User talk:Plantdrew#top

This is Scorpions1325/6 letting you know that your request at WP:RM has been fulfilled. Happy editing. The Knowledge Pirate (talk) 19:27, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

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The article :Listia (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Disambiguation page not required (WP:ONEOTHER). Primary topic article has a hatnote to the only other use.

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:57, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello! Forgive the unusual request, I noticed you were one of the active users editing in the area of arthropods, and the last user to edit the relevant page.

I have lately been clearing through the category of pages citing retracted sources to determine which ones are intentional citations and which ones are needing some other fix or outright removal (category: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_citing_retracted_publications]). Some of these require more delicate handling from someone who is more familiar with the topic. The page Longipedia currently cites a source from 2017 retracted for issues with the data [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longipedia#cite_note-:3-4]. What makes this difficult to remove outright is that it seems this paper influenced a change in the taxonomy. As this is well outside my depth, I am asking that you take a look at it to see how the page should reflect the retraction, or that if this is not within the scope of your knowledge or interests if you happened to know any editors who would be more suitable. Relm (talk) 08:26, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

: The taxonomic changes were accepted by the World of Copepods Database (WoRMS). The page for [https://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=1035042#notes Canuelloida]] has a note on the retraction: ".. the ICZN has just passed Declaration 46, the proposed Amendment to Article 8 (reaffirming the ineffectiveness of subsequent disclaimers, and retractions with respect to published works, available names and nomenclatural acts in zoological nomenclature) of the Code. The Canuelloida is therefore available for this ordinal level taxon." The ICZN decision is only on the validity of the name, i.e. the paper remains the correct one for author of the taxon name. But WoRMS continue to accept the new order. Perhaps the solution is to change the reference to WoRMS or include both with the intentional tag. —  Jts1882 | talk  09:31, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:: Seems that wasn't the first paper to propose that order Harpacticoida needed splitting, so the now retracted paper is only been used as authorship of the taxon name (following the ICZN decision). There is a 2025 study by [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1055790325000284 Bernot et al, 2025] confirming the result, which also be used as secondary source for split proposal. I think this can replace the retracted paper.  —  Jts1882 | talk  10:49, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

I did some digging, and I found out that the prolific zoology stub creator {{u|Pvmoutside}} died the day after he made his last edit. If you want, you can leave a comment on his talk page. {{u|MeegsC}}, {{u|William Avery}}, {{u|BeanieFan11}}, {{u|Robert McClenon}} you all interacted with him at some point. The Knowledge Pirate (talk) 00:38, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

:I was aware, and had sent one or two emails when users posted to his talk page. As the user never acknowledged a real-life identity, I was concerned that it might constitute doxxing. William Avery (talk) 08:47, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hymenophyllum_multifidum&diff=next&oldid=1282181794:

> added Category:Hymenophyllum using HotCat; iNaturalist does not list any varieties (and is not a suitable source for taxonomy on Wikipedia; Wikipedia and iNat both generally follow POWO, so POWO should be cited, not iNat)

You're right that it doesn't. This is weird, though, as those varieties were suggested from the template from iNaturalist, which is how I initially scaffold these articles. Is iNaturalist getting it wrong somehow? Should I make a PR to their platform about varieties? Richlitt (talk) 01:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{Ping|Richlitt}}, I am in the habit of checking all lists of varieties/subspecies sourced to iNaturalist in newly created plant articles. I started this habit because there was a time in which iNaturalist did not display ranks for plant infraspecies (at least as far as I could tell), and I wanted to confirm that the rank was either variety or subspecies. iNaturalist does now display subspecies/variety rank in a way that I can tell, but I believe this is a pretty recent change. I am not at all certain that iNaturalist hasn't been storing the rank in way that I couldn't tell for some time, but only recently started displaying it (while looking for an example of a plant subspecies on iNat, I came across this taxon swap [https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/31719 from 2018] that doesn't display any rank, but the [https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/509418-Aquilegia-vulgaris-nevadensis inactivated taxon record] from the swap does display a rank (although not in the URL that ends with 509418-Aquilegia-vulgaris-nevadensis).

:I have two suspicions about what might be happening on the iNat end. One is that iNat links from a species to its infraspecies might be getting broken if they are now relying on an infraspecies rank being specified somewhere, and the rank is absent. The other is that iNat curators might be actively inactivating iNat taxon pages for infraspecies with no observations (and no indication of rank).

:I edited Celmisia discolor after you created it, and I'm certain I checked iNat at that time. There are 3 varieties listed in the Wikipedia article. iNat now shows only one variety. POWO still lists 3.

:I'm not an iNat curator, but if I was, I would absolutely be scrutinizing any plant infraspecies with no specified rank. And from what I understand about iNat's approach to taxonomy, there's a better chance of Wikipedia at least listing SPECIES of obscure non-plant/fungus/animal eukaryotes than there is of iNat doing so. Wikipedia is not at all devoted to having any articles for plant infraspecies. If I were an iNat curator I would not be creating pages for taxa with no observations there.

:If you want to start any future article from an iNat provided template that includes infraspecies, I would suggest that you refrain from doing so until posting on iNat forums/curator areas or Wikipedia Tree of Life so we can figure out exactly what is going on with the iNat Wikipedia template. Plantdrew (talk) 02:35, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::Interesting. I'll keep a lookout for the next template that has this information, and see if I can get some more information out of iNaturalist about it. Richlitt (talk) 19:40, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi,

Screen readers e.g. for the blind will incorrectly read the spanish spelling yerba mate as 'yerba mate' with 3 syllables, whereas the anglicized spelling yerba maté will be rendered correctly with 4. Per ACCESSIBILITY, we should use the anglicized spelling. I know people complain that's not spanish, but we're not writing in spanish, and unless we label it as such, screen readers will not interpret it as spanish. — kwami (talk) 22:47, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Kwamikagami}}, that could be a good point to bring up in a requested move (provided that screen readers actually read mate and maté differently; I just tested the NVDA screenreader and it read the words with and without the accent the same). But the current titles were the result of requested moves, so any change to the title should go through a new requested move discussion (and the form of the word used in the text of the article should follow the title). Start a requested move discussion if you think the title is wrong. Plantdrew (talk) 00:16, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

::Okay.

::We often call it just 'mate' in the articles, though, and I suspect that even your NVDA reader will pronounce that as one syllable. — kwami (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Reply to|Plantdrew}}

Please can you delete/request admin deletion of your newly created redirect "Burara etelka" to Bibasis. I've just spent a week and a half trying to get admins to remove a bunch of conflicting redirects, and a week before that with a pending request for comments (which got no response) on the direction of change on the WikiProject Lepidoptera before that - done at request of another admin who didn't want to assist without it. Go to the page for the Family Coeliadinae, where i setup inline with modern schemes. Burara has 14 species since several recent studies, including detailed morphological revision of each species, and same in more recent published genomic analysis. Here on enwiki, "Bibasis etelka" was the last of several where it had needed admins to undo the existing opposite schem. When i looked in this morning, i saw that an(other) admin had now deleted the last blocking redirect - after the request had been pending for two days, and following prior action of admin had randomly declined the revision request without explanation. Stupidly, i didn't jump on it this morning to finally move of "Bibasis etelka", and now i've got time then you've newly created another (brand new) blocking redirect. In hopes to pre-empt others, i'd even put a bunch of text in "Bibasis etelka" to explain justification for it needing to move to be Burara etelka. Any questions feel free to ask, i've been trying to get multiple biodiversity databases on this genus for about 3 weeks, it's not something i haven't thought on, nor a topic unfamiliar to me. This species was the last one ....Arggghh! Sjl197 (talk) 18:54, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Sjl197}}, you should be able to move the article to Burara etelka is that is what you want to do. That redirect only has one edit, so it should not be blocking the move. Are you unable to execute the move yourself?

:I was utterly mystified by Significa liberdade's edit summary "Reversing a redirect. For updated scientific name combination of this insect, needs deletion of blocking redirect to make room for an uncontroversial page move, category G6", since that appeared to make a new redirect (albeit one with a single edit, and thus able to be to moved over) rather than deleting anything. It was no help to me figuring out what was intended when the taxobox continued to be for Bibasis, and the sources for Burara aren't fully cited.

:Try making the move yourself. If it doesn't work I can request speedy deletion of the Burara etelka redirect. Plantdrew (talk) 19:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

::You created the new redirect. I'm kindly asking you to undo what you just did. The line "Reversing a redirect. For updated ... (blah blah)" was just a direct quote from my exasperated own text. Those words were mine, includes in the text of G6 "Speedy deletion" requests, which after i'd finally learnt how the heck to submit such requests in a suitable format, were to try to say something to help admin make informed decisions. Look at my user talk page where "Significa liberdade" had actions the last couple of admin level deletions of blocking redirects.

::Above, my reply to you here was to explain how that simple action from your viewpoint just [again] complicated what i had spend effectively more than two weeks with multiple communications with various people to solve! At least for yourself, i appreciate your knoweledge, experience and interest in biological organisms, unlike most on enwiki who can action any higher level changes. Please don't ask me to sumbit the request myself, you've just caused this new complication. Feel free to talk to "Significa liberdade"

::User talk:Sjl197#c-Significa liberdade-20250325224200-Sjl197-20250325130000 Sjl197 (talk) 19:28, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

:::{{Reply to|Plantdrew}} Ok, i took a break, came back and gave what you said a read again. You're right, i was able to make the move, i was blind to some of your words above as i'd gotten extremely exasperated with all that was needed to edit JUST ONE genus of butterflies here (on enwiki) over many days. The previous redirect that was deleted was complex with multiple edits, as were other redirects for several the other species. Those i'd finally got removed before over last days after a long process. I didn't know that a single edited redirect *could* be overwritten, i (wrongly) thought one of us had to go through the deletion request process again. I was asking you to take responsibility. I reacted badly to your asking me to do it (i.e. yet again!). Anyway, it's now moved. Yes the taxobox needs changing, yes other bits need changing. I'm trying to get this and all done linked together correctly with wikidata, wikispecies etc. I've also been updating them in several non-wiki sources. I'm stepping away from this for today, and kindly asking you to do same. Sjl197 (talk) 19:43, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Sjl197}}, I generally have no trouble getting species articles moved to the currently accepted name via Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests. I see you tried to go that route with Burara anadi. I'm not sure why your request languished without action for days before being [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Technical_requests&diff=next&oldid=1281027256 removed] from the technical requests and reinstated as Requested Move discussion. I assume the editor who removed it from the technical requests and reinstated as a Requested Move just wanted to clear a backlog and wasn't sure what to do with it.

::::I think your request there may have been a little overly wordy, which could have made it less clear to the editors who could act on it. You don't need to bring up anything about "blocking redirects" there. It should be assumed that any move at the Technical requests has a blocking redirect (that's exactly what the Technical requests are for). Saying "back to an older combination" may have also been confusing to potential movers.

::::I think I would have written something like "The currently accepted name for this species is Burara anadi, with Bibasis anadi as a synonym", and nothing more than that.

::::Nominating a blocking redirect for speedy deletion via G6 and then moving the article yourself not the usual of accomplishing updates to scientific name, and I suspect there are fewer editors with deletion permissions monitoring G6 requests then there are editors with move permissions monitoring Technical move requests, so it may take longer to see the action you want if you go the G6 route than the Technical move route. Plantdrew (talk) 21:08, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for time you committed to reviewing the DYK for Aquilegia shockleyi. While I can testify from personal experience and some recent literature on the subject (including what I cited for my expansion of Aquilegia vulgaris) that some columbines are generally safe to eat, you've got a point in us erring to the side of caution. I would hate for someone to get the wrong idea about the safety of columbines when many species are toxic and those that are tend to hybridized with cultivated forms. I'm going to submit an alternative hook. Please let me know if you see any outstanding issues on the article. Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 03:28, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for the barnstar. Plantdrew (talk) 05:54, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

You're invited to the Philodendron Garden Party!, which seeks to create and improve Wikipedia's coverage of the genus Philodendron from April 15 to May 31. Feel free to share ideas and results!

Happy editing and happy gardening! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:04, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:26, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

@Plantdrew

Hello, I recently noticed you removed the status of the bocaccio rockfish for the Puget Sound population, as well as the general status.

While I agree that it isn't very common to have it in that format, I believe reinstating the status as two separate descriptions helps to provide more info on the status, especially in the Puget Sound population, providing insight into the fishery for that area. In accordance with the Distinct Population Segment listing as a separate entity under the endangered species act, listing them as separate will improve the information on the page, even if not in a traditional format.

NOAA bocaccio listings as separate pages to differentiate, for example:

[https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/bocaccio-protected] [https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/bocaccio]

Additionally, let me know if this is still the case to not include due to wikipedia policies, as I may have designated separate population segments on other pages, and I will accordingly remove them.

Thank you, and I hope you have a nice evening! Breezygamer117 (talk) 05:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Breezygamer117}}, it hasn't come up enough for their to be a Wikipedia policy about it. There are a lot of governments and NGOs doing conservation statuses; many of these assess the status regionally, rather than globally. Wikipedia Taxoboxes parameters only supports a few status systems. When there's been discussion about adding support to the Taxobox for additional status systems used in a particular country, consensus has been that it should only be applied to endemic species (i.e., where a regional status is effectively also a global one). Taxobox support for the US Endangered Species Act has kind of been grandfathered in; it was added in the early days of Wikipedia.

:Detailed regional or population-level conservation statuses can always be discussed in the body of an article, outside of the Taxobox.

:But the primary reason I ended up removing all the statuses from bocaccio rockfish is that the references and parameters were messed up. The source for the the EN status of the Puget Sound population was the IUCN, and the source for the NT status was the NOAA page that mentioned that the Puget Sound population (and didn't mention a "near threatened" status for other populations).

:The actual status in the IUCN Red List database is CR (which was done in 1998, before the most recent IUCN criteria were adopted). I find CR hard to believe. I wouldn't necessarily expect every IUCN assessed CR species to get listed under the ESA. But I would expect if CR status was warranted, the US government, at some point between 1998 and 2024, would have shut the fishery entirely. There are Rather than repeat an outdated IUCN status that I suspected was incorrect, I removed it entirely (but a case could be made for including it under Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth).

:And if do want to include an ESA Endangered status in a taxobox, you should use "status = LE" and "status_system = ESA", not the IUCN parameters. Plantdrew (talk) 02:17, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you for the reply, I found it very helpful! In that case, I'll add it as LE under ESA in that case, and leave off the Puget sound description. Also, I found an interesting report from 2017, which I'll read over before re-adding, but in all likelihood I'll add EN while citing the NOAA article.

::https://www.pcouncil.org/documents/2017/02/stock-assessment-update-status-of-bocaccio-sebastes-paucispinis-in-the-conception-monterey-and-eureka-inpfc-areas-for-2017.pdf/ Breezygamer117 (talk) 03:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

We should use the plural form "Vertebrates" instead of "Vertebrate" for the name parameter in the taxobox. Jako96 (talk) 21:41, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Jako96}}, {{para|name}} is an ancient kludge. Taxoboxes were the first infoboxes, and {{para|name}} spread to other infoboxes as they were developed. As I understand it, {{para|name}} was intended to provide a title/header at the top of an infobox. I'm not sure why an infobox header was ever considered necessary, but modern infoboxes derive it from the article title without any need for {{para|name}} to be provided. And they do so in fairly sophisticated ways; infoboxes know to strip out any parenthetical disambiguation in the article title. For subject areas where titles are italicized, infoboxes provide italics not just for the infobox header, but the article titles as well (article titles aren't just italicized for species and genera, but also for creative works (sculptures, paintings, film, TV shows) and ships, among other topics).

:There have been discussions about whether articles about higher taxa should be written in the singular or plural. The only documentation about this that I am aware of is it at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Plants#Singular_and_plural_with_the_names_of_taxa, which says that either is acceptable (but grammar should be consistent with that choice).

:Digging through the early archives of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life and Template talk:Taxobox, I can't find any discussions about using {{para|name}} to pluralize the infobox header of higher taxa (and the examples of taxoboxes I came across include examples of both singular and plural headers).

:The advice in Template:Taxobox#Name to pluralize infobox headers for higher taxa via {{para|name}} was originally added to Wikipedia in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ATaxobox_usage&diff=37396506&oldid=34177921 this diff] and appears to just be the preference of the editor who added it, apparently without any discussion. It is not a standard that was ever consistently adopted on Wikipedia. If there was actually consensus to pluralize infobox headers for higher taxa, it could be handled automatically in many cases, the same way that infobox headers now automatically handle italics and parenthetical disambiguation.

:In short, {{para|name}} in infoboxes is relic of early Wikipedia history. There is no consensus to use it to pluralize taxobox headers, just an overlooked edit by a single editor in documentation that few people read. It is almost never necessary (the single current use case I see for it with taxoboxes is providing a reference for a vernacular name used as an article title). Plantdrew (talk) 02:30, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

::Then why should we use the name parameter in other articles and not Vertebrate? Jako96 (talk) 11:37, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

: In general the name above the taxobox should match the article title. This was needed before the taxobox code could handle disambiguation.

: The naming of Wikipedia articles favours the singular (see Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(plurals). There are exceptions for classes of things (e.g. Romance languages and personally I would have included higher taxa in this. If the Latin of the taxon name is plural, using plural for vernacular name makes sense to me, and I think verterbates sounds more natural that vertebrate. But that's not the consensus view on Wikipedia. There is a specific exception for "irregular plurals whose usage far exceeds the usage of the singular", e.g.Bacteria and Algae, which implies most other articles on taxa should use the singular.  —  Jts1882 | talk  12:07, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

::{{ping|Jako96}}, I don't think we should really be using the name parameter in ANY articles (it is only used in 5,389 of 86,486 Automatic taxoboxes).

::{{ping|Jts1882}}, I guess vertebrates does sound a little more natural, but I don't think the guidance should be to always use plural forms for higher taxa; it should be considered case by case. To me the plural seem more natural for something that the general public knows to be quite diverse (like vertebrates). "Giraffes" doesn't sound very natural, unless referring to multiple individuals. "Lavenders" doesn't sound very natural in any context.

::The example in the Taxobox documentation is "marine hatchetfishes", and I'm not sure that is right. "Fishes" is fairly obscure plural form (except maybe to ichthyologists), and I'm not sure if fishes should be understood to be "different species of fish" or "different kinds of fish"; if it's the latter, are marine hatchetfish(es) more than one kind?

::Then there are all the articles on animal families where -id is assumed to be a COMMONNAME (e.g. Icterid). The most recognizable -id family is surely hominid, and that article uses {{para|name}} to give MSW as a reference for Hominidae.

::I'll be more restrained in removing plurals from {{para|name}}, but overall most instances of {{para|name}} are useless if not harmful (i.e. breaking italic titling with manual taxoboxes). Plantdrew (talk) 01:11, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::: It's a bit if a mess. I agree that a case by case treatment would be better, but should result in moving the article rather than using the name parameter. The name parameter shouldn't be used because the article is poorly named.

::: Icterid is a terrible name for the article. It's not the WP:COMMONNAME, it's just a vernacular name for the family, which is known as blackbirds or New World blackbirds depending on location. No one in the real world talks about icterids.

::: Fish and fishes is a convention used in Fishes of the World. Multiple individuals of the same species are fish, multiple individuals from several species are fishes (see FotW5 Introduction, p7).

::: I think the name parameter should be used so the taxobox displays the taxon name. It's an infobox on the taxon and name parameter can be used there when the article title is the common name (it could also be automatic). There is no need to repeat the common name of the article title there.  —  Jts1882 | talk  07:06, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't see a need to repeat the article title (whether common or scientific name) at the top of an infobox at all. It seems to me it is just something Wikipedia does with most infoboxes without really thinking about it. Ships (e.g. Titanic) are so far the only infoboxes I've found that don't necessarily display the article title at the top of the infobox. But not repeating the title at the top of an infobox isn't a change I expect to see.

::::I hadn't thought about using name parameter to display scientific name when the article title was a vernacular name. I guess that is a potential use case. 21:57, 13 May 2025 (UTC) Plantdrew (talk) 21:57, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

I noticed that sometimes you change some templates from uppercase to lowercase (such as {{tl|Short description}} to {{tl|short description}}), while other times you change lowercase to uppercase (such as {{tl|taxonbar}} to {{tl|Taxonbar}}). Is there a reason for this that I should be aware of? — Snoteleks (talk) 23:59, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Snoteleks}}, I don't think I've been changing anything to lowercase (except for the second word of {{tl|Automatic Taxobox}}, which is a redirect). I like to see the templates that appear at the top (Short description, Taxobox) and bottom (Reflist, Taxonbar) of every organism article consistently capitalized within an article, and I don't really come across articles where they are all consistently lowercase. But it isn't something that really matters. Plantdrew (talk) 00:39, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

See the Tropicos entry at {{Q|1055143}} and the links from it. I can't recall previously seeing duplications in Tropicos due to orthographic variants. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:36, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:I've set the Tropicos record with the one r spelling to have Name Kind as Orthographic Variant.

:Tropicos handles orthographic variants three ways, which I'm listing in the order they developed:

:1. No separate record, correct spelling has orth vars listed under Annotations

:2. Separate records for orth vars, status noted in Nomenclature Reason

:3. Separate records, Name Kind is Orthographic Variant

:I think #3 was implemented in 2022, and only 377 records use that option

:Tropicos has had a lot of features added over the years, and the documentation hasn't really been updated since 2010. Like Wikipedia, there isn't much top down management. Nobody is tasked with adding newly published names, users add them as they have a need for Tropicos to include them. Nobody is tasked with ensuring that orthographic variants use Name Kind. Nobody is tasked with updating "caffra" epithets. Plantdrew (talk) 19:55, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for the barnstar. I hope we can get something worked out soon to resolve displaying eukaryotes in protist articles and animal/fungi/plant articles. I was away from the internet for a few days and dropped a ball that I'd hoped would get picked up by other editors while I was away. Plantdrew (talk) 02:35, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

::I think I could give it a try, but I'm a bit confused on whether the main strategy should be making /displayed templates for protists or /skip templates for the other three groups. — Snoteleks (talk) 10:41, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

I've noticed an increase in editors writing things like "under the family X" or "under the genus Y" where I would write "in" instead of "under". I had wondered if this is an American usage, but I see that you have changed some to "in". Peter coxhead (talk) 15:37, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

:There were several new articles that showed up yesterday that were generated with this script: User:Element10101/autotaxon, which uses "under". I don't think "under" is matter of English variety. I think it is a matter of people who don't have a taxonomy background thinking of taxonomy as being something like a filing system, which is a context where "under" might be more appropriate.

:At a bookstore: "you'll find Terry Pratchett's Night Watch novels under fantasy, not mystery" (and perhaps there are large overhead signs for genres at the end of the aisles, so the books are literally "under" something).

:Another route to "under" might be translation from German. :de:Eintagsfliegen has "unter den Fluginsekten". Although Google Translate turns that "unter" into "within". Plantdrew (talk) 18:41, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks for the prompt reply. I've been reluctant to change "under" in case it was an ENGVAR issue, but I will in future. (The route from German sounds plausible, too.) Peter coxhead (talk) 20:35, 26 May 2025 (UTC)