Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 August 14#Template:CS Otopeni squad

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=August 14=

== [[Template:Black Pink]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:54, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|Black Pink}}

Way too soon for a navbox. This girl group just debuted and they don't have enough articles yet. The album article is currently a redirect. Random86 (talk) 22:12, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete, only navigates one article. Frietjes (talk) 14:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Delete, not enough links to provide navigation. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:10, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Delete. Nothing to navigate, they've released one single and none of the members are individually notable. Fences&Windows 17:21, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:Catholic mysticism]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:34, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|Catholic mysticism|type=merge}}
{{Tfd links|Christian mysticism|type=merge}}

Propose merging Template:Catholic mysticism with Template:Christian mysticism.

Since User:Jujutsuan failed to gain WP:CON to rename Template:Christian mysticism in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Christian_mysticism&diff=729613878&oldid=729381563 this discussion], he chose create Template:Catholic mysticism as a duplicate of it instead (see WP:FORK). While he has added some new Catholic-related links to the (already long) Christian Template, the template itself is added to the bottom/top of some pages that already have the first template. It just makes no sense to have two template on the same pages with most link duplicated in both. One obvious fix would be to only keep the currently duplicated links in just one template or the other, Jujutsuan objects to this as unnecessary. Jujutsuan has (so far) mostly added the Template:Catholic mysticism template to pages (that he thinks are) about mysticism literature, but has never given a reason to have the two similar templates. tahc ^chat 16:16, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

:The reason is WP:SUBPOV. This was actually {{U|Chicbyaccident}}'s idea, not mine. The original version of this, which was quickly redirected to {{tl|Christian mysticism}} to let the RM finish, was deleted to make way for the un-userfying of the current version, but you can check out its talk page and the RM to see that it's true. I'd say I added a lot of new links, to plenty of people as well as literature. I don't just think they're relevant, they were all (or virtually all) in categories that indicated their relevance. I mean, we could merge Christian mysticism into Catholic mysticism, but then the template would be undeniably Catholic-oriented. (Tell me, are any of the links in the Catholic one not about Catholicism?) So here's the choice, Tahc: change the name to "Catholic mysticism" and merge, or have two separate templates, one as an overview, one more comprehensive about the Catholic SUBPOV. Jujutsuan (Please notify with {{re}} talk | contribs) 17:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Either merge into the Christian mysticism template or, better, change the Catholic template to a footer. Side and footer templates are used on the same page, even if they contain duplicate listings, so to differentiate the two that would be one solution. As said, if not a footer, merge into Christian mysticism (maybe some of the literature should be in both templates as well). Randy Kryn 13:06, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 20:33, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

reformat Template:Catholic mysticism as a footer template, as suggested by Randy Kryn. Frietjes (talk) 18:26, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Merge Template:Catholic mysticism into Template:Christian mysticism. They are the same thing for the first 1,000 years of church history anyway (when East and West split) and, as far as Protestants are concerned, the same thing for the first 1,500 years, so there is a huge overlap. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:58, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:WikiProject Democratic Republic of the Congo]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:11, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|WikiProject Democratic Republic of the Congo}}

Deprecated and unused. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 16:22, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete, don't need it. Frietjes (talk) 23:33, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:UK trademark]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2016 August 27. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:00, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:§§]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:57, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|§§}}

Complex external links template, supporting eleven jurisdictions, but with only three transclusions in all. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:02, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete per nom. way too complicated for just three articles. Frietjes (talk) 16:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Question how many articles would need to link to it in order for it to be retained? --Bermicourt (talk) 20:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Bermicourt, what is the point of {{§§|URL|2=http://www.buzer.de/gesetz/7831/l.htm|3=Synopse der Änderungen und Texte der EnEV 2007, 2009 und 2013}} when you can just write [http://www.buzer.de/gesetz/7831/l.htm Synopse der Änderungen und Texte der EnEV 2007, 2009 und 2013]? the problem here is that if this template were only used for linking to pages at bundesrecht.juris.de, the code would be one line, and far more useful. Frietjes (talk) 17:39, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
For example, the links in Kreditwesengesetz would be much less complicated without this template. Frietjes (talk) 17:44, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
The template links to the laws of 11 countries or states and I created it in anticipation of it being used on many of their articles (as on de.wiki). The original reason given for deletion was a lack of links. That problem is easily fixable, but I don't want to waste time fixing that unless there is a consensus against deletion. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:15, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Bermicourt, the links in Kreditwesengesetz would be much less complicated without this template, so deploying it in that manner would be a bad idea. a better idea would be to create one just for bundesrecht.juris.de. Frietjes (talk) 18:19, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
someone should look at Template:German law section as well. the documentation is not particularly helpful if you don't speak German. Frietjes (talk) 18:22, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Well spotted, it looks like much the same thing only no-one's translated the text. I'd be happy to do it provided it's not also put up for deletion. Just don't like wasting my time on nugatory work. ☺ --Bermicourt (talk) 18:29, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Now up for deletion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:40, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Delete it isn't really plausible that someone is going to remember all the parameter quirkiness for several different national jurisdictions – almost all lawyers, legal scholars, and law students (the most likely people to be using such a template) are specialists, not generalists in the legal codes of a swath of countries. It could conceivably be the case that someone will have a paper source on hand providing the details needed to fill in the template, but it would take less time, probably, to find it online and provide the URL than it would to read the template documentation. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 17:04, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:FC Baden squad]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|FC Baden squad}}

Current squad is outdated, the last modification was in July 2012. The club plays in Swiss third tier nowadays and has very few notable players. No transclusions. Kq-hit (talk) 13:55, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete, no enough working links. Frietjes (talk) 15:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

== [[Template:UD Salamanca squad]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|UD Salamanca squad}}

Club dissolved in 2013 Kq-hit (talk) 13:26, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete, defunct. Frietjes (talk) 15:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:CS Otopeni squad]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|CS Otopeni squad}}

Club dissolved in 2013 Kq-hit (talk) 13:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete, defunct. Frietjes (talk) 15:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:Latest preview software release/Internet Explorer]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:08, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|Latest preview software release/Internet Explorer}}

Empty template. Will never be used again. (For the original purpose, please see {{section link|Template:Infobox software/doc|Moving release data outside the article}}.) Codename Lisa (talk) 06:36, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete, not needed. Frietjes (talk) 15:52, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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== [[Template:WikiProject Arkansas]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2016 August 31. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|WikiProject Arkansas}}

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== [[Template:Secular cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach]] ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus to delete. But, there is consensus to fix the redundancy by either (a) having multiple non-overlapping templates or (b) merging everything into one navbox. Please feel free to continue the discussion at Template talk:Johann Sebastian Bach, or renominate this template, or renominate this template for merging with other templates. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:29, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

{{Tfd links|Secular cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach}}

Redundant fork of {{Tl|Bach cantatas}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Keep — logical subset of Bach's cantatas, see List of secular cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:13, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
Comment: when the template was created it was not a subset of Bach cantatas, but the cantatas listed in the template for discussion were removed from the traditional template. I reverted that because I believe all cantatas should be in one template. NOW it is a subset. I don't think it's necessary, but also not harmful when shown in addition to the other. It has (more than the other) a lot of German titles, which I don't think will help the average reader. Nice, but not needed, sorry. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:03, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
If you don't have problem with "shown in addition" why did you remove them from {{hlist|

|BWV 36a

|36b

|36c

|66a

|134a

|210

|210a

}}

::instead of just re-adding the general template?

::The rest of the reasoning (and in fact also the nomination) is undiluted WP:IDONTLIKE. --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:25, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

:::Please do not attempt to speak for me. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:13, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

::::Bach's secular cantatas form a meaningful set, see List of secular cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach and :Category:Secular cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach. Your argumentation reads: "redundant fork ...", then see WP:NOTDUP: "It is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template which all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary, not inappropriately duplicative. Furthermore, arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and should be avoided. etc."

::::So I stand with my assessment of the arguments in favour of deletion that were brought to this discussion: WP:ATA/WP:ATADP, in particular WP:IDONTLIKE. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:17, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

:::::Being a forked navbox, the navbox under discussion is redundant to the navbox from which it was forked; not to a category, and not to a list. Your overly verbose, hectoring responses and attempt to paint my logically-reasoned argument for deletion as a matter of mere personal distaste are facile, if not transparently dishonest. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:10, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

::::::A navbox with all cantatas by number, without context or even names, is entirely unpractical for navigating the secular variant subset. A navbox that accomplishes that is not "redundant". --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:10, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 01:49, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

delete as redundant. if it's useful to split the list, then split the list in the main template, or split the main template. however, this is clearly redundant navigation. Frietjes (talk) 23:36, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Comment – following the suggestion in the previous !vote, the template has been [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Bach_cantatas&diff=prev&oldid=734713614 split] (see also discussion on the talk page of that template). No cantata article is in both templates any more, so redundancy has been reduced to zero, meaning that this discussion can be closed without further action. Can someone do so, we don't need the "at TfD" message lingering on all the secular cantata articles. --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:59, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
Your edit there has - rightly - been reverted. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:22, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
Re. "- rightly -"... which brings us straight back to WP:IDONTLIKE, all that is left of the reasons opposing that split. For me, {{tl|Secular cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach}} is viable, whatever happens to {{tl|Bach cantatas}}, which never has provided adequate navigation for Bach's secular cantatas (and probably will not do so in the foreseeable future). It is a navbox with some 250 numbers, meaningless to an average reader. Which ones of these numbers represent secular cantatas? Nobody can tell, so, whether that template contains the numbers of the secular cantatas or not, a navbox that does the navigation of the secular cantatas of Johann Sebastian Bach in a more suitable way has a right to existence. --Francis Schonken (talk) 03:40, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Your overly verbose, hectoring responses and attempt to paint my logically-reasoned argument for deletion as a matter of mere personal distaste remain facile, if not transparently dishonest. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk%3ABach_cantatas&type=revision&diff=732505894&oldid=732483043 This] was extremely facile: "Oppose per Gerda" is the only text you contributed to the talk page that discussed the split. Gerda's reasoning was a verbose WP:IDONTLIKE, to which you subscribed. That's all there is to say about your opposition to the split. --Francis Schonken (talk) 18:59, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Speedy delete as redundant per WP:CSD#T3. We don't need multiple navboxes to link the same articles. If further clarity or separation is required, this should be dealt with at {{Tl|Bach cantatas}}, although this is probably unnecessary as anyone specifically looking for the secular cantatas will find a list article linked anyway. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:47, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Comment. It seems a few other recently created templates should probably be deleted under the same rationale. Couldn't all his compositions be merged into a single template {{tl|Works by Johann Sebastian Bach}}? I don't think this would be too large. See {{tl|Bach's short vocal works and mixed collections}}, {{tl|Church cantatas, motets and oratorios by BWV number}}, {{tl|Organ compositions and contrapuntal works by Johann Sebastian Bach}}, {{tl|Masses and Magnificats by Johann Sebastian Bach}}, {{tl|Bach's church cantatas up to first cycle}}, {{tl|Bach's third cantata cycle and later}}, {{tl|Chorale cantata cycle}}. --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:37, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
That had been my first approach, this is what it would look like:

{{Navbox musical artist|

| state =

| listclass = hlist

| background = group_or_band

| title = Compositions by Johann Sebastian Bach

| group1 = cantatas

| list1 = {{Navbox|subgroup

| group1 = church
cantatas

| list1 =

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
30a
31
32
33
34
34a
35
36
36a
36b
36c
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
66a
67
68
69
69a
70
70a
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
80a
80b
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
118b
119
120
120a
120b
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
134a
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
147a
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
173a
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
186a
187
188
189
190
190a
191
192
193
193a
194
195
196
197
197a
198
199
200
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
244a

| group2 = secular

| list2 =

}}

| group2 = other vocal

| list2 =

motets: BWV 225 226 227 228 223 230
in Latin: Mass in B minor, Magnificat
passions: St Matthew, St John, St Luke, St Mark
oratorios: Christmas, Easter
chorale harmonisations
songs and arias: "Komm, süßer Tod, komm selge Ruh", "Bist du bei mir", "Alles mit Gott und nichts ohn' ihn"
Quodlibet
Tilge, Höchster, meine Sünden (after Pergolesi)

| group3 = keyboard

| list3 ={{Navbox|subgroup

| group1 = fugal
works

| list1 =

BWV 131a in g
BWV 578 in g
With prelude: BWV 532 in D, 543 in a, 552 in E{{flat}} (St. Anne), Eight Short Preludes and Fugues, Prelude, Fugue and Allegro
With fantasia: BWV 537 in c, 542 in g, 562 in c
With toccata: BWV 538 in d (Dorian), 540 in F, Toccata, Adagio and Fugue, 565 in d, 566 in E (or C)
With passacaglia: BWV 582 in c

| group2 = other

| list2 =

Organ: Orgelbüchlein, Schübler Chorales, Eighteen Chorale Preludes, Clavier-Übung III, Canonic Variations on "Vom Himmel hoch da komm' ich her", Neumeister Chorales, Wo Gott der Herr nicht bei uns hält
Harpsichord: Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach, Klavierbüchlein für Wilhelm Friedemann Bach, Inventions and Sinfonias, English Suites, French Suites, Partitas for keyboard (No. 4, No. 6), Overture in the French style, The Well-Tempered Clavier (I No. 1, II No.12), Six Little Preludes, Italian Concerto, Goldberg Variations, Aria variata alla maniera italiana, Capriccio on the departure of a beloved brother

}}

| group4 = other solo

| list4 =

Lute: Suite in g, Suite in e, Prelude, Fugue and Allegro in E{{flat}}, Prelude in c, Fugue in g
Sonatas and partitas for solo violin (Partitas No. 1, No.2, No. 3)
Cello Suites
Partita for flute

| group5 = more
players

| list5 =

sonatas for flute and continuo: in b, in E{{flat}}, in A, in C, in e, in E
Sonata for two flutes and continuo
Violin concertos: in A, in E, Double Concerto
Brandenburg Concertos
Keyboard concertos
Orchestral suites
The Musical Offering
The Art of Fugue

| group6 = recordings

| list6 =

| group7 = other lists

| list7 =

}}

::(note: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Johann_Sebastian_Bach/sandbox&oldid=638159300 2014 version] – I think that in the mean while there was a substantial growth of articles on compositions by Bach). The idea was soundly rejected at the time. Quoting from the rejection reasons: "I still think that any "navigation" template with more than ~30 entries fails to serve as a navigational tool; I count >300 in the proposed template. Bach's compositions ought to be covered in several navigation boxes, organised by category." For composers like Bach (or Beethoven etc.) all compositions in one box is not feasible (if the 2014 consensus on several composers still stands). My attempt to break down Bach's "cantatas" navbox in 4 subboxes (each 40 to 80 links) still follows from what I learnt in that discussion in 2014. I understand that some editors still think that navigation by the (for cantatas meaningless) BWV numbers should be possible for all cantatas: that can only be realised by combining 2 navboxes on every cantata article page: the general one + one of the subtemplates. Alternatively I'd discuss the 250-link "general" cantata navbox at TfD, and see whether it is an option to do away with that general template with the "meaningless" numbering sequence, in favour of the four navboxes which allow "meaningful" navigation (in which case any cantata article would have only one of those four boxes). --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:14, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

:::That looks like a perfectly reasonable navbox to me, and by no means one of the largest that we currently have... --11:21, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

::::Here's the twist: we can't start deleting "break-down" templates, developed according to the outcome of the discussion at Template talk:Johann Sebastian Bach#Update before we know consensus has changed ({{tl|Beethoven templates}}, {{tl|Haydn templates}} and {{tl|Mozart templates}} show it apparently hasn't). --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

::::Gave the mega-navbox idea a fresh try:

{{Navbox with columns

| name = Vocal music by Johann Sebastian Bach

| title = Vocal music by Johann Sebastian Bach

| colwidth =

| colstyle =

| fullwidth = on

| col1width = 79.75%

| col1 = {{Navbox|subgroup

| grouppadding = 0em 1em;

| group1 = Cantatas

| list1 = {{Navbox|subgroup

| grouppadding = 0em 1em;

| group1 = Sacred

| list1 = {{Navbox|subgroup

| grouppadding = 0em 1em;

| group2 = Before
Leipzig

| list2 = {{flatlist|

Early: BWV 4
71
106
131
143
150
196
Weimar: BWV 61
70
132
174a
63
152
155
23
54
80a
182
31
12
172
165
21
185
199
161
162
163
Köthen: BWV Anh. 5}}

| group3 = 1st cycle

| list3 = {{flatlist|

BWV 75
76
24
167
147
186
136
105
46
179
69a
77
25
138
95
148
48
109
89
60
90
70
40
64
190
153
65
154
73
81
83
144
18
22
66
134
67
104
166
86
37
44
59
184
194}}

| group4 = 2nd cycle
(chorale
cantatas)

| list4 = {{flatlist|

BWV 20
2
7
135
10
93
107
178
94
101
113
33
78
99
8
130
114
96
5
180
38
115
139
26
116
62
91
121
133
122
41
123
124
3
111
92
125
126
127
1
6
42
85
103
108
87
128
183
74
68
175
176}}

| group5= 3rd cycle

| list5 = {{flatlist|

BWV 39
88
170
187
45
168
102
35
164
17
19
27
47
169
56
79
49
98
55
52
110
57
151
28
16
58
32
13
72
82
84
146
43
34
173}}

| group6= 4th cycle

| list6 = {{flatlist|

| group7 = Other

| list7 = {{flatlist|

Liturgical year: BWV 80
137
58
129
112
140
177
9
14
36
191
51}}

{{flatlist|

Other occasions: BWV 30
193
Anh. 3
29
120
69
34a
195
120a
197
190a
120b
157
244a}}

{{flatlist|

Unknown and doubtful: BWV 117
192
100
97
158
200
1083
50
53
142
189
217
220
221}}

}}

| group2 = Secular

| list2 = {{flatlist|

}}

| group2 = Motets

| list2 = {{flatlist|

| group3 = Latin

| list3 = {{flatlist|

Mass in B minor (early version – structure)
Magnificat (early version)}}

| group4 = Passions

| list4 = {{flatlist|

| group5 = Oratorios

| list5 = {{flatlist|

| group6 = Short

| list6 = {{flatlist|

Four-part chorales, BWV 250–438
Songs and arias, BWV 439–523 (includes BWV 478 and 508)
Quodlibet
BWV 1127}}

| group7 = Recordings

| list7 = {{flatlist|

}}

| col2width = 20.25%

| col2 = {{Navbox with columns

| colwidth =

| col1header = By BWV

| col1 =

~~141~~

~~160~~

~~218~~

~~219~~

~~222~~

232^I

|below = {{flatlist|

}}

::::(vocal works only, a similar one could be developed for Bach's instrumental music) --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

::::Here's the instrumental music one:

{{Organ compositions and contrapuntal works by Johann Sebastian Bach/sandbox}}

::::--Francis Schonken (talk) 16:39, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Comment – proposing to continue this conversation at Template talk:Johann Sebastian Bach#Subgroups 2016. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:31, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).