Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 131#Template help needed

{{od}}This will add a button to the edit toolbar. --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:31, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

if ( typeof $j != 'undefined' && typeof $j.fn.wikiEditor != 'undefined' ) {

$j(document).ready( function() {

$j( '#wpTextbox1' ).wikiEditor( 'addToToolbar', {

'section': 'advanced',

'group': 'format',

'tools': {

'code nowiki': {

label: 'CodeNowiki',

type: 'button',

icon: 'https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Button_code_nowiki.png',

action: {

type: 'encapsulate',

options: {

pre: "",

post: ""

}

}

}

}

} );

} );

}

:Also, the report uses the present tense, but actually this feature isn't yet active on enwiki. It should start working on 23 October. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 02:00, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::The category is starting to fill up now. Some of the problems were with the templates themselves, such as [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Redirect_template&diff=prev&oldid=630839511 Redirect template] or [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Navbox_subgroup&diff=prev&oldid=630841283 Navbox subgroup]. -- WOSlinker (talk) 21:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Too bad there is no provision for an error message to show where the problem is. --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:10, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Gadget850}} I've submitted gerrit:168607 which will add one. Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:13, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::I've found that it also detects cases where a positional parameter is used in both unnamed and named forms, see the revision prior to {{diff|Talk:11:30|prev|630968435|this fix}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:17, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::If a page uses WP:LDR, and one or more of the refs inside the {{tlx|reflist|2=refs=...}} is not used within the main text, the page is put in {{cl|Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls}} for some reason (the error message Cite error: A list-defined reference named "..." is not used in the content (see the help page). is generated as before). --Redrose64 (talk) 19:42, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::{{ping|Redrose64}} That's because of an error in our local modifications to MediaWiki:Cite error references missing key. I've submitted an edit request to have it fixed. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:06, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::which I have now actioned, thanks. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:28, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

This category has considerable potential as a tool for tracking down errors. I think it would be more useful with two enhancements:

1. An error message is needed. It looks like that has been requested above.
2. As we do with Citation Style 1 errors, pages in the Draft, User, and all Talk namespaces should show the error messages but should not be included in the error tracking categories, since those pages should not be subject to cleanup. See this discussion for more details.

Should we move this discussion to a more relevant location, like Category talk:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls?

If you're working on cleaning up these errors, I recommend starting with templates, since fixing them will remove articles containing those templates from the category automatically. [//tools.wmflabs.org/catscan2/catscan2.php?depth=3&categories=Pages+using+duplicate+arguments+in+template+calls&negcats=Template+test+cases%0D%0ATemplate+sandboxes&ns%5B10%5D=1&sortby=title&doit=1 Here's a catscan query for templates in the category.]– Jonesey95 (talk) 21:52, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:I have fixed about 30 of these templates. There are currently about 20 left. They are (and were) mostly Navboxen. Some of them appear to have a redundancy in the {{para|state}} parameter that I do not know how to fix. Others are very long, and it might be easier to just wait for the error message to appear once that patch is deployed. Still others are a mystery to me. Happy hunting! – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:I'd oppose such a change to categorization. If you only want to see certain namespaces, then just query the category for those namespaces. There's no good reason to hide certain pages with errors from everyone, just to save a few people from having to filter the results themselves. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::I've fixed up three navboxes so far, their problems were different: {{diff|Template:Dundee F.C. matches|prev|630952833|Template:Dundee F.C. matches}}; {{diff|Template:Copa Libertadores seasons|prev|630963887|Template:Copa Libertadores seasons}}; {{diff|Template:Football in Lithuania|prev|630975762|Template:Football in Lithuania}}. What is this "redundancy in the {{para|state}} parameter"? --Redrose64 (talk) 23:28, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Here are a few that I haven't been able to figure out a fix for: {{tlx|Crimea topics}}, {{tlx|Faroe Islands topics}}, {{tlx|CanadianTerrorism}}, {{tlx|Northern Ireland topics}}, {{tlx|Netherlands topics}}. Some of them appear to have {{para|state}} duplicated, after a fashion, but there may be something else going on as well. More templates are populating the category as the database is refreshed, or whatever it is doing. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:37, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Template:CanadianTerrorism was an easy fix. The problems with the other 4 are caused by Template:Country topics, which is not simple to fix. I'll try to fix it in the next day or so. Jackmcbarn (talk) 04:46, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::I've fixed {{tl|Country topics}} with [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Country_topics&curid=37742478&diff=631037891&oldid=600898844 this edit]. -- WOSlinker (talk) 09:09, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::{{tl|Nsnavbox}} may need a similar fix. There is a whole bunch of conditional list and group numbering that may be unnecessary. It's too intricate for me to trust my editing skills. Another one that is causing a number of templates to show this error is {{tl|Don't edit this line}}. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:03, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::I've done [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Nsnavbox/sandbox&diff=631080863&oldid=631080136 this] in the sandbox for Nsnavbox, which might work but needs further checking. -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:38, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:The good news is that when the problem is in the template itself, not in the way that it is used in an article, the template is now listed at {{cl|Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls}}, for example Template:Nearest star systems is shown [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pages_using_duplicate_arguments_in_template_calls?from=Near here].

:The bad news is that I don't know of a good fix for the problems in that navbox. What it does is to bring in between 0 and 15 child navboxes, such as {{tlx|Star systems within 0 – 5 light-years}} and {{tlx|Star systems within 70 – 75 light-years}}. Those that it wants to display are put in {{para|list2}} {{para|list3}} etc. to {{para|list16}}, and since these are valid {{tlx|navbox}} params, they display. Those that it doesn't want to display are assigned to the undefined {{para|list}} parameter, which is why the template ends up in the error cat. I want to fix it by doing [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ComparePages?page1=Template:Nearest_star_systems&rev1=627117748&page2=Template:Nearest_star_systems/sandbox&rev2=631184407 this], but it blows out the template include size. Is there a better way? --Redrose64 (talk) 13:43, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{ping|Redrose64}} I'm off to bed now so I don't have time to check it properly, but would [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Nearest_star_systems/sandbox&diff=631198026&oldid=631184407 this kind of thing] do the trick? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 15:47, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:::{{replyto|Mr. Stradivarius}} {{ty}} that works. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:09, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

There are perfectly good reasons to use duplicate parameters and so I think that this needs more discussion before any more templates are changed. -- PBS (talk) 15:38, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

: There are a lot of pages showing up in the category that do not have duplicate parameters. Many of them are showing up in the category but the category isn't showing up on the page itself... There's something wrong here... — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 17:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::Probably because they were using a template that had a duplicate parameter, but the template has since been fixed. Have you tried a null edit on the articles to see if they are removed from the category? -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:52, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Help:Job queue. For example, yesterday I made {{diff|Template:India year nav|prev|631110178|this edit}}. Around 50 pages like 1901 in India didn't drop out of the cat immediately; but when I looked again 12 hours later, they'd all gone. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:47, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:::: Of course I've done null edits (which is why the category doesn't show on the page)... I also did a purge. Has nothing to do with the JQ (or the null edit / purge would've fixed it), something else is not WAI here... — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 19:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Please give examples of pages that won't drop out of the cat. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:06, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::A purge only updates the purged page and not the categories it is in. Template edits can also cause a category to be removed from a page without the page being removed from the category until much pater. A null edit should update both the page and the categories right away but we need an example to see whether something is wrong. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:42, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|PBS}} There are no reasons to ever duplicate parameters. When do you think there are? Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:36, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::Background at Template talk:Cite EB1922#HIDE_PARAMETER. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:18, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

The catscan query above shows a number of chess-related templates that I am unable to interpret or fix. Some of them invoke a Lua module, so they are not likely to blame. It looks like there may be a problem in one of the underlying templates shared by all of these templates, or else they all use the same techniques. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:41, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:It not actually a problem with the templates. It's the method used to call them. The documentation recommends the following format to use the templates:

{{Chess diagram
| tright
|
|=
8 |rd|nd|bd|qd|kd|bd|nd|rd|=
7 |pd|pd|pd|pd|  |pd|pd|pd|=
6 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
5 |  |  |  |  |pd|  |  |  |=
4 |  |  |  |  |pl|pl|  |  |=
3 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
2 |pl|pl|pl|pl|  |  |pl|pl|=
1 |rl|nl|bl|ql|kl|bl|nl|rl|=
a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h
| The King's Gambit
}}

:and it's the ='s bits that are the problem. It is passing over the blank parameter multiple times. You could rename those parmaters and it would then be ok:

{{Chess diagram
| tright
|
|x1=
8 |rd|nd|bd|qd|kd|bd|nd|rd|x2=
7 |pd|pd|pd|pd|  |pd|pd|pd|x3=
6 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |x4=
5 |  |  |  |  |pd|  |  |  |x5=
4 |  |  |  |  |pl|pl|  |  |x6=
3 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |x7=
2 |pl|pl|pl|pl|  |  |pl|pl|x8=
1 |rl|nl|bl|ql|kl|bl|nl|rl|x9=
a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h
| The King's Gambit
}}

:or remove them alltogether:

{{Chess diagram
| tright
|
|rd|nd|bd|qd|kd|bd|nd|rd
|pd|pd|pd|pd|  |pd|pd|pd
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
|  |  |  |  |pd|  |  |
|  |  |  |  |pl|pl|  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
|pl|pl|pl|pl|  |  |pl|pl
|rl|nl|bl|ql|kl|bl|nl|rl
| The King's Gambit
}}

:but either of those methods would probably get lots of complaints. I think it would be better if the mediawiki code could be modified to ignore the blank parameter. -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:54, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::I recommend we switch to your second format, just removing the dummy parameters entirely. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:35, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:::I've just written User:Mr. Stradivarius/chessboardfix.js, which fixes chess template code in the edit window to look like WOSlinker's second example. Add it to your script.js, go to a page with a chess template invocation in edit mode, highlight the template code, and click on the "Fix chessboards" link in the toolbar (underneath "what links here"). The text should be replaced with a chess diagram without duplicate parameters. I've tested it on normal chessboard templates, and a few esoteric chessboard templates like 10x10 boards, bughouse chess, and Raumschach chess, and it seems to work ok. Results should still be checked manually, and you should be extra careful if you use it to select normal wikitext, as there is a chance it may mangle some of it. I've only tested it on Firefox, so it might not work in other browsers. Let me know if you have any suggestions for how to improve it, as I'm still pretty new to JavaScript and there are bound to be things that I could do better. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 08:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

If an anonymous editor adds an external link to a page, a CAPTCHA interface is normally triggered, this is to protect against spambots. In 2012, I suggested a whitelist for links that are never going to be used for spam. This was implemented in 2013, and is at MediaWiki:Captcha-addurl-whitelist.

One of the items on the list is nih.gov, which houses PubMed, and is linked to in Template:Cite journal when a PMID number is provided, and in Template:PMID. In the latter template (and I assume in the former as well), the link is in protocol-relative form, i.e. like so: {{code|//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15988469}}. For me, this triggers the CAPTCHA interface, whereas {{code|http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15988469}} does not. Is there any way to allow protocol-relative URLs in the whitelist? Or can anyone think of another way of remedying this in the templates? 137.43.188.126 (talk) 15:36, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

:This is a bug in mw:Extension:ConfirmEdit, and is being tracked as bugzilla:61556. I don't see any activity at the bug page since it was filed back in February. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 16:05, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks, Since there is seemingly no interest in fixing the bug, should the templates be changed? Is the benefit in using protocol-relative URLs in these templates such that using it would be the lesser of the two evils? 137.43.164.84 (talk) 16:33, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:::It would be better to fix the bug, I think. All it takes is for one person to submit a patch (and for another person to review it and commit it to the repository). Any PHP coders in the house? :) — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 16:46, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::::I submitted gerrit:168074 to fix this. We definitely should not break external SSL for all our readers just to save new editors a little bit of hassle in the meantime. Jackmcbarn (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::::This will be fixed here on October 30th. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:26, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:Works fine for me. You may want to try not using Internet Explorer. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 06:36, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:The tin doesn't say what goes wrong. Users with wikEd enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets sometimes have problems editing js and css files. The usual problem is that the edit box goes blank, and temporarily disabling wikEd on the icon File:WikEd logo.png at the top right solves it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:35, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{ping|PrimeHunter}} I don't have wikiEd enabled, and I can still see the text, I just can't edit it (sorry for not being clear before). Also, for some reason It now gets stuck in "JavaScript mode", and if I click "show preview", the box goes blank. --User J. Dalek (talk | contribs) 22:23, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Do you mean you can see the text in the edit box after clicking edit, but before clicking preview? Can you place a cursor in the edit box by clicking there? Do you literally mean "/skin.js" as in User:UserJDalek/skin.js. It should for you be a redirect to a page for your skin like User:UserJDalek/vector.js (others will redirect to "User:UserJDalek/theirownskin.js" which is an odd feature). What is your browser and skin? Can you create a css page like User:UserJDalek/common.css? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:00, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::::{{ping|PrimeHunter}} To answer your first question; yes, it's exactly like that. For your second, no, it doesn't work. Third, no, I do mean my /vector.js page. Fourth, as I already said, I use Internet Explorer 11, and my skin is vector. Finally, no, I can't create the CSS page either. --User J. Dalek (talk | contribs) 02:50, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::OK. I have no problem in IE9 but cannot test IE11. Have you tried to clear your entire cache? Does https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:UserJDalek/vector.js&action=edit&useskin=monobook work? It would probably work to temporarily disable JavaScript in your browser but that can be cumbersome and doesn't allow you to test the code until you have saved and enabled JavaScript again. You can also ask an admin to edit the page if you don't think it will require many tweaks. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:27, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::It works now, but (for reasons I can't explain here), I'm now using a different computer that runs IE10. --User J. Dalek (talk | contribs) 22:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::Please ignore the above message, I'm back with the old computer, and yes, it works with MonoBook. --User J. Dalek (talk | contribs) 01:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

At 2009 UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships (and other articles in the same series, like 2008 UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships or 2010 UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships, or related ones like 2007 UCI Track Cycling World Championships, but not on unrelated articles), I get ridiculously large "edit source" and "edit beta" links next to the title and section headers, and a "Jump to: navigation, search" link beneath the standard "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" line. At the bottom I get a line like "Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2008_UCI_Cyclo-cross_World_Championships&oldid=605376531" " and the categories in some strange huge box, one above each other, instead of next to each other.

Any ideas? Fram (talk) 09:17, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:I don't see this. But I have seen it on about two other pages in the last month. I suspect a server issue. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:39, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::It's gone for me now a well, someone has super-rapidly corrected the error (or, more probably, it is some server issue indeed). Fram (talk) 09:59, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:::The sometimes visible "Jump to: navigation, search" is also discussed at Talk:Main Page#Did something change? I can see it in Firefox with the procedure there: Click on "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" and then press Tab. Or by just pressing Tab three times (more if there is a banner). The html source of rendered pages also says

::::{{replyto|PrimeHunter}} A visible "Jump to: navigation, search" is not the main problem here, which is a font size of approximately 150% on certain elements plus a malformed cat box. The latter I suspect is due to the styling of the hlist class going missing. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:Use the [http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/ec/ edit-count tool]. [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/ec/?user=Rezonansowy&project=en.wikipedia.org click here]. Then look at the section 'Article' near the bottom. If you forget the location of the edit-count tool, there is a link to it from the bottom of your Contributions page. EdJohnston (talk) 14:59, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks! I forgot this tool's feature. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 15:09, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::: The edit-count tools appears offline; whenever I access that URL, all I get is a blank page. At least that's the case when I try to access it form behind my workplace's firewall, which wasn't so when I used it a month or so ago. -- llywrch (talk) 22:21, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::::This might be a temporary problem at wmflabs. Just now none of the tools in http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools are working for me. The edit counter was working at 15:00 on 21 October. EdJohnston (talk) 02:37, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::I get it too. --User J. Dalek (talk | contribs) 02:51, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Atsme}} Template:Do not archive until does this job; see its page for instructions. The template goes in the relevant thread, not in the archiving instructions. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:37, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{u|John of Reading}} - thank you! Atsme☯^Consult 16:05, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

In non volatile memory the data are store in digital form (+ve volt and -ve volt). if power is off then data are erase because data are store in the form of digital(+ve volt and -ve volt).

THAN WHY DATA ARE STORE AFTER THE POWER OFF

HARE KRISHNA RAI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.118.61.166 (talk) 15:39, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:You want Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. This is the place to discuss site features. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:47, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Allow me to explain. It's stored on someone else's computer (the Wikipedia servers). --User J. Dalek (talk | contribs) 02:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:Well, why do you think that toollabs is "completely down"? #wikimedia-labs on Freenode IRC or the [https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/labs-l mailing list] might be more places to ask. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:55, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:* For about 5 hours yesterday I got an "Internal Error" when I tried to use any tool hosted on toollabs (even the page that is suppose to list all the tools had no tools listed). Whatever the cause was, it resolved itself. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 03:13, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Hm, why do I [http://i.imgur.com/zyHnVCx.png see the same page twice] in my Meta-Wiki watchlist? Aren't pages supposed to appear once per watchlist? Is that some kind of a bug? As a note, this appeared today, newer saw it before. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 19:58, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:I am encountering something similar on Commons. Has the preferences checkbox "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" always been there? It seems that (on Commons) it has been switched on, whereas I think it was off previously (assuming it was an option prior to now). Wikipedia also has this checkbox, but it defaults to off. Dustin (talk) 20:01, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::Just twice - is that all? I see m:Meetup/English South Coast 1 59 times, all are different edits. But that's what I would expect, since it's been edited 59 times in the last 30 days. BTW "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" has been an option for as long as I've been around (over 5 years), and yes I do have it set - otherwise I miss stuff. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Regardless, I am suddenly seeing multiple edits on single articles with Commons (rather than just the most recent edit), and the checkbox is suddenly checked (which is why I thought it might be connected). See http://i.imgur.com/ZSurJEY.png. The help desk at Commons appears no less than 29 times total. In any case, is the proper place to discuss this? Is there a better place to continue talking about this? Dustin (talk) 20:11, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

{{done}}, I've just deployed a [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/167884 configuration patch] that fixed this. Cheers, Hoo man (talk) 20:43, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

: Thanks, now it works as expected. By the way, "expand watchlist to show all changes" [http://i.imgur.com/QcXZac9.png wasn't ticked] in my preferences, I've disabled that option long time ago. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 20:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

It just gives me a blank page. I checked the source code and there is nothing there. At all.

How come this hasn't been noticed until now? Fix it ASAP!

Kiazore (talk) 00:33, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:The links I examined were made with {{tl|Bibleverse}} or {{tl|Bibleverse-lb}}. It was reported an hour ago at Template talk:Bibleverse#Broken again ? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:48, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Here's a reduced example:

With this code:

Foo

We get this output:

But with this code:

Foo

We get this output:

Is there a better way of constructing the HTML to get the proper width? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 00:46, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Those extra {{tag|td|s}} tags get converted to {{tag|td|content={{void}}}} which is an empty cell.

Foo

I'm not sure if this is done by HTML Tidy or {{sanitizer.php}}.

The issue is that there is no table width set:

Foo

--  Gadget850 ^talk 01:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:Hmm, with the main table width set to 100%, the table extends off the screen for me, but a width of 80% gets it looking right. Setting the width to 80% inline doesn't work for small message boxes, though. Looking through MediaWiki:Common.css, it seems that that "messagebox" is the class to use to set the proper width, as it has a "width: 80%" rule. And everything appears to work if we have a main table tag of

::I'm sure it can be figured out, but it involves digging through volumes of HTML specifications on table behaviour. But as Gadget850 mentions, using the messagebox class will solve the problem. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:11, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:Can you point me to a live example of where this hack is actually needed? Because if there aren't any, I'm simply going to remove this hack. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:33, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{replyto|Edokter}} It's currently used in Template:Article history - search the source for "". But we will be able to remove the hack if we add the messagebox class to top table element. I've already fixed that in Module:Article history, which isn't yet deployed. (It will probably be ready in a week or two.) I haven't seen it used anywhere else, but you never know. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 09:15, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:::{{U|Mr. Stradivarius}}, that's not what I mean... are there any instances of {{tl|Article history}} being used on any page that require this hack? If there aren't any live examples, then this is just a case of overzealous preventative coding. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:58, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

{{od|3}} {{replyto|Edokter}} Ah, I see. Yes, it happens on quite a few pages, for example Talk:Artificial intelligence with the following invocation:

{{Article history
|action1=PR
|action1date=12:27, 6 August 2009
|action1link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Artificial intelligence/archive1
|action1result=reviewed
|action1oldid=306387790
}}

If I remove the hack from the expanded wikitext, it looks like this:

There were a few other instances in the test cases too. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 10:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:I've 'normalized' the hack to remove the invalid tag. I don't quite how to handle this otherwise. Using the messagbox class may intoduce some redundant CSS, so I'd like to avoid that as well. Perhaps just add an empty cell for now as the template does now? -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 14:13, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::Probably better would be to set the module to set an inline style of "width:80%" for large templates, and omit this style for small templates (and add the "mbox-small" class). That's more readable than adding an extra empty cell, although it is a bit of a hack in and of itself. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 14:32, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Does anyone has any idea, why :File:US Navy 120209-N-XD935-302 Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Shane Tuck, assigned to the Expeditionary Combat Camera Underwater Photo Team, c.jpg won't display on the English Wikipedia? Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 13:29, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:It works at full size but a thumb gives another url than at Commons. I don't know why. The thumb example below gives the url:

:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/US_Navy_120209-N-XD935-302_Mass_Communication_Specialist_1st_Class_Shane_Tuck%2C_assigned_to_the_Expeditionary_Combat_Camera_Underwater_Photo_Team%2C_c.jpg/300px-thumbnail.jpg

:Clicking it says "The given path of the specified thumbnail is incorrect". At Commons the same code gives the url:

:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/US_Navy_120209-N-XD935-302_Mass_Communication_Specialist_1st_Class_Shane_Tuck%2C_assigned_to_the_Expeditionary_Combat_Camera_Underwater_Photo_Team%2C_c.jpg/220px-US_Navy_120209-N-XD935-302_Mass_Communication_Specialist_1st_Class_Shane_Tuck%2C_assigned_to_the_Expeditionary_Combat_Camera_Underwater_Photo_Team%2C_c.jpg

:Note the file name is repeated in the url. It displays the image at Commons and also when you click it. I think the same code at Wikipedia and Commons usually gives the same image url. Here are two others from :Category:Featured pictures with the same error:

• :File:1801 Cary Map of the East Indies and Southeast Asia ( Singapore, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, Philippines - Geographicus - EastIndies-cary-1801.jpg
• :File:Antoine-François Callet - Louis XVI, roi de France et de Navarre (1754-1793), revêtu du grand costume royal en 1779 - Google Art Project.jpg

:PrimeHunter (talk) 14:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

thumb

::Could it be because the filename has comma(s)? -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:20, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Edokter}} I think you're on to something - I came across another file with the same problem, and it also contains commans (:File:1801 Cary Map of the East Indies and Southeast Asia ( Singapore, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, Philippines - Geographicus - EastIndies-cary-1801.jpg). ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Whoop, I somehow entirely missed that PrimeHunter already provided that example. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:Same problem at Elizabeth II#Continuing evolution of the Commonwealth for :File:Queen Elizabeth II and the Prime Ministers of the Commonwealth Nations, at Windsor Castle (1960 Commonwealth Prime Minister's Conference).jpg. DrKiernan (talk) 21:36, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::The pattern is files with filenames between 140-159 bytes long. It appears to be due to an accidental change in a setting when a different setting was changed. It should be fixed soonish (Definitely by tomorrow once people at wmf offices are at work). Bawolff (talk) 02:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::{{resolved}} User:Cscott got the change deployed. Issue should be resolved now. If any pages still have broken images on them, doing a ?action=purge to the page should fix it. Bawolff (talk) 03:09, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

: I see that you've cured it by including the http:// which weren't there before. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:: Yes, because evidently I was looking in the wrong places for them. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 16:47, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

:404 error also with the edit count tool, which has been occurring for many hours. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::404 continues. {{U|TParis}} says his "access is apparently screwed up", and recommends asking {{U|Cyberpower678}} (last enwiki post 6 weeks ago) or {{U|Hedonil}} (last post on dewiki 7 weeks ago), for whom I left a message. Is there something "political" going on with this important toolset? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 11:06, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::My attention has been diverted here. Let me see what's going on.—cyberpower _{Temporarily Online}^{Trick or Treat} 11:43, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

• My attempts to connect to labs have been unsuccessful. There's apparently more than dead tools going on here. "A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond.". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyberpower678 (talk • contribs) 11:51, 23 October 2014‎
• {{fixed}}

: Yes it is known, see {{phab|74104}}. Darkdadaah (talk) 14:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

• {{fixed}}—cyberpower _{Temporarily Online}^{Trick or Treat} 14:09, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

The Articles for Creation project is particularly backlogged right now, with over 3,000 articles waiting. In order to attract help from subject specialists, I hoped to post this preconfigured search, which looks only in draft space:

{{Search prefixes

| small = no

| header1 = Find Articles for Creation in Draft: space

| description =

| searchbuttonlabel =

| header2 =

| Draft:

|

}}

By asking editors to type in the words "Review waiting" and adding their own keywords, such as "professor" or "football", editors should be able to see if there are any drafts of interest. This only works in the New Search, because the original one won't find text inside templates. However, pages keep appearing on the list which have already been accepted and are really redirects. These obviously don't have the words "Review waiting", although they likely once did.

I reported the problem before and ^demon was checking it out. I seem to remember that the problem before had to do with revision timestamps of the redirects. At the time ^demon ran a fix on the old redirects, but the problem seems to have reappeared.

My questions are:

1. Has the problem been fixed, or are new redirects which are being incorrectly searched by the New Search engine still being created?
2. I have access to AWB, and I should be able to find these redirects with it. If I made a small change that would add one new revision to each one, would they then no longer be picked up incorrectly by the search? (This would be an annoying way to fix the problem.)
3. I have used the "Search prefixes" template to create the search box, but it doesn't have options for adding some default text, such as "Review waiting", which is why it has to be manually inserted each time. Is there another template that is more appropriate for this use, and still allows the searcher to add their own search words as well, or can an existing template be adapted to do this? —Anne Delong (talk) 19:18, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:There isn't any. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:29, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::There is one; I've seen it used. --NE2 21:33, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::I think there is but it wasn't well received and I can't remember it. --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:35, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::: Is it {{tl|refn}}? See WP:REFNEST. – Margin1522 (talk) 21:46, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::No. I wrote that. --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:50, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:A simple search finds {{tl|ref supports}}, which clarifies the part that is supported by a ref by repeating the claim inside the ref tag. It is not used in any articles though. There is {{tl|cn span}} to highlight a piece of text which requires a citation, though there is no easily found equivalent for texts with reference. SiBr₄ (talk) 22:03, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::Aha, I think I remember seeing {{tl|cn span}}. Is there a reason this couldn't be done for simple citations (even if just at the editing level to make it clear to other editors what is explicitly sourced)? --NE2 22:14, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:The {{para|quote}} parameter of the cite templates allows people to specify exactly what part of the source supports the text. This is much more flexible than marking what text is supported by which sources. If that were standard, every article would become a tangled mess of spaghetti code. Using {{para|quote}} is extremely valuable and I wish more editors would do it. Jason Quinn (talk) 22:23, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::How do I use it for a map? :) (Actually, in the case I'm thinking of currently, it's fairly obvious that a 1935 map can only support that a secondary route already existed, not that it was extended in 1942 to replace a primary route.) --NE2 22:37, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:A similar q was raised on this page about three months ago, see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 127#Requested new citation template feature: Hover the mouse over a footnote marker and the supported text is highlighted. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:58, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{phab|20231|label=provide a way to specify what text/statement is supported by a {{tag|ref|o}} block}}. --  Gadget850 ^talk 20:39, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:Can you check if the CharInsert gadget is still enabled here? -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 07:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::Hi {{u|Edokter}}, yes, that was the first thing I checked. It is enabled. Victoria (tk) 11:42, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Try to clear your entire cache. Both your examples are from "Wiki markup". Some users haven't noticed there is a drop-down box with other options. Do you have no box at all? Do you have JavaScript enabled in your browser? If you don't see a "[hide]" option at #toc then you probably don't have JavaScript and CharInsert doesn't run. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:55, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Hi {{u|PrimeHunter}}, I was thinking I might need to try a cache clearing. No, I don't have anything below the edit window except the field for the edit summary, the buttons for minor edit and to watch this page, and below the buttons to save, preview, show changes. Nothing else. Yes, JS enabled (and hide is visible). Nothing has changed since I last edited except the characters disappeared (which is annoying because I rely on them). Victoria (tk) 12:00, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::Does it make a difference to log out? What is your skin at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::No, I always log out. I've cleared caches and restarted and still nothing there. Safari 6.1.6 btw. Victoria (tk) 12:11, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::I mean whether you have CharInsert when you are logged out. Your skin is the first selection at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering. Are other gadgets working? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:24, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::Interesting. Yes, the characters are there at the bottom when I open a page while logged out. The other gadgets are working. I have Monobook skin btw. Switching skins didn't make a difference; still gone. Victoria (tk) 12:33, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::::Try to disable CharInsert at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering, save settings, enable it again and save again. Do you have it at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&useskin=cologneblue? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:54, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::::I tried the disabling and enabling before coming here; didn't work. Interestingly it's there for Cologne Blue and Modern, not on Monobook and Vector. Victoria (tk) 13:00, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Try whether it works in MonoBook if you blank User:Victoriaearle/monobook.js (you may lose other things but can revert later). PrimeHunter (talk) 13:15, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Ah, it's back! I'll leave the monobook.js blanked for a bit. Victoria (tk) 13:53, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::{{u|PrimeHunter}}, thanks a lot for the trouble shooting on this - very helpful! I've put back User:Dr pda/prosesize.js, and User:GregU/dashes.js,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Victoriaearle/monobook.js&curid=26330595&action=history]. Both work and the characters are still rendering at the bottom of the page, so it was something else I had there. Anyway, thanks again. Victoria (tk) 15:13, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

• ...For more information follow the category link.
• Use this rcat to tag...

and now it looks like this:

• ...For more information follow the category link. ** Use this rcat to tag...

Does this mean that all of the templates that have this type of code will need to be fixed? or has something else broken that I don't know about? – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 00:04, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

: Okay, I see that two meta templates, {{tl|Redirect template}} (recently edited) and {{tl|Redirect template/core}} have just been converted to Lua, which may account for what I'm seeing in many of the rcats. – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 00:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Paine Ellsworth}} Fixed. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:43, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thank you beyond words, MJ! – Paine  01:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

{{done}} Works again. Paradoctor (talk) 20:44, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:You can hide them completely with this in {{yourcss}}:

.editnotice-area {display: none;}

:PrimeHunter (talk) 11:40, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:* That seems to work – thank you. Is it possible to float rather than hide them? (I experimented with replacing the display:none style, but to no (apparent) avail.) Regards, Sardanaphalus (talk) 09:08, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:::The Group notice / Page notice links only appear when editing a page. If I view the page source when editing, I see that they are inside a {{tag|div|o|params=class="editnotice-link" style="clear: both; float: right; margin: 0px 0.8em; padding: 0; line-height: 1em;"}} so it's already floated. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::::If you want to hide the links usually but still want a relatively easy way to see them when wanted then you can move the code from Special:MyPage/common.css (which is used on all skins) to Special:MyPage/vector.css (assuming your skin is Vector). When you want to see the links on an edit page you can specify another skin by for example manually adding &useskin=monobook or &useskin=modern to the url. You can also temporarily save another skin at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering but doing that and going back afterwards will prbably take longer. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:05, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

{{#invoke:Wikidata|getDateValue|P577|{{{published|FETCH_WIKIDATA}}}}}

--Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 20:17, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:Have you reported this at Module talk:Wikidata? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:51, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::Reported. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 12:18, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Is it a template problem or something from my end I've missed?

Amortias (T)(C) 09:33, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:When you see a link instead of a transclusion, and the page is in {{Cl|Pages where template include size is exceeded}}, it's an indication that the page that should be transcluded is too large. The admin dashboard is itself built up from a number of transclusions, so you need to see which of those is very large, and whether it can be cut down - ideally by fixing the problems that are reported on that page. My suspicion is WP:UAA. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:50, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::Ok cheers for that, I've made a request at WP:AN for someone or someones to take a look at clearing the backlog. Amortias (T)(C) 10:03, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

• {{Diff|Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention/Bot|631058847|631058586|this edit}} removed 9,438 bytes of unneeded code. Did it take it out of {{Cl|Pages where template include size is exceeded}} and if so, could we possibly get {{U|DeltaQuad}} to remove the color codes from the bot's signature if it is going to be causing system errors and putting the templates into that category? — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:54, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:*I have reduced the signature from 189 to 96 characters. {{ping|Technical 13}} while I highly doubt at the end of the day that this will really fix the issue (the issue is the backlog, not my signatures). It just allows for 9KB of additional backlog to pile up before someone gets to it. So that is really what needs fixing at the end of the day, not a signature. -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 17:18, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:** {{Ping|DeltaQuad}}, I don't disagree but it helps for now... :) Thank you. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 17:44, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:I can see them (FF, MonoBook). — HHHIPPO 12:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::I see them too. The HTML includes

and Firefox gets the tooltips from those title= attributes. {{replyto|DePiep}} Which browser are you using? --Redrose64 (talk) 13:13, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Checking things. (Ff, Safari atop WinXP; login/logout) -DePiep (talk) 13:21, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Checked: Ff 32.0.3 and Safari v? both atop WinXP. Did Restart computer, Ff cache cleanup.

::::Checked page: WP:TFD (via).

::::Icons checked: yellow padlock (protection), question mark (help-page notice), main wiki-globe (top-left)

::::All icons always have cursor-change (indicating hyperlink) and click works (opens hyperlink). (OK)

::::Wiki-globe always shows tooltip. (OK)

::::When logged-out: all icons show tooltip. (OK)

::::When logged in (User:DePiep): WP:TFD page icons padlock and question mark do not show tooltip. Not in Safari, not in Ff. (Not OK).

::::I had enabled beta-:mw:Beta Features/Hovercards. When disabled this and logout, login (checked: is disabled indeed). Then the tooltip shows as expected. (OK)

::::Conclude: Likely hovercards-related. ping {{ping|Deskana (WMF)}} (lead at mw). Any more tests to do? -DePiep (talk) 14:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::::ping {{U|Hhhippo}}, {{U|Redrose64}}. -DePiep (talk) 16:15, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::I think you're right, and {{phab|70417}} might be relevant. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:28, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:Why would you want to? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:47, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::Well, as I understand this, we do this for speedy deletion nominated pages, so attack pages and copyvios don't appear on search engines. I also tried to do this with {{tl|Not English}} since I suspect spammers sometimes post in the wrong language wiki to delay scrutiny of their spam pages. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 16:56, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:You don't. If an article is so bad that search engines shouldn't be able to see it, it should be speedily deleted. If a tag could noindex an article, you'd have people trying to sneak that tag into articles that make them look bad. Jackmcbarn (talk) 17:09, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

.mw-disambig { //for links to disambiguation pages

background-color: #ff9191;

}

.mw-redirect, .mw-redirect:visited { //for links to redirects

color: green;

}

When I have a redirect to disambig only the mw-redirect class works. So my question is: how to make a different style for links to redirect to disambig pages, if it's possible?

And (also, if it's possible) how to get a different style for mw-disambig class included in some other class (let's say, I don't want to display backgrounded links to disambigs within hatnote template, where the class hatnote is used). I hope that somebody catched what I mean :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 17:22, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:If you're putting it in your js page, I'm surprised that any of it works. The code above is not JavaScript, it is CSS, and so should be in your .css page. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:01, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

::User:Anomie/linkclassifier may be helpful. --  Gadget850 ^talk 19:23, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Redrose64, yes, of course. In my css page, not js :) I sometimes write such stupid things :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 00:53, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::::OK then, since it's code placed on a .css page, there are two invalid constructs there: //for links to disambiguation pages and //for links to redirects. These are invalid because CSS doesn't recognise BCPL-style end-of-line comments - the only valid comments in CSS are inline, as in /* for links to disambiguation pages */ or similar (CSS treats all newlines as if they were normal spaces, and since comments should be capable of containing spaces, a space (whether a newline or a true space) cannot be the marker for the end of a comment). --Redrose64 (talk) 11:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

• First, I'm kind of confused where you may have tried this as User:Edgars2007/common.css, User:Edgars2007/vector.css, User:Edgars2007/monobook.css, User:Edgars2007/cologneblue.css, and User:Edgars2007/modern.css don't exist. You also didn't accidentally put it on a custom .js page since User:Edgars2007/vector.js, User:Edgars2007/cologneblue.js, and User:Edgars2007/modern.js don't exist, and it's not on User:Edgars2007/monobook.js or User:Edgars2007/common.js. So, this leaves me to ask, where have you tried this that only half the .css worked? — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:52, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{u|Technical 13}}, it's in his userspace on the Latvian Wikipedia. {{ping|Edgars2007}} To apply styling to elements with two specific classes, join the class names together without whitespace: .mw-disambig.mw-redirect { markup for redirects to dab pages } As for the second question, .hatnote .mw-disambig { markup } (with space between the classes) applies to elements with class "mw-disambig" within a "hatnote" class element (replacing "markup" with some actual markup rules, obviously). SiBr₄ (talk) 14:38, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:30, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|S.tollyfield}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simon_Clark_%28novelist%29&diff=631184811&oldid=631182745 This edit] fixed it - the problem was an unclosed {{tag|ref|o}} tag before the start of the section. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:33, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

ThanksS.tollyfield (talk) 13:35, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

:IIRC the terms of the ArbCom ruling included {{oldid|Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions|496335676#Motion_on_Rich_Farmbrough_enforcement|the direction}} that you "blank userspace js pages associated with his account/s". --Redrose64 (talk) 15:07, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::That wasn't what I was asking about. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 19:02, 26 October 2014 (UTC).

:There were some fairly major changes in MediaWiki 1.25, which removed these long-deprecated items earlier this month:

• Remove mw.user.name() method. [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/111422/ 1] Use mw.user.getName() instead.
• Remove mw.user.anon() method. [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/111422/ 1] Use mw.user.isAnon() instead.
• Remove mediawiki.api methods' "ok" and "err" callback parameters. [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118733/ 2] Use the returned Promise interface instead.
• Remove mediawiki.api.category "async" parameter. [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118733/ 2] The ability to override $.ajax() to not be asynchronous has been removed. The default (asynchronous) behaviour remains. Use the Promise interface to retreive the fetched data from the API.
• Remove jquery.json module. [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/140560/ 3] Use standardised JSON.stringify and JSON.parse methods. And depend on the "json" module to ensure a polyfill is lazy-loaded for cross-browser support.

:If a script uses any of these, then it will be broken now. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:35, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

As an aside, is there an easy way to get the opposite list? (I.e. what this page calls) which would just be a summary of all the blue (and red) links?

Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Mon 11:07, wikitime= 03:07, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Unbuttered Parsnip}} (partial answer) Silion is indeed linked from User talk:Maheshkumaryadav/Archive 4 - it is inside the "Extended content" box in this section. A version of the Silion article was [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Silion deleted in 2011]. I don't know the answer to your "aside" without using AWB. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks. That explains why "An aphrodisiac" (spellings vary) was on the list too. And on close examination of other pages' lists, it seems that "ins" and "outs" are jumbled together. Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Wed 06:35, wikitime= 22:35, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:It's due to broken markup earlier in the page. Search for "to start to understand" in the wikitext, and you'll see a series of font tags changing between grey and black in a way that's rather against the rules of HTML. Apparently, the software's reaction to this was to color all the remainder of the page in grey, grey, grey and black (with black taking precedence) up until it found a sufficiently indented element, and then to render in grey, grey and grey instead. I'm not sure what the policy on fixing broken markup in archive pages is, so I'm not sure if it's for the best to fix the page or not. --ais523 13:39, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::There were quite a lot of misnested {{tag|font}} elements which spanned a {{tag|dd|c}}{{tag|dd|o}} pair; HTML Tidy made a good go of adding {{tag|font|c}} and {{tag|font|o}} where it could, but as far as I could work out, there were four that were opened but not closed, so I removed one and closed three, {{diff|Talk:American and British English spelling differences/Archive 3|prev|631322312|thus}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:02, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Right, fixing markup, categories and some other details in archives is fine. It's only the discussions you shouldn't continue. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:06, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Good work. I would have fixed it if I had seen where the problem lay. I am still mystified how this caused 'font color="gray" to kick in about a hundred lines further down the page, but I have heard that HTML Tidy is flawed. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:16, 27 October 2014 (UTC).

:It appears it was the use of {{tl|OED}} which made it kick in. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:09, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

1. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=cur&oldid=252351881| http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=cur&oldid=252351881|]
2. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=cur&oldid=252351881 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=cur&oldid=252351881]
3. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=next&oldid=252351881| http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=next&oldid=252351881|]
4. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=next&oldid=252351881 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casino_Royale_%281967_film%29&diff=next&oldid=252351881]

As you can see the only syntax changes between these examples are the diff= keyword (cur vs next) and the inclusion/exclusion of the final vertical bar. This short journey into the world of diff link syntax has left me with a few questions:

• (A) Why would the inclusion of a vertical bar (a common enough syntax within wikipedia) make such a profound difference in the results returned? Compare diff #1 to #2 and then compare diff #3 to #4 as example.
• (B) Why are the resulting page formats so radically different between #1 & #3 above when all that has changed is the diff= keyword?
• (C) Why does diff #1 not even show revision #252351881 at all? The other three examples show it in various ways?
• (D) Why are the sections so out of synch in diff #2 above? Granted a great many edits have been made between the two revisions but could these diffs not synch by section name as long as section sequence or names are not changed? Case in point look at the ==plot== and ==cast== positions between the old and new revisions.

Does any of this reflect some sort of error(s) in processing diff links? 104.32.193.6 (talk) 14:07, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:Pipes "|" are common in wikisyntax but not in url's where parameters are separated by "&" (this is general for url's and not wiki-specific). "252351881|" is not a valid revision id so "oldid=252351881|" cannot be expected to work and may give different results in different contexts. Editors sometimes mix up wikilink syntax and external link syntax and write "|" as an attempt to separate a url from text they want displayed. A space is the correct syntax. See Help:link. Good diffs can be hard to make. Section headings are just lines and can be moved around like other source lines. WP:wikEdDiff sometimes gives better diffs. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:28, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::Yes, don't bang pipes against URLs. As regards the legal values for &diff=, I put a description of this at User talk:Paine Ellsworth#Diffs and oldids which seemed to be well received. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:08, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Something's wrong with the way geographical coordinates are being displayed. It affects everything from the infobox in Paris to the table at National Register of Historic Places listings in Piute County, Utah. I understand nothing about the labyrinth of templates involved with this, but could someone knowledgeable please fix it? Ntsimp (talk) 14:44, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

{{moved from|Template talk:Infobox station#Width|Redrose64 (talk) 15:00, 27 October 2014 (UTC)}}

On the articles Pennsylvania Station (New York City) and Pennsylvania Station (1910–1963), the infobox is too big, as it is taking half of the side of the page. It looks like it's because of the {{#coordinates:}} tag. Is this localized to just these two articles, or is it a general problem with the markup of the template? – Epicgenius (talk) 14:01, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Epicgenius}} It's nothing to do with {{tlx|infobox station}}. The problem is in {{tlx|coord}}, or the module now used for that; this can be demonstrated quite simply:

::{{Coord|40.750638|N|73.993899|W|format=dms|type:railwaystation_region:US-NY_scale:10000|display=inline}}

:That should not yield exposed markup. Template:Coord was last modified by {{user|Mr. Stradivarius}}, and Module:Coordinates was last modified by {{user|MSGJ}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:21, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::The #coordinates tag as mentioned at Help:Magic_words#Other has stopped working. -- WOSlinker (talk) 14:32, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Maybe that is the root of the problem. How do we get it to work again? Epicgenius (talk) 14:38, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::::From the bug report, it looks like Wikimedia Ops is working on it now. Give it a few hours, and it will likely be working again. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 14:44, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:: {{ec|2}} This is actually a problem with the #coordinates parser function in Template:Coord, and isn't caused by anything in the module. The #coordinates code there has been the same since it was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Coord&diff=526665541&oldid=368854805 added in 2012], and it never got added to the module because it didn't play nicely with Lua. The infobox on Pennsylvania Station (1910–1963) expands to give the #coordinates code

{{#coordinates:40.7503|-73.9931|type:landmark||||||

|primary
|name=
}}

::...which just returns the invocation without processing it. Why it does this I'm not too sure - I've never looked into the details of what #coordinates does. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 14:40, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

All the settlement infoboxes have been screwed too (see San Francisco, or Athens, or Bordeaux). Someone has "cleverly" edited something somewhere which has screwed tons of infoboxes, but I can't detect where the error is coming from. Der Statistiker (talk) 14:55, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:Ah, it seems it's restored now. Really odd... Der Statistiker (talk) 14:57, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

{{moved from|User talk:WOSlinker#Finding duplicate parameters|Redrose64 (talk) 14:55, 27 October 2014 (UTC)}}

:::Has your change to Infobox Settlement broken it? When I try to change a pushpin map parameter, the map winds up looking like this. The only change I made was specifying "pushpin_label = Richburg". Any ideas? --Ken Gallager (talk) 14:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::::{{replyto|Ken Gallager}}, No, it's not {{tlx|Infobox Settlement}} - this is the same problem as described at Template talk:Infobox station#Width. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::(Moving discussion to User talk:Redrose64) --Ken Gallager (talk) 14:32, 27

{{moved from|User talk:Redrose64#Coords in Infobox settlement|I'm merely an observer --Redrose64 (talk) 14:49, 27 October 2014 (UTC)}}

Hi Redrose64, thanks for your response to my question about the coordinates problem with {{tlx|Infobox settlement}}. So what is the solution for someone like me who's just a regular user of the infobox? I see the {{tlx|Coord}} template was last changed in August, while User:WOSlinker's change to Infobox Settlement was two days ago. The problem just started cropping up this morning, after I had already made several edits to articles that use the Settlement infobox. Thanks, --Ken Gallager (talk) 14:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:It's a system wide issue, see bug 72559. -- WOSlinker (talk) 14:38, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

{{moved from|Template talk:Infobox UK place#Big problem|Redrose64 (talk) 15:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)}}

Something is wrong with this template, such that any time an article containing it is edited, a bunch of visible code appears at the beginning of the article. I noticed this when I edited Cleator; and to check that it wasn't just a problem with the infobox's implementation in that particular article, I performed null edits on Aberfoyle, Stirling and Abergavenny, and they too got messed up. I've tried to trace the problem back through the template's history, but I just don't know enough about coding to find out what's wrong. Could Frietjes or Sardanaphalus or someone else who understands this template take a look? It's used in a lot of articles, and there's a pretty great potential for disruption. Deor (talk) 14:31, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:It's not just an issue with this template, see Template_talk:Infobox_station#Width. -- WOSlinker (talk) 14:35, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

• I've just tried some testing and am now wondering if the problem is caused by how and/or which parameters are given to {{tl|Coord}} by this template's "Co-ordinates for top of page" section..? Sardanaphalus (talk) 15:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::As WOSlinker said above, this seems to be a system-wide problem with {{#coordinates:}} calls. I assume folks are working on it. (See also WP:VP/T#Coordinates display appears to be broken.) Deor (talk) 15:10, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::* Understood – and I now see the "Tracked in Bugzilla" template. Sardanaphalus (talk) 15:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

{{moved from|Template talk:Infobox settlement#Coordinates display|Redrose64 (talk) 15:18, 27 October 2014 (UTC)}}

This template is displaying coordinates like the following:

52°22′N 4°54′E{{#coordinates:52|22|N|4|54|E|type:city(813562)_region:NL|| |primary |name=

}}

Examples: Amsterdam, Acapulco, Alexandria, Atlanta, Berlin, Brussels

Is it related to the most recent edit related to duplicate parameters? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_settlement&diff=631102254&oldid=622468730] ——Rich jj (talk) 14:41, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:Okay, apparently this is a bigger issue than just this template, affecting any use of Template:Coord. Template talk:Infobox station#Width pointed this out to me, along with a link to the [https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72559 tracked issue in Bugzilla]. ——Rich jj (talk) 14:48, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

{{#coordinates:53.5595 |-0.0680

|region:GB_type:city(87574)
||||||

|primary |name= }}

Even though (a) I'm fairly sure this isn't a recent screw-up in Edit mode, since I see the same thing in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grimsby&oldid=294980356 2009 versions] of the article, OTOH (b) I don't get this error with other ledes with coords in them (e.g. Los Angeles, London), so I don't think it's my browser, either.

Anyone else seeing this? Any ideas? It Is Me Here ^{t / c} 15:01, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:This is the system-wide problem that's the topic of the section immediately above. Deor (talk) 15:05, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::Ops and devs are aware. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::The bugzilla page is demonstrating that Wikivoyage is having the same problems, so it's clearly not something that can be fixed locally: we'll have to depend on the ops and devs. Nyttend (talk) 15:28, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:It should be already fixed. Purge to check? --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:38, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::It is. Thanks so much for the rapid work! Nyttend (talk) 15:42, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Maury Markowitz}} Put the note and its ref inside {{tlx|efn}}, see for example note {{dummyref|a}} here. There are less-easy ways, using {{#tag:ref|...}} --Redrose64 (talk) 21:14, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::See also WP:REFNEST; the issues and limits are noted there. More details might help. --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:15, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::St. Joseph's Catholic Church (Egypt, Ohio) uses a slightly different format, the one I've always found easiest: just put {{cref|a}} at the spot where the note would go, and then in your Notes section, put {{cnote|a|Type the contents of the note here, including the citation}} Perhaps it's not exactly SFN, but the coding looks simpler to me than the {{tl|efn}} that Redrose is using. Nyttend (talk) 22:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::::{{replyto|Nyttend}} Since you need to specify the letter in both templates, it's more complicated than {{tlx|efn}} - where I just put {{efn|Type the contents of the note here, including the citation}} (one parameter, not counting those in the citation) at the spot where the note would go, and then in the Notes section, put {{notelist}} (no parameters). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:23, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Okay, I was misunderstanding; I see better now. Nyttend (talk) 22:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:There is an ancient bug about stuff in between ref tags. It would be nice if that could get some attention from the devs. {{Smiley}} All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:18, 27 October 2014 (UTC).

Ok this looks perfect. Thanks again VP gurus! Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:23, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Redrose64}}- I managed to get most of these working great. However, if you look at AI Mk. IV radar#Mk. I you'll notice that there is one that complains about no ref content in spite of it seemingly being identical to all the others. Look for the words "a small amount". Any ideas? Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{replyto|Maury Markowitz}} The text of this footnote contains an equals sign, so it needs special treatment. See the last part of Template:Efn#Usage. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:08, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:::LOLZ, I'll fix that! :-) Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:31, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:Where is the "revision history statistics link" (please paste the actual link when you talk about a link)? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:00, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::It's at "External tools" in page histories at the English Wikipedia for users with en or en-gb as language. It's made by MediaWiki:Histlegend and goes to https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/articleinfo. Xtools have been down for long periods in the last weeks but are currently up again. The Xtools problems are discussed in several threads here. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:31, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

• I applied for few other positions. {{Smiley}} --Tito☸Dutta 16:10, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:Yes, please see WP:BOWN for recent comments. We are not blocking at this time. — xaosflux ^Talk 03:35, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:That's likely a DNS goof. There is occasionally reason to have separate {{mxt|www.something.com}} and {{mxt|something.com}} servers, but the {{mxt|www.something.com}} is almost always the one that is commonly used by the public. I'll ask them. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 11:13, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::I've also posted about it at [https://getsatisfaction.com/jewishencyclopedia/topics/www-jewishencyclopedia-com-no-longer-works their Feedback site]. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:07, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Reported again to a wider audience. If anyone knows anyone at the org that runs the site, please let them know. Links on the web that point to the www... address outnumber those that point to just the domain by about 10:1. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:55, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::{{Ping|Liadmalone}} It took some doing, but it's been {{Fixed}}. {{URL|www.jewishencyclopedia.com}} works again. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 07:27, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Thank you. In the meantime, if I'm not mistaking, User:Matanya created a BOT which was supposed to change each of the old broken links into the new ones with the "www". Apparently they both work now. Liadmalone (talk) 08:27, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:A few days? Toolserver's been down for nigh on four months. Permanently. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:46, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::I've been able to get lists of contributors quite recently, though. Perhaps from another link? SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:57, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::The replacement tools should be at https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikisense/ , although it looks as if they're having problems. (And inconveniant typos.) Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (banter) @ 21:00, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php redirects to https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/articleinfo/. The toolserver redirect seems to work but the target doesn't. All Xtools have been unstable for weeks. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:50, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Thanks for the replies. I haven't followed what has gone on with these tools, but things that we've relied on for a long time keep disappearing. Is there someone in the Wikimedia Foundation dealing with it, or is it not a Foundation issue? SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:57, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Well, {{u|SlimVirgin }} there's Toolserver replacements, started in July, and a whole lot of threads on the VP Technical here about that same time.— Maile (talk) 23:24, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::Thank you, {{U|Maile66|Maile}}. It's hard to see what's what. Is there currently a way to access the list of contributors to an article? SlimVirgin ^(talk) 23:44, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::The tested Xtools are currently working again. That means the redirect at http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php also works. I don't know whether https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikisense/ has ever worked. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:36, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::Thanks, {{u|PrimeHunter}}, I can get http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php to work now, as a redirect to https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/articleinfo/ SlimVirgin ^(talk) 02:13, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

{{od}}

Optics

Just to document a related symptom, the statistics for an article are back, as well. They went missing at just about the same timeframe that @SlimVirgin was asking about the missing list of contributors. I just noticed a little blue hat which I now see as the first item in the statistics, and the tooltip that appears when I hover the cursor over it identifies the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/agent/config.php little blue hat] as Xagent configuration --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 11:36, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

My belated thanks to Hedonil for sharing [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hedonil/XTools these XTools]. 12:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

• {{u|SlimVirgin }}, responding to your question and repeating what has been said above re: [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hedonil/XTools Hedonil/XTools].

:If you copy the below to your .js userspace:

:

mw.loader.load( '//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hedonil/XTools/XTools.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript' );

:this tool produces (at least on Modern skin) a single line at the top of the article that is a little recap of what you want. Click on "see full page statistics" on that line, and it takes you to a breakdown of many things, one of which is all of the contributors. — Maile (talk) 14:50, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{u|Maile66}}, thank you! That's really useful. The "see full page stats" link goes to https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/articleinfo SlimVirgin ^(talk) 02:18, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

• {{u|SlimVirgin}}, you can also check out [http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl?lang=en.wikipedia&page= http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl?lang=en.wikipedia&page=] to see if it can help meet your needs. The list of article contributors with their basic stats are generated in the very last section of the resulting page. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:09, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:*Thanks, {{u|George Orwell III|George}}. That's the one I used to use, but I thought it had disappeared. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 02:20, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:That's one of the very irritating features of make-work edits by bots. In Special:Preferences your Watchlist can be configured. If "Hide bot edits from the watchlist" is enabled, your watchlist will not list a page where the last edit was by a bot. If it is not enabled, a decent-sized watchlist will be mercilessly spammed by bots. In other words, there is no good setting. Johnuniq (talk) 00:05, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::The setting that would be most useful is "If a bot made the last edit, then show the previous contribution in my watchlist (exactly as if the bot had never edited anything)". But that doesn't exist, and there are probably lots of people ready to tell us why it never well (performance reasons). WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::: That's {{phab|11790}}. It probably needs someone to find time to look at it. Anomie⚔ 11:24, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:The edit counter is xtools. See the thread above named "Xtools / edit counter". It does load for me but takes about 15 seconds or so. If some pages don't load at all, please provide examples. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 20:28, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:: These pages are either not loading or taking lots of time to load [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/pcount/?user=Titodutta&project=en.wikipedia.org EditCount], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/autoedits/?project=en.wikipedia.org&begin=&end=&user=Titodutta semi-automated edits] and almost every Wikimedia Labs page (user's deails: Kolkata, India, Firefox 32.0.3, Win 7, 1.31 Mbps d/l speed). It took 40 seconds for me to load edit counter (now after midnight, I can't open it in office hours/daytime). --Tito☸Dutta 20:39, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::: Edit Count (Contributions > Edit Count) seems to be up and running again, although 'running' is clearly too positive a term. 'Crawling' would be more accurate as it also takes 40 seconds to load my edit count page.--Wolbo (talk) 16:33, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:I would guess this is due to performance reasons. Watchlists function from the recent changes database table which has that limitation. I guess it could be considered a bug, but not one that I'd expect to see resolved. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 17:08, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks for your answer. Opus33 (talk) 21:08, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::::mw:Manual:$wgRCMaxAge is set to 30 days for Wikimedia wikis in http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php which says $wgRCMaxAge = 30 * 86400;. See also bugzilla:6341. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Should a maintenance category or a bot task be created that tags these templates somehow? Is there a valid reason to have the {{para|name}} parameter fail to match the actual name of the template? I read the documentation for the Navbox template, and it looks like {{para|name}} should always be set to the name of the template, so why is this parameter user-editable at all? I imagine there is some clever explanation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:16, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:If you change {{navbox to {{#invoke:navbox|navbox, then the name parameter is no longer necessary at all. I think we should take that route, rather than making an effort to keep all of them in sync. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks for the tip. So how do we locate these broken Navboxen in the first place? – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:08, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:::We can't find the broken ones on-wiki. We'd have to search through a database dump. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::::I suggested it with no success at Wikipedia talk:Database reports#Navboxes with wrong name parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:59, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Why don't we just get a bot to change all invocations of {{navbox to {{#invoke:navbox|navbox? We could do that once, then deprecate Template:Navbox so that it wouldn't be transcluded in the future. That would avoid the need to look at database dumps entirely. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 12:11, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::That would still leave a number of wrapper templates such as {{tl|Navbox musical artist}} needing the name param. -- WOSlinker (talk) 12:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Good point. To get the name automatically, we would need to convert those wrapper templates to Lua as well, which means some more thought is needed. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 14:34, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::I've been doing some experimenting, and I've found a way to pass the template name through automatically to wrapper templates without converting them to Lua. It involves a simple module like Module:User:Mr. Stradivarius/Parent title, which can be used in a template to get that template's name, even when it is being called from a different page. That name can then be passed through to the wrapper template, which in turn can pass it through to Module:Navbox. Just converting the wrapper templates to Lua would be cleaner, though, and probably not too much work. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 14:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::Also, just because wrapper templates would still need a name parameter needn't stop us from converting {{navbox to {{#invoke:navbox|navbox, as long as the {{para|name}} parameter is still respected in the module. It would just mean that only wrapper templates and templates that call them would need to worry about setting a name. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 15:04, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::The name parameter is still respected. Actually, I think I might try to convince Brad or Tim to expose all ancestor frames to Lua, but I'm not sure if they'll go for it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:49, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

1. In the Wikipedia search field, type the name of a page that is redirected, e.g. type "mona lisa", which redirects you to "Mona Lisa".
2. Click on the "Redirected from" link at the top of the article to go to the redirect page.
3. Click the browser's Back button.
4. A line of text "Jump to: navigation, search" appears at the top of the article, but disappears as soon as you click anywhere on the article.

109.145.182.239 (talk) 02:41, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:: At first glance, it seems like that line's .CSS styling is set somewhere to overflow:hidden; height:0px; rather than display:none; in an attempt to "hide" the line until needed. When exactly that is suppose be, I can't say. Personally, I've never actually seen that line rendered "intentionally" in all my wiki-travels (well, at least not under the monobook or vector skins that is) but its always been there in the underlying HTML as far as I can remember.

Add to that the fact back [button] caching under a secure (https://) wiki mark-up & IE is 'not likely' to come off without a hitch (see IE11's F12 Developer Tools if you're familiar; it sez --> DOM7011: The code on this page disabled back and forward caching. For more information, see: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=291337 File: index.php) and of course things like that "ghost text" on back or forward are bound to occur. -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:18, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Users sometimes report seeing the line in different circumstances. I see it in Firefox if I click on "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" and then press Tab. See also Talk:Main Page/Archive 181#Did something change? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:01, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

There are [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=insource%3A%2F\%3Ccenter\%3E%2F&fulltext=Search 49,680] use cases of {{tag|center|o}} across all Wikipedia articles. Finally, please see [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMars&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0 the page] from W3C validator on Mars. There are {{red|125 Errors}}, we really need to do something with it.

Regards,

--Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 10:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:I don't really see the case for ditching the center tag in favour of a center css class. yes, the tag is deprecated, but the reason for deprecation is that it's a non-semantic tag. Replacing a non-semantic tag with a non semantic css class would be equally bad busywork. I am in favour of replacing current uses of the center tag with semantic classes, but that's cumbersome in mediawiki. mw:Requests for comment/Allow styling in templates could help move that along - I hope User:Brion finds the time to work on that. Replacing one wrong now with an equally wrong alternative doesn't help us here. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:18, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::When cleaning up an article, I often use HTML validation to detect duplicate IDs and other issues. The use of obsolete HTML makes it more difficult to see and resolve issues that are really broken.

::Wholesale replacement of {{tag|center|o}} would not be bad, but I have found a number of uses where it is inappropriate or redundant, such as enclosing a table that is 100% width.

::We currently have five obsolete HTML elements that are allowed:

::* {{tag|big}} → {{tl|big}}

::* {{tag|center}} → {{tl|center}}

::* {{tag|tt}} → {{tag|code}}

::* {{tag|strike}} → {{tag|s}}

::* {{tag|font}} → {{tl|font}}

::I recently cleaned up an article where the {{tag|font|o}} tags were setting the content to black, thus it was totally redundant. --  Gadget850 ^talk 12:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::So, it's time to start a big migration project. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 13:45, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::That a validator catches the center tags is a good thing. That it doesn't catch the center templates is a bad thing. Tricking the validator into accepting something bad (like center templates) is a worse thing. If you do that. Inappropriate use (like center on 100% width elements) must be removed, not replaced. Silencing the warning on validation might be a better approach, until we can solve this structurally. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:19, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

• I support all except replacing {{Tag|tt}} with {{Tag|code}} as it is sometimes more appropriate to replace it with {{Tag|kbd}} or with just a span with some css. It has to do with the backgrounds and other formatting associated with each tag. I've been cleaning up as many of these as I see anyways and have been requesting editors using them in signatures to update their signatures as well. I'd be happy to run a bot through to clean up what I can. I know I can do big, center, and strike. Like I said about tt, it isn't consistent with what an appropriate replacement is so can't be bot replaced and I've had difficulties with trying to replace the font tags reliably with bot edits so I skip those as well. My skin.css makes all of these tags (and a couple more IIRC) obvious, so I am having no difficulties finding them. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::You are correct. And there are a number of articles with code samples that should not be changed. --  Gadget850 ^talk 13:58, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::They're placed inside {{Tag|pre}} or other tags/templates, so no problem, I think. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 14:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{Ping|Technical 13}} User talk:Technical 13#cellpadding, cellspacing, align, valign, width, border. Helder 15:36, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:See also Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 112#RfC: Should deprecated/invalid/unsupported HTML tags be discouraged?. Helder 15:36, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:It's important to remember wikitext != HTML. Legoktm (talk) 19:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{ping|Legoktm}} What does that mean? --  Gadget850 ^talk 20:42, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::I think that it means that just because some HTML element is deprecated or marked as obsolete by W3C, doesn't necessarily mean that it is deprecated or obsolete Wikimarkup. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:18, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::That is an empty statement. In MediaWiki land, some HTML is whitelisted, but has no relation to wikitext whatsoever. If HTML tags are deprecated, it means just that, and we should no longer use it, or even allow it. The only other option is to declare these deprecated HTML tags to be wiki markup, in which case we must stranslate them to valid HTML5/CSS. I am not a fan of that option, but removing them from the whitelist is worse. But at some point, MediaWiki/Wikipedia will have to stop emitting obsolete HTML one way or the other. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 22:04, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::I have been going through and cleaning up {{tag|center|o}}. In many instances I have been removing it altogether, where used

::::* to center a table, as this may conflict with the table markup. For example, {{tl|clade}}, {{tl|ahnentafel5}} and {{tl|family tree/start}} have a {{para|style}} parameter.

::::* to center text in a cell where the table class is wikitable which applies a CSS rule to center text.

::::* to center templates such as {{tl|gallery}} which have an {{para|align}} parameter

::::--  Gadget850 ^talk 00:01, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::It's also unnecessary on an image (use {{para||center}} within the image markup) or on a {{tag|gallery|o}} (add class=center). --Redrose64 (talk) 00:27, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:Add {{para|groupstyle|text-align: center}} and remove the obsolete {{tag|center|o}} tags. See {{tl|Moon spacecraft}}. --  Gadget850 ^talk 14:04, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::@{{u|Gadget850}} - Thank you *very much* for your suggestions - they are *very much* appreciated - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 14:08, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::@{{u|Gadget850}} - BRIEF Followup => Seems your suggestion *centers* the title for "Groups" very well - but does not seem to *center* the titles for "Subgroups" - is there additional code to *center* the titles for "Subgroups" as well - Thanking you in advance for your reply - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 14:20, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Each subgroup is invoked through {{tl|navbox subgroup}} which has its own {{para|groupstyle}}; it is not inherited from {{tl|navbox}}. --  Gadget850 ^talk 14:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::Yes - Thanks again for your help with this - it's *very much* appreciated - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 14:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Could someone help me with humanification of a code from {{tl|Mars Quads - By Name}}? This template is a technical disaster, and has many obsolete tags. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 15:43, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:I converted {{tag|center|o}} to the appropriate markup within the {{tag|div|o}}. --  Gadget850 ^talk 16:02, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks for the {{tl|Mars Quads - By Name}} update as well - it's *very much* appreciated - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 18:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

: {{re|Diannaa}} I'm not familiar with the reports, but surely they could be easily adapted to run with [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/ Quarry], which is the new Labs-hosted hotness for running SQL queries. I tried it with the "Unused non-free files" one – the query is still running, but everything seems to work and when it finishes, you should be able to see the results at http://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/851. Matma Rex talk 19:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC) Oh hey, it actually just finished. There are 1453 pages in the result. Matma Rex talk 19:16, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's awesome. Is there any way the results could be brought over so that interested parties can easily tag the files for deletion? -- Diannaa (talk) 19:20, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::: {{re|Diannaa}} I've already copied them over to Wikipedia:Database reports/Unused non-free files. (This was done manually this time, but it definitely could be automated, if only anyone has the time for this – alas I don't.) Matma Rex talk 19:53, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::: Thanks so much. Is there any way you could have a look at the "Large non-free files" as well? I would really appreciate it. -- Diannaa (talk) 20:01, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::: {{re|Diannaa}} Done: http://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/853 and updated Wikipedia:Database reports/Large non-free files. I needed to adapt this query a bit. Matma Rex talk 23:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::The backlog is not as extreme as I expected, quite manageable. Thank you very much for your help with this. -- Diannaa (talk) 23:41, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

: There's also [http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/reports/orfu.txt http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/reports/orfu.txt] which is updated daily. Nick (talk) 23:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:: Thanks Nick, I will have a close look at it tomorrow, as it seems to include some images not present on the other list. -- Diannaa (talk) 02:36, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Matma Rex}} Any chance you could take a peek at my unanswered posts at the bottom of Wikipedia talk:Database reports? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 03:38, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:: {{re|GoingBatty}} Sorry, I don't really know what to do to change the report configuration. Perhaps you should contact the maintainers directly, whoever that is. Matma Rex talk 08:15, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Eduardofeld}} According to WP:HG, bug reports should be made here. Have you done that? --Redrose64 (talk) 08:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

::Done. Thanks. E. Feld ^talk 09:27, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

If you're curious, try this example: go to Mozart and scatology, click on What Links Here, and you'll get a huge number of hits, because Mozart and scatology is mentioned on the Mozart navigation template, which has been transcluded 266 times on the English Wikipedia. Most of these hits are completely irrelevant; you have to comb through them to find the few legitimate inbound links, such as Difficile lectu (Mozart).

So I ask: would it be desirable/feasible to exclude Template:X entries from the What Links Here links? Opus33 (talk) 00:59, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:It's a frequent request but non-trivial and it has not been implemented. See for example Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 122#WhatLinksHere overwhelmed by links in navigation templates. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:52, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks for letting me know. Opus33 (talk) 02:24, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:::It's not feasible to implement this. No matter how we did it, there would either be a lot of false positives, a lot of false negatives, or both. It would also require rewriting how the parser works, since it currently expands all templates before it handles wikilinks. Jackmcbarn (talk) 14:53, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Thank you. Opus33 (talk) 16:48, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:A technique for finding direct links to a page is to search for the term within page sources only using CirrusSearch's insource. A regex search could limit the search to wikilinks only: insource:/\[\[\s*Mozart and scatology\s*(\|.*)?\]\]/. Regex search does not appear to work perfectly though: \s often matches a literal "s" instead of whitespace. SiBr₄ (talk) 15:50, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

::This worked beautifully, thanks so much. I noticed that CirrusSearch is still in beta, but I think it would great if your idea was implemented as the basis for a new What Links Here once CirrusSearch is up and running on WP. Opus33 (talk) 16:48, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:By adding "see also Logos" to the section heading "Prose instead of flags" you changed the name of the section so your link won't work. If you want to cross reference the two section with text then put it underneath the heading not as part of it. Nthep (talk) 13:28, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:(edit conflict)I don't really understand what you are trying to do. Are you trying to link the titles mutually? While that seems like a very interesting general problem, the simple answer is "don't do that then", and link in the body of the section, rather than in the section title itself. (regardless, I'm intrigued, and will come back on this. Still, the answer will be "don't do that") Or do you mean something else? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:30, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant has 38 sections and four sub-sections. Which of these is "the right section in the ISIS Talk page"? --Redrose64 (talk) 13:34, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

::The page tries to link two section headings to eachother with this as the section headings:

::Prose instead of flags? (See also #Logos)

::Logos (See also #Prose instead of flags?)

::It doesn't work because you have to link to the whole title of the other section heading, including the small part. And even though it would be possible to only link one way, or link both ways by inserting anchors, don't use section headings for this. It's confusing, it gives ugly automatic section edit summaries, it breaks old links to the sections when you add "see also ..." later, it makes it hard to manually make links to the sections, it breaks when the sections are archived at different times, and so on. Lots of problems and very little benefit compared to making the link at the start of the section. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:00, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:::And we have {{tl|section link}} to make this a bit simpler. --  Gadget850 ^talk 16:22, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:Please, make a request at meta:Steward requests/Username changes. Ruslik_Zero 20:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:The account {{u|Blueye}} at the English Wikipedia was created back in 2007 but did never edit anything. As far as I can tell the unified login was introduced much later so I guess this another user's account. You might want to usurp it though. De728631 (talk) 20:22, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

File:Media Viewer - New Design - Disable Panel 1 Dialog.png

Hi folks: we're happy to let you know that our multimedia team has released many new improvements to Media Viewer in recent weeks, based on community feedback.

Here are some of the new features that are now live on the English Wikipedia:

• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/831 An easier way to enlarge images by clicking on them]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/830 "More Details" button: a more prominent link to the File: page]
• Separate buttons for [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/841 "Download"] and [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/834 "Share or Embed"]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/836 An easier way to disable Media Viewer for personal use]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/719 Re-enable Media Viewer from a file page]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/870 Rename File page button: "Open in Media Viewer"]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/876 Make MediaViewer text larger in Monobook]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/909 A simpler metadata panel with fewer items]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/301 Faster image load with thumbnail pre-rendering]

You can [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_pictures#mediaviewer/File:Gulf_Fritillaries_Mating_0019.jpg try out these features on this 'Featured pictures' page].

Next, we are working on these last 'must-have' improvements for this release:

• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/589 A caption or description right below the image]
• [https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/833 Move license label after source and adjust layout]

(Note that the layout change above has just been released for testing on MediaWiki.org.)

These features are based on the most frequent requests from our recent community consultation and ongoing user research. For more information, visit the Media Viewer Improvements page -- or the Help FAQ page.

Many thanks to all the community members who suggested these improvements. Our research so far confirms that they provide a better experience for readers and casual editors, the primary target users for Media Viewer.

Please let us know what you think on this Media Viewer discussion page. We will post one more update in mid-November, once all improvements have been released and tested. Best regards. Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 22:49, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

"Do you know if it is possible to extract [all] PubMed ID (PMID) or PMCIDs from Wiki references? Furthermore, could you dump those IDs out into a list for analysis?"

Thanks, Jake Ocaasi ^{t | c} 03:53, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

: Hey Ocaasi. Seems like an easy job. Can you give me a few examples of PMIDs in articles and talk to me about the form they take (e.g. always a 25 digit number -- or something like that)? --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 22:37, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:: After a bit of searching around, it looks like they can be extracted with a regex pretty nicely. E.g. /\bpmid *= *[0-9]+\b/i Does that seem right? --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 22:42, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::{{Ping|EpochFail}} I don't know regex but something like that should work. We'd want to know which PMIDs came from which article ideally. And then we'd need to dump it all in a list. Any idea what the workflow/toolset needed for something like this would be? Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 02:41, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::: {{done}} I've finished a crawl over the XML dumps for 2014-10-08. You can find it here: http://datasets.wikimedia.org/public-datasets/enwiki/etc/pmids.articles.20141008.tsv It includes page_id, page_namespace, page_title, rev_id (most recent), pmid in TAB separated values. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 12:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::: edit Fixed the link to the dataset. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 13:44, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::::User:EpochFail, can you combine that with a list to the ones that use URLs in the http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/nnnnnnn format, or to PubMedCentral pages? There are multiple ways to link these papers. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

::::: Hey WhatamIdoing. Just so that I understand, are you asking me to also extract PMIDs that appear in certain types of URLs? If that's right, I'd be happy to, but I'd request that someone else do the digging for the different URL structures. I can update the regular expressions as necessary so long as I have examples. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 12:43, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::EpochFail, that's the format: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/nnnnnnn where nnnnnnn is the PMID number (always plain numbers) itself. (The number of digits varies from one to eight, because it's sequential, but it's usually seven or eight. They've assigned a bit more than 25.3 million so far.)

::::::It appears that there is another format, but the PMID number isn't visible at all in it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=B1+and+B2+cells+differ+in+their+potential+to+switch+immunoglobulin+isotype. will take you to the same article. This is actually search results that returned exactly one possible match, and therefore took the user to the single match. Short of writing something to look up the original database record, I think you'll want to just skip these. They're rare anyway.

::::::At PubMedCentral, the URL format is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMCnnnnnnn/ PMCID numbers do not match PMID numbers. In {{tl|cite journal}}, you would write {{para|pmc|nnnnnnn}} (just the numbers), although I believe that the official PMCID is PMCnnnnnnn. If someone has done a good job with the citations, then you might have both a PMID and the corresponding PMCID present in the same citation. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:33, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::: I just updated the dataset (same URL) to flag which IDs are pmc and which are pmid. I also included the URL scheme, but it doesn't seem to have added a substantial amount of new IDs. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 16:41, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::::::::Parsing for the {{para|pmid}} parameter (must allow {{para|PMID}} as well) within citation templates should find about 479,000 cites covering 319,000 distinct PMIDs on en-wiki. Plus maybe 1100 with PMC only. Though that will miss about 18000 plain PMIDs (use of PMID 12345 as PMID is a wiki magic word) and some number of URLs. But I think the number where there is a URL but no PMID in a cite or plain PMID in the same ref is a few hundred at the most. Rjwilmsi 17:45, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm not able to link sub-template - User:Rezonansowy/Infobox publication/val, my code looks like:

{{/val|author|50}}

It works for example on Wikipedia:Article wizard. Like this:

{{/subtemplate}}

...but doesn't work when I link this template containing sub-template to another page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ExpandTemplates&wpContextTitle=Animal+Farm&wpInput={{User%3ARezonansowy%2FInfobox+publication}} example]. I got redlink insted of sub-template.

--Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 18:04, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:For subpages transcluded by a relative path, it's always relative to the top-level page, not relative to the page where the wikicode is. So it thinks that you want to transclude Animal Farm/val. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:42, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::It doesn't seem to work the right way, IMO it's a bug. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 19:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:::It works as intended. It would sometimes be nice if there was a way to tell where code was transcluded from but there isn't. In your case there is a trivial fix: Give the full pagename. By the way, mainspace doesn't have subpages so {{/val}} in mainspace interprets /val as a template name. That's why the red link is Template:/val. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::::{{Ping|Rezonansowy}} If I understand correctly that the goal is to transclude User:Rezonansowy/Infobox publication/val in User:Rezonansowy/Infobox publication, why not just give the full pathname:

{{in5}}{{mxt|{{User:Rezonansowy/Infobox publication/val|author|50}}}}

Better still, the following is more flexible and won't require editing if you rename the "parent" template, which is more like the "relative pathname" functionality for which I think you were looking:

{{in5}}{{mxt|{{{{#invoke:TEMPLATENAME|main}}/val|author|50}}}}

—[AlanM1(talk)]— 08:49, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

With substitution, i.e. {{subst:#time:j F Y|~~~~~}}, it looks wrong: Error: Invalid time..

What is the reason for this? Shouldn't the substituted and the unsubstituted versions work identically? --Stefan2 (talk) 00:14, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Stefan2}} It looks like the substitution is happening before the tildes get expanded. Because of this, #time is complaining that five tildes in a row aren't a valid time. As a workaround, just use {{subst:#time:j F Y}}, which properly produces 30 October 2014. In fact, passing ~~~~~ to #time is always redundant and should be removed, since the default value of the second parameter is the current time. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:20, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:: And if for some reason you do need to explicitly say "the current type", use "now": {{#time:j F Y|now}}. Anomie⚔ 14:19, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:This may be the same issue that I reported here. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:14, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

:: Perhaps. I reported the issue at Github but was informed that it was not a specific Xtools issue because other tools, like https://tools.wmflabs.org/usersearch/usersearch.py?name=Wolbo&page=All+England+Plate&server=enwiki&max=100 Edits by user, also showed missing data and that it had "something to do with Labs Replication DBs". So are there people here who can take this issue on or else point me to the right place to follow-up? Thx.--Wolbo (talk) 20:46, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

::: Any help available on this or should it be reported somewhere else? --Wolbo (talk) 15:23, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:I just got this error too while trying to add a link from the German version of Coin of the Year Award, but logging out and back in again fixed it for me. Graham87 09:11, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::Logging out and back in didn't fix it for me, so probably there's some other factor involved. --ais523 11:32, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

PS {{tl|Mono}}'s default size setting is 1.2em (120%), which, relatively speaking, looks a bit large here (Firefox-based browser).

:Unfortunately, for as far as fonts go, "firefox-based browser" is insufficient information - it's the specific font that's rendered that counts, which can depend on the fonts you have installed, default settings in your browser, and the magical way browsers choose fonts. I'm not saying 1.2em must be perfect, and I'm no font wizard. Introducing and implementing a new setting for this, to me, feels wrong, and {{tl|mono}} would override that again. I'm not sure what the "right" size for that template would be. Maybe you can make some testcases and discuss on the template itself. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:28, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

• See Wikipedia:Typography#The monospace 'bug'. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:04, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:See the bug list at Help:Automatically generated reference list. There seems to be no work on namespace detection. --  Gadget850 ^talk 22:25, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

: There's User:Dispenser/Checklinks. It'll be upgraded in the coming months along with Reflinks, right now life issues are interfering. — Dispenser 14:23, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:When I click show preview, I get the message

::"Warning: Template include size is too large. Some templates will not be included.

::Warning: This page contains too many expensive parser function calls.

::It should have less than 500 calls, there are now 604 calls."

:If I remove a few of the October pages, it starts working again. So it seems your guess is correct: too many transclusions or too long. Stickee (talk) 01:05, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah, now take a look at this:

Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 September 5

Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 September 4

MediaWiki is saying you've exceeded the post-expand include size limit. In other words: it's too long. Update: After asking on IRC, your solutions are either to split it into multiple pages or find another way of decreasing the size. Stickee (talk) 01:29, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:Yes, if you click "Page information" under "Tools" or enable "Show hidden categories" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering then you can see it is in both :Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded and :Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:34, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::The expensive parser function hit is coming from Template:No redirect, which uses #ifexist to decide whether to output a red link or an internal URL with redirect=no. Maybe we should remove this check? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 04:18, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::re Mr. Strad: With this removal, can we add a "no redirect" as an unchecked (non-expensive) link to the {{tl|Tfd links}} list? -DePiep (talk) 17:16, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

: Your edits are on Wikidata, see d:Special:Contributions/Titodutta. Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 08:56, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:* Yes, but I can not see my recent edits (using this tool) there. I was wondering, that's why, where are "#My edits?" Regards. --Tito☸Dutta 09:17, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Did you actually make the Wikidata edits as described in your link "[http://aharoni.wordpress.com/2014/10/31/link-wikipedia-articles-in-different-languages/ this tool]"? If you only clicked "Yes" in the tool to say that two shown articles are about the same topic then it doesn't make edits but it logs your clicks at http://tools.wmflabs.org/yichengtry/checkbylist.php. When you are logged in you can see your own clicks by selecting "checked list" in the drop-down box. If you are not familiar with interlanguage linking at Wikidata then it can be non-trivial to sort out some situations when you make the actual edits. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:54, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

I want to suggest something at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals), but I don't know if it's possible without major assistance from developers, so I figured I'd check here to see if we could implement it locally.

Right now, if you have a link to a misspelling, it's treated as any other link: Geroge Bush works just as well as George Bush. It's easy to notice some spelling errors (e.g. New Yokr) because they don't exist as redirects, but once we've created a redirect to help correct spelling errors, this little benefit disappears. What if we had some way of marking misspellings as misspellings? I'm imagining the software auto-placing {{tl|copy edit}} after a misspelling under the following conditions:

• It's a direct link, without piping: Pensylvania gets marked, but not Idaho's Portugal or Ohoi. When the link is piped, we don't need to worry about misspellings, since they won't be noticed by the casual reader anyway, while the system can't determine that the displayed text (e.g. "Ohoi") is indeed a misspelling.
• The redirect is marked with {{tl|R from misspelling}}.
• The redirect is not encased in {{tl|notatypo}}. I can't imagine why, but you might have a good reason to link Pensylvania, and we don't want such a link to be marked as a typo when it's intentional.
• The redirect is located on a mainspace page. There's no need for this discussion to be marked, for example.

Is this idea possible, perhaps via a modification to the site JS? Or if not, would it be reasonable to have a bot that tags (or fixes) such links? Spellchecking bots are a bad idea in general, but that's because they can't understand contexts; it's impossible for them to know that "Ohoi" is a mistake for "Ohio" and not a reference to something else. In my limited proposal, no context is required, since a human's already tagged Unites States as a misspelling after determining that it is a mistake. Nyttend (talk) 18:36, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:It might not be advisable to get a bot to fix them though as some redirects marked as misspellings might not be a misspelling and should have that tag removed. Or imagine a vandal going around and adding the misspelling tag to various redirects and then a bot going around and editing lots of articles to fix those misspellings when they were not. However, there is a report at Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings though which can be used to manually fix articles for those that feel inclined. -- WOSlinker (talk) 18:46, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::Good point on the fixing itself. What about simply tagging, however? The database report is comparatively obscure, and how many people know about it, aside from dedicated typo-fixers? If a link is tagged, either directly by the software, or by a bot, it will be noticed by everyone. This is the kind of thing that is capable of drawing in additional editors: newbies often wonder how they can contribute, and if we auto-mark spelling errors, it will be a good indication to the casual reader of something that can easily be fixed. Nyttend (talk) 19:09, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::IMHO a simpler solution is to get rid of the redirects, or get them to appear as redlinks. The more redirects there are, the worse the spelling in WP articles becomes. This is because people see that a redirect for a mis-spelling forms a blue or green link (I seem to recall green links only show to logged in users), assume it is right, and repeat the same mis-spelliing throughout the article.
I know this is not popular, but keeping incorrectly spelt (yes, that is correct in UK English) articles as redirects, leads to more uses of the same misspelling, as editors copy the spelling in a blue or green link, whereas, if it came up as a red-link they would, at least, be more likely to check.
As an example, I spend a lot of time on misspellings of "rhythm" - such as rhythim, rhythym, rhytm, rythm and blues and rythm guitar to name but a few, which could largely be avoided if they produced a red-link instead of a green one. - Arjayay (talk) 19:14, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::::Not a good idea: someone who goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geroge or searches for Geroge has almost certainly intended to reach the George page, so we ought to send them there. Facilitating searchers and people who go directly to URLs is more important than fighting typos. Nyttend (talk) 19:22, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Not a PoV I can agree with, as it makes WP look so amateur. - Arjayay (talk) 19:34, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::Beside the fact that your view is in the minority, this is not a forum for discussing priorities; I'm looking for technical input on what's possible and what's not possible. Nyttend (talk) 21:23, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::This I think is a case of enthusiasm taking over from common sense. When we talk of about letting a bot loose- we have to have a firm algorithm in mind. Not withstanding in UK:ENG we have two alternative spelling for many word depending if you use the Oxford model or the Cambridge model- The area where I work has spellings that are artificial anglicisations of German place names when in truth they have never been modified in the first place, zB Thuringen. George Frideric Handel is a lovely case in point- yes we mean Georg Handel or was it Georg Friedrich Händel. I do agree that providing redirects to help users with clumbsy fingers is wrong- but would probably lose the debate over not making Equal Ops for the disabled, so I will stay stum (schtum) on that. -- Clem Rutter (talk) 21:38, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::I think this is drifting away from the point. Nobody proposed to add copy-editing templates to all redirects. When you mention the various spellings of Handel, none of those would be marked as a misspelling. I would certainly support there being a better way to mark known misspellings, perhaps as input for improving Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings. I'm just not sure a bot is the right way to do it, given that bots can be disruptive when they go wrong, and the case of someone trolling the bot as WOSlinker described is one way it could go wrong. Also, the FAQ here says "No, we will not add a spell-checking bot". rspεεr (talk) 21:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::If you had read my original statement, you would have observed that this indeed has a rigid algorithm: bot only marks or changes things that are marked as misspellings by humans. If you had read the spellchecking chunk of WP:FDB, you would have observed that spellchecking bots are denied because they cannot account for the context, while this is a situation in which the context has already been established by humans. Clearly this has no way of surviving opposition from the ignorant and biassed, so I won't waste my time trying to help here. Your failure to read carefully and your opposition to our standard practice is most unhelpful. Nyttend (talk) 22:03, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

{{collapse bottom}}

Does anyone here know the status of the Xtools edit counter? I have been unable to access the tool for several days, and this does not appear to be one of the usual temporary service interruptions. Does anyone know anything about this? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:12, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

:All Xtools have been down for some days. See #Wikimedia Tool Labs and bugzilla:72104. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:18, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

:I have mentioned it's down in the interface message Template:Sp-contributions-footer.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sp-contributions-footer&diff=630108591&oldid=621546503] I did the same yesterday for MediaWiki:Histlegend.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Histlegend&diff=629970098&oldid=627006543] PrimeHunter (talk) 14:27, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

::If you go to [https://github.com/x-Tools/xtools/issues/48 the Github report] you see: "Labels: None! No milestones! Nobody assigned!" The [https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72104 Bugzilla thread] is equally discouraging: "Unprioritized! Assigned to nobody!" Except for Wikiviewstats, trying to use any of these tools does not even produce an error message, just a blank screen endlessly showing "Waiting for tools.wmflabs.org". (See the thread above, "Wikimedia Tool Labs", for some of the problems caused for users). Well I think this is not good enough for a facility used by many thousands. How do we jog Wikimedia to get going and resolve this?: Noyster (talk), 08:43, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Dirtlawyer1|PrimeHunter|Noyster}} Looks like the counter is operational again. GoingBatty (talk) 15:16, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Great! I have removed the down messages from Template:Sp-contributions-footer and MediaWiki:Histlegend after testing the three linked xtools. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:14, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

{{Ping|GoingBatty}} I'm a writer/editor, not a wiki-coder tech guy. When there are problems with X tools (or other Wikimedia Lab Tools), where is the appropriate interface to go with questions? Once upon a time, we could go to X!'s talk page . . . . Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:29, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Dirtlawyer1}} This page seemed to work pretty well for you. GoingBatty (talk) 15:38, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

• {{Ec}} For X! tools, there are a few maintainers... The best ways to do it is post the issue on bugzilla (phabricator soon replacing this), on github ([https://github.com/x-Tools/xtools/issues here]), or ask a maintainer: {{Noping|Cyberpower678|Hedonil|Tparis}} (may be more, not sure). — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 15:41, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

:*Thanks, guys. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:45, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

::*One more question: pardon my ignorance, but what is the relationship of Phabricator and Bugzilla to Wikimedia Labs? I don't wander outside of English Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons very often, so all of these support groups are a bit of a mystery to me. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:53, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Bugzilla is the old system for reporting bugs (including feature requests and random ideas). Phabricator is the soon-to-be new system for reporting bugs and also lots of other things that could be done in Bugzilla, but which Bugzilla is not exactly very convenient for, like figuring out what's going on or planning projects. In the old (aka current) system, you find a problem on wiki, you report it at Bugzilla, some (volunteer or staff) dev decides to fix it, the dev's code goes to Gerritt, and then (with luck, assuming that the rather picky Jenkins bot doesn't reject your code, etc.) it somehow shows up in the MediaWiki software that we're using. Bugzilla is going to "go away" Any Day Now™, meaning probably within the next few weeks. Unless it doesn't.

::::WMF Labs is the replacement for Toolserver. It's a place to put useful or interesting stuff that people are using. NB that people specify "WMF Labs" to prevent confusion with "Beta Labs", which is a test wiki. http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/ will take you to a partial copy of the English Wikipedia, where you can see what some of the devs have broken this week are working on right now. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:37, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

::::: The replacement for Toolserver is specifically Tool Labs; Wikimedia Labs is the larger project that Beta Labs, Tool Labs, and a large number of other non-production services and test servers are a part of. Anomie⚔ 11:43, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

• Well, perhaps this is the problem: TParis has lost access to their account, Cyberpower687 has been on WikiBreak for two months, and Hedonil hasn't made an edit since 20 August. I guess this won't get fixed any time soon. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 06:18, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
• Well someone has gotten my attention about this issue, so I will be taking a look over the next few days. ALSO IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT GITHUB IS THE BEST PLACE TO REPORT BUGS AS IT IS THERE WE CAN MOST EASILY KEEP TRACK OF THE BUGS. I am no way shouting, but making trying to make that statement standout for future bug reports.—cyberpower _{Temporarily Online}^{Trick or Treat} 11:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

::It works two ways. There are replies to the bug report here and at bugzilla:72104 but none of the two reports at https://github.com/x-Tools/xtools/issues/. I think most bug reporters like to at least know whether their report has been seen. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:34, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

• {{fixed}}—cyberpower _{Temporarily Online}^{Trick or Treat} 14:04, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Is it possible to request search queries for phrases containing special chars? For example: HTML tags, like

: The original Reflinks was open sourced, just the WMF didn't want to come to terms with me. As for Kolossos's tool, he's accepted WMF's coercive terms. However, the code quality isn't good and lacks optimization, but otherwise works. — Dispenser 16:43, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::So, where i can see source code of Templatetiger? I think not all tools from wmflabs are open source. 82.77.75.167 (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

::: Likely only in Labs itself as Kolossos doesn't like to use version control. You could ask him for the code. Or easily create a Tool Labs account (I'd say too easily) and peak at it, or hop on irc:wikimedia-labs and ask User:Coren to give it. I'd help out more, but I'm serving an unjustified ban. — Dispenser 22:15, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

How to peak at it? I tried, unsuccessfully. (i am Windows user). Can someone make a video tutorial for me, please?:) I think it will be usefull in time not only for me. Thank you. 82.77.75.167 (talk) 22:15, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:Hello, my sourcecode is available [https://tools.wmflabs.org/templatetiger/tt-source.php here]. I believe it's not very useful without databases on wmflabs. For further questions you can contact me: kolossos_Ät_wikipedia.de .--Kolossos (talk) 19:01, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thank you. You're right. Without knowing the structure of directories and DB dumps this source it's not very useful, at least for me.

::Can Wmflabs admins make possible to view and browse directories and files from Wmflabs directly via browser? 82.77.75.167 (talk) 02:21, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

:::There is some [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Vorlagenauswertung/en#Database_layout documentation] available. I don't believe that admins will make directories readable, also if would support this. --Kolossos (talk) 19:12, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:I'm seeing the same. Looks like Andyrom75 reopened ticket 72559 as of 11:58 today. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 12:25, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::Can't reproduce now. Try to purge the page if you see it again? Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:28, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::: Purge seems to fix it now, though it didn't at around 12:00 today. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:35, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::::Agreed, it now seems to be fixed, once the containing page is purged. That most certainly wasn't the case at 12:25. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 13:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:::::(A few links about this issue: [https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72559], [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-ambassadors/2014-October/001005.html], [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-October/079260.html], [https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incident_documentation/20141027-CirrusSearch]. Best, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 18:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC))

I tried [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Maffei Mobile Dan Maffei] but it looks fine, here, and on my Android.

I will ask that person to respond here with more info. What is needed? Type of phone? OS? Anything else?--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:52, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:A description of the issue would be nice. In addition to that, the type of phone, OS and which mobile browser would also be good to know. A screenshot of the problem can make it easier to understand the issue as well. (I'm not seeing any problems under Chrome for Android and Android Browser by the way) Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:00, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

:Oh, and whether this is wikipedia on the browser, or the wikipedia app. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:00, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

::[https://twitter.com/bcheungz/status/528178123305922560/photo/1 screenshot] I see that the person hasn't followed up, although it is election day, so has other things to do at the moment.--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:31, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Most Peoples who browse them won't be able to see a single single glyph, especially on embedded devices. This make them useless, as long as no fonts are included on the page (I know a set of [http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/ free fonts] which can be legally [http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/Symbola.zip used] for this).

Current dedicated extension, can't print those glyph, and for sure it would not be relevant to load Mo of data on each page to tell how a web browser should draw Water Closets or the Statue of Liberty. 2A02:8420:508D:CC00:56E6:FCFF:FEDB:2BBA (talk) 13:51, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:Egyptian Hieroglyphs (Unicode block) and similar articles use {{tl|infobox writing system}} which notes the issue and links to Help:Special characters. The alternative would be to add the font set as an image. --  Gadget850 ^talk 14:33, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::Yes, and Help:Special characters tell to download appropriate fonts. This will never work on many mobile phones. Also, Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs and Ornamental Dingbats Transport and Map Symbols don't use {{tl|infobox writing system}}. 2A02:8420:508D:CC00:56E6:FCFF:FEDB:2BBA (talk) 14:39, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::There was a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Writing systems/Archive 9#Backup images of alphabet charts. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:46, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::::There is some webfonts discussions on mw:Universal Language Selector/WebFonts as well. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:28, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Yes, and since, the possibility to use an image as a glyph (vectorial or raster) have been deprecated. Chrome already removed support. and mw:Universal Language Selector/WebFonts can't help since most of those glyph aren't part of any language

::I made the Egyptian Hieroglyphs somewhat better, by editing Template:Unicode chart Egyptian Hieroglyphs. Enwiki does have hieroglyph markup support, which I did use to fix that, but as you can see it is far from being perfect. At least though it is better to see some hieroglyphs than none. You can file a bug for the remaining hieroglyphs on bugzilla, under the product MediaWiki extensions and the component WikiHiero.--Snaevar (talk) 10:39, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

:::I don't have a bugzilla account. 2A02:8420:508D:CC00:56E6:FCFF:FEDB:2BBA (talk) 15:43, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

::::Somewhat ironically, that is tracked in https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148 (from 2004). I think that the migration to Phabricator will allow more non-logged in nicities, but don't hold me to that. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:13, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:I'm now unbreaking the eleven templates by converting the TfD notices to inline-type notices within the table cells the templates create. SiBr₄ (talk) 22:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::Done. Should look a lot better now. SiBr₄ (talk) 22:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{ec}} The templates could be modified to put the {{tlx|Template for discussion/dated}} inside a {{tag|noinclude}}, but that would mean that many people would be unaware that the templates were up for deletion until they suddenly disappeared. If a convincing case can be made at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 November 1#Hotcold templates for speedy keep, the notice can be removed earlier than the standard week or six that TfDs take. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:44, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::I appreciate the effort that both of you gave to help me understand what had happened to break the template's output, and for correcting the code to restore its functionality with wiki goodwill and speed. And for observing such fine examples of selfless service, I am uplifted; going now, upon high, to tell it on the mountain – so others can know of the good work that was done here today! Thank you.—John Cline (talk) 10:07, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Richhoncho}} It seems to work for me. What specifically seems to be the problem? Jackmcbarn (talk) 02:01, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

::Here's the message left on my talkpage. "Hi, Rich. I'm in the process of adding a few artists/songs to List of artists who have covered Bob Dylan songs and noticed that the sorting isn't working properly. Sometimes when I click the Artist header, it works fine. Other times, the order goes awry just after Bobby Darin, at which point sorting is by song title. I checked the hypertext, and everything seems okay, so there may be a bug in the programming. If you get a chance, could you take a look at this? Thanks." Same thing sometimes happens to me. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:32, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

::: You screwed things up by using fancy quotes (“” and ‘’) instead of normal quotes (" and '), particularly as attempted quoting for the HTML attributes, so some of the sort values were coming out as "data-sort-value" itself. I went ahead and replaced them all, and things seem to be working again. Anomie⚔ 11:28, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:::: Thanks for that. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:56, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Chess}} The diff is actually [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bloodline_%28Netflix_TV_Series%29&diff=prev&oldid=632282368]. See Help:Diff. Some subst code in the previous version had not been substituted due to the unclosed ref. The subst was activated when you closed the ref, so it looked like it was you who made the subst. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:07, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:My status bar says "Waiting for tools.wmflabs.org" It's annoying because popups won't load until the page finished loading completely. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 13:45, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks. Yes, the persondata java script tool doesn't load until the page has finished loading too. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:50, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:Still happening today. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 09:52, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

::Right, found it. I added the JS for Reflinks into my account about 3 weeks ago. Clearing that out, fixes it. Looks like it's trying to connect to something external for reflinks to work properly, but fails. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:09, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:Special:Contributions/Albino shows no edits at the English Wikipedia so it's expected that Albino is not at Special:ActiveUsers. commons:Special:Contributions/Materialscientist does show a lot of activity so I don't know why you are missing from commons:Special:ActiveUsers. [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=20&username=Mate] shows you are skipped in a list starting before and ending after you, so it isn't an off-by-one error and the limit=1 comment at commons:Commons:Administrators' noticeboard#Active users list is not relevant. It wouldn't help to change the limit at commons:MediaWiki:sp-contributions-footer. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:47, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::Do you mean that in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=250&username=Albino&hidebots=1&hidesysops=1] the tag "Display users starting at" does not actually mean "starting at", but instead requires the prefix to be a valid username? Materialscientist (talk) 02:58, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::No, I mean Special:ActiveUsers says "This is a list of users who had some kind of activity within the last 30 days". User:Albino is a real user shown at Special:Listusers/Albino, but has no activity within the last 30 days. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::::I see. My main concern is that the prefix filter doesn't work. Materialscientist (talk) 03:38, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::There is no prefix filter. The special page runs a SQL query which (in essence) sets a counter to zero, jumps into the active users table at the start point (username=Albino) and works forward testing against selection criteria (hidebots=1&hidesysops=1) and for each matching row, increments the counter, formats and displays that row, until either the counter shows that sufficient rows (limit=250) have been output, or the end of the table is reached. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:50, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::{{ping|Materialscientist}} I can see you on those lists at Commons unless, obviously, I set hidesysops=1.

::::::{{ping|Redrose64}} Are you sure? [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=1&username=Materialscientist&hidesysops=1 This] returns "No users found", so I would think that a row that matches the activity criterion but also one of the hide filters would still increment the counter, such that the output can be shorter than the limit. — HHHIPPO 20:18, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Yess... [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=2&username=Materialscientist&hidesysops=1 this] returns 1 user, it should return 2. It looks like the hidesysops=1 is processed after the counter is incremented. One for Bugzilla. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:24, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::The Commons results have changed since this discussion started. I don't know why but maybe it's related to Commons upgrading to 1.25wmf6 earlier today. The above links [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ActiveUsers&limit=1&username=Materialscientist] and [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=20&username=Mate] show Materialscientist now but did not when they were posted. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:40, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::::{{replyto|PrimeHunter}} The original link included &hidesysops=1 - your most recent two do not, that is the difference. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:40, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::No, that's not it. The first link posted by Materialscientist is to Wikipedia and includes &hidesysops=1, but I copied the second link which is to Commons and never said &hidesysops=1.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29&diff=prev&oldid=632361893] The second link I copied is from my 02:47 post and never said &hidesysops=1 either.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=632368165] The result of clicking those two links has definitely changed since 02:47 where they did not show Materialscientist. The first said "Mateus Chiquititas Rebelde" as reported in the original post. The second was a list without Materialscientist. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:12, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:P123ct1 (talk)

– but not elsewhere. Why is this? ~ P123ct1 (talk) 12:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:Yes, the default sig does seem to have changed subtly. My guess is so that the word talk doesn't get bolded. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:50, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

• Not sure why you think that has changed.... It's been that way since December of 2007 when {{U|Mr.Z-man}} added it in {{Diff|MediaWiki:Signature|176228929|171979146|this edit}}... MediaWiki:Signature is where the default signature code is. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:18, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::It was actually [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Signature&diff=next&oldid=176229132 this edit] but still in December 2007 by Mr.Z-man. P123ct1, the mentioned bolding is the feature at Help:Self link. If you copy your signature from here to your user talk page then it will display as P123ct1 (talk). #top is an anchor automatically inserted on all pages near the top. A customized signature with enough spare room in the 255 allowed characters can get this feature by adding {{SUBST:#ifeq:{{SUBST:FULLPAGENAME}}|User talk:YOURUSERNAME|#top}} (as rendered here with YOURUSERNAME replaced) at the end of the user talk link, for example User talk:PrimeHunter{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Why would I want bolding, and why does the signature appear with #top only on my Talk page and not elsewhere? All pages near the top of what? Is Help:Self link a joke? I don't speak Rune! ~ P123ct1 (talk) 14:25, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::::It only appears on your talk page because that is the only page where talk would not display as a link but as boldface instead. By including a section anchor, the bolding is suppressed and it appears as a normal wikilink. top is one of a small number of predefined anchors that occur on every single Wikipedia page, regardless of skin, namespace or page content. Physically and visually, it's just before the main heading for the page. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Yes, the html source of User talk:P123ct1 contains before the heading "User talk:P123ct1". This code is automaticaly added by the MediaWiki software regardless of the wikisource of the page. It means you can link directly to that place. Compare User talk:P123ct1 and User talk:P123ct1#top. Your browser will probably scroll down a little to the page heading when you click the second link. There are similar id's mw-page-base, mw-head-base, content even earlier on the page but they are longer, less intuitive and possibly less stable. User talk:Redrose64#Protection advice shows what happens without #top in the signature: You get bold unlinked talk. This is a deliberate feature of MediaWiki so it's easy to spot attempts at normal wikilinking to the page you are already on. Another example for this page: Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) produces Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) here. In articles it especially happens in navboxes, for example those at the bottom of Stephanie Beacham. They say Stephanie Beacham where the same template on other pages would have displayed the link Stephanie Beacham. I think it's a nice feature in navigation, especially when the link is piped and doesn't simply display the page name. The navigation links "Policy Technical Proposals Idea lab Miscellaneous" at top of this Village pump are made with Template:Village pump page header, but the link code Technical displays as Technical here. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:28, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::Less stable, indeed. mw-page-base and mw-head-base are used only in Vector skin; content is used in all except Modern. For that matter, top isn't used in either Cologne Blue or Modern, but these are less commonly used. I think that the only truly universal anchor is firstHeading which is right at the start of the main heading for the page. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:31, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::I didn't understand any of that, which doesn't matter, as all I want to know now is (a) why I should want to have bold and (b) what does it do? They are very simple questions, so may I have a simple answer? (not in Rune, please.) I am not computer-literate. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 13:57, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::(a) You shouldn't want to have bold in signatures. The whole reason for #top is to avoid bold. (b) #top avoids bold. That's the simple answers. We have explained the technical details very carefully. If technical explanations are Rune to you then you must live with the simple answers, and probably shouldn't ask for technical answers (as you must expect at the technical village pump), or try to update technical documentation. I have reverted your edits to Help:Link#What is an "anchor"? PrimeHunter (talk) 15:00, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|RoySmith}} Yes. Go to the history tab of the page in question, and look down an inch or two for the line of "External tools". The tool you are looking for is "Edits by user". -- John of Reading (talk) 15:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:You can also use commons:MediaWiki:Gadget-rightsfilter.js to filter any list in any page. Helder 23:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:I have used [http://bonomo.info/coyote/ip-calculator.php this tool] (not WMF related). --Stryn (talk) 21:01, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::Thank you, Stryn! That works nicely, and with only slightly more effort than the Labs tool. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:03, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:The English Wikipedia is totally independent of the Simple English Wikipedia. You should ask there instead of here. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:33, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

::It's the same as English Wikipedia. At the top of :simple:Islamic State there is a "Move" link in the "More" tab (Vector skin) or a "move" tab (MonoBook skin); use that. The page :simple:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant already exists, but it was created by making the opposite move, so you should be able to move over that. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:37, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Redrose64 for some reason all I see are the tabs: Read, Change, Change source and View history which are followed by the star icon for placing pages onto watchlist. There's nothing more. When I went into [//simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_State&action=history View history], I found the [//simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_State&diff=4870562&oldid=4870512 edit]] in which the page was moved to Islamic State and tried to undo the change through two routes, [//simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_State&action=edit&undoafter=4870512&undo=4870562 from the view history listing] and [//simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_State&action=edit&undoafter=4870512&undo=4870562 from the Difference between revisions page.] Either way I get a "The change appears to have already been undone." text in red placed just above the editing area and when I hit the save page button I am returned to the main article page with existing title and without the change being undone. Its baffling.

:::In simple, the link :simple:WP:PUMP works as a redirect to :simple:Wikipedia:Simple talk. Is this an appropriate place to pursue this or are there other specific options? Gregkaye ✍♪ 05:30, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

::::{{replyto|Gregkaye}} Page moves cannot be undone using an "undo" link - that's for undoing normal page edits. Confusingly, page moves (as well as some other actions like page protection) show up in the page history as if they were normal edits (example); but notice the absence of a diff at the top - it says "(No difference)" instead, because no text is changed when a page is moved. The message "The change appears to have already been undone" appears if the result of an attempted undo would not change the current text on the page.

:::::simple:Help:Moving a page says that you need to be an autoconfirmed user in order to make a page move; I notice that you have only four edits, so you're not yet autoconfirmed. When you are autoconfirmed, the "More" menu, in which the "Move" link appears, should appear between the watchlist star and the search box. Moving the page should certainly be discussed, because there have been two previous moves, so another could well be controversial (this is why I'm not going to move it myself, even though I am autoconfirmed at simple:). You could propose the move at the article's talk page; I don't see a problem in also informing :simple:WP:PUMP of the discussion on the article's talk page. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Brilliant Redrose64 TYVM Gregkaye ✍♪ 10:17, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:In mid October the tool timed out and was annoying to wait for without knowing whether it worked, so I added a down message to MediaWiki:Histlegend.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Histlegend&diff=629970098&oldid=627006543] Should we add down messages to external tools in MediaWiki messages if we don't know how long they will be down, and clicking them immediately reveals that they are down now? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:55, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:: The communication regarding technical problems with these statistics counters (X Tools) and WMFLabs DBs is poor and needs to be significantly improved. Not only are these tools down a lot lately or else very slow but I also found recent examples of incorrect data being displayed (data corruption?). Editors who want to report these issues or find out more about them are left in the dark and there is no easily available location to find information and get answers and status updates (see also my unanswered post above titled 'Edit Counters missing data'). I appreciate the significant effort put into these tools by all the creators but it should be possible to better inform editors when these tools are experiencing technical problems.--Wolbo (talk) 01:30, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:And now 03:50, 6 November 2014 (UTC), they are back; after accessing 'full page statistics', I [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/articleinfo/index.php?pageid=26833&project=en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en just noticed]

:"Notice: Again issues with Tool Labs databases after db maintenance. Some wiki's won't work. Sorry about that!"

:I guess we just live with it, eh? It's a benign issue, really. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 03:50, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:: The Foundation has its priorities in where its allocating resources -- such as unwanted tools familiar to us all. Keeping tools most users use up & running is not a priority to the Foundation. But remember: keep those donations coming in, people! -- llywrch (talk) 17:04, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

There is a major error in mobile version Wikipedia (en.m.wikipedia.org). Two icons, one that link to Special:Notifications and the other that links to Mobile menu has suddenly vanished. Look at this, both the icons are missing but other icons like this and this are appearing without any trouble. I have tried three different phones Samsung Galaxy S4, LG smart phone and one other; I have tried 4 browsers, UC Browser, Opera Mini and two default browers but the problem persists. I have even tried two different connections, 2G and 3G. But it appears that the problem is in Wikipedia not in my device. I have just now logged in to commons and hasn't found this problem there. Please fix this issues as soon as possible. Mobile users having trouble without those links. Thanks, Jim Carter 13:58, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:I just went to the page [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Group-sysop.css] on my Galaxy S2, Android 4.2.2, and both the stock Android browser and Firefox 36.0a1 show the two icons that are missing for you. Do you still have the problem? If so, could it be due to the free Wikipedia from Aircel that you are using? Maybe they're filtering out certain images. Try a Wifi connection to check. AxelBoldt (talk) 16:52, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::Hey, now working properly. I don't know who fixed it. But, thanks! And thank {{u|AxelBoldt|you}} too. Jim Carter 18:13, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

— Whatamidoing (WMF) 20:40, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:It would be nice if, a decade or so after Wikipedia (formerly WikipediA) abandoned camel case, the WMF would stop imposing it upon us. TemplateData, VisualEditor and TimedText are three examples. We are trying to be user friendly, and obscure capitalization is not that. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:10, 6 November 2014 (UTC).

Do you have an idea for a task and could you imagine mentoring that task?

For example, do you have something on mind that needs documentation, research, some gadget issues, or any templates to port to Lua on your "To do" list but you never had the time? If yes, please go to mw:Google Code-in 2014, check out the "Mentor's corner", and add your task there (please add tasks until Sunday even if it's only a stub - we can still polish them until December 1st when the contest begins)! And if something is unclear, please ask on the talk page. Happy to help! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 21:11, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

The reason is complications related to the last two items. In response to widespread political, Islamic and other rejection of the name "Islamic State", Wikipedia has kept with the use of the longer title: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant but we still use reference to the self-declared "Islamic State" in the history section.

At present the links in the template display as follows:

With the second line currently presented as:

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant  (2013–14)

I appreciate the futility of the piping used which was in an attempt to remove the bold effect.

Help/advice would be appreciated. Gregkaye ✍♪ 09:30, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Gregkaye}} There are at least two techniques, both of my suggestions involve a piped link. One is to link to a redirect; the other is to link to an anchor near or at the very top of the page - that is, add the fragment #content thus Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - content being the value of the first id= attribute in the body section of any Wikipedia page, in both Vector and MonoBook. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:40, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

::20px - Redrose64 thank-you. 10:38, 3 November 2014 edited Gregkaye ✍♪ 10:43, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:::{{ec}} {{replyto|Gregkaye}} I amended it. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:40, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

::::{{replyto|Gregkaye}} You don't need to {{diff|Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant|prev|632264416|do this}}, because id="top" is already defined in the page, as is id="content". The advantage of content is that it's further up than top. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:09, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Thanks again Gregkaye ✍♪ 11:16, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:You could use something like this for all of the links so that whatever page the template lands on, the current page isn't in bold font:

::{{#ifeq: {{PAGENAME}} | Village pump (technical) | Village pump (technical) | Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}

:which gives:

::{{#ifeq: {{PAGENAME}} | Village pump (technical) | Village pump (technical) | Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}

:—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

::{{tl|No selflink}} does this. It appears Gregkaye wants a link but not in bold. I don't know why. The bold text when navboxes are displayed on the linked page is standard and many readers expect it. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:23, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

:::PrimeHunter & Gregkaye I agree that this is the expected/desired behavior so I reverted it to a simple link. I've included the sidebar on several pages, including those listed as names, and the behavior (bold link on self page) is repeated. There's a discussion not to include it on the ISIL page anyway due to space and redundancy concerns.~Technophant (talk) 05:17, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::PrimeHunter Just to put you in the picture the suggestion for the change was made, I think sensibly, by P123ct1 with comment. 'Putting "Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant" in bold is not necesssary and spoils the layout.' The two final links both direct to the main article page of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

::As far as presentation of the template on the main article page is concerned a potential ideal could be for neither of these links to display. There have been long discussions related to article title usage and, if of interest, these are found at Talk:Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#Moratorium_on_Requested_Moves. Gregkaye ✍♪ 07:31, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:It's a nice idea but it would require a change in MediaWiki as far as I can see. We can "almost" do something about it here at the English Wikipedia but it fails because '{' and '}' are at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Forbidden characters. That means a search on "{{navbox}}" [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%7B%7Bnavbox%7D%7D&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go] does not display MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new to registered users who can create mainspace pages. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%7b%7bnavbox%7d%7d&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go&uselang=qqx uselang=qqx] does not show any MediaWiki message called with the search term, unlike for example [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=nosuchpage&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go&uselang=qqx]. If MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new had been displayed like on normal searches then we could have used $1 to check for searches of form {{...}} and test whether ... is the name of a template. We could not have redirected to the template but we could have linked to it at top of the search results. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

::A Mediawiki change is what I had in mind and what I assumed it would be. It would be nice for every language to have this ability. Also, the templates appear on the dropdown menu so you don't have to hit the enter key and pick it from the results page. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 02:45, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:::MediaWiki changes need to be filed at bugzilla:. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:07, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

::::{{re| Oiyarbepsy}} it's usually better to explain the problem or need, rather than ask for some specific proposed solution.

::::if i understand the need, it's something like this: "when editing an article using "edit source" (if you have VE installed) or "Edit" (if you don't), i find a template, and i wish to get directly to the template page".

::::if this indeed represents the need, then the answer is: when editing a page, a list of all templates transcluded in it (including indirect transclusion, i.e., templates used by other templates transcluded in the page) appear at the bottom of the page. use this to get directly to the desired template (unfortunately, i think this is missing when editing a section - i don't know why).

::::it might be a cute enhancement to allow searches starting with "{{" to pretend they begin with "Template:", and it's possible to create a script that will do that for you (to demonstrate, i whipped up User:קיפודנחש/CuteSearch.js), but i do not think it will be a good idea to make it the default behavior: the search tool should be optimized for the needs of the readers. for the editors, we have "advanced search" (click the magnifying glass icon in the search box), which allows you to determine which namespace/s will be searched.

::::peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 17:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::The advanced search misses the point. I'm talking about cases where I know exactly what the template is called because I just copypasted it from wikicode. This is about saving time when I know exactly where I'm going. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:52, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Also, I wasn't requesting a Mediawiki revision, I just assumed that would be required to make it happen. I sometimes assume wrong. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:53, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::{{re| Oiyarbepsy}} you might want to try the script i linked above. worst comes to worst, if it doesn't do what you want, uninstall it. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 06:29, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::{{ping|קיפודנחש}} Works great, thank you. Maybe you should list it on WP:User scripts. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 03:13, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::@{{u|קיפודנחש|kipod}}: Would it be possible for a search box containing e.g. "{{foo" to not only show pages starting with "Template:Foo" in the dropdown list of results, but also lead to Template:Foo if Enter is pressed? SiBr₄ (talk) 09:01, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::::{{re|Oiyarbepsy}} - i doubt this little hack is worth it. there are hundreds of little snippers like this in userspace (quite a few of them in *my* userspace), and only a few are worth promoting to WP:US. personally i do not think this is one of them (if enough people feel it is, i'll add it there). i will add a comment at the top of the page informing myself that this may be used by others, so i won't wipe it out if i feel it ended its useful life. {{re|SiBr4}} - i'm pretty sure it's possible, but i do not think i'll invest the time to learn how it done and do it. anyone who wants to copy this to their own userspace and play with it is welcome (one might think of other similar "helpers" - e.g., if the search term begins with "קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 14:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

• Those particular templates are intended for extended absences from Wikipedia (like when you'll be away for a week during finals and similar), and not for day to day on/offline type status. You could take advantage of parser functions and magic words to do what you want, in essence writing your own wrapper template. Such a template would follow the exact pattern and would never deviate from it. If you would like help with this, I'd be happy to give it a go (shouldn't be too hard for someone experienced in complex templates). I'll need to know your timezone and what schedule you want it to cycle through. Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 15:44, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks much for the response! I'm in Eastern Standard Time in North America, and I have school from 7:24 - 13:51 from Monday till Friday from September (or very late August) till May or till early to mid June (it really depends on the circumstances). The reason why I liked that "atschool" template was because it said that I "might possibly be able to edit on occasion", because that is true enough, though I wanted it to be clear that there was no guarantee that such would be the case on any given day. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 20:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

• Being in EST, it can't be 100% automagical, as there is no way via template to deal with DST at the moment (the logic is in the parser function, but since Wikipedia uses UTC, we can't access it here on this wiki). So, at the start of the school year, you'll want to put the code on your user page (and maybe on your talk page edit notice). You'll also have to change the -5 hours to -4 hours when the change happens in the spring and the -4 hours to -5 hours when the change happens in the fall. The code for the winter months (EST months - eg now) will be {{#ifexpr:{{#time:N|-5 hours}} <=5|{{#ifexpr:{{#time:G|-5 hours}} > 7|{{#ifexpr:{{#time:G|-5 hours}} < 14|{{Atschool}}}}}}}} — This code will have the template only show up from 7AM - 2PM Monday-Friday. I don't think it is really a good idea to have it be any more specific than that (down to the minute), although if you really wanted to, you could do it based on what I've given you to start and the #time parser function documentation. Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 22:35, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
• :Thanks much! I really appreciate it! Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 22:42, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
• :@{{u|Technical 13|T13}}: There is a formula to calculate DST dates in the EU at Summer Time in Europe#Exact transition dates; I use a parser function-driven DST switch based on that formula on my userpage. I think a similar trick should be possible for North American DST rules too. SiBr₄ (talk) 23:03, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
• ::This can probably be done with Template:Time, which says it takes daylight savings into account. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 00:19, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
• ::* With all my years here, I actually never came across that template before... Thanks for the heads up Mr. S. So, based on this new knowledge, the new chunk of code that you won't have to worry about making DST adjustments (although you still should comment it out during summer break) would be: {{#ifexpr:{{#time:N|{{Time/EST offset}}}} <=5|{{#ifexpr:{{#time:G|{{Time/EST offset}}}} > 7|{{#ifexpr:{{#time:G|{{Time/EST offset}}}} < 14|{{Atschool}}}}}}}} — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 00:53, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Thanks much again, Technical 13, as well as everyone else! However... this is my last year until University, so I will probably have to make changes to it or use it for something entirely different in the years to come. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 01:04, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

• {{ping|Technical 13}} Would you be kind enough to add this functionality to the {{tl|at school}} template? I'm sure Tharthan is not the only user interested in this option! SFB 18:15, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
• Due to the multiplicity of combinations of days on or off and hours of various days, I think adding it to the template in this capacity would be way too much template bloat and would be a bad idea. Perhaps you could get {{U|Mr. Stradivarius|Mr. S.}} to write a wrapper module in Lua that would allow you to set your timezone, set your days of the weeks and hours, and set which template you want transcluded during those times. Good luck! — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 18:45, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
• Who or what is going to arrange for the page to be purged at the appropriate times? -- John of Reading (talk) 19:32, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
• {{ping|Technical 13}} I checked earlier this morning, around 7:10, and the template wasn't showing, even though it should've been according to the coding. It's showing up now, but it wasn't then. Do you have any idea why this may be? Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 14:18, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
• {{ping|Tharthan}} This is probably because the displayed time isn't the current time, but the last time that the page was rendered into HTML. It has to be this way so that MediaWiki can cache its pages. If MediaWiki didn't use caching, the server load caused by rendering each page from scratch for all of Wikipedia's millions of readers would bring the site down. You can work around this by purging, which forces the server to render the page again. Purging is done through a specially formatted link; you might find it easiest to use Template:Purge for this purpose. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 15:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
• This is the main reason things like this generally aren't done on a day to day basis. While purging will update what you see, and everyone will see the right thing on their first load of the page, others won't know to purge the page to get an updated copy every time they visit. What you could do, if you are really adamant about this template, is create yourself a null edit bot that will purge your user page twice a day every day. You don't have to go through BAG for this since it is exempt as it is only making edits to your page (that aren't even really edits as they don't get logged in any way), but I'm certain there might be a few people that would frown upon this as it will add a little bit of server load to everyone for such a globally unimportant thing. Think about it. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 15:36, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:Wow that pretty weird if you ask me. AcidSnow (talk) 19:58, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::{{replyto|Fauzan}} Change your password ASAP. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:22, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:Fauzan, there are several unexpected reverts in my edit history. I have traditionally put it down to clumsy mousework on my part, and nowadays I blame oversensitive tablets. I don't worry too much. Mr Stephen (talk) 21:16, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks everyone. --Fauzan^{✆ talk}_{✉ mail} 15:08, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:What is your skin and browser? Try to clear your entire cache. Does it work when you are logged out? Do you mean a feature below or above the edit box? I have clickable character insert features in both places and both work. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:20, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::Monobook, and Pale Moon, CometBird and Firefox. All work logged out. And the feature below the edit box that used to be below the save/preview/changes button. I don't want the space between my edit window and my buttons wasted. There is now a gadget [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CharInsert CharInsert] (more camel case) that is turned on automatically, but does not seem to help. What, one wonders, was wrong with the previous working system? All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:01, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

:::Are you saying the wanted feature works when you are logged out but not logged in? Is it there when you are logged in and use vector like https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Example&action=edit&useskin=vector? Do you have CharInsert enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets? It works for me but it is above the edit summary and not below Save page. It has a drop-down box where I can choose between Insert, Wiki markup, Symbols and some special charater sets. Are you referring to another feature than this? I haven't examined all the stuff in User:Rich Farmbrough/monobook.js. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:31, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::::# Clearing cache makes no difference.

::::# There used, for many years, to be a built in character insert tool, as recently as 4th August this year. It was below the buttons (or was it?).

::::# The ambiguously dubbed "CharInsert" gadget (at the bottom of the edit window) is present logged out, but not logged in to this account.

::::# The gadget is enabled on preferences. I disabled it, and there was no difference. I re-enabled it and there was no difference. (I saved my preferences both times.)

::::# I assume CharInsert is intended to be a replacement for the original feature.

::::# CharInsert is not visible using the Vector skin, when logged in.

::::# My monobook.js stopped working some undetermined amount of time ago, probably due to a MediaWiki change breaking it.

::::All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 03:32, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

::::# Special:Gadgets is quite useful.

::::All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 03:36, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

::::It looks like MediaWiki:Edittools is the standard that I am used to, whereas MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert.js is the new gadget (which is on for everyone automatically). The nuts and bolts are at Gadget-charinsert-core.js and Gadget-charinsert-core.css MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.js and MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.css

(View source | Export)

Uses: Gadget-charinsert-core.js, Gadget-charinsert-core.css

Requires the following right:

::::So two thing to notice here, there is no such page as gadget-charinsert-core (the view source link is red), and there is apparently a need for some user-right that is hidden.

::::All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 03:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

:::::It's MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.js and MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.css. Gadget code is always in the MediaWiki namespace and doesn't display the namespace at Special:Gadgets but there should be piped links like Gadget-charinsert-core.js. The CharInsert location changed in 2012. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 104#Charinsert not working. I have CharInsert when logged in, both in MonoBook and Vector, in Firefox on Windows Vista. Do you have "Enable enhanced editing toolbar" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing? Does it help to disable it? CharInsert works for me either way. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:15, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::{{Smiley}} Yes I get that the pages are in MediaWiki namespace...

::::::Enhanced toolbar doesn't help, though it does give me a work-around since it has its own insert character tool.

::::::Thanks for all the help. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 13:52, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

:You mention your monobook.js isn't working anymore... that is a clear indication you are running or importing some broken javascript, which probably causes your browser to stop executing it alltogehter, which means CharInsert is never run. However, you also indicate it doesn't work on Vector, which does not support my theory. In any case, you should try disabling all content in your monobook.js and re-enable all code step-by-step to find the culprit, clearing your cache every step of the way. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:55, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::Yes I guess that is the next step, reluctant though I am to do anything with my js. Or I can use the advanced toolbar.

::It might (for other reasons) be worth looking at the why Special:Gadgets points to MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core instead of MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert.

::It would be nice to solve the mystery of

::All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 13:52, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

:::There are three gadgets that have the ResourceLoader {{para|rights|hidden}} parameter; they are marked as hidden because they're not available for normal enable/disable, but are linked to another gadget, which itself can be enabled and disabled in the normal way. These other gadgets are '{{int:Gadget-geonotice}}', '{{int:Gadget-charinsert}}' and '{{int:Gadget-refToolbar}}'. If you are having trouble with any of these gadgets, it might be that one half thinks it's enabled when the other half thinks it's disabled. My suggestion is to disable it and save, then enable it and save. This should get the database to sort its internal pointers out. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:53, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:Added. Materialscientist (talk) 23:16, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::Wow !!! That was a 1000% addition.
{{done}} 213.151.215.195 (talk) 22:39, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Myopia123}} I've made some tweaks to Template:Infobox cricketer and to the infobox code in the article so that infobox cricketer displays as a child infobox inside infobox officeholder. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 00:57, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|TexasAndroid}} My first thought is that this was probably caused by something in Wednesday's rollout of mw:MediaWiki 1.25/wmf6, but I don't see anything obviously related in the list of patches. I don't see anything obvious in any other recent deployments either. I also checked the recent MediaWiki-namespace changes on this wiki and found nothing, although a MediaWiki change sounds like the most likely explanation to me. In the absence of an obvious cause, probably the best next step would be to file a bug at Bugzilla so that the devs can take a look at it. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 01:41, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:: [https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73136] bug added. - TexasAndroid (talk) 14:37, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:::The inclusion of drafts in ContentNamespaces sounds like a very bad change to me. I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Drafts#Draft namespace added to ContentNamespaces. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

• Log out. Refresh your browser so you're in the default skin and preferences that 99% of our readers use. Hover your mouse pointer on the second footnote marker.^[2]
• Log in. Hover your mouse pointer on (or under, depending on your preferences settings) the second footnote marker.^[2]

In Firefox and IE on Windows 8 you will see a tooltip displaying the text supported by that source. Does it work on other operating systems and browsers?

The British Polio Fellowship, then called The Infantile Paralysis Fellowship, was founded on the 29th January 1939 by Patricia Carey, who had contracted polio aged eight, and Frederic Morena, who had contracted the disease at the age of 42, as a self-help and mutual aid society for those affected by polio. They called a meeting in January 1938 at Bloomsbury, London which was attended by 30 people and which acted as the foundation of the organisation being formed the following year.North, Barry "Something To Lean On". The British Polio Fellowship, 1999, p.1-3{{Ref supports2|{{cite book|author=Tony Gould|title=A Summer Plague: Polio and Its Survivors|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=ZpYmuhzGxq4C&pg=PA165|date=11 September 1997|publisher=Yale University Press|isbn=978-0-300-07276-1|page=165}}|"as a self-help and mutual aid society for those affected by polio."}}

{{reflist}}

Anthonyhcole (talk • contribs) 20:59, 6 November 2014‎ (UTC)

:So where is this 'magic' generated? I think it is a bad idea to mix abbreviations with links. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:10, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::I don't know what either of those sentences means. Sorry. The template was devised by User talk:Makyen at my behest - about 6 months ago I think it was. It's for those sentences and paragraphs that have content from two or more sources scattered randomly throughout them. Rather than repeat the footnote markers a dozen times throughout a short piece of text, you can just cluster them together at the end. In practice, people don't pepper such paragraphs with relevant footnote markers so it's clear what is supported by what because it looks so crap - they just leave them in a cluster at the end and leave it up to the reader and later editors to guess what supports what.

::So, have you tried it on other browsers/OSs? Did it work? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 21:17, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:Works for Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) Presto/2.12.388 Version/12.17. Mr Stephen (talk) 21:36, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::Thank you, Mr Stephen. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 22:18, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:I don't know the point of logging out and in. It's there whether you are logged in or out. It works in all five browsers I tested. In this example it is made with {{tl|Ref supports2}} which uses the feature described at ABBR tag, Wikipedia:Manual of Style#HTML elements, {{tl|abbr}}. It's a html feature and not a Wikipedia or MediaWiki feature, although it relies on MediaWiki permitting the abbr tag and passing it on to the rendered page. Hover here to see an example made directly with the abbr tag. Using it for other things than abbreviations is apparently controversial. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:54, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::I don't know which of my settings does it - or maybe it's my skin, Monobook - but when I'm logged in the abbr tag only pops up if I hover the mouse under the footnote marker. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 22:04, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::"Navigation popups" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and "Hovercards" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures can interfere by also trying to display something when you hover over a link. Below the footnote marker there is no link. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:13, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::::I've got both of those enabled, so that'll be it. Thanks, PrimeHunter. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 22:20, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::{{replyto|Anthonyhcole}} This is very closely related to Template talk:Abbr#OK to combine abbr and wikilink?. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:42, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::Thanks, Redrose64. I've got hovercards and navigation popups enabled, and they're reasonably compatible. I'm mainly interested in informing the 99.99% of our readers that don't have either of those features enabled, though. If either hovercards or popups becomes a default feature, and this Ref supports2 thing impairs their function, I'll just take it off the pages I'm using it on. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 23:50, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Per test, logged out, login again, footnote 2 underline displays "Supports ...". It appears to work as you described under Firefox 33, Ubuntu 14.04, with no mw:beta:hovercards enabled, with navigation popups enabled, and with reference tooltips enabled. As a side note, User:hedonil's XTools .js is displaying right now; sometimes those XTools are not displaying, but they are working at the same time your test displayed the text after hovering under footnote 2. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 00:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::::Thank you, Ancheta Wis. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 01:39, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::I believe that Hovercards is likely to be enabled by default at some point (weeks? months? I don't follow that product, so I don't know). User:Quiddity (WMF) might know more than I do. (I wonder if Hovercards could be adapted to play well with this?) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:41, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::::(Defaulting to laziness:) If there is incompatibility between this feature and Hovercards when Hovercards are enabled by default, I'll raise it with Quiddity. Thanks What. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 19:42, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::As far as I can tell, Hovercard never tries to make tooltips on footnote markers so it doesn't conflict with the way abbr is used in {{tl|Ref supports2}}. It conflicts if {{tl|abbr}} is used with a wikilink like here: {{abbr|Text with link|this is the tool tip}}. You can still see the abbr tooltip on the unlinked part but it gets hard if the whole part is linked like here: {{abbr|link|this is the tool tip}}. If I approach the mouse carefully from below in Firefox then I can see the abbr tooltip on a millimetre with a dotted line below the link, before Hovercard takes over. In my Firefox tests, Popups and Hovercard always "win" over abbr when there is a conflict. {{tl|Ref supports2}} is currently only used in one article. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:31, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:Perhaps someone should update the timeline at mw:Search for those who are watching that page but not the Village Pump. Chris the speller ^yack 05:31, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:: {{done}}. Thanks for catching that, I always forget to keep that chart up to date. ^demon^{[omg plz]} 15:53, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:There are two parameters, {{para|talkpage}} - which is for the page name alone - and {{para|talk}} - which is for the section name or anchor. They can't both be passed through the same parameter because of the way that it's encoded - the rules are different for URLs and fragments. I {{diff|Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct|prev|632871101|fixed it}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::The documentation falsely claimed {{para|talkpage}} could include a section heading. Oiyarbepsy corrected the documentation after the above reply but I have now modified the template [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Under_discussion&diff=632946417&oldid=575956221] to allow what the documentation said before, and modified the documentation to match this. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:14, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:Hi! Thanks for your patch! Please use mw:Developer access to submit this as a Git branch directly into Gerrit. Putting your branch in Git instead of a wikipage makes it easier to review it quickly. If you don't want to set up Git/Gerrit, you can also use the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/gerrit-patch-uploader/ Gerrit Patch Uploader]. Thanks again! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:29, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:: How can an anonymous editor use any of those tools? 84.127.115.190 (talk) 00:42, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:Beats me... The source text should look something like this (but search in MediaWiki: space turned up nothing):

$1 has been restored
Consult the deletion log for a record of recent deletions and restorations.

:-- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 12:29, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:It's the default MediaWiki:Undeletedpage. Searches in the MediaWiki namespace only find pages created at the English Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:57, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:I once downloaded Special:AllMessages 5000 at a time and stored them on my computer. That's how I easily found this one. If you guess it may have prefix "undelete" then it can quickly be found at Special:AllMessages. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:05, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::If you don't know the message prefix you can also [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&search=+Consult+the+deletion+log+for+a+record+of+recent+deletions+and+restorations.&fulltext=Search search for the text on translatewiki.net]. (Note that this only works for the default MediaWiki messages, not ones that have been customised for this wiki.) — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:18, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::You can also append the code &uselang=qqx to URLs of the form /w/index.php?... to make MediaWiki display the message names instead of the contents of the messages. However, because you have to request the page again to do this, it isn't very useful for one-time operations like undeletion. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:37, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:::and fwiw....

:::* MediaWiki:Category-empty will give you the current message - be it modified or the default - in use "site-wide". Nothing new about that; but

:::* MediaWiki:Category-empty/qqx will always give you the default message (if there is one). /just-about-anything will work too.

:::... its a quick and easy way to retrieve the default message without having to drill down through the history or dealing with Special:AllMessages for comparison, etc. -- George Orwell III (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::::{{myprefs|Gadgets|Advanced|Add a toolbox link to reload the current page with the system message names exposed.}} --  Gadget850 ^talk 13:59, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::Not effective when the page is the result of a POST action. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 14:03, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::: In cases like that, I usually use Firebug to add the "uselang=qqx" parameter to the {{tag|form|o|params=action="..."}} URL before submitting. Anomie⚔ 18:30, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

: Redirects on file pages only have effect if there is no actual file at the title. You'd have to delete the file on Commons to be able to redirect it. Anomie⚔ 18:32, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::Is there a bot at Commons that finds redirects with images uploaded? --NE2 22:49, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:Are you talking about pages which had just been edited, or about other pages which transclude them? If it's the second, it's probably just a caching issue - if absolutely necessary, try a null edit. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:54, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

{{Resolved}}

:There is a userscript you can import from Wikidata, at d:User:Yair rand/WikidataInfo.js. Add the following your common or skin-specific js:

:

mw.loader.load("//www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User:Yair rand/WikidataInfo.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript"); // Backlink: d:User:Yair rand/WikidataInfo.js

:to add a link to Wikidata under the article title, along with the ID number, description, and aliases. - Evad37 [talk] 00:00, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

::Excellent, thanks! Andrew Gray (talk) 20:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:It's probably related to this. Basically, {{tl|only in print}} stopped working recently due to software changes, which has lead to some infoboxes not rendering at all. --ais523 22:24, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::Yep. To be clear, it is the software changes that lead to infoboxes not rendering, not the fact that {{tl|only in print}} stopped working. MediaWiki [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-ambassadors/2014-September/000955.html recently switched] from using the legacy PediaPress PDF renderer to using OfflineContentGenerator. The old PDF renderer worked by using its own wikitext parser written in Python, and that was [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-ambassadors/2014-September/000957.html causing problems with maintainability]. The new architecture uses Parsoid to render pages, which solves the maintainability problems, and a lot of bugs in the old renderer have been fixed along the way. But the fact that the backend for rendering PDFs from wikitext has completely changed means that there are inevitably differences in the way the rendered pages appear. Apparently tables do not look very good with the new code, and there are an awful lot of different kinds of tables on Wikimedia sites, so as a workaround the devs stopped some of them from displaying completely. After some digging, I have found [http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FCollection%2FOfflineContentGenerator%2Flatex_renderer.git/a5fa0856246eb08e3f76fe207685f384a18353cd/lib%2Findex.js#L647 the code responsible]: it appears that HTML is removed from PDF output if it contains any of the classes "infobox", "navbox", "rellink", "dablink", "toplink", or "metadata". Apparently the WMF are looking for volunteers to work on this code, so if anyone who knows JavaScript wants to help to make infoboxes visible in print view again, please take a look at it. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 09:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:The fish: Wikipedia:Featured article review/Manila Metro Rail Transit System/archive1

:How to fish: http://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AFA-Class_Systems_articles (then view [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BfomFSneYmoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:FA-Class_Systems_articles the cached version])

:--NE2 01:00, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Percentage growth shown is too high even for one year. Value should actually be (approximately, because census-month is taken into account)
(((1 + (cur - prev) / prev)) ^ (1 / (cur_year - prev_year)) - 1 ) * 100 = {{#expr: (((1+(3610355-3054490)/3054490) ^ (1/10))-1) * 100 round 2}} and {{#expr: (((1+(4101322-3610355)/3610355) ^ (1/10))-1) * 100 round 2}}

Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Mon 10:40, wikitime= 02:40, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

: Appears to be correct, it's using percent change, not percent change per year: {{#expr:(3610355-3054490)/3054490 * 100 round 2}}%. If you want PAGR, you need to set {{para|percentages|pagr}}. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:59, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

::Well I'll be ...! Why's it set like that? (NB omitting {{para|percentages}} defaults to {{para|percentages|PAGR}}) Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Mon 11:27, wikitime= 03:27, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:Having an article change out from under a reader is a terrible idea. Jackmcbarn (talk) 02:25, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

::In that case, the ability to see any web page change instantly could be an option whose default is to be turned off that anyone can turn on in internet options. Blackbombchu (talk) 17:39, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

::The purpose of an article changing right in front of people's eyes was so that more edits could be undone, not so that they will always be reading the current. The number of people who would benefit from the edit being undone when they read the article after the edit is undone is much greater than the number of people who would just happen to be reading it when it got edited. Blackbombchu (talk) 00:14, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Having an edit change the article while your editing (without the preview button) is one of the features of the visual editors, altho it does have some flaws. But Jack McBarn is right about readers, they should see a static page unless they hit the reload button. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 02:43, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

:Web pages that change frequently (not necessarily instantly) do exist (they do it by means of the {{tag|meta|s|params=http-equiv="Expires" content="..."}} element); the ones that I've encountered are mainly those with live coverage of a sports match. Test cricket is an excellent example; the match lasts five days, but the page can update several times per over. But Wikipedia is not a news feed. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:16, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

::Except for talk pages, which, while not a news feed, are a defacto discussion board. I presume that WP:Flow will live update. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:54, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::User:Quiddity (WMF) should be able to tell us whether that's planned. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Oiyarbepsy}} Maybe Wikipedia should instead work in such a way that each registered user can turn on or off the ability to see edits popup right in front of their eyes when they're logged in. I never saw the visual editor in Wikipedia even when I was using Google Chrome so I don't know if it works the same way as the one in http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Speedy_deletion_Wiki Speedy deletion Wiki but the one in Speedy deletion Wiki is very cumbersome to edit mathematical expressions using {{tl|sfrac}} so it might be better to have the option of using the source editor and displaying an updating preview after you click 'Show preview' anyway. Blackbombchu (talk) 22:20, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

::::I see no problem with such a preference, but I suspect it might be technically challenging to auto-update as you type wikicode. It seems like it would require some sort of split screed with wikicode on one side and the resulting page on the left (otherwise you lose your code box when you scroll to the top). I'm not a techie, so I don't know if there is a technical challenge in doing this. As far as Visual Editor, it's not perfect, I use it for some edits and not others, and usually anything with templates I use wikicode. I don't work with math much, so I have no opinion on that. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 23:04, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::I think it is still possible for it to work on Google Chrome. Google Chrome can do all sorts of things that didn't used to be possible on other browsers. Blackbombchu (talk) 02:02, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::We shouldn't create browser-specific features. It's bad enough having browser-specific workarounds for the likes of IE. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:23, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:This would need a change to Module:Wikipedia ads. Looking at the module code gives me an urge to rewrite the whole thing, and especially to change the format of Module:Wikipedia ads/list. It could be possible to add a hack to make the images resizable until someone gets around to rewriting it, but personally I would prefer a rewrite. If you want to have bigger ads straight away, you can add a random Wikipedia ad directly to your userpage by using File:Qxz-ad{{#invoke:random. This displays a random file from :File:Qxz-ad1.gif to :File:Qxz-ad235.gif, with a width of 800px. Some files using this pattern of filename do not exist, however, so when those files are randomly selected, the code won't work. And it won't detect new ads. But for the most part, that code should do what you want. Change the width to suit your setup. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 10:40, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

::{{ping|!dea4u}} Sorry, it looks like I completely misread the module code (and the template documentation). It's already possible to change the width of Wikipedia ads with the {{para|width}} parameter. There is more info in the template documentation. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 18:44, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:::An update: I've just found out that I wasn't actually going crazy - Frietjes [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AWikipedia_ads&diff=632715281&oldid=624832442 added] the width parameter on 6 November, pretty soon after I made my first post in this section. I've since completely rewritten the module (and fixed a few bugs and instances of invalid HTML); hopefully now it will be easier to read and maintain, particularly for people who are adding new ads. The new version also supports the width parameter, so you can keep using it as before. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 11:45, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

::::*{{Great}}, {{ping|Mr. Stradivarius}} Thank you for guidance on this case and updation of module. Yes, you were right about Frietjes [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AWikipedia_ads&diff=632715281&oldid=624832442 adding] the width parameter at later stage. Same was also shared by him on Template_talk:Wikipedia_ads#Change_in_Dimensions( !dea4u  06:53, 12 November 2014 (UTC))

::::::{{ping|!dea4u}} You're welcome. Also, Frietjes is a her, not a him. :) — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 07:46, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

:For me the mobile page displays fine – everything is shown except the navbox (which is usual for mobile view). SiBr₄ (talk) 15:30, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

::Same for me. Caching issue? -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 15:44, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:::It was the first time that I'd been to the page in mobile view; I only went there because of this thread (I went there in desktop view a few months ago when the Booker noms were announced, and wanted to check out what else David Mitchell had written). --Redrose64 (talk) 15:56, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

::::Is this still happening for you? Do you have a different mobile device/OS/browser than SiBr4 and Edokter? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:28, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::It's now working; I don't have a mobile device, I was using a regular browser (Firefox 33) and clicking the "Mobile view" link at the bottom. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:Could you please directly add a comment to bugzilla:20825 how you are using that font and with which MediaWiki version and extension version? Thanks in advance! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:39, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:: How can an IP editor comment in Bugzilla?

:: I am not using MediaWiki. I run the PHP file directly.[//www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension:EasyTimeline/installation&oldid=1249585#Download_PHP.2FPERL_scripts] 84.127.115.190 (talk) 01:06, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Commenting in Bugzilla requires a completely separate registration process. It also publishes your e-mail address to the world. In a few weeks, Bugzilla's contents will be migrated to :Phabricator:, at which point editors' normal login will work. But until then, everyone has to register separately, regardless of whether you normally edit logged-in or logged-out. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:08, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Is it possible with SQL (I would like to stick to the Access) to get something like this:

This is just an example. The real table could contain much more rows with different and with more years. --Aswan fan (talk) 11:02, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Aswan fan}} This is the page for discussing technical issues that arise in Wikipedia. Your query is really a matter for WP:RD/C. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:37, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::Thank you! --Aswan fan (talk) 09:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

:What problem are you trying to solve? We will be better able to help you if you give us more details about what you are trying to achieve. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:38, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Sardanaphalus}} ping. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:40, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::I have sometimes wanted the same. I don't know about Sardanaphalus but my purpose is usually to look for undocumented parameters so I can use them in template calls or add them to documentation. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:50, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::* Thanks for the prompt responses. Prime Hunter's scenario is the context: undocumented parameters within lengthy templates. Sardanaphalus (talk) 14:07, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::::For wikitext templates, perhaps this could be done with Parsoid? I'm not at all sure of the details on that, though. For Lua modules, there's no way that I know of to do this automatically, and writing the code to do it would be very difficult as you need to be able to parse arbitrary Lua code. To do it manually, though, a simple text search for "args" will usually do the trick, as that is the standard name for a module's arguments table. A parameter named "foo" can look like {{code|args.foo|lua}} or {{code|args["foo"]|lua}}. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 14:59, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::There's a clever trick invented (IIRC) by {{u|Davidgothberg|David Gothberg}} and/or {{u|Amalthea}} that does something like that, in template code. Trouble is it's so clever I can never remember it. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 19:36, 9 November 2014 (UTC).

::::::For regular (i.e. non-Lua) templates I look for triple opening braces. If there are a lot, I copy the template's wikisource to a text editor, and use regexps to insert a newline before each set of triple opening braces, before each pipe, and before each set of triple closing braces. Then I save the file, grep for the triple opening braces and send it through sort and uniq which gives me my param list. For Lua templates, it's worse than as described by Mr. Stradivarius because the args list might not be in the main module; you've got to search all the submodules too - if you can work out which they are. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:45, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Yep, that's why I said "usually". :) Another problem is the ability to use a variable as an argument table key. For example, with the code {{code|args['data' .. i]|lua}} you would have to work out what all the possible values of i are to find all the possible parameters that will be accepted. And there is also the ability to reassign the args table to a different variable, meaning that the same table might not be called "args" at all. To make a complete list of parameters, you have to understand the module code, or at least the parts of it that involve the arguments table. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 03:07, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

You might want to invoke TemplateDataGenerator once within template or template documentation page, looking at preview and compare displayed output with already known and documented parameters. Module:TemplateDataGenerator is locally available. You could also use a recent TemplateData Utility which produces the same list of detected parameters, but the module offers sorting and works also on doc page. Greetings --PerfektesChaos (talk) 19:58, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

:{{re|Sardanaphalus}} look at "Template parameters wizard" in WP:JS. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 20:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:See #Download as PDF does not print infoboxes. ZIM might come back at some time. See Help talk:Books#ePub format vanished. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:54, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

::Related bug report: bugzilla:71660. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:It's not surprising that most fonts don't support cuneiform. The freely available Assyrian font [http://www.hethport.uni-wuerzburg.de/cuneifont/ here] works for me; the Gilgamesh article renders properly after it is installed. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 17:26, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:Template:Script/Cuneiform might be helpful.—Wavelength (talk) 17:32, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

:We should probably implement a template like {{tl|contains Chinese text}} to indicate to readers that they can install a font supporting cuneiform. I'll draft a template at {{tl|contains cuneiform text}}. Would someone please create or find an appropriate and representative image for such a template? {{Nihiltres|talk|edits}} 19:07, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

::That seems like a good idea - displaying characters in a font that few readers will have support for and not providing an explanation isn't particularly helpful. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:14, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::How about 24px? VanIsaac_WS^cont 06:44, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:::I set a lang/script tag on the template {{tl|Script/Cuneiform}}. That might enable the webfonts download to kick in for those who don't have a compatible font installed locally. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::::{{ping|TheDJ}} is there any documentation about those tags and the effect they have on possible downloads of webfonts - including limitations and such? There was a question here some week back that might have benefitted from the same approach, and I'd like to know how it works. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 09:54, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::ULS docs. Interestingly, cuneiform is actually shown as an example there.. Actually, this was working before without the lang tag..... I wonder if the additional font [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AScript%2FCuneiform&diff=627687195&oldid=622200078 added by a user] recently disabled the autoloading... Or am I just seeing things and I didn't change a thing with my addition of the lang tag and was the original reporting user just using a browser that doesn't support webfonts or did he have ULS disabled ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:12, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::{{tl|cuneiform}} doesn't render any cueniform symbols for me in the examples, and I don't see any font downloads in my console. Am I not understanding what it's supposed to be doing, or is it broken? (or maybe both!) Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:37, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Just tried it, Akkadian.woff downloads: [https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-current/extensions/UniversalLanguageSelector/data/fontrepo/fonts/Akkadian/Akkadian.woff?version=2.56 Akkadian.woff]. Not sure what browser you are using. And what ULS settings... —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::Yes, it downloads for me, as well, and the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UniversalLanguageSelector#Using_Webfonts cuneiform displays as well, in the example] link, ULS docs. (Firefox 33) Vanisaac's svg above looks like cuneiform to me, also. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 14:42, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::::Oh dear, are you implying I should have read something before making bold statements? This is unacceptable! (I'll come back to this if I can reproduce after reading the manual). Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 14:09, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

As the title says; it shows nothing. Anyone know why? -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 13:51, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:What have you tried so far? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:28, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::Nothing... and it seems to be working again. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:14, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:::It was reported on IRC a few hours ago. Problem was identified and a workaround was put in place. Basically the HHVM hosts are missing a required library for the Math extension. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:47, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Just before ==REferences== lies too much space.174.3.125.23 (talk) 16:27, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:That looks like that because the second column of notes is one line longer than the first column. Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:40, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

:+1, It seems to be all in order. I understand where you're coming from though. Because the section above it is two columns, which together form a block, and the block is spaced from the top of the text references (which is on the left side) to the bottom of the block (which is on the right side, because there is right column is lower than the left) the amount of white space seems too large. I'm not sure if that should be changed, and if so, how. Thanks for the report tho! Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:48, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

::A little space is always there because of unequal column height. However, Chrome has a bug that does not take orphan list items into account when calculating the necessary column height, which may amplify the effect. -- User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:37, 11 November 2014 (UTC)