from-mental-illness this] rather lithe review in Library Journal and [https://rex.libraries.wsu.edu/view/pdfCoverPage?instCode=01ALLIANCE_WSU&filePid=13349964450001842&download=true this] in a dissertation (warning, downloads automatically). Any opinions welcome. Therapyisgood (talk) 23:00, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:All three are from professional sources. So long as you spread out citations and don't plagiarize you should be just fine. Just make sure you back it up with additional background info and citations therein. I may be wrong but none seem sketchy.

:- Best CSGinger14 (talk) 23:21, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Also, I might recommend you create a userpage. You can find info on doing so at Wikipedia:User pages. If I can be of assistance, let me know in my talk page. CSGinger14 (talk) 23:25, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Seconding what CSGinger said, since notability is often a contentious topic. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 01:04, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Therapyisgood, NB Thaller's unpublished dissertation is just that: see the warnings about dissertations/theses within Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Scholarship. Also, note that this was submitted to the university's Department of English, not that of psychiatry or similar. So it can be cited, but judiciously. (Have you looked for reviews in newspapers or non-academic magazines?) -- Hoary (talk) 01:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::{{ping|Hoary}} I found two more reviews-- one in The Canadian Journal of Occupational Therapy and another in Geist, though I don't have access to the Geist article. See [https://www.proquest.com/docview/871242504/321B27ACF3834202PQ/1?accountid=196403&sourcetype=Scholarly%20Journals here] and [https://www.proquest.com/docview/1011583946?accountid=196403&sourcetype=Magazines here]. I believe this now clears the notability requirement! That's four reviews, double what NBOOK suggests. Thanks again. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:22, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::OK, good luck with a draft, Therapyisgood. I was about to recommend WP:RX for the Geist review, but I see that you've found that page already. Incidentally, we normally skip a book's subtitle when titling an article or draft about it; so rather than "Draft:My Schizophrenic Life: The Road to Recovery from Mental Illness" I suggest "Draft:My Schizophrenic Life" (and rather than "Draft:Operators and Things: The Inner Life of a Schizophrenic" I suggest "Draft:Operators and Things). -- Hoary (talk) 23:09, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Can anyone help me remove the word advertisement from this article? Draft:BVG India Limited TYPEINFO (talk) 10:00, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:At this stage, {{U|TypeInfo}}, there's not much point. "History": the one reference is to the company itself. "Operations": not referenced at all. Total number of sources referenced: three, one of which is the company itself, the other two seemingly humdrum (though each demands that I should disable ad-blocking, and as I have no intention of doing so, I can't see either article). First, have the draft demonstrate "notability"; once it has reached that stage, remove the promotional language. -- Hoary (talk) 11:01, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:* One source is the company website, one is a press release put out by the company, and the third is routine coverage. None of these contribute to notability, and two of them are just "whatever the company wants to say about themselves". The third appears to just be rephrasing an existing press release rather than original journalism.

:* The 'History' section addresses the founders with honorifics (this reads very weirdly in my view, but maybe this is a barrier between American and Indian English).

:* "the company [...] was inspired by a vision to create employment opportunities for rural youth and contribute to India's development" ("rural individuals" later comes up in 'Workforce')

:* Further associates the business with charity by invoking a non-profit previously created by one of its founders with the current business (as an example, not once in Microsoft do we mention, let alone associate it with, the Gates Foundation, for good reason).

:* "The company serves [...] prestigious institutions"

:* "The company [...] has a significant presence across the country"

:* "BVG India Limited offers a wide range of services, including:" is a hyperlink away from Wikipedia being an affiliate advertiser for BVG.

:* "The company [...] is recognized for its commitment to social responsibility and sustainable practices"

:It is not our job to be any subject's wingman and write for them like this, although I do believe it was not your intent for this to sound like an advertisement. It's okay to point out if praise or criticism of them has been discussed in reliable, independent sources, but we have to let only those sources decide how we describe subjects. PS: Your removal of commercial spam at Excitel Broadband is highly appreciated. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 22:41, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi,

I've noticed that the unincorporated community "Boca Chica", located Texas, has been renamed "Starbase" on Wikipedia and is now presented as a city: see e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Boca_Chica_(Texas)&diff=prev&oldid=1290220394] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Starbase,_Texas&diff=prev&oldid=1290216021]. However, my understanding was that, for the city to be incorporated, the county judge had to enter an order. I cannot find anything about this having happened in the news / in the sources of the articles Boca Chica (Texas) & Starbase, Texas. Therefore, it seems to me that as of today Boca Chica hasn't been incorporated/renamed yet — in which case the recent changes linked above should be reverted. I am not from the US so I would greatly appreciate feedback from someone more familiar with the incorporation process.

See the following relevant talk page: Talk:Starbase, Texas.

Malparti (talk) 14:35, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:As an uninvolved party, I know nothing except this: a requested move was opened at the talk page, initially closed by a completely new user, contested at technical requests (permalink), and re-closed by {{u|wbm1058}}. From what I can tell, the relevant part of WP:NAMECHANGES seems to be: {{tq|common sense can be applied – if the subject of an article has a name change, it is reasonable to consider the usage following the change in reliable, English-language sources}}. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:14, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::Hi @Rotideypoc41352 and thanks for your feedback. There were two separate points in my message:

::* The designation as a city (or type C municipality), which appeared premature, given that from a legal point of view the community hasn't been "incorporated" yet. I'd say this has been solved, in large part with the help of @Wbm1058.

::* The renaming "Boca Chica" → "Starbase". From a legal point of view, I guess that the renaming hasn't happened yet; but I understand that the "official" name in US government databases isn't necessarily the WP:COMMONNAME (since anyway the "official" name seemed to be Kopernik Shores). That said, I guess a case can be made that we do not know yet whether the name "Starbase" is going to catch on and become the common name — so there is a bit of WP:CRYSTAL going on here. However I am not going to fight the renaming.

::In addition to these two points, I think that @SomethingForDeletion had a point when they said [my words, not theirs] the activity around the renaming was suspicious. In particular, it seems reasonably clear that the main reason for the creation of the account @DCAllStar has been to close requested move and enact the renaming. I wouldn't go as far as to say that this means that DCAllStar is a SockPuppet; but SomethingForDeletion is factually correct in saying that this user's behaviour is "not normal [...] for a brand new user". Not everyone has to be normal of course, so in case DCAllStar is a real user and is reading this: I do not mean to be unwelcoming, on the contrary. It's just that in a world where the person who suggested renaming that community is paying people to make it look like they are good at video games, my threshold for considering something "not unlikely" is quite low... Malparti (talk) 19:50, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Dear Friends :D

I think I finished working on an article about Cypher System, a (tt)RPG from Monte Cook Games. The article is wholly my own invention, and it has no references, but... all the data can be found in 2nd edition Corebook I listed in bibliography section? Is that okay? (???).

Also, I am unsure about my grammar and spelling, if some native speaker could do a check, I would be grateful ;-)

LINK to my draft is in here; User:Kaworu1992/Cypher System

Best wishes! --Kaworu1992 (talk) 16:19, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @Kaworu1992, welcome to the teahouse! I would look at this link if you haven't already. You also should not have any categories as the draft is not a mainspace article yet, and each claim the article makes should have a source - but the article looks good so far. If you want more specific help, you may want to ask over at WikipPoject Video Games. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 16:41, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::My dear ;-)

::It's not about a video game, but rather (pen and paper) RPG game ;-) You know, you buy a book and it describes how to play the game with your friends? ;-0 And you are rolling dice? ;-)

::I will also try to look over the Corebook and maybe "sourcerize" my claims ;-) Thanks for clarification in that matter ;-)

::Best wishes!

::-- Kaworu1992 (talk) 16:51, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Whoops, that's what I get for just lightly skimming the article.. ignore everything I said above haha. Try WikiProject Board and Table Games, and I think normal notability guidelines apply. I think there are enough independent sources per the reviews, but the in-text citations should be placed after the period (example: Lorem ipsum end.^[1]). My apologies for my earlier error. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 17:20, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::PS. I believes the categories begin with ":", so it's okay? At least we do that on Polish Wikipedia when working on drafts... ;-) Kaworu1992 (talk) 16:51, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes, that's how we do it here, too. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:04, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @Kaworu1992, and welcome to the Teahouse.

:I'm afraid the answer is No, that's not enough.

:A Wikipedia article should be a summary of what several people wholly unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable publications, and very little else.

:It looks to me as if none of your sources are both independent and reliable (WP:BGS says "there is weak consensus that the user-generated forum RPGnet is unreliable"). Without such sources, there can be no article. ColinFine (talk) 17:28, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::Dear Colin.

::Would citing the Core book itself make the article/sources more reliable? Or maybe it is a different kind of problem? -- Kaworu1992 (talk) 18:50, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Also, do you think I should put the CSRD in bibliography? I kinda do not know how to reference that, can somebody help me, please? -- Kaworu1992 (talk) 19:17, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Okay, very fast and not getting too deep, I added refs for official webpages of CSOL, Cypher System and Monte Cook Games. In the incoming days I am gonna cite the Corebook for the RPG system. Could somebody look at my reflist and tell me whether I am moving in the right direction?

::::Best wishes!

::::-- Kaworu1992 (talk) 20:16, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:@Kaworu1992 (and also to the others who've responded, who may not be gamers): We actually do have a WikiProject dedicated to TTRPGs, at WP:RPG. The Statistics section of the WikiProject lists Featured and Good articles which might give you some ideas for improving your draft. At first glance, the draft still relies too heavily on primary sources (rulebook and publisher's blog) and looks like it's mostly a summary of the key features and rules. I'd be looking for more discussion of the system in independent sources, placing it in the wider context of TTRPGs including previous Monte Cook systems. Cypher has been around for ten years now, so you should be able to find a few more secondary sources offering robust discussion and critique (but do read our guidelines on reliable sources, if you haven't already done so). ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 23:07, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::My dear :-)

::About the secondary sources, hm... the only thing I can think of are reviews? Could you maybe name some other text I could search for?

::Also, I think I have seen at least 1 video on YT about ttRPG where author argumented that Cypher System is superior to D&D, hm... I think I would like to use that as a resource for the article. But where to put that? In Reception section?

::Best wishes!

::-- Kaworu1992 (talk) 08:56, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Dear Friends.

:::I improved the article and sources as much as I could without reaching for 2nd edition Corebook to "sourcerize" my mechanics claims. Generally speaking, if RPGnet reviews aren't good sources, then we have problem with secondary sources for ttRPGs in whole, because on English Internet, ttRPG reviews are either RPGnet ones or some other published on "private" blogs. However, in the article there is also a ref for Polter.pl, which is, I believe, a "serious" resource (in Poland, you can not know that if you aren't Polish speakers, but Polter.pl is a regular editorial group that publishes its reviews and other texts).

:::I think I cannot improve the article further without getting the Corebook, as I said. Could you take a look and tell me what you think of sources I have used?

:::Best wishes

:::-- Kaworu1992 (talk) 09:33, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::EDIT: I have found around 3 reviews from Italian Internet that seem to come from reliable sources. Could I use them as "proper" sources in this case? -- Kaworu1992 (talk) 09:57, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Oh, and do you think I should divide "Reception" section into, I dunno, "English Internet", "Italian Internet", "Polish Internet" etc.? Kaworu1992 (talk) 10:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Dear Friends.

I added Italian reviews for my article. I hope that together with a Polter.pl review these sources are reliable. Could you have a look and tell me what you think?

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kaworu1992/Cypher_System

If everything is okay, I shall be adding to sources the Corebook.

Best wishes

-- Kaworu1992 (talk) 10:44, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello,

I've been working on Draft:Nahida (Genshin Impact character) and let @Nahida, an editor who seemed interested in Genshin Impact before, know about the draft in their talk page and asked if they were interested in helping out. They mentioned that they'd want to be careful editing a page like that given WP:COI. They have the exact same username as the character, although they did say they'd be interested in minor edits and suggestions. Given that the Nahida in the game is obviously fictional, does the COI policy apply here, and if so, what implications would it have on their ability to edit the article while following the rules? Gommeh ➡️ Talk to me 17:20, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Taking what has been said at face value, User:Nahida has been overly cautious and need not refrain from editing the article. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:01, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello guys! I did some changes on the page named "Wi-Fi Protected Setup", and i don't know if they are correct. If anyone is interested or in the domain of cybersecurity, networking or telecommunications, i would be grateful if they verify my recent changes [on that page].

Thanks in advance, --Dimitrie569 (Talk) 17:36, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Dimitrie569}} You'll probably have more luck on WP:VPT. Polygnotus (talk) 00:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

I have noticed another editor clearly engaging in Wikipedia:Canvassing. What is the proper warning or result for such behavior? See user:Gcolllins94 history for canvassing of user:Trs9k and user:Orxenhorf in an attempt to bring them into a talk page discussion on the Cody Wilson talk page. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:The proper warning is {{subst:Uw-canvass|Talk:Cody Wilson}}. Just post that on their talk page and save your changes. When you're done, it should look something like this:

::File:Ambox_warning_pn.svg It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of users' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote—in order to influence Talk:Cody Wilson. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Thank you.

:Also, just FYI you can use the {{User}} or {{IP}} templates to quickly generate links to the user's talk page like this: {{User|Gcollins94}}, {{User|Trs9k}} and {{User|Orxenhorf}}. Gommeh ➡️ Talk to me 17:54, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:I would strongly encourage users to check the conversations that happened on the talk pages of the specific users mentioned above. First of all, the discussion on TsR9k's page wasn't an "invitation to the talk page" (where he had already participated - so "inviting" him would have been a bit of a moot point), but rather conduct. I'm relatively new to editing, so I was trying to ask someone who had more experience than me how I should proceed. Nevertheless, you showed up. You got warned by an administrator for harassment because you posted an ominous and vaguely threatening comment that included my city and state. That was the point where I told you that these "notices" needed to stop. As I said on my talk page: please take a step back. Even if you think you're in the right, it's time to let someone else take care of it. What you did, coupled with what you're do it now, has bothered me so much that I've thought about washing my hands of the situation and perhaps nuking this account - which I made to read, not edit. It's almost not worth it, and over some mere objections I raised on an article. Secondly, the other user - if you check that profile, you'll see that I mistakenly thought he had reverted something (I was tired at the time), corrected myself, then yes - politely invited him to take a look at it. If that's a faux pas, I do apologize, but this was days ago, and notably days before the RfC, which I would imagine is your real issue at the moment. Rest assured, there's only one other user there besides myself - I thought it was strange you weren't participating, given your intense investment in this issue, but whatever. Please though: if you want to discuss the article, we can do it there, and I promise I'll remain cordial as possible. But as I said on my talk page, this needs to stop. It's time to take a step back. If I've blundered and you feel that needs correction - at this point, please just inform someone else. Bgx14 (talk) 20:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::I am not harassing you, and I suppose I regret the mention of region, but no harm was meant. The notices are standard practice for each time that you violate a policy in a vandalistic fashion. Most recently the act of canvassing. Furthermore, you do indeed seem to be a very experienced editor for one that has made less than 100 edits, so I just find that intriguing. Iljhgtn (talk) 03:43, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Bgx14 A couple other minor points if I may. You seem to take personal offense to the warning templates. No offense is meant by them, they are simply standard procedure for when someone runs afoul of the policies and guidelines, as you have. Also, typically there are up to four such warnings in a month prior to a block, unless the behavior is really obviously vandalism or some other problem is present. In this case, I will admit that it is somewhat hard for me to tell, the line is a bit blurry, but that is why the standard warning templates are exactly the right choice of warning you and abiding Wikipedia:AGF. I have no issue of course as well with you removing them from your page, as has been mentioned, when you remove them from your talk page it is just assumed that you have read the warning. It is your talk page after all! And just as in the warnings, there are policies and guidelines that advise editor conduct in that arena as well. Please note though that blanking your own talk page of warnings does not suddenly change the warning level (let's say you are at a tier 2 warning or tier 3, if you blank that, you do not suddenly revert back down to 1... so just keep that in mind). Additionally, while it is regrettable to ever lose any editor on Wikipedia, except clear and persistent vandals, you mentioned you made the account, "...to read, not edit." If this is indeed true, you do not need an account for that. Anyone can read Wikipedia. Only editing comes with additional rules, privileges and policy and guideline restrictions, which are taken seriously. Lastly, I plan to comment over the next week or so in depth on the original page related to all of your claims, I just need to find the time to do it. Please keep in mind Wikipedia:TIND. I am not sure of the sudden rush? I am impressed by your flurry of edits over the past couple of days, especially given that we had first had this discussion almost 6 months ago and then you were almost completely silent since that time. Why the sudden interest again, and why did we not just continue the conversation at that time? Even with the archive bot, there would have been at least a full month before any discussions would have been archived. Still seems very interesting to me. Iljhgtn (talk) 04:13, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::That's sort of what I mean - the accusations you draw seem sort of baseless to me, and intended to undermine any substantive suggestions I might have. Though maybe I should be flattered? But no - given how many basic formatting issues I've had, I think it should be obvious that I'm new to editing.

::::I have tenuous experience playing with HTML from back in the day, and this is similar, but I do find it all somewhat foreign. Nevertheless, I suppose I'll take that as a compliment?

::::As for my account - you'll note that I've been primarily using my mobile devices. Having an account allows you to sync saved articles on the app. That's really it haha. Pretty mundane reason there that I don't feel I am obligated to explain to you any further. I wasn't trying to "hide" your notices either -- I was letting you know that I thought them excessive. However, while I'm glad you have "regretted" what you did, this went from being merely annoying to upsetting when you mentioned my location. I genuinely don't fully understand what your intentions are. How could I? Given the nature of the dispute as well, plus the potential concerns about autobiographical editing I raised. The way the comment was phrased almost seemed retaliatory.

::::It's been about a year (over, actually) by the way since the first concerns about the article were raised. Why did I stop posting before? I gave up with the issue in frustration. I felt you were being obstinate and weren't willing to address my concerns, and I figured the amount of effort spent simply wasn't worth it (I feel like that might have been your intent, frankly). Note I attempted to make a single edit this year to the page (plus fixing the typos), but that was reverted by you. Note that I attempted to work around your major point of contention in those edits. Alas, we'll see what happens when consensus is reached.

::::More than any particular wording issues, primary concern with the article, what inspired me to at a minimum raise these concerns to editors, are the discoveries I elaborated on in my initial thread on the talk page. That's why I was concerned, you'll note, about it being buried in the archive. Again, despite your accusations, I am genuinely not all that familiar with much of the protocol here, especially for what appears to be something as complex as this. On 'canvassing' - I addressed to that above. I guess your lack of acknowledgement is a rejection of that explaination. Nevertheless, TsR was already in the discussion, and I was raising concerns about personal conduct on his page, not changes to any article. Plus, he was already a participant to the talk page - not that it was even about the talk page at that stage. In fact, the other concerns I had - I wasn't sure what the process was to point out conflicts of interest (namely, the subject of an article making huge autobiographical contributions, which I am still very concerned about). The other user I actually meant to discuss a revert (your revert, it turned out!) when I mistakenly thought it was his due to being tired. I corrected myself, then yes, I did ask him what he thought about everything (because he had edited the article before). However, if that was a mistake - then I do apologize! Both of these incidents were before the RfC -- I struggled through the formatting to even post that, so in retrospect I do think it's a bit amusing (or maybe, again, flattering?) than you're insinuating that I am an "experienced". Alas, if that's a real concern you have, you're free to raise it with someone else.

::::I do appreciate any substantive thoughts you can add to the discussion though! Nevertheless, I'm going to reiterate that at this stage, given everything that has happened, it is best that you take any concerns you have about mistakes I've made to a third party. Bgx14 (talk) 12:14, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Furthermore: Yes, you were. You were warned about it by an administrator. Let's not downplay it - what you posted seemed to be worded as a vague threat. You posted my town and state, how exactly do you 'suppose' someone would interpret that? No Wikipedia editing is worth compromising one's peace of mind.

:::::You've variously described me trying to raise concerns and issue corrections, while looking for input (and taking into consideration your own, sparse input) as vandalism. You've accused me of being a sockpuppet, that I am simultaneously too 'experienced' to be a new editor, yet unfamiliar with formatting, with policy. You've been paying extraordinarily close attention to my contribution log, and spamming my talk page with bogus warnings and notices. At the same moment you posted the comment that later got you warned for harassment, you were posting angry notices and personal comments to my talk page. I know you really want to lean into the disparity of our level of experience here, but nothing about that is normal behavior - on Wikipedia or anywhere else. It's nasty, it's obsessive, and for me it's genuinely unnerving.

:::::Please appreciate that and that it is inappropriate for you to continue to engage in the way you've been doing.Bgx14 (talk) 12:18, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Finally - since I've brought it up, and because I still don't know what the protocol for dealing with this is, I'll show users what I mean by autobiographical editing:

::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kamenev&oldid=251221024

::::::Note the name in that bio, and their significant contributions to what seems to be their own article:

::::::https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Kamenev/0/Cody%20Wilson

::::::It's probably worth noting that they've also made edits to a string of other topics related to themselves - the company he founded and owns (he created the article for it, wrote most of it), inserting legal disputes with other companies into their Wiki articles, etc. Honestly? The concerns I've had about what ought to be included to his main article are completely secondary to the ethical issues at play here.

::::::What worried me most when you posted my location is that it almost seemed/seems like it could be retaliation for me bringing attention to this. Bgx14 (talk) 14:44, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::This may be better suited for WP:ANI than the Teahouse, seeing as there are allegations of serious rule violations here, in particular outing and conflicts of interest. Gommeh ➡️ Talk to me 14:47, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Well, I sent an email to paid-en-wp@wikipedia.org about it after the incident the other day. Again, I wasn't sure (and am still not sure) what the protocol for this is. I'm sincerely lacking in experience here, especially with something that seems to be as complex as this. I thought simply bringing it up on the talk page would suffice, but I don't really know if it was the correct move to make. I thought about the ANI request (which I'm still going to figure out how to format), but due to the sensitive nature of events, that I would perhaps have to interact with... Kamenev - I wasn't sure if I felt comfortable with that. For what it's worth, I'm just going based on what was put in their bio there (in 2008, before they were a public figure, and the personal webpage link that seems to substantiate it). I just don't know exactly how I should proceed. Frankly, my main goal from the start was simply alerting other users, or someone else at least, to the problems here.

::::::::Looks like the issue with Kamenev has just been addressed - you're right though and I do agree, this is probably not the appropriate venue for these discussions.

::::::::Bgx14 (talk) 15:05, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I also agree there are some very serious allegations being levied here. Looks like one editor was blocked, which based on the history of the page seems to have made sense if they were in fact the subject of the page editing their own page and was undisclosed. Anyway, we can continue the discussion on the article itself and should continue to keep Wikipedia:FOC top of mind. Iljhgtn (talk) 16:26, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

My apologies for inviting negative attention here at the Teahouse, but there have been some particularly acrimonious interactions and I asked earlier about a canvassing warning, and now the editor is especially hostile just for using the templated response. Please let me know if I am out of bounds in this interaction.

Note, it would also appear as if the user "Gcollins94" just today even changed their username to "Bgx14". I was not even sure one could change their account name. Iljhgtn (talk) 20:12, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:The name change was directly related to this, where you brought up my location in a message that made me genuinely uncomfortable:

:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk%3ATrs9k#c-Iljhgtn-20250511033200-Gcollins94-20250511030100?wprov=sfla1

:I had to request it. I'm going to leave it at that. It should be self-evident why I'm pleading with you to stop sending me these countless notices, to allow a third party to intervene if you feel it's absolutely necessary. Bgx14 (talk) 20:58, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::I won't respond further, but I think that comment, whatever its details, was a very bad call on Iljhgtn's part, given it has now had to be oversighted. By the way, renamings are a very standard procedure. Cremastra (u — c) 23:58, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I am not really interested in the renaming. I was mainly seeking input on the act of canvassing. Iljhgtn (talk) 03:41, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi Tearoom. I'm sure I've seen somewhere a policy or guidance about avoiding lists of articles by the subject of an article, and only including a few particularly notable ones. I referred to WP:NOTRESUME and WP:NOTDIR in cutting a long list from Elizabeth Sims; the subject's wife has responded that she has {{tq|carefully read WP:NOTRESUME and WP:NOTDIR and don't see support for your statement that the list is "too long"}}. I've let her know about the CoI policy; but where can I find guidance on the specific list issue? Thanks as ever. Tacyarg (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not sure that any such guidance exists. Lists that others might find long don't worry me, as long as the items in those lists are substantial. (Articles shouldn't look like rather desperately bulked-up résumés.) In the lists within this article, most items do appear to be substantial; though I wonder about items such as {{Blue|Sims, Elizabeth (contributor 2019); and Amy Jones, (editor, 2019). 2020 Novel & Short Story Writer's Market [...]}}: just what did ES contribute to this book? Perhaps a good rule of thumb is: If a book contribution merits listing, then the contribution should be specified. -- Hoary (talk) 23:30, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think the relevant guideline might be {{slink|Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists of works#Basic list style – examples}}, which encourages {{tq|complete lists of works}}, and suggests splitting the list off into a separate article {{tq|if the list becomes so long that its inclusion in the main article would be unsuitable}}. However, I'm not sure that every contribution that Sims made to the various 'where to get published'-style books warrants inclusion in any such list – just the fiction and any substantial works of non-fiction. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 23:31, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's helpful. It's the long list I cut [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_Sims&diff=1290088949&oldid=1290088190 here], rather than the list of books in the article as it now is. Tacyarg (talk)…

I was thrown back when I read this line:

"He was imprisoned in Loevestein Castle for his involvement in the controversies over religious policy of the Dutch Republic, but escaped hidden in a chest of books that was regularly brought to him and was transported to Gorinchem."

on the page Hugo Grotius, and I thought "this is perfect for a DYK," but then I found out that DYK are only for articles that have been created within the last seven days, according to WP:DYKNEW. Why is this the case? There are plenty of things I've seen that I didn't think much about until like a month later or more.

Is this because of the small number of DKY volunteers? Lack of server space? Guylaen (talk) 00:21, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, {{u|Guylaen}}. This has nothing to do with the number of volunteers or the availability of server space. The purpose of DYK is to encourage writing new content, either new articles or 5X expansion of existing articles. It is not intended to highlight interesting old content. Cullen328 (talk) 00:30, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::So you're basically telling me I have to stick with talking to my friends and family about the interesting stuff I find in old articles? Ugh, lame. Guylaen (talk) 00:34, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes, that is correct. That is the way it works. Cremastra (u — c) 01:17, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::You could create a blog, Guylaen: "Interesting stuff I find in old Wikipedia articles". -- Hoary (talk) 02:25, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Or TikTok, Instagram, or what's not. – robertsky (talk) 02:59, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Guylaen You could write a column for the Signpost maybe, if you collect it for a month or so. I see some people put a bunch of weird facts on their user pages. Mrfoogles (talk) 04:04, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

See Depths of Wikipedia. Polygnotus (talk) 06:50, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm currently submitting Template:Did you know nominations/Wang Xiaolong (Chinese coast guardsman) for DYK, but it's been quite some time and there still hasn't been a review. May I ask how long DYK articles take to get reviewed on average?

P.S.

May I ask if I can also nominate multiple DYKs at once? I may be publishing some drafts soon Thehistorianisaac (talk) 06:51, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Was your second question not answered on 10 May? -- Hoary (talk) 11:12, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::Oh ok thanks. Thehistorianisaac (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Thehistorianisaac Your DYK was reviewed on 3 May and was fine except for the issue about the image. That prevented it getting the little green tick from User:Peaceray which would have drawn it to the attention of someone to promote the DYK to the next stage. I'm sure my alert here will mean that Peaceray will fix that, given you are new to the process. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:24, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::So can I find some way for it to not need the photo in DYK? the article has no problems Thehistorianisaac (talk) 17:44, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Thehistorianisaac}} I have approved it as a DYK with the caveat that the non-free image is okay in the article but should not be used on the main page. Peaceray (talk) 00:40, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Oh ok thanks Thehistorianisaac (talk) 00:42, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::@Thehistorianisaac So now the nomination is at WP:DYKNA and will move on from there. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:48, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Yeah I heard, that's great; Is there anything else I need to do, or is it ok from now on? Thehistorianisaac (talk) 15:57, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::No, it should all be automatic, unless those editors who move things on have questions for you, in which case I'd expect a WP:PING. It may still take a couple of weeks to get to the main page but you should be able to follow progress through the prep areas and queues. You will certainly be notified on your talk page when the hook goes live. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:16, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Oh ok thanks! Thehistorianisaac (talk) 16:18, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

English Wikipedia has an article about sheet metal but none about the profession sheet metal worker. Swedish Wikipedia's article about this profession instead links to "tinsmith", an apparently obsolete historical term for someone who makes small sheet-metal objects. A modern sheet metal worker usually does roofing and ventilation on construction projects. I know nothing much about sheet metal work, so I'm not confident that any stub article I created on English Wikipedia would stick. Please help! Martin Rundkvist (talk) 08:03, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @Mrund, I think, You're absolutely right to be cautious. Wikipedia has notability and verifiability standards that even stub articles must meet. However, a well-sourced stub about the sheet metal worker profession would be very likely be acceptable - IMO. Note: Different user have different views on this. Fade258 (talk) 08:29, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Further to the above reply, which is correct, you can start an article in your user-space or the draft space, and work on it until there is agreement that it is ready for publication (as determined by this process. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:09, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

1. In Foreign relations of the Philippines, I recently made an edit with the summary saying "ruin my life once again and I quit" because I got mad since Semsûrî reverted my previous edit (which I now admit as a mistake because I was admittedly forcing it). Is this normal, or do people with anger issues usually get warnings for doing so?

2. My talkpage seems to be full (and most of the messages are from bots notifying me about a deleted topic in this teahouse). What happens if I empty the talkpage? Is it okay if I do so? Underdwarf58 (talk) 12:14, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @Underdwarf58, welcome to the teahouse!

:1. Don't fret, everbody has bad days. I don't think you'll get any sort of warning as it doesn't seem to be a personal attack, just remember to try to remain civil.

:2. It is generally preferred that you archive your talk page messages rather than delete them. You can find a guide on how to do this here. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 12:36, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Re (1) a one-off almost certainly isn't going to result in any sort of sanctions. If you demonstrate a repeated pattern of reacting with negative emotions, that may cause you problems in the future. In the end, a Wikipedia edit isn't a life or death matter. If you find yourself getting worked up, I recommend stepping away and giving yourself an hour or a day or a week to cool down before you respond. But don't worry about this one case.

:Re (2) Yes, you're permitted to delete items from your own talk page, with a few exceptions (such as block notices). For things like warning templates and actual discussions, archiving them is more convenient for future visitors -- anything you delete is visible in your talk page history anyway. For automated notices like teahouse discussion closures, newsletters, arbitration committe voting notices, and the like, just deleting them is totally fine. -- Avocado (talk) 13:05, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::One more question in case. How do I report sockpuppets? Underdwarf58 (talk) 14:34, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::WP:SPI. Read the directions carefully, and you need to prevent specific points of evidence (diffs) to back your claim. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 14:36, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Okay, but are admins usually notified when a new sockpuppet investigation has been created? Underdwarf58 (talk) 14:56, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::A clerk or admin will go to the thread and perform what is called a "CheckUser", where they can view the IP address of a registered account. Then, if it matches, then the accounts will be blocked for sockpuppetry. It's a volunteer service, like everything on this site, but some users do patrol the page for new entries. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 15:03, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::{{u|PhoenixCaelestis}} and {{u|Underdwarf58}}, checkusers are a very small team of highly trusted administrators with access to powerful tools that are related to editor privacy. These tools are used only when necessary and only when justified by policy. There are only 45 checkusers out of about 440 active administrators. Most of the time, checkuser tools are not necessary to detect sockpupppets because the behavioral evidence is convincing. WP:SPI gets constant attention from administrators. Cullen328 (talk) 18:20, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I was unaware of that, I assumed checkusers were used for all sockpuppetry cases. Thanks for letting me know PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 19:08, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Do you know if Sarsenet will be available?  I had modified an article and the changes were removed a few days later.  He sent me a msg but I was too busy to respond.  I’ve revised my changes and wanted to implement them.  I sent him a msg a little while ago. DRHovis (talk) 17:38, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Good day @DRHovis, @Sarsenet may not be online at the time or may have not gotten notice of your changes. I have mentioned them in this comment, which should get their attention. Do you need Sarsenet specifically or do you just generally need help from an experienced editor. Thanks, ✶Quxyz✶ 19:36, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::Abo Yemen was assigned to help me by Sarsenet so I contacted him. He checked and I was not blocked, so I revised the article. Thank you for your help!

::There are a lot of places to go in the Wiki environment. It is interesting! DRHovis (talk) 20:03, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello! I'm a new editor still learning how to navigate article contributions responsibly, especially around conflict of interest.

I previously contributed to the Rebecca B. Alston article, but after feedback about promotional tone and a possible COI, I stepped away from directly editing the page. Since then, the article has been cleaned up with better alignment to standards, but it still carries several tags. I'm trying to understand what I could do better next time, or how to help responsibly from a distance.

I had a few specific questions:

– The article is tagged for lacking a citation for the subject's birthdate, but I noticed that Peter Frank’s article does not cite a birthdate either, and has no similar tag. I'm trying to understand how consistency works in applying these tags — not to dispute it, just to learn what’s expected.

– The “orphan article” tag is a bit unclear. I understand it means no other articles link to it, but I’d appreciate practical guidance on how to identify good linking opportunities or how to resolve that.

– There’s also a historic connection between Rebecca B. Alston and Peter Frank (he was quoted in earlier drafts), but due to the nature of her career, most references are physical media like gallery invites and reviews — harder to verify online. Is there a proper way to cite this kind of non-digital source when digital alternatives aren’t available?

I had considered reaching out to Anachronist directly, since they contributed to the original COI conversation, but wanted to check if it’s better to keep the discussion here in a community forum. I’m asking in good faith and truly want to improve as a contributor.

Thanks so much for your time and help. Archfusionpro (talk) 19:01, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Archfusionpro

:1. For the birthdate citation, you are free to add a citation needed tag or add a source mentioning his birthday to Peter Frank (whichever one you are referring to). Thank you for pointing out this issue! Wikipedia is a volunteer project after all, so not all issues with articles are recognized or fixed.

:2. WP:DE-ORPHAN can provide useful suggestions on how one could de-orphan an article. For example, adding links from related articles through intersecting categories or different language Wikipedias.

:3. Yes, a source can still be valid even if it isn't online. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:36, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Archfusionpro, most of the "Solo exhibitions" are unreferenced. Almost all of the "Selected group exhibitions" are unreferenced, and most are described so vaguely as to be unhelpful even to an energetic reader. (Random example: "1988: Anna Bornholt Gallery in London, England". When in 1988? What was it titled?) Many of the references are unhelpful. (Random example 1: "'Artists'. The New York Review. Boone Productions. 1986." If this is The New York Review of Books, then say so -- but what is the status of "Boone Productions"? If it isn't the NYRB, then what is it? Whatever it is, is it really dated no more precisely than "1986"? Random example 2: "Frank, Peter. 'REBECCA ALSTON: BIO-ABSTRACTION'. 2014." There's no need to SHOUT. Was it really an annual; and if not, then when in 2014? Whether an annual or not, what's the publication titled?) -- Hoary (talk) 22:52, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epfWIUK_efA&t=1s

This has also been transferred to vimeo. There is extensive crediting info that I don't understand. Can I use this on the site for Vilem Sokol?

Also, similar question to use this film documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q_iI1jhb7U&t=1470s Chamber Music Queen (talk) 19:44, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello! I believe the first video you linked (the 1812 overture involving Sokol) is good as an external link, as it improves the article and is not a copyright violation. You can check the explanatory essay Wikipedia:Video links to determine whether a video link is appropriate or not (you can use the flowchart there). Personally I would prefer to link to the original video on Vimeo because it's the original source, but the YouTube link is fine too if you think it's more convenient. The reason it's fine is because the original video is licensed with Creative Commons "Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives" (it says so below the credits on Vimeo). This basically means the video can be reused as long as its properly attributed, used non-commercially and left unaltered. The YouTube video respects that so it's not a copyright violation (which we usually mustn't link to on Wikipedia).

:So, the video may be inserted in the article as [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epfWIUK_efA Tchaikovsky 1812 overture directed by Vilem Sokol], by writing the following wikitext:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epfWIUK_efA Tchaikovsky 1812 overture directed by Vilem Sokol]

under an ==External links== section (below the References section). (You can replace the YouTube link with the Vimeo link if you prefer).

:About the second video: that one is a clear copyright violation, as the reuploader is not the copyright holder of the documentary nor does he have permission or license to reupload it. In consequence we can not link to it. You can however cite the [https://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-10ffb954222 American Archive link] the reuploader (improperly) linked to in the video description. The archive doesn't provide the video itself though, it only documents its existence. I think you can still use it as a reference anyway and then use the documentary's information on the Wikipedia article, although I'm not entirely certain. Hopefully another editor can clear this doubt. The Sophocrat (talk) 22:46, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::Ah, I just saw you already linked to the first video on the Films subsection of the article. I believe that is appropriate as well. The Sophocrat (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Thanks for this info.

:::I hope I did the 2nd video link correctly!

:::Also, can you remove the block at the top saying that the article still needs references? Thanks!! Chamber Music Queen (talk) 22:55, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::The 2nd video link seems fine to me.

::::Sure, the references are enough to remove the template. I have done so and improved a few of your references. You might already know about it, but The Seattle Times has [https://seattletimes.newsbank.com/ its own archives] which you could use to find and cite online scans of the pre-Internet citations of the newspaper in the article. For example, here are the two Seattle Times offline articles you currently cite: [https://seattletimes.newsbank.com/search?text=%22Graffman+Prove+Match%22&content_added=&date_from=&date_to=&pub%5B%5D=127D718D1E33F961] [https://seattletimes.newsbank.com/search?text=%22Symphony+Adds+Sokol%22&content_added=&date_from=&date_to=&pub%5B%5D=127D718D1E33F961]. It requires a paid subscription to access however, which I don't have. You might be interested in it though.

::::Also, I asked another editor about using the documentary as a source of information, and he agrees that it's okay to use it even though we can't link to the full video (analogous to citing an offline book).

::::Happy editing :) The Sophocrat (talk) 00:36, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::thanks very much! I appreciate the tips! Chamber Music Queen (talk) 04:08, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:FYI: see this user talk page section, where I answered the question without realising it had already been addressed here. Graham87 (talk) 08:02, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello I was wondering if it would be acceptable to use a llm to gather sources and then verify them myself and use them? Cheers OwlLemons (talk) 23:25, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:I have tried this. If you try it, be sure to check each and every single one of the sources you get. In my case, I observed a high incidence of hallucination, where the source didn't exist, the author didn't exist, the ISBN didn't exist, or the source referenced didn't actually contain what the AI said it did. I did get a couple of decent sources but the reliability of the AI suggestions, I found, was quite low. And the AI annoyingly provides them in a supremely confident, assured way, to sway you into taking its word.

:This was a year ago. Things may have improved.

:But definitely do not cite a source blindly if given to you by an AI. Check it out. Go to the library if you have to. You'll find that you'll be doing as much work validating the AI-generated sources as you would finding the sources yourself. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:38, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::@OwlLemons, LLMs have improved at this since @Anachronist last experimented. They still present many of the same problems, but much less badly. One thing they absolutely struggle to do, though, is to give you appropriate sources. Sometimes, they'll give you sources - real ones! - that no one in history has ever cited before. This presents some real problems for balanced wikipedia editing, since one of our major principles with regards to article sourcing and content is WP:DUE. So, I wouldn't recommend them for source-hunting either. However, there's something they are becoming quite useful for, which you may find convenient: finding a source you're thinking of when you already know what it is. Let's say you've read something before, but you can't remember what source you read it in. You're sure you've read it - but who wrote it and where? An LLM is great for this, because it can search much more quickly and effectively than you can, and you can easily and immediately tell if it's wrong. If it gives you results to things you haven't read, you know that's not it. If it gives you something you have, just open the source, check the location it specifies, and see if that's indeed the thing you remember. -- asilvering (talk) 00:12, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Ok thanks for the information! OwlLemons (talk) 15:18, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @OwlLemons! LLMs should not be used to do much of anything - they love to hallucinate and make stuff up. You can read WP:LLM (an essay about the usage of LLMs on Wikipedia) if you want more information. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 23:38, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:No. Cremastra (u — c) 23:54, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello, while editing on the Josef Mengele article I was citing [https://mjhnyc.org/events/mengele-unmasking-the-angel-of-death-book-talk/ this] expert book by David G. Marwell. I have the ebook (PDF) and epub versions. I cited the range of the pages used, which I got from the index on the PDF.

Admin {{u|Diannaa}} tells me she is using the paperback, and told me to "cite specific page numbers" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zenomonoz&diff=prev&oldid=1290277442] and created individual sfn citations for every page I wrote from. She then told me I got the page number "wrong" and that I need to "get thee to the library" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zenomonoz&diff=prev&oldid=1290303967]

However, ebooks and PDF versions do not have the same page numbers as paperbacks. They can be a page off. Thus, WP:EBOOK says it is acceptable to cite page ranges:

{{tq|"Specify the page number or range of page numbers... if there are no page numbers, whether in ebooks or print materials, then you can use other means of identifying the relevant section of a lengthy work, such as the chapter number, the section title, or the specific entry"}}

I was able to get the page range from the index of the PDF version.

I think a single citation (with a range of 13 pages) is more practical than 13 different citations to each single page, which creates a clutter in citations. Often short sentences written on Wikipedia are derived from analysis that spanned multiple pages in a source.

Dianna has insinuated that I must get a paperback copy (it's not available in my local library) otherwise I cannot be citing this work. This seems pretty impractical given WP:EBOOK guidelines. Citing the range (which I believe does align with the paperback) seems acceptable given I was writing with details that spanned this entire subchapter.

Thoughts?

Zenomonoz (talk) 23:51, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think Diannaa is serious about creating and maintaining top-quality work, and I think specific page citations are generally an improvement in quality. You're right that your practice is fine per EBOOK, and we should enthusiastically encourage people to add sourced content using ebooks. I sometimes see ebook citations include either quotations or brief snippets of text to search for. My memory isn't perfect, but I'm fairly sure I've seen that even in featured articles. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:42, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::I have continued this discussion, outlining more concerns on the talk page: Talk:Josef Mengele#Concerns and sourcing Zenomonoz (talk) 23:28, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

I am trying to accept an AfD draft, but I'm having trouble creating the page with the proper title. Inputting {{Italictitle|string=example1}} (example2) to the helper script gives an error. Thanks in advance, GoldRomean (talk) 02:28, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi GoldRomean. I don't know the helper script but if Italictitle causes a problem there then just omit it and add it manually to the page afterwards. {{tl|Italictitle}} is not part of the actual page name but just some code in the wikitext which influences how the name is displayed on the page itself. "{" and "|" are forbidden characters in page names so if you tried to add it to the actual page name then I can understand why it causes an error. If there are still problems then which page is it about? PrimeHunter (talk) 08:54, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:If you refer to Draft:Live on Tour (Bobby Vee album) then the infobox already adds italic title automatically so there is nothing to do. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:08, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks! GoldRomean (talk) 12:58, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Judaism is listed as autoconfirmed protected, and I have access to the edit button, but when I clicked it, an ECP warning popped up. Any ideas? Am I allowed to edit this page?

I just want to tweak a line in the lead to better reflect the cite and the material in the article.

Thanks Mikewem (talk) 02:46, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:It's just autoconfirm protected. Looking into the edit notice now. If the text you want to tweak is related to the Arab-Israel conflict, even indirectly, you shouldn't edit it. Otherwise, go for it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:50, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::I tweaked the edit notice. It now warns editors that "parts of" the article are subject to extra restrictions. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:54, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I really appreciate it. I’ve been working a little on Jewish principles of faith and I just want to copy some of that material to the section in the main page. I’ll do the changes right now and I totally understand you may review them to confirm it’s strictly non-conflict stuff. Mikewem (talk) 03:00, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi helpful people! I'm curious, is there a policy about including dead children in a person's infobox? If one of their kids died and one is alive, do we say they have 1 or 2 children? Thanks! Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:14, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi! Yes, they do count as children (I don't think any policy mentions it specifically but it makes sense and there's plenty of articles with noted dead children). So in your example we would say they have 2 children, but we would only name or cover them if they were notable. Feel free to ask any other questions. Happy edditing! The Sophocrat (talk) 03:39, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::@The Sophocrat, thanks for the swift response! Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:42, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{courtesy link|Draft:William Cullen McBride High School}}

I've just completed my final draft of "William Cullen McBride High School" and have submitted it for approval. The school closed in 1971 but has reasonably general local interest due to an active philanthropic alumni club.  However, the youngest graduate is in his 70s and, although a likely reader of Wikipedia, has no idea how to submit articles, much less approve them.  (I am, to my knowledge so far, the only exception, and that only recently) My point is that the article is definitely of interest to a reasonably good sized, but local, population, but I doubt it is to likely reviewers.  Is it still reasonable for me to expect it will be reviewed and approved despite this?

By the way, I really enjoyed my foray into wiki-authorship. So much to learn, and so many pitfalls to avoid.

Thanks in advance for your replies. This Teahouse concept is brilliant. Sickingm (talk) 04:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

• Happy to read that you like it here, Sickingm. Well, the draft has a chance. Start by cutting those sections within it that are unreferenced -- notably, "McBride Alumni Club" (which aside from being unreferenced is excessively detailed). Continue by cutting "Notable alumni" who aren't linked (such as Mark Bernsen) and those who are redlinked (such as Frank P. Boro). -- Hoary (talk) 05:03, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:It will certainly be reviewed, though this is likely to take time, regardless of the subject. The decision to publish will depend on suitability (per WP:N) and quality (particularly the citations), not the reviewer's personal interest in the subject. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:59, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks. I'll get working on it. Sickingm (talk) 19:40, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::Sorry if I'm being obtuse. Can you clarify - or point me to where I can get clarification - on the difference between a link, a reference, and a citation?

::Does a link refer only to WP articles or is it any hyperlink pointing to the subject?

::Is a reference an external, non-hyperlink, reference?

::So then is a citation a completely different animal from the other two?

::- Matt Sicking (sickingm) Sickingm (talk) 21:29, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I'll answer that in the subsection below. Terminological mysteries aside, thank you for your [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:William_Cullen_McBride_High_School&diff=prev&oldid=1287682220 candid edit summary]. Now I know how it is that the "Legacy" section is in somniferous LLM-speak: It was produced by a LLM ("AI"). Please do not subject readers to LLM-speak. -- Hoary (talk) 00:25, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

{{U|Sickingm}}, I'll try to answer your question about "hyperlinks", "references", and "citations".

"Hyperlinks" is a word normally shortened to "links". These can be "internal" (example: Depths of Wikipedia) or "external" (example: [https://bsky.app/profile/depthsofwikipedia.bsky.social Depths of Wikipedia]). Internal links can be used freely; but (since they point to Wikipedia, classed as an unreliable source) they can't be used as evidence for assertions. (They also can't demonstrate notability.) External links can't be used in body text, but if used in their place can be used as evidence for assertions and can add up to demonstrate notability.

From Depths of Wikipedia:

{{Blue|1=Annie Rauwerda, then a student in neuroscience at the University of Michigan,{{Cite magazine |last=Shamani |first=Joshi |date=January 13, 2022 |title=I Look For the Weirdest and Wildest Things on Wikipedia. Here's What I've Learned. |url=https://www.vice.com/en/article/depths-of-wikipedia-viral-instagram-tiktok-facts-trivia/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220125063955/https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypdzv/depths-of-wikipedia-viral-instagram-tiktok-facts-trivia |archive-date=January 25, 2022 |access-date=March 24, 2022 |magazine=Vice}}....}}

Within that, there are internal links to 'Annie Rauwerda', 'neuroscience', and 'University of Michigan'. There's a single reference: ('[blah blah blah]') It contains two external links: one to a page in the Vice website, the other to a Wayback Machine copy of the same at the Internet Archive. ("url-status=live" indicates that the Vice page isn't thought to have succumbed to link rot; if it ever does, the Wayback Machine copy can substitute. Although if the Wayback Machine ever ends, the sky falls.) Thanks to 'name="Shamani-2022"', this one reference can easily be reused. If you look in the article as a whole, you'll see that the one reference is indeed reused: it's invoked five times. People then talk either of a single reference used five times, or of a single source cited five times, or cited via five references. (Careless people such as myself mindlessly use the term "reference" with two or more meanings within a single paragraph. Sorryyy.)

One of these decades, I might get around to improving the article on Issei Suda. If I did, I'd want to cite the editorial material in the back of his posthumous photobook My Japan (Amsterdam: Fw, 2021; {{ISBN|9789490119959}}. I'd do so by looking into the physical codex (the dead-tree original): a copy resides on my bookshelf. As far as I know, the web has no PDF or similar that I might link to. But of course I can still cite the book, via a reference that won't have a link to the book. So citations and references don't always use links, rather as links aren't always for references or citations. -- Hoary (talk) 00:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi! I recently created a new draft article at Draft:MusicRadar and submitted it through Articles for Creation. The topic had been previously deleted, so I’ve rewritten it from scratch with multiple reliable sources to address notability concerns.

I’d really appreciate any feedback or suggestions while I wait for review. Thank you! Kitfox64 (talk) 05:41, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, {{u|Kitfox64}}. I highly recommend that you transform your references from bare URLs to fully fleshed out references with complete bibliographic information. This is not mandatory but it looks far more professional, is much more informative for readers, and makes it much easier for reviewers to evaluate your sources. It is to your benefit to make things smoother for the reviewers and to create a positive impression. See Referencing for beginners for the techniques. Cullen328 (talk) 05:56, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:More importantly and more urgently, Kitfox64, summarize what has been written about MusicRadar in reliable sources that are independent of MusicRadar. Because references to MusicRadar's own website, to prnewswire.com (mere PR fluff), and to pages such as [https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/future-launches-musicradar-site/764487 this] that merely recycle what MusicRadar says about itself will be inadequate for information about MusicRadar, no matter how scrupulously these references have been fleshed out. (Once the draft has a variety of solid references, written and published independently of MusicRadar, then yes, these references should be made informative and helpful.) -- Hoary (talk) 06:17, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello Teahouse,

I have drafted a new article for RR Kabel. It was auto submitted by AfC Submit Wizard and got declined by User:Jlwoodwa. I have made the necessary changes as per reviewer's feedback. Could you please review the revised draft and share your feedback! Is it ready for submission or any further changes required!!

Draft Article URL: Draft:RR KABEL Sachin.Beedigital (talk) 06:11, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Sample: "{{Olive|RR Kabel partnered with Bollywood actor Akshay Kumar as its brand ambassador.^{[36][37][38][39][40][41]}}}" I think that "partnered with" and "brand ambassador" mean "employed" and "shill" respectively; but we mustn't call a spade a spade so let's put the wording aside for a moment. This is a simple assertion, the veracity of which readers are unlikely to question. It therefore does not need six references. It just needs one source. Choose the most convincing of the six, retain it, and remove the other five. -- Hoary (talk) 06:24, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks @Hoary for the feedback. I have made few changes as per your suggestion and removed extra references from draft. Sachin.Beedigital (talk) 09:22, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Let me put it another way, Sachin.Beedigital. Normally references come one at a time. It's sometimes helpful to have a pair. It's most unusual to need to stack three together. More than three, and the editor is definitely doing something wrong. There's a name for this: "refbombing". It's interpreted as a (failed) attempt to trigger shock and awe in the AFC reviewer, or other reader. However, it doesn't trigger this. The interpretation continues: "The references are junk and the editor who perpetrated this is hoping that their sheer number will make up for this" (it won't). So please reduce the number of references. -- Hoary (talk) 09:50, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Understand your point @Hoary. I have reduced extra references and kept 1-2 references. Please let me know your feedback on current draft. Sachin.Beedigital (talk) 13:03, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::"NewsDesk", "Livemint" and the like aren't regarded as authors. (Simply, if no human can be named, then skip "first", "last", and "author".) Then resubmit. Good luck! -- Hoary (talk) 00:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Thanks @Hoary for helping me out. Sachin.Beedigital (talk) 05:26, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

hello there can i write a essay as anew user AAAAAYEHA (talk) 11:19, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello and welcome. Wikipedia does not host essays of original research. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia composed of articles that summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage choose on their own to say about a topic. Writing a new article is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia, and diving right in without knowledge and experience is likely to fail. You should first spend time editing existing articles in areas that interest you, to get a feel for how Wikipedia operates and what is expected of article content. Using the new user tutorial is a good idea as well. It's highly recommended that you use the article wizard to create and submit a draft once you are ready. 331dot (talk) 11:24, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::well there are some wikipedia essays AAAAAYEHA (talk) 11:36, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I didn't realize that was the type of essay you were talking about. There is nothing preventing you from doing so, say in your sandbox, but please see WP:ESSAY. 331dot (talk) 11:46, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

In recent months, I have carried out a personal project to improve and overhaul the Deadmau5 article as it stands. Despite the amount of my edits and the depth of their changes, I have failed to attract the attention of contributors who would be interested in helping the article. It was so bad that Drmies, in their evaluation of the article's quality, didn't really cite any examples for what they were rejecting the good article nomination for. Help? ~ GoatLordServant^(Talk) 14:04, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Courtesy ping to {{yo|Drmies|p=.}} Grumpylawnchair [ALT] (talk) 14:42, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:There are four WP:WikiProjects listed on the article's talk page. Ask on their talk pages. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:54, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you Andy Mabbett, I have added a section to the Canada and Musician Wikiprojects in light of your advice. The rest of the wikiprojects are both semi-active or inactive, so I have posting withheld a notice there (for now). Thank you!! ~ GoatLordServant^(Talk) 15:12, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::"I'm going to give this a quick fail: this has been open for months, and the article is undergoing constant revision, and there is some dispute in the history. At any rate it's simply not good enough now in terms of sourcing, formatting, and structure, before we even get to the writing. Hint: start weeding out poor sources, standardize all citations with the proper templates." Drmies (talk) 16:26, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::I am not familiar with all the sources in the article and this is the first time I have tackled a whole article that's been around this long. I am both unfamiliar with what you're referring to, where anything unstandardized would be, or even how to navigate references all that comfortably. That's a big reason I'm here, and again, I don't have any examples. ~ GoatLordServant^(Talk) 16:38, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::@GoatLordServant Getting an article to "good" status can be a hard slog. You need to look at the instructions at WP:GOOD and all the related tabs on that page. One of the ideas of the review is that the article already be fairly stable (i.e. not needing much more content, only formatting and perhaps somewhat pedantic tweaks) before the review starts. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:02, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::That was not what it was like when I was helping with Sans (Undertale), so I had not understood that. It would have been considered 'unstable' anywho with the controversy tag added late in its life as a submission-- was destined for rejection anyway. ~ GoatLordServant^(Talk) 17:14, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::I'm not sure what the doctor's problem with the citation templates is, but if I opened a GAN that had been in the queue for months and found that the nominator was still actively editing it, I'd probably put it down too. You might want to try to get some help at WP:PR, but these can also stand open for a long, long time. -- asilvering (talk) 06:15, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

I want to add a Swedish image example to the article Bowl of Hygeia#Usage of symbol by pharmaceutical associations. There are currently no readily available images on Wikimedia, but I was thinking about cropping the logo from the Apoteket article. I suspect that this might infringe some policies regarding copyright, but I just want to make sure, in case it's possible. – Christoffre (talk) 19:20, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi there. Check the "Apoteket" article’s image licensing (via its file page on Wikimedia Commons) to confirm if it’s free or non-free.

:If it's non-free, draft a fair use rationale explaining its relevance to the Bowl of Hygiea section and submit it for review at WP:FFD or you can ask an admin. Best, Editz2341231 (talk) 19:33, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi Christoffre Wikimedia Commons only accepts free-licensed or public-domain media. By policy “copyrighted symbols, logos, etc.” are not allowed on Commons. [https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/Commons:Licensing#:~:text=,See%20%20265 zh.wikipedia.org], and Commons categorically rejects any fair-use upload (including logos, film screenshots, etc.)commons.wikimedia.org[https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/Commons:Licensing#:~:text=,See%20%20265 zh.wikipedia.org]. In other words, Commons forbids uploading a copyrighted logo even if it were being “used” illustratively; Commons explicitly states that fair use “does not allow for the storage of material on Commons.”commons.wikimedia.org. Cropping or editing a logo is considered a derivative work, which still requires the original owner’s permission (i.e. a free license) to upload.

:So the Apoteket logo (even cropped) is copyrighted/trademarked and cannot be uploaded to Commons under its free-content rules[https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/Commons:Licensing#:~:text=,See%20%20265 zh.wikipedia.org]commons.wikimedia.org. Thank You Funtiberry (talk) 19:49, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:I would recommend using a free Hygieia symbol instead. Choose a public-domain or CC-licensed bowl-of-Hygieia image (for example, many pharmacy signs or icons on Commons as above commons.wikimedia.orgcommons.wikimedia.org). This complies with Commons’s free-content criteria. Funtiberry (talk) 19:53, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

How much knowledge is there on Wikipedia? Does Wikipedia have the same amount of knowledge as with paper encyclopedias? How do you gain experience? Knowledge542 (talk) 20:28, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @Knowledge542, welcome to the teahouse! Wikipedia probably has more knowledge in it then any other encyclopedia ever. That's one of the benefits of being an online encyclopedia - it all gets updated and expanded in real time! As per your second question, simply edit! If you're unsure what you can do, I'd suggest checking out the task center for a good list of things you can try out. From there, you can do all sorts of stuff - copyedit, source, categorize, and maybe even write an article once you feel you're ready! PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 20:38, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::@PhoenixCaelestis How could Wikipedia have more knowledge than any other encyclopedia? Knowledge542 (talk) 21:26, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::@Knowledge542, by volume alone? The World Book Encyclopedia claims to have over 17,000 articles in the 2025 set. Wikipedia has over 6 million. When I was a kid, we had two different full sets Funk & Wagnalls and the World Book, and a third set that was written for an audience of children learners. I read them. A lot. I tried to read cover-to-cover. For World Book, the jump references were too enticing, and I'd end up pulling out a different volume and reading that article. The articles were well edited. But, there were not the many thousands of contributors that Wikipedia has. And, there are only so many pages available. Some encyclopediae are more concise based on subject, or just to keep the page count low. Wikipedia does not have that physical limit. It does not have the same level of editorial oversight. Some articles are sparse or badly written. But they exist, or can be made to exist fairly quickly. This is not the case with an encyclopedia that is frozen in time. Even with the annual yearbook updates, the World Book became stale. Countries changed. Historical and scientific assumptions were disproved. We went from atoms being invisible to printing a photograph of an atom...a huge change in perception, and expensive addendum to a printed encyclopedia.

:::Have you read much of a conventional encyclopedia set? What has your experience been? Just Al (talk) 22:27, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::@Just Al @PhoenixCaelestis Yes I read a convention encyclopedia set and they look spectacular to me. I wish Wikipedia would be in print. What is the reason on lack of editorial oversight? Knowledge542 (talk) 00:42, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::My experience has been fine to me. Knowledge542 (talk) 00:43, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

I suppose this is a question on protocol or etiquette or ethics(?). Is there an appropriate method for me to send a personal note to a user whom I believe I recognize? For instance, hypothetically, suppose I read Colin Fine's AboutMe page and I was fairly convinced, from his picture, his name, and his IT & Linguistics background, that I knew him back in the 1990's when he was on an extended trip to St. Louis, and I wanted to say Hi. What is the best method, other than posting a hypothetical question on The Teahouse, to do so? Sickingm (talk) 21:43, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{u|Sickingm}}, some users (including {{u|ColinFine}}), have an "Email this user" link, about ⅔ of the way down the list of links at the left of their user page. You won't be able to find their email address from it, but you will be able to use it to send them a personal message. Maproom (talk) 21:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::^ That's a great observation. The user setting is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences | Email options | Allow other users to email me Just Al (talk) 22:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @Sickingm. I think I know who you are, and I tried to email you, but you haven't set up an email address, so I couldn't. ColinFine (talk) 22:35, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Please write to me an understandable essay including feedback for my draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:David_Thomas_King_School Rafaelthegreat (talk) 23:39, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @Rafaelthegreat, welcome to the teahouse! The best way to get feedback on your draft is to submit the article for review once more. Underneath the big banner, and before the article begins, there is a little yellow exclamation mark and the word "Comment". Your reviewer will leave feedback there. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 23:45, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:No, Rafaelthegreat, I am not going to write an essay. However: (1) A reference is normally used in order to provide evidence for an assertion. But a large percentage of the references in Draft:David Thomas King School are not for this. Indeed, I don't know what they're for. (2) What have reliable sources that are independent of David Thomas King School written about David Thomas King School? (If nobody can find such sources, no article can be created.) -- Hoary (talk) 01:13, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello! I need some help at the Teahouse as i need my article to be reviewed by next monday. I usually get my articles reviewed in a day or so. My topic has been mentioned very little or passed by in 1-2 articles but i made a deep down explanation of my topic situation. I ask that somebody help me get my article reviewed and possibly published and approved! SVSWIKIPED (talk) 02:10, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:the current one im making is one called Draft: 2025 Pakistani Airspace closure. Im hoping that this will get approved. SVSWIKIPED (talk) 02:11, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::SVSWIKIPED, allow me to quote SVSWIKIPED, which tells us: "I learned over my little time here to take your time. Don't rush on a article even if you don't have much time. Take it slow and make sure to re-read and cite your sources...." (Also, there is currently a backlog of over {{SAFESUBST:Rounddown|{{SAFESUBST:formatnum:{{SAFESUBST:PAGESINCATEGORY:Pending AfC submissions}}|R}}|-2}} drafts.) -- Hoary (talk) 03:21, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Yea the thing that i was concerned about mostly was the fact that this was graded. I just got the email saying that my educator was fine with it. I decided this one time to rush.

:::I always wonder how many people work for AfC team and more. How does backlog get this bad. : ( SVSWIKIPED (talk) 03:28, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::::One reason why it gets bad, SVSWIKIPED, is that very many drafts smell promotional without being indisputably promotional, another is that very many suggest notability while failing to demonstrate it, another is that very many cite sources that are pretty crappy without being indisputably crappy ... and any of these factors can lead to declines, further submissions, further declines, etc. And then, if a draft is basically OK, well, I for one am reluctant to accept any draft as an article that I wouldn't want to read. The necessary (I think) even if humdrum editing takes time ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Manchester%2C_Calgary&diff=1290618579&oldid=1276485512 most recent example]). -- Hoary (talk) 04:12, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::::@SVSWIKIPED: we're all volunteers, that's how! AfC reviewers are doing this on top of all the other things they do for the encyclopedia (like writing articles). You can see a list of us all at WP:AFCP - not really very many! Administrators and people with WP:NPP rights can review drafts too. Maybe you can join in once you've got some more experience. :) -- asilvering (talk) 06:04, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello can i make help pages AAAAAYEHA (talk) 06:23, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:AAAAAYEHA: as a very new user who has already been blocked once, your time here would be better spent making constructive edits to articles that adhere to the existing policies and guidelines. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 06:29, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Is there a term for the opposite of WP:Whitewashing? In other words, the desire by some editors to exert a Herculean effort to include a negative piece of information or something? As opposed to the Herculean effort to remove a negative piece of information. I am just curious if such a term or policy or essay exists. If not, then may it should. Iljhgtn (talk) 06:40, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @Iljhgtn, I think that there’s no official name for the opposite of whitewashing, the behavior is still covered by core content policies like WP:NPOV, WP:UNDUE, and WP:COATRACK. Similarly, If no clear term exists, proposing an essay or coining a suitable name could be a valuable contribution to the Wikipedia community’s editorial discourse. - IMO Fade258 (talk) 06:46, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::Yes, I am familiar with those policies, and could read up more on this. I think I might need to write my first essay then. I am open to suggestions on what to call it... "blackwashing" sounds awful and inappropriate, but something that effectively means the exact opposite of "whitewashing" would be good. Iljhgtn (talk) 06:48, 16 May 2025 (UTC)